First off, let me just say that I have formed no opinion on this topic. I just like to get conversations going because they are enlightening.

As Carrion Fields continuously moves towards a state of "perfection" regarding race/class/cabal/combo balance, is the need for XP penalties becoming a problem, or is it more valuable than ever? Of course, perfection can never be reached, but the great thing about CF is that people are still trying to get there, which is what makes the game so dynamic.

Anyhow, let's take AP's as a case for this discussion.

With the introduction of Edges, the scaling effectiveness of AP spells based on INT, and the changes (enhancements) to all things dex-based, is the XP penalty of a drow now as viable as the same given to a fire giant? Was it EVER as viable?

Basically, if the game were balanced, why would XP penalties be needed?

Are you saying that a fire ap needs a reduced exp penalty relative to a drow?

Because that's what the argument of edges and ap's having int-based spells supports.

However, fire ap's should be killing more people than drow.

Fire AP's may always be the top dogs, AP-wise, but I don't know if they should have 500xp more than, say, a human AP nowadays.

All XP penalties do is put you in a ####tier PK range. Personally I'd change fire giant's racial XP penalty to 400, or 350, and drop dark-elves to 300.

My point is, mainly, that fire giants, while still potent at all ranges, have more competition from people their own levels than ever before due to the balancing that has occured. Give me two level 20 AP's of any race and I think it would honestly be a toss up. Sure, the fire giant has the bash advantage, but if you are a drow or arial wearing a shield and sword with decent axe knowledge, you will probably do pretty damn well!

I would love to see the class split into two or more focuses, with at least one allowing "dodge" in the repetoire. If any class is perfect for some kind of internal split, it's AP's. I mean, it would be easy to split along magical/non-magical lines, or maybe necromantic/demonic magics (which ARE different), and fighting styles to suit.

Is that this negates the purpose of humans. Favorable enemy levels make up 50% of the race's purpose, as I see it.

It lessens it. As it stands, humans have some pretty favorable stats, considering the changes to INT and DEX.

I have never seen anything fair or fun about designing a race so that everything it fights is handicap (that is, everything non-human). That's just lame.

It's balanced in the sense one person can't have unlimited power in too many areas - some excell at exploration, others at pk, others fit between a number of catagories - but it is in no way universally 'balanced'.

I think exp penalties could be reviewed. I think the idea was to slow down the races/classes that are more powerful at Hero but things have definetly changed. I wouldn't say giants are still worth their 500 exp penalty, 400 would be better. Elves were not worth it before but have become a much better racial choice with dexterity changes, evade, more skills focused on int/wis, etc.

I don't think the game will ever be balanced in the sense everyone has equal power. A lot of power comes from your situation and your ability to manipulate it. Such as being good align, and being able to find available allies to help you against that Lich powerhosue. Or you might just have to dive into the woodwork and home he doesn't come knocking until the situation changes to something more or less favourable.

Yhorian

Edit:If there was one thing I would change - it might be giving good aligns more 'hell' like gear options while giving evil more opportunity to go out on gear gathering expeditions. Maybe even making Hell more viable to smaller groups - though I have no idea how that might work out long term.