Is it gone?

krilcov@gmail.com

What happened to the Empire cabal is that noone likes to be ganged all day long. I had a character recently, and the only time I was ever killed was with a gang of three, and one time was a gang of four. I had alot of kills, and I had the elite kind of rp of an imperial, but getting ganged by everyone is rather pathetic. Then, having them take everything from me over and over when i died the three times just wasn't worth it.

It got boring, tiresome, and just not fun. Villagers running around ganging you, when they do nothing but the same basic maneuvers over and over. Same with outlanders. Sheesh, maybe there'd be alot more imperials if the whole world didn't gang them down. I like the cabal, but constantly getting hit over and over with groups is just not fun. There are alot of things in the game that aren't fun when in that cabal.

That is from my own experiences.

ALSO, the elites were never on. NOONE WAS EVER ON. I was around, and baxa was around, but i guess he's done the same, because he's never around anymore either. I was sudri, so I'm sure I had alot of enemies, because I was an annoying, elitist prick. Baxa was the only person ever on, and that wasn't very often. I think he deleted pretty quickly.

The empire cabal needs a make over, because just like last night on the game. I'm on and empress wakes up. OUT OF THE WOODWORK you see traphe (whom I've never met with my current character, and my character is very old) you have DOLCE ( who I've barely seen, and is only around with Empress) The elites are a joke. They're never on. It got old being the only Imperial in the group, and I was nothing more than a blade. I want to join Empire, but when you face odds all day long like that, it's just not fun.

Now, I'm in a new cabal, but i miss the fun of the Empire.

I didn't like Dolce that much, he was kinda a #### when I killed him, but say what you want, he was one of the few that was, in fact, around and kicking when the lich wasn't. I think you're extrapolating 24/7 from your less than 24/7 experience, and making some serious mistakes in the process.

As for the "villagers running around ganging you" crap. Obvious flame and not to be dignified with a response.

You really have no clue what you're talking about, so i'll not jump on you that hard. Dorsh was around, but he was younger than I was. You know absolutely nothing. When I was around, you were doing nothing but level sitting for your 300 hours, and doing what other villagers do and just sit at that rank. Perfecting assassination, or whatever you call it, you were there, and I got tired of being ganged down by villagers, outlanders, marans, or whoever. I deleted at level 27 i think. I leveled up by myself so i had perfected skills. SO, your assumptions are based on crap, because you know nothing of what you speak. Dorsh did nothing but power level once he specialized. That was until he died at level 38 today, and I was told he deleted his character.

So, your assumptions are noted, but not cared for. You know nothing of what you say. Go back to your villager, or any other of them, and cuss me as an imperial with your stellar role playing. Thirst, and just do the same move over and over which is all I ever see from any of you.

Thirst, bash bash bash bash bash.
Thirst, cranial, cranial, cranial.

These are what I've seen, so no assumptions needed. I'd actually like to make another Imperial, and actually thinking of what to make kind of makes it interesting.

But, you, level sitter will just continue to be the villager who get death blow, thirst, resistance and whatever else and when you kill someone you actually have the nerve to say it's even skill.

i'm tired of typing. You're obviously a moron.

But you also need the playing to win article:

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

Especially this paragraph:


Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is another great way to get called cheap. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can't counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn't I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. The game knows no rules of "honor" or of "cheapness." The game only knows winning and losing.

>But you also need the playing to win article:
>
>http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html
>
>Especially this paragraph:

I think this article is very insightful and quite applicable to cf in some ways, but I think to a larger extent CF is not the sort of game for which Sirlin's approach makes sense. For one thing, CF violates his fundamental assumption that you necessarily know who the winner is. In CF there is no clear winner and loser on a character-by-character basis. You can't even begin to apply Sirlin's principles without first defining what constitutes winning and what constitutes losing and what a successful "round" of cf is.

Because what you wrote was either irrelevant or entirely wrong. And it's hard to be so completely, 100% wrong, so I think you were either high when you read what I wrote and wrote your response, or simply didn't read it at all and decided to rant. So I'll clear up a few things that I hope will be helpful to you.

First, it seems you entirely ignored the main reason of the post, which was to say that Dolce was/is around plenty without the lich being on. That being the real point of the thread, how empire does or does not work with or without the lich as empress. You said Dolce's only online when the lich is, I corrected you (from personal experience over almost 600 hours of gameplay) and it doesn't seem like you take issue with that. So, ok, good, I'm glad we can at least agree with that, and as I said, I wasn't a big fan of Dolce's behavior toward me, but he was online alone or with little (no lich) back up, so I give him credit for that.

>You really have no clue what you're talking about, so i'll
>not jump on you that hard. Dorsh was around, but he was
>younger than I was. You know absolutely nothing. When I was
>around, you were doing nothing but level sitting for your 300
>hours, and doing what other villagers do and just sit at that
>rank. Perfecting assassination, or whatever you call it, you
>were there, and I got tired of being ganged down by villagers,
>outlanders, marans, or whoever. I deleted at level 27 i
>think. I leveled up by myself so i had perfected skills. SO,
>your assumptions are based on crap, because you know nothing
>of what you speak. Dorsh did nothing but power level once he
>specialized. That was until he died at level 38 today, and I
>was told he deleted his character.
>

I have no idea who Dorsh is or why you're mentioning him (did he kill you a lot perhaps?) and you don't really say anything clearly in your rambling here, but you do make a few comments that I think I can parse and correct. You say I was level sitting for 300 hours and doing what other villagers do and just sit at that rank. Well, a few things there. First, I was at 35-40 for a long while, but that's five levels, and as I've said before, I had more people in pk there than at any other time, and most of my enemies were higher in level, and had all their class abilities. So, not sure what your point is here. Second, I was one of only two assassins (or just one, for the bulk of the time) in the village, so I'm not sure how you can suggest that what I did is the same as what other villagers do. Most of them were warriors. And most take time in the 30s to perfect later spec skills, then again at 40 and 41 for 2nd spec skills. And, of course, most of them have their level 47 necros or air/offense shifters to pick on them almost at will. Third, you say you were ganged down by villagers. I'd like to seem some logs of that. Or pbf stats. I know I didn't gang you, and I don't even know who you are. Fourth, you say you deleted at level 27. Making you entirely unable to comment personally on how imperial politics really works. Fifth and finally, you say that as a result of you having leveled up yourself and deleting at lvl 27, I am somehow lacking in information to comment on anything. Except nobody was talking about you, we were talking about Dolce, and talking about Village ganging, which you flamed, but have zero evidence of or even coherent speech.

>So, your assumptions are noted, but not cared for. You know
>nothing of what you say. Go back to your villager, or any
>other of them, and cuss me as an imperial with your stellar
>role playing. Thirst, and just do the same move over and over
>which is all I ever see from any of you.
>

Again, you're really not making sense. I made no assumptions. I stated facts. First, Dolce's around without Ahtielli. Second, your comment on being ganged by villagers was just a flame. You've done nothing to alter the veracity of those facts. You do, however, undermine your own credibility by suggesting that I "thirst" and do the same move over and over. Susubienko was a scout. I didn't have the ability to thirst.

If, however, you are (inartfully) trying to generalize to all villagers, despite starting out with the personal comment directed to me alone, then ok, a berserker mace spec can thirst and cranial. So what? Why shouldn't that berserker.

Also, let me take a moment to point out that bloodthirst is a level 35 ability. You deleted at level 27. I suspect you faced few if any ragers who could even thirst at all, berserker or not.

>Thirst, bash bash bash bash bash.
>Thirst, cranial, cranial, cranial.
>
>These are what I've seen, so no assumptions needed. I'd
>actually like to make another Imperial, and actually thinking
>of what to make kind of makes it interesting.
>
>But, you, level sitter will just continue to be the villager
>who get death blow, thirst, resistance and whatever else and
>when you kill someone you actually have the nerve to say it's
>even skill.
>

Please keep in mind that while I spent a long time in the high 30s and low 40s, I did hero, and spent over 100 hours there, which again, I suspect is longer than your entire character's life. And while I was in those levels I did something that only one other villager has ever done, perfect assassinate. (To my knowledge, if there's another who has, please, correct me on that.) As Daevryn and others have commented, there's nothing inherently wrong with playing at whatever level you want, and if you become too much a threat, you distend, which I did. And, again, I didn't have death blow. I didn't have thirst. And I killed 63 people with assassinate. Maybe you don't think there's skill involved there. I disagree. And as someone who has played several berserkers and scouts before this, if you don't think there's skill involved in killing and even more, not dying, then you're woefully mistaken. I suggest you try it out one day and see for yourself. Until then though, it is you who makes assumptions, not I.

>i'm tired of typing. You're obviously a moron.

If you say so. But not as shown by you and your incoherent ramblings. I hope this helped.

You need to learn to be more succinct. Maybe correct him in haiku format.

I can honestly say I usually read less than half of what you write, Graatch. There is absolutely no need to be such a windbag. You can make your points in a more compact way.

I fear you are wrong
You are just too dumb to see
Go die in a fire

asf

I'm keeping this short and sweet. You dont know jack #### of what you talk about. I had very little, if any interaction with you. You sat at that same level, and for whatever reason you can come up with, that's what you did. I dont care. Did you get that part of my post before you had no life and decided to take every statement and tried to turn it around on me like you actually fought me, or you knew anything about what MY LIFE was like. Did you get that part? "MY LIFE"

You, again, dont know anything of "MY LIFE" You again try and make yourself feel good, and say that you perfected assassinate as a level sitting arial. That's all you did, sit on eastern road, or go in the circle that others do, and assassinate. WOW! Let me give you a high five for that one. Way to go. Way to really try and "toot" your own horn. An arial with 23 int doing an assassination over and over while level sitting.

JUST WOW!

Go ahead and assume more of "MY LIFE"

> An
>arial with 23 int doing an assassination over and over while
>level sitting.

Okay, I'll bite: what's your problem with that?

I'm sure it's based on several assumptions that don't bear out, but I'm curious.

You made 2 claims. Dolce was only online with Ahtielli. Ragers are gangers.

#1 I said was wrong, and have personal experience, and in fact logs, showing it.

#2 Was a pure flame, which you still haven't given any information about. I never claimed to know anything about you. I still don't even know your character name. I only know what you yourself told us, which is that you deleted at level 27, which means by definition most if not all your villager enemies could not have thirsted, even if they wanted and were berserkers, because that's a level 35 power. Also, you accuse me of level sitting, but if that's true, then I was in fact lower level and thus probably aware of whomever your character was. Finally, all you do is make ridiculous and poor personal attacks on my character. You've yet go show anything that makes your original statement, that ragers gang all the time, anything other than an unsupported flame.

I don't know or care about your life. You seem like an incoherent alcoholic on a binge. But when you decide to rant with lies about me and others I was with, then you get the beat down. Which you have.

Finally, as Daevryn pointed out, you don't have a clue how assassinate works, obviously.

Quit while you're behind my friend.

Oh, and maybe use a handle that identifies you and some past characters? Oh wait, I forgot, you're not willing to provide any actual, useful, information.

Wow dude. I had Sudri pegged as Beront's new character. Or Kanye. And that's really not a compliment.

I dont know who those guys are. They asses or something?

That's just what my role play was. Most of my fights were with villagers, so you may be one? I didn't like any of you, at all. I had a pretty good idea for that character, with being an elitist an all, but that got very tiresome.

I can't go into details obviously. Beront = Kostyan and Kjrorh. Kanye = Zuktharg and Zikat (I think).

>I can't go into details obviously. Beront = Kostyan and
>Kjrorh. Kanye = Zuktharg and Zikat (I think).


AH, now I see what you are talking about. I was Dijah in a couple of those logs with Kostyan, and I was the one he ordered to fully loot humbert, when I didn't want to. Now, i see what you're talking about. I didn't mean to come off like that.

I wasn't making the comparison because of looting habits. More your propensity to make threats at the drop of a hat, taunt people for making tactically sound decisions, then conveniently ignore situations where you make those exact same decisions.

The number of people who claim to like playing underdog in farewells
and the number of players who actually DO play when they are underdogs.

Plus, americans are soft and give up quickly, so it leaves only russians who can handle the difficalties of dealing with all other cabals combined. Thus, when said russians roll something other than imperials, so called american underdog-lovers stop showing up or just delete

Comrade.

If you roll Empire right now, you can't fight the toughest character in the game.

So is the underdog the person who wants to fight the toughest characters, or the person who wants the emptiest cabal? If you pick the first choice you can't play Empire.

>If you roll Empire right now, you can't fight the toughest
>character in the game.

You can't fight it anyway. You can't kill a lich because it's already dead.
I bet you, immortals, regret that you let this class exist, but you don't see a path to remove it from the game gracefully. Still, I hope you will not allow to create any new lich and hope that the existing ones will delete themselves.
They ruin the gameplay, sorry for spelling it out.

The lich is fine. The problem is all the other imperial players (and I don't care what their nationality is). They should have overthrown the lich long ago, and certainly now. But they don't. The last emperor lich, istendil, was an imm, and he anath'd himself, at least in part I think, consciously or subconsciously, because he saw that players don't really act the way they should but rather play to "win" in their own eyes. And so they'd never overthrow him. This time around the player doesn't care, or may even be doing it deliberately. Either way, the fault lies in the combination of cabal structure depending on people being roleplayed properly, namely being devious backstabing conniving powerseekers, and the players who don't do that because they have their own 100-250 hours of fun planned and it's easier for them to ride the lich train and get their shinies, kill their enemies in a gang or not, and move on to the next character they make.

The lich is fine.

The lich is the problem. Though not the only problem and it's still applicable in other cases (emperors).

The problem is all the other imperial
players (and I don't care what their nationality is). They
should have overthrown the lich long ago, and certainly now.

So called imperial-politics never worked. It's broken by design. A few other things make it even harder now (explained below).

But they don't. The last emperor lich, istendil, was an imm,
and he anath'd himself, at least in part I think, consciously
or subconsciously, because he saw that players don't really
act the way they should but rather play to "win" in their own
eyes.

Or because it was the only way to fix the broken gameplay. Because other way isn't really working.

Either way, the fault lies in the combination of cabal
structure depending on people being roleplayed properly,
namely being devious backstabing conniving powerseekers, and
the players who don't do that because they have their own
100-250 hours of fun planned and it's easier for them to ride
the lich train and get their shinies, kill their enemies in a
gang or not, and move on to the next character they make.

This is actually a problem with the cabal design. While it may sounds fun to do "backstabbing and politics", in reality, it is not fun for players involved. There are number of reasons, I will name a few:
1) it's to easy to lose a char with several hundred of hours invested.
2) Often you have a choice: overthrow the emperor and get 25% chance to gain the position or betray the rest of the council and be the first hand of the emperor with all assorted benefits. Plus, it's not a news that we have numerous permagroups and cheating rings. If you feel that other councilors are like that I don't think you would want to support them (with 0% chance to become the Emperor yourself).
3) players (not chars) prefer to join cabals because they want to have fun with cabal wars and allies. If you backstab somebody, he is not your ally anymore. What is fun to be an imperial warrior if an imperial healer doesn't sanc you? Good or evil cabal, it doesn't matter, you can set any kind of RP ruls, but it's the nature of players that just like to be in society where they can trust each other (to some extent) and work together: explore, rank, raid/defend and have fun. Those who try to play otherwise get disappointed and delete quickly (though, perhaps, they don't truly realize why).
4) When you cabal is greatly outnumbered (like empire now) you sure as hell want each member to be your ally. #### politics. So any sort of conspiracy nowadays even less likely to happen. Again, you can blame players or you can understand them. They play the game for fun, not to fulfil somebody's expectation about the cabal RP. Even if they can't openly argue against it, they will just do it silently
by using sabotage.

Where is the solution? Nowhere.
Actully, I believe, the whole Imperial RP should be redesigned. Allow sects to be very friendly with each other. It is not a balance issue now because Empire doesn't have mages and you will not see ultimate groups like during old days (which actually is the real reason for implemented "tensity" between sects).
Make some sort of automated leadership refresh.
Like voting each month or two weeks among elite members. Old emperor is demoted to a sect leader (if applicable) or an elite or even special veteran position (with voting rights) but don't make him anathema, new Emperor is chosen. Whatever (I don't claim that this idea is polished enough).

In short, I'm right and you are wrong.

Your entire post was that it's a problem with cabal design. no where did you say anything at all to refute my point that it's not the lich, it's the cabal and the other players.

Which means, as usual, I'm right and you're wrong. Thanks for playing though.

You make it sound like part of the reason they aren't having underhanded politics right now is because the cabal is in a slump. When the cabal is full steam ahead killing everyone is even less of a reason to overthrow an emperor. That's when you see groups running 5 to 6 deep steamrolling everything in sight. The cabal status right now is THE reason to overthrow the lich, because the cabal is in the crapper. She's tough as hell but doesn't expect much from anyone else, besides rolling in her gank when she's awake. I've always had a little bit of a problem with the lack of infighting in the empire. I've seen a few instances of it, but it's usually very tame. The power struggles are very few lately. Plus what is the reward of a failed power struggle...
anathema'd. Effectively ruining what you've built up on this character.

What if attempted coups didn't go to anathema, just serious demotion or a special underling type status (slave to the emperor or something)? I think the political structure of empire is slightly broken as well. Not to mention the OP nature of the emperor/lich powers.

>You make it sound like part of the reason they aren't having
>underhanded politics right now is because the cabal is in a
>slump.
Politics nearly never worked.

>The cabal status right now is THE reason to overthrow
>the lich, because the cabal is in the crapper.

Game balance wise you don't want to see a really strong Empire. No one will login. It's been proved more than once.

What makes you think that cabal is in the crapper?
How do you want empire to look a like?


>She's tough as
>hell but doesn't expect much from anyone else, besides rolling
>in her gank when she's awake.

False, everyone who is able to do something on his own gets more rewards from me. Problem is that you don't really can do much with Fortress gang and cry power, high numbers of villagers and random nexus/outlanders ganging you with one of these cabals. I bet you don't belive me, so I suggest you roll imperial without hide abilities, rank up to hero and not delete in 2 months. But something tells me that you will delete or will roll in gangs with lich most of the time.

Honestly, I think they're just afraid. Because the flip side of an attempted coup, if you fail, with a lich emperor, is teh suck. Especially if you're not a hiding class.

>Honestly, I think they're just afraid. Because the flip side
>of an attempted coup, if you fail, with a lich emperor, is teh
>suck. Especially if you're not a hiding class.

I more or less agree with this. The incentives just aren't there for a mortal to put it out on the line like this. Even assuming not a shred of OOC-connection between sect leaders and the emperor (which I don't really think you can assume), the odds are pretty bad for a payout that is pretty uncertain even on success.

If you loose, which is most likely, you DEFINITELY get to be anathema. If you win, which is highly unlikely, you MAYBE get to be emperor.

If change to Empire is going to come, it will have to involve imm intervention (or just enough time that everyone in power gets bored and changes). And the imms have already let the cabal go a LONG time in the crapper without doing anything, so why would someone believe the imms would back them?

Aarn

what makes Empire crapper in your opinion?
What do you want Empire to look a like?
How much people will whine when Empire will be like you want it?

>what makes Empire crapper in your opinion?

Small size. Essentially tied with Fort, Outlander and Tribunal, and a lot smaller than Nexus. Essentially tied for the lowest number of applicants. In the past generally Empire has been big, which is how it deals with being enemies of nearly every other cabal in the game at any given time.

Low activity from the members that are in there. I'm not saying the senior membership is ALWAYS on together, because there are often exceptions. I myself have seen you out fighting and kicking ass alone. But when you announced your disappearance for several days, every senior member disappeared for several days.

Influence = 46%. And not rising. The first two points are really ancillary to this one. If the cabal were small, but still competing with the other cabals, I don't think anyone would complain. Empire, however, is getting trounced, and has been for a long time. This is the part that is bad for the game, and the part that should turn in to IC consequences for the mortal leadership.

>What do you want Empire to look a like?

Doing its part to be competitive. Everyone knows that YOU'RE tough. But your cabal isn't.

>How much people will whine when Empire will be like you want
>it?

People will always whine about something. But on the whole, the game is NOT served by having a really weak cabal. If Nexus is in the gutter, things become less fun for Battle. If Empire is in the gutter, the game becomes less fun for everyone that opposes Empire. (Of course it's often not fun at the opposite extreme either, but I don't think Empire needs to worry about that right now.)

If the current leadership objects to this line of complaint I'm making here, then please, step up and turn the cabal around, get that influence up, and start competing in cabal wars. Unfortunately I think we may be a little past that point, judging by the extremely low number of applicants. The only thing that may spur growth in Empire now is new leadership. But, I'll be happy to eat a little crow if you prove me wrong.

Aarn

>Influence = 46%. And not rising. The first two points are
>really ancillary to this one. If the cabal were small, but
>still competing with the other cabals, I don't think anyone
>would complain. Empire, however, is getting trounced, and has
>been for a long time. This is the part that is bad for the
>game, and the part that should turn in to IC consequences for
>the mortal leadership.

To be fair, the influence numbers only say so much, and for a few reasons they're never especially kind to Empire. Let me know if I need to elaborate on that?

>To be fair, the influence numbers only say so much, and for a
>few reasons they're never especially kind to Empire. Let me
>know if I need to elaborate on that?

I can't say I see why the influence meter wouldn't be particularly kind to Empire, and would welcome some info on the mechanics behind it.

But more importantly, is it your point that Empire IS strong right now? That doesn't seem to mesh with my observations, but I would certainly do my best to re-evaluate if you're confident it's the case... I obviously haven't observed everything!

Or is your point just that we shouldn't rely too far on the influence meter? If that's the case then it doesn't really change the point of what I was writing. I was just using the influence meter as a tool to quantify my own observations regarding Empire, which seems in line with a lot of other people's observations as well.

Aarn

If I'm not mistaken, it's a simple number that tells what % of the current week, starting at midnight on Sundays, the cabal has had its own item.

It's probably not kind to Empire because Fortress, Battle, Scion, and Outlander all should regularly be fighting and raiding Empire.

I remember one post on Dio's or somesuch on a Monday morning showing Scion's influence at 0%, and trying to point out that it meant nothing, since the amount of time being measured at that time was only 8 hours. Come Friday and Saturday, the influence meter shows more accurately how well or poorly a cabal has been able (or willing) to retrieve their item.

>I can't say I see why the influence meter wouldn't be
>particularly kind to Empire, and would welcome some info on
>the mechanics behind it.

My understanding is, it essentially represents how often you have your cabal item. It's hard for Empire to do well in this race for a few reasons:

1) Empire has a lot of enemies.

Think about that for a minute in this sense: let's assume at any moment one cabal is dominating online. That's an oversimplification but I think it helps illustrate the point.

If Fortress is dominating, Fortress will have their item. But they'll also probably have it if Battle or Outlander are dominating, simply because those cabals will tend to raid the cabals that tend to take Fortress' item. Even if no one in Fort is logged on there's a decent chance they'll have it.

Conversely, is Empire's dominating, sure, Empire will have their item. But if any of Battle, Fortress, Outlander, or Scion are really rocking the house, they're probably going to take the Codex.

In other words, to have their item 100% of the time, Empire needs to be strong most of the time.

This is further complicated by

2) Empire tends to time-clump in strength. Both its numbers and its leaders tend to have similar log-in times.

This isn't a vast Russian (or whoever) conspiracy. Emperors and Sect Leaders tend to promote people they see online being cool. The people they see online being cool tend to be the people who play around when they do.

I can think of one or two cases in which an Emperor asked the Empire Imms to demote a Sect Leader they never saw on, only to be told, in essence, well, that guy's pretty awesome and he plays like 10 hours a day -- it's just 10 hours a day opposite from when you log on. So, yeah, the Empire imms get involved there and promote people and mitigate this as they can, but the fact remains that Empire tends to time-clump.

I think of some of the most dominant Empire eras of recent memory, and they might ridiculously overwhelm everyone for let's say 8-10 hours a day, but during the rest of the day they'll tend to be relatively weak.

I'm not sure if there's a good way to fix that, to be honest.

>But more importantly, is it your point that Empire IS strong
>right now?

It's not, although I've seen other times when I would say Empire was strong and the influence meter wasn't much better off.

>Or is your point just that we shouldn't rely too far on the
>influence meter?

Yeah, mostly that -- or at least, to understand the numbers in context.

Course, that was because Mmumma and Kasty had weird playtimes, as well I am known to play at all hours of the day.

And of course Jaguab is a bad ####er who was playing nearly 10 hrs a day.

Where people won't take your cabal item because they know that you'll come for it when you log on. It's quite nice.

Okay, thanks, that makes sense. Although if Empire had the same numbers it seemed like it has usually had in the past, this would be less of an issue.

Anyway, point still stands.

I think I had a pretty good shot at getting rid of Ahlieti. Unfortunately I didn't get the imm involvement I needed in the timeframe I had available. It could be fun to attempt another run at Ahlieti when I have time. Despite all the crap people say about her, she is a damn fine character.

But what they could and should do to recruit experienced people? I dont see anything essential they can do besides what they are doing now. But well, I never was a leader, so I simply could not know.

But my point is that while Empire is weak, its incorrect to blame mostly only Ahtieli for that.

Shocking, yeah I know!

There's been at least one lich emperor in between.

Overthrowing decked to #### and all charged up Dwoggurd for a lich that deleted when Rogue full-looted him?

That seemed to me like the last successful coup that involved active players, and it turned out HORRIBLY. Empire went into a death spiral after that for like 3 months at least.

I don't understand this whole post (or the agreeing with it). People in real life rally around strong leaders. Why should it be any different in CF?

Not everyone has to be gunning for the Emperor position 100% of the time. I personally can see Empire being incredibly lucrative as a sect leader beyond an actual Emperor. If I'm a sect leader with a strong lich emperor and I can get all sorts of nice gear, nice kills, respect from anyone who is underneath me and just have to kiss the lich's bony ass why couldn't I be content with that? Sounds perfectly reasonable for an Imperial to be quite honest.

Not to mention, heavy lies the crown and all that.

But the fact Empire has 27 members, and their influence is BARELY better than Scions when Scion has 7 members really doesn't bode too well for the Empire players showing any sack whatsoever when they don't log on their lowbies, notice Ahtieli is on, then log on their Imperials.

If, empire is lacking severely because people want to fight the Lich....

I'd think to myself "What classes/powers do people pick when they want to fight the lich"..... (Or, If I could actually log on, I'd take a few weeks and watch)....

Then I'd think to myself, "If everyone's playing these things to fight the lich...what can I play that will tear up those chars!"


Hrm....play a char in order to be able to fight the #1 tough guy.....

Or, play a char in order to be able to fight #'s 2-100.

Seems an easy choice to me. I'd rather have a target rich field of view, than a field of view with only 1 rich target...if you ken it.

And I'd daresay your former russian friends aren't as badass as you make them sound, seeing as how half of them are afraid to login in without Ahtieli to hold their hand.

I had a low-level bloodoath for a little while. Of the few other bloodoaths I met, we all asked each other "Hey... have you seen any of the senior Imperials around?" The answer was always no. I got bored and gave up that character pretty quick.

There needs to be some serious change with Empire. The cabal is half the size it used to be, and doesn't seem to be growing. The game is worse-off for it if you ask me.

Aarn

Empire only has a presence when the Empress is on.

That's ####, IMHO. And it says a lot about all the other Empire players.

I blame Twist. Gurgthock sucks He's too busy having sex with animals.

Dude. That's your cue to power rank up and unseat your sect leader. The imms will do it if Empress isn't around.