Dwarves killing dwarves for eq is bad RP. I can't justify doing this as a good or neutral dwarf and there is quite a bit of decent dwarf armor on neutral NPCs. Would you consider giving dwarves some other way of getting eq from dwarven mobs such as requesting or bartering?

I see the typical dwarf as being too cantankerous to give away their things. I would expect a dwarf to say something akin to: Yer a bleedin' beggar and I ain't givin' yer a thing! Go out and make yer own! I have earned everythin' I got, if yer want it, yer gunna have ta take it from my cold dead hands!

And yes, I think a dwarf who kills another dwarf to be a backstabbing scum and a traitor to the race.

I wouldn't mind seeing something where honorable combat might be able to be used. But, I am not a coder so I would have no idea how that could be accomplished. Also, other imms might disagree with this as well. This is just how I think it should be.

Where as an elf might request something by saying, "Noble sir, I humbly ask that you might lend me aid in my time of need," a dwarf might be saying, "Yer jus' standin' around here guardin' a fargin' staircase, lad. Gimme that axe an' I'll be cleavin' a host o' orcs! By Ludan's beard I'm swearin' it t'yeh!!"


Changing echoes for requesting would be the simplest way to tweak the game so that it is a little less beneficial to be completely evil.


Racial requests should be allowed, in my opinion, with varying degrees of results based on a number of factors. For instance, a fire giant could try requesting from a fire giant, but unless he's well known, fierce, and appears to be in top form, the one he's asking will probably try to kill him for it. All evil races might similarly value PK prowess. Imm XP should help too. Gnomes might value observation/explore XP, as they crave wisdom.

Go suck on that.

Allowing racial request among evil races would necessitate a big evaluation of the levels of various non-aggro evil mobs. Plus it doesn't really make sense. What you're suggesting is basically like a race-limited version of the anti-paladin skill "demand", but available to any evil who is sufficiently badass.

Anyone can ask anyone else for something (not "demand," but ask). What I am suggesting is that the criteria for that process could be re-evaluated in such a way that it would fit each race (or perhaps each alignment). Goodies would have the best chance of success. Neutrals, in between. Evils, definitely the hardest. However, there are exceptions for them all.

Take druids. Now, that bunch might be willing to help each other via requestable goods as much as goodies might, in general. Despite the occasional Amora-type, they are something of a brotherhood with a common understanding between them.

Evils might have more subtle bonuses per situation. Let's take a high level drow requesting from a lower level duergar npc. Now, drow are hated and feared by other Underdark races, so the pc might get a bonus in this situation. It could easily change for a number of reasons, though. Let's say the levels are equal and the drow pc is alone. Now, the duergar would probably say "Up yours!" and try to kill him. Put that same drow in a group and it becomes more dangerous to take that action.

I realize it's probably a lot to chew on from a coder stand point (although the debate over the variables and the implementation might actually be kinda fun for some people), but I think it might ultimately lead to a better game.


This wasn't even my idea and now I'm crusading for it. Heh.

Details on this old post of mine on the subject:

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=695&mesg_id=702&page=

That's an interesting idea. The trading aspect. If you wanted to be annoying, you could make it so the item given in exchange has to be the same wear-slot as the item being traded for *and* must be wearable by the mob in question (i.e. can't trade evil-only items to neutral mobs).

I don't think adding text would necessarily work. I can also see a dwarf who hears the words replying, "Yer talkin' da talk, how 'bout walkin' da walk?" I don't think in all cases that all races would allow requesting from those they think beneath them. Dwarf to dwarf that isn't good to good shouldn't have the same parameters as neutral to good or neutral to neutral. I could realistically see Ludan telling any dwarf that requested gear from him to go to the depths because he has the drow to fight, for instance. Perfect match or tougher should require honorable combat. Perhaps anything lesser than that might work.

Do you mean set up some ability to enter combat with a mob (that makes sense, e.g. dwarf vs dwarf) like you would at the arena? Where you don't kill them, but if they are defeated, then you have earned what you are attempting to "request?"

That's pretty much how I view how a dwarf would react.

Almost all of the Dwarves with the good equipment are neutral. It doesn't even make sense for a neutral Dwarf to kill a neutral Dwarf, you're right. And Duergar can't wear half the equipment carried by these neutral Dwarves, because they're flagged anti-evil.

The only Dwarf I could see killing neutral Dwarves (not necessarily for the EQ), is a Muhadin-type Dwarf.

I've played one Dwarf, and could never justify killing Dern (Pwent at the time), or Ludan, or any of those elite guards, etc. After that, I just decided not to play another one.

Felar chief is neutral too. Not like he's the only source for high-end felar gear, but he's a big one. In his case, either good *or* evil would work. Probably evil- you want the goodies to have to work for that gear.

From the race helpfile:

"So fierce is their loyalty towards others of their race and those lucky enough to be called friends, that it is often said with grim seriousness that it is far more deadly to kill a friend of a dwarf than it is to assault the dwarf directly."

Let's stick to dwarves as no other race is like this.

Sure, but the same principle applies here for goodie felar. Dude is neutral, and there's really nothing about him that screams "it's okay to kill this neutral guy". I'm not saying it's questional RP because of the felar-on-felar aspect, it's questionable because of the goodie-on-neutral aspect.

What you're saying is true, but...

I'm focusing on the dwarven loyalty thing which other races dont have. I'm also saying that neutral dwarven players shouldn't kill dwarven mobs.

I don't think we disagree here. I'm with you on the dwarves. My point is that good-aligned felar currently suffer this same sort of issue. Namely, there is a decent amount of high-end gear on a mob that isn't killable or requestable by such characters. At least, not without some questionable RP.

Which is what the topic is about. Why are you trying to hijack it with other useless information (like usual)? Just stop. If you want to talk about your felar fetish, start another thread for that kind of thing.

Uh. It's exactly like the dwarf situation. Gear specific to certain characters is on certain mobs that said characters are prevented from killing due to RP. Only reason I mentioned the chief is to point out that this isn't only a problem for dwarves.

Felar are nothing like Dwarves though. For the exact reason that The Heretic has pointed out.

I can find a dozen different ways for any felar, of any align, to kill another neutral felar.

It's nothing like the Dwarf situation. At all.

Okay. Maybe we have different views on goods killing neutrals then. I don't think it's kosher for goodies of any variety to go around popping neutrals for gear, including the chief, without a good reason. Like, the neutral mob is described as being engaged in some arguably evil act, is non-sentient, etc. You, apparently, don't have that restriction.