Since there's players who have killed more people than I disputing that these are balanced changes rather than bugs, and I'm looking for a more in-depth explanation than 'By Design':

Peck is cancellable and wiped by truesight.

Cranial can now cranial sleeping people provided the wake timer has worn off, making it run completely and utterly counter to why the change was made in the first place. In fact, in most situations, it is now BETTER than it was before the cranial tweak upping the special effects and making it account for headgear when it barely knocked people out at all.

I'm all for having a reason to play mace spec again, but why is the first even possible, and second, why does peck last longer than dirt kick when it already only has one round lag?

Remove "cranial"

Replace with a new skill called "pulverize"

Syntax: pulverize (torso/arm/leg/shoulder/head/knee)

Taking targetable malediction to new heights, the mace specialist can make use of the brute force of his weapon to inflict grievous injuries upon his enemies. In descending order of difficulty to land a successful pulverize, the effects are as follows:

Torso: Drops strength and constitution. If it lands perfectly it can cause internal bleeding as organs are smashed, and ribs can be broken. If the ribs are broken, occasional movement lag will plague the victim for the effect's duration as the pain causes them to gasp and stop in their tracks to cope with it.

Arm: Similar the effects of "boneshatter," a victim who is struck in the arm with this technique has a chance of dropping their weapon from the shock of the impact. Additionally, if a shield gets in the way of the attack, the damage will be greatly reduced, but the victim will most likely be knocked off balance.

Leg: Drops dex. Can cause some damage when walking (think of a much weaker bloody shackles).

Shoulder: If a mace specialist manages to pulverize both the arm and the shoulder of his foe, both effects become magnified as the injury is aggravated. By itself, a successful shoulder pulverization harms STR and has a chance to knock an opponent off balance briefly.

Head: This has the effect of the current "cranial" skill. With one lovely new exception - it has a chance to knock the helmet off of an opponents head, rendering further successful pulverizations more devastating.

Knee: Being a sensitive area that any adventurer knows to defend, a successful shot here has severe consequences. It gives -dex, minor -str, -mv and potential movement lag. Additionally, it will have the effect of slowing the victim's movements briefly (1 hour slow, with 3 hour cool down timer).




I'm sure it's all OP. I've no mind for balancing this stuff right now. That's on you if you like the general concept.

I think this would be a cool skill, especially if it was affected by armor and dent was changed to be targettable. However it should replace both cranial and boneshatter in order not to be overpowered.

That being said, I think mace specs are quite reasonably balanced (yes, cranial can be very hard to fight, but it becomes much worse if you just get a good helmet), and tactically very fun to play with already... So I'd rather see coding efforts put into new cool stuff.

By the way, speaking about bugs, is it intentional that the strange black opal works in norecall areas (such as the village)? I'm not sure how it works, but at least it ceases combat and blinds.

>Cranial can now cranial sleeping people provided the wake
>timer has worn off, making it run completely and utterly
>counter to why the change was made in the first place. In
>fact, in most situations, it is now BETTER than it was before
>the cranial tweak upping the special effects and making it
>account for headgear when it barely knocked people out at
>all.

I don't actually understand what you're getting at here.

Version 1:

Cranial in it's original form was trip lag, could very rarely KO people (and couldn't KO people while they were asleep, AND it worked like blackjack when this happened), very rarely dropped int. Headgear didn't affect it.

Version 2:

Then the headgear tweaks were put in (wearing better headgear reduced lag and your chance to be KO'd), you were far more likely to be using a fancy version of blackjack using it to start combat, people passed out from cranial spam far more often and you still couldn't cranial people while they slept. In this state, being KO'd was something you wanted because very few people could take advantage of you passing out from it. Maybe underhand or impale or pincer, on rare occasions charge. Mostly they were stuck murdering you and watching you flee/quaff. You still could not cranial people who were sleeping even if their KO timer wore off AFAIK.

Version 3:

Now cranial can hit people who are sleeping provided their KO timer has worn off.

Headgear tweaks to lag aside, if you can cranial people who are sleeping now it makes cranial almost as good or better than it was at version one. You simply wait till they pass out, prep as necessary to finish your fight, and then either pincer or cranial to start combat again.

Marcus did this as Djabree is the only reason I bring this up. I watched Tgorb go to sleep in front of him to force Djabree to give up his first attack without lagging, except Djabree cranialed him anyway.

While this becomes less useful in raids, the fact that people pass out and provided you can wait two ticks, looks horribly ripe for unbalanced exploitation in 1v1 situations. In essence, it just became equal or superior to stun because KOing people just became a very nice bonus that you could either exploit to prep, exploit to change weapons freely and get the sleeping damage multiplier, or (and this is the important part) just simply wait it out and cranial them again without typing 'wake'.

So I should be able to drop down and sleep in front of my foe to prevent him from using a specific attack?! WTF? Okay that is simply whacked.

Hey Daevvy if you let me charge with a polearm sleeping peeps no
matter how hurt they are I would be greatly appreciative. Or simply let legsweep whack peeps who are flying without wings.

Cheers,
Unka Arzzra.

Cranial was changed because it would force an opponent into the resting position. This allowed for permalag in that if no one was directly targeting you, the only valid command, excluding bards, would be to stand, and then I would just cranial you again due to the trip lag. And since cranial does adequate damage, I could kill you with just that.

This is why cranial was changed/modified into it's current form*. It has seen a few tweaks to make it a strong skill again and I'm quite content with how it is now.


* I am no imm, this is just my observed best guess.

>Cranial was changed because it would force an opponent into
>the resting position.

I can recall no point at which this was true, but I also was mostly away for a period of ~2 years at one point. Certainly cranial wasn't originally like this.

I don't remember precisely when this was, I'd guess back w/ cranial version one, but it put you into resting position, and gave you trip lag. However, this caused two scenarios.

Version 1)
You were tanking someone or something, and them attacking you took you out of resting position (like missing a bash as the tank...if they land the first attack on you, it hurt, but put you into standing). You'd get exactly one command in like trip.

Version 2)
You were in some sort of group fight, and the person cranialling was targetting someone else. You would be put resting, and then never get attacked, so you'd have to manually stand while fighting. (Like missing a bash while not tanking). The problem is, you'd still take trip lag, so the only command you could get in was "stand", and then you'd immediately be cranial'd again. With the damage cranial can put out, I've seen low-hp chars die just from the cranial alone.

If you didn't stand, you couldn't do anything else....flee, casting, spec skills, etc, you'd be resting. So you were stuck in a nasty catch 22 as far as doing anything in a fight.

This is how cranial could effectively permalag some people.

Never wanted to point it out before in case it was used against me lots before being fixed.

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt a couple of my early shaman - maybe like around 98/99?? - were "permalagged" by cranial.

Che-rist.

n/t

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

It was at some point. Pebble to boulder will also do the same thing.

<254hp 416m 418mv 14754tnl (7.21%)> shapeshift vulture
You prepare your body for the trauma of shifting under these affects.
Kretor is covered with bleeding wounds.

<254hp 406m 418mv 14754tnl (7.21%)>
Kretor dodges your claw.
Kretor dodges your claw.
Kretor dodges your claw.
Kretor's crush misses you.
Kretor's wrath mauls you.
Kretor's crush bounces harmlessly off of your thick hide.
You dodge Kretor's crush.
Kretor delivers a blow of deadly force!
Kretor's crush *** DEMOLISHES *** you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
Kretor is covered with bleeding wounds.

<115hp 406m 418mv 14754tnl (7.21%)> fly

Kretor brings a golden scepter around to hit your head!
Kretor's cranial hit mauls you.
You sure are BLEEDING!
Kretor is covered with bleeding wounds.

<92hp 406m 418mv 14754tnl (7.21%)>
You must be standing to shapeshift. (SEE I AM RESTING, THIS KILLED ME)
Kretor dodges your claw.
Your claw DISMEMBERS Kretor!
Kretor parries your claw.
Kretor's crush maims you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
Kretor's wrath mauls you.
You sure are BLEEDING!
Kretor is gushing blood.

<36hp 406m 418mv 14754tnl (7.21%)> flee

Kretor parries your claw.
Kretor parries your claw.
Your claw DISMEMBERS Kretor!
Kretor's crush decimates you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
Kretor's wrath decimates you!

Just frustrating to know Nepenthe doesn't know what he's talking about.

My faith is shattered

I also would have killed Dullameh who was running around pwning me at that time.

People keep misremembering that it permalags when it was only as likely to permalag as trip was. I.e. you were an idiot and put in a wrong command or the command failed. It never permalagged in it's original incarnation, 2nd incarnation, or now.

I'm more of the opinion cranial was changed because it was TOO GOOD a lagging skill in that only invokers could ever prep against it and mace specs would use this over trip if they could. The damage on it made it worth it.

However I'm asking if the fact that people can be cranialed at all while sleeping is a bug now. Because it seems like, headgear protection aspects aside, why even change it in the first place if you can now viably take mace spec to wake people with a trip-quality lag move plus sleeping-damage bonus? Making it better than even it's first incarnation?

>However I'm asking if the fact that people can be cranialed at
>all while sleeping is a bug now.

Opinions may vary but I'm not really seeing it as one. I'll talk to Team IMP and see what we think.

>Because it seems like,
>headgear protection aspects aside, why even change it in the
>first place if you can now viably take mace spec to wake
>people with a trip-quality lag move plus sleeping-damage
>bonus? Making it better than even it's first incarnation?

Eh, I don't really share that opinion. With a decent helm in play you often won't get trip-quality lag out of cranial now.

Eh, I have got to agree. Why would it be a bug to hit someone in the head while they were sleeping? Hell, if anything it should do some extra damage and maybe a mal or two.

Just imagine if you could be set to the rest position, and given trip lag, by the trip skill.

You would not have to worry about that because trip damage is tiny.

With cranial, you take significant damage (say 50). That means that if you are not being directly attacked, you will take 1000 damage over 40 rounds (if nothing misses and you are not protected) and be unable to get out unless you can send yourself out whilst resting (which in the village is unlikely, though possible).

A) I was a noob (2-3 years playing, if memory serves this was 2002)

B) my noobishness would have prevented me from noticing this about the mechanics because

C) I would never be in a situation to where I would want to tank another mob and then cranial someone else without using 'hit' as a noob.

D) No one in the Entropy cabal or Sylvan cabals asked me to do this.

Peck is cancellable and wiped by truesight.

cancle seems buggy but can you imagine life as a villager if truesight did not have a chance to cure peck? This could just be a game balance issue as far as truesight.

Cranial can now cranial sleeping people provided the wake timer has worn off, making it run completely and utterly counter to why the change was made in the first place. In fact, in most situations, it is now BETTER than it was before the cranial tweak upping the special effects and making it account for headgear when it barely knocked people out at all.

I am all for cranial being not a semi half waste of a skill. Now the fail rate on perfected pincer needs to drop . Anyways it just always seemed so buggy that because I knocked you senseless i can't hit you again... it would make more sense that as people get dazed you hit them more often or harder but I like the new changes to be honest.

I'm all for having a reason to play mace spec again, but why is the first even possible, and second, why does peck last longer than dirt kick when it already only has one round lag?

peck might have one round lag but its not a 100% chance of blinding and facegear may play a factor.wearing a full helm I was pecked a ton and barely ever got blinded. And the longer duration could be partly due to the fact that it is cureable whereas dirt kick is not.

>cancle seems buggy but can you imagine life as a villager if truesight >did not have a chance to cure peck? This could just be a game balance >issue as far as truesight.

Consistency is key for game balance.


>I am all for cranial being not a semi half waste of a skill. Now the >fail rate on perfected pincer needs to drop . Anyways it just always >seemed so buggy that because I knocked you senseless i can't hit you >again... it would make more sense that as people get dazed you hit them >more often or harder but I like the new changes to be honest.

I agree with you. Except it's now better than before it was nerfed. Because you can keep spamming till they get KO'd, check your affects, pop a couple speckled pills and then keep cranialing. Making it far better than it ever used to be at ANY point in the past 1v1 and negligible during some raids even taking into account the headgear. (notice how people keep expecting to be safe while still sleeping and keep dying when the ko timer wears off)

I'm looking for the rationale for nerfing it to ####, and then giving it a situational uber buff (works essentially as it used to before it's nerf 1v1 but creates openings during raids)

peck might have one round lag but its not a 100% chance of blinding and facegear may play a factor.wearing a full helm I was pecked a ton and barely ever got blinded. And the longer duration could be partly due to the fact that it is cureable whereas dirt kick is not.

Except it's a physical skill. That's not consistent. The former I can understand but I still think a change like that should be mentioned in a helpfile, not discovered on one's own. It's slowly getting to the point you can be protected from half the attacks in the game by wearing Velkyn Oloth helms with the visors.

Anyway, even taking all those disadvantages into consideration, headgear included, it should act like dirt kick. It'll STILL be better than dirt kick because dirt kick gets you killed, peck spam on an air shifter does not normally get you killed.

Perma-lag used to be common. Now, provided you have any type of solid headgear, the absolute worst you are looking at is trip lag.

>Perma-lag used to be common.

This is false.

You've never been able to get better than trip lag out of cranial.