I set aside some time to think about the decrease in the player base, and ways to draw more people to CF. Has the IMM staff ever considered re-tooling the XP system to reward solo play? I know that in the past XP has been very group oriented, in fact aside from xping solo on an ehren type char, I almost always roam around with 2 others for safety/xp gains. What I propose is the following.

Make the xp gain from killing a mob solo the same as if you had killed it with 3 people in your group.

What this will do:

it will allow the people who want to play, but dislike sitting around waiting for 2 people within group range (who's ideals fit your mold) to group with to xp.

Do I think this will break the group mechanic?

not at all, traveling as a group of 3 will offer the benefit of increased safety and faster kills (so in fact traveling as a group of 3 will still net more xp even though the xp per kill would be the same)

thoughts?

-P

If it could be confined to classes that have a ####ty time solo-ranking anyway (mainly mages). Otherwise it would lead to melee class-central as Zulgh has pointed out.

>Make the xp gain from killing a mob solo the same as if you
>had killed it with 3 people in your group.
>
>What this will do:
>
>it will allow the people who want to play, but dislike sitting
>around waiting for 2 people within group range (who's ideals
>fit your mold) to group with to xp.
>
>Do I think this will break the group mechanic?
>
>not at all, traveling as a group of 3 will offer the benefit
>of increased safety and faster kills (so in fact traveling as
>a group of 3 will still net more xp even though the xp per
>kill would be the same)
>
>thoughts?

I think it most definitely would break the group mechanic. You would see a world full of warriors, assassins, rangers...those who excel at solo, and very few of things that can't.

There are definitely people who, because they can, would take this as an opportunity to just run entirely to hero by themselves with little to no interaction at all with anyone.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

What about making solo killing a mob equal to the exp gain from a group with 2? Not many people go out in a group of 2 as it is. And if you equalized the two it wouldn't destroy the group mechanic, but, it would give some an incentive to solo rank. There would still be an advantage for those who did rank in groups of two because you'd kill the mob faster, etc.

You make it easier to solo rank, more of the classes that can, will. That is not a good thing for the mud.

To an extent yes. However, I believe that if this didn't destroy the group mechanic it would help entice people to stay logged in longer and more (In which case the potential for groups and pk goes up).

If it wasn't handled via xp maybe some other sort of incentive?

Because they're staying logged in to solo rank; they're not interested in grouping.

Splntrd

There are always going to be those that wish to be alone, period. It's not as if you can force them to xp with others one way or another.

There are always going to be those that want to find a group but cannot (more times than not these days, this has to do with availability of potential groupmates than people saying no "because" they want to solo rank).

The joy of solo ranking mostly loses it's charm after levels 25-30 for most classes really. The only one's that come to mind after that point are going to be assassins, paladins and conjurers.

Again, this is a point based on opinion one way or the other, I think it's moot to argue the outcome because frankly... how do we know.

EXB

It just doesn't make any sense that incentives for solo ranking will somehow increase grouping.

Not that I don't agree to some extent with the initial point, I think ranking in general regardless of group size should be easier. But the argument you threw in there to back it up just didn't click for me.

Splntrd

Solo ranking may be less painful, but equally grouping becomes more rewarding.

As a hero, I'm more likely to help a group rank if it requires less of an investment on my part, as well.

The whole point is to make it a bit easier to solo rank without discouraging groups. Ever been stuck at a rank with no one to learn with? It sucks. Solo ranking is a bitch, especially when you get into the 40's. You spend several hours on one rank. In fact, I think the way it is right now discourages solo ranking. I usually say aww #### it. I'm not going to spend all that time, I'll just log out and come back later and hope someone is around.

You'll see someone asking what the best class to solo is on Dio's probably every 3 months.

.

Which was a good thing, IMHO.

Not that there isn't game played before hero and that it can't be interesting but once you have played cf for more than five years the lower levels are kind of bleh. I think the example of how fast people jumped on double xp weekend and how driven they were throughout it is evidence that a large portion of the players would just rather spend less time in the lower/mid ranks.

Obviously making things easier to do takes away some of the inherent value but the battlecry of declining playerbase is a real one and the major impediment to playing cf is the time commitment. It is simply not reasonable to expect casual players to be able to compete.

I am not saying break the group dynamic but maybe a toggle to enhance the speed of ranking. If your argument against the toggle is that everyone and their mom would use it then perhaps it should just be an across the board boost to xp.

Personally I would like to see groups of two get the same bonus as groups of three and singles get the current group of two. Maybe also put xp penalties in their for certain classes through certain ranks, for instance level 1-25 a necromancer in the group might add an extra 4% xp for everyone in the group. This would help classes through rough leveling stretches.

Another option would be to make people rank as fast as humans in terms of xp needed but have a second calculation for pk ranges that assumes you have your racial penalty. This does dilute the advantage of a low xp pen in terms of ranking but would leave the pk side of it still in balance and ultimatly I think that is the more important side of the xp penalty.

In some context you are right. People our age and with our scheduled free-time don't really have time to #### around as lowbies. Which is why for many vets the game does really start at hero (unless you roll certain builds).

However, for many newer players, the real 'game' is at ranks 11-30. And we still have SOME newer players. Less than most periods of CF history, but some.

>Not that there isn't game played before hero and that it
>can't be interesting but once you have played cf for more than
>five years the lower levels are kind of bleh.

I've played for a lot more than five years, and your statement is certainly not true for me.

ouch

What the experience did was spike the number of hero flyto murder shifters, for whom hero is often more appealing than level 20.

This might be a nice poll question. That hasn't been updated in a long time.

For me the problem is that most classes just aren't equal in the lower range. Mages have it A LOT better in the lowbie ranges rhan they used to, but it still isn't equal. When I play a mage class I'm always trying to get to hero. Every other class I'm simply willing to play it out a bit slower. Outside of the leveling factor there is also immteraction. Most immteraction and recognition occurs in the hero range. My belief is that this occurs for a very simple reason. Imms want to reward characters they know are going to be around. Lyristeon has even stated this on several occassions. Most quests, exploration, significant cabal wars and so on are all going to occur at hero.

I can't say I disagree with the thought of lightening the tedium of leveling. It is a lot harder now days to get groups and the xp dynamic really has not changed any over the years, in fact a lot of stuff has been removed/reduced. The lower numbers/grouping opportunities have added a new level of tedium to cf in my opinion. And I do think that needs to to be looked at. So xp boost is yay from me.

Dude, what about Cabdru? That massively multi-killing monstrosity was a great villain. Can you say that the middle levels were the most fun for you for that character?

The reason I find hero to be the best is that all the skills/spells/supps you're going to have are there for you. If you want to stop along the way to spam, great, but when I want to level, I don't want to have to kill 100 mobs just to gain one level.

The enrichment I got out of double-xp weekend was the chance to play a neutral character without deleting by level 25 due to extreme boredom. They're a huge pain in the ass to rank to me. All of a sudden, the game became a helluva lot more fun and I got to try something I normally wouldn't.

It's pretty unlikely he'd have had anywhere near the level of success achieved.

>Dude, what about Cabdru? That massively multi-killing
>monstrosity was a great villain. Can you say that the middle
>levels were the most fun for you for that character?

I would say the low, mid, and high levels for him were all really fun and challenging in different ways. Certainly, in the high levels I had the least number of fights in which I felt the outcome was in doubt. In the midlevels, people actually killed me.

The nice thing about not racing to hero is that when you get tired of what's going on at your level, you can always level. Getting even a few levels changes your range and relative strengths significantly. On the other hand, when you're already hero and you get bored, there's not much to do but delete and roll something else.

Hell is somewhere in New Jersey I've been told.

Or in Beverly Hills.

>>Dude, what about Cabdru? That massively multi-killing
>>monstrosity was a great villain. Can you say that the middle
>>levels were the most fun for you for that character?
>
>I would say the low, mid, and high levels for him were all
>really fun and challenging in different ways. Certainly, in
>the high levels I had the least number of fights in
>which I felt the outcome was in doubt. In the midlevels,
>people actually killed me.

Considering Cabdru's darkened set since level 12(?) I doubt low/middle ranks were challenging

It's possible to play this game at middle ranks and have fun, but still, too many things limited to hero only. Quests, eq, cabal wars (not only retrievals), wide range of skills/spells. Plus you get more consistend people around you, friends or foes. At middle ranks every week the whole range is new faces.

>Considering Cabdru's darkened set since level 12(?) I doubt
>low/middle ranks were challenging

Heh. I blame Graatch.

Definitely there were some solid advantages from having good gear, etc., yet, I still had a lot more close calls (and deaths) low/mid.

>Plus you get more consistend people around you, friends or
>foes. At middle ranks every week the whole range is new
>faces.

That's true, but, in some ways I think that's a plus to the mid levels. You definitely can argue it either way.

Note, I'm not making a case, in general, that the low/mid levels of the game are better than hero levels. My opinion is that they're also fun, and interesting/challenging in different ways than hero is.

It's fun like going to a corporate Christmas party is fun. Sure, you might get a door prize, a few snacks, rub elbows with important people, and talk to some interesting folks that you care nothing for. You gotta make the appearance but the less time there the better.

But we all know the real party is out with friends at the 'place-to-be'.

For me that analogy doesn't hold. YMMV.

Groups bring interaction which imms want to see in game.
Moreover, this interaction is indirectly enforced because you have to group for good exp.
If you make solo exp good, there will be less point to group and thus the "unseen" purpose of grouping will be ruined.

The problem I see is the good/evil and magic/rager pendulum. granted the pendulum swings back and forth, however if you are the "underdog" most of your "interaction" with other players is going to be in the form of receiving a dirt kick/bash/trip . With a small playerbase the underdog has genuinely become "the underdog" and to inspire people not to bandwagon, I think that an adjustment to the mud to make it more solo-friendly (as far as ranking goes) would be a welcome boon.

-P

I think this would hurt classes that can't easily solo level.