Has there even been a thought to use the "pen" skill and have invokers or perhaps other mages be able to create their own scrolls? Perhaps allow an invoker to create a scroll of "sheen of stone" or something like that? It would probably cost alot of extra mana to store the magic within the scroll (maybe 10 times the cost) and if you fail there is a possibility that the scroll would explode and cause you damage, especially if it was a higher level spell. Putting 10 times the amount of mana within a scroll of "fireball" would cause one hell of a fireball if it exploded. The scroll spell would be perhaps 5 levels below the casters current level for balance purposes. You must first have mastery of the spell. Maybe some spells are too complex to be placed on a scroll. Just a thought...

I've seen a system along these lines implemented elsewhere and I didn't like the ultimate results upon gameplay. I'm not interested in trying to implement it here.

nt

nt

I think it's one of those things that seems like a really cool idea at first until you see or think through all of the implications... mainly involving giving the crafted items to other characters to use. I can understand the appeal.

You are right in the fact that I did not even think of how an endless supply of fireball scrolls for a thief would completely unbalance things. I was looking at it purely from a mage only point of view. Even if you had the scrolls crumble on death, it would not prevent a mage from selling a scroll or just plain giving them out. Maybe someday I'll think of something to solve this. I'll let you know!

A general issue I have with crafting systems is that they tend to reward repetitive, noninteractive gameplay, especially if the crafted item is either permanent (armor), or permanent until used (scrolls). The ability to whip up temporary perks (like the mundunugu abilities) does the opposite-- you want to quickly gather things, then seek action immediately. They push you to keep your feet moving.

Permanent enhancements either:

1) "Monty Haul" the system: If it's easy and permanent, anyone with the ability can enhance damn near everything. Now everyone with the scrolls ability can have a backpack full of options. Right now, this is controlled by area review-- we decide how easy it is to acquire a scroll of whatever, if you can at all.

2) Increase equipment investment: If it's not easy, but permanent, there's a big incentive to spend a ton of time gathering consumables (or repeatedly trying an uncertain process, or whatever else makes it not easy) and converting them into enhancements. Now, everyone with the Scrolls ability and a ton of free time has a backpack full of options, and people without that kind of free time don't. And when the guy with a backpack full of scrolls dies and they're taken or destroyed, he'll inevitably complain that someone "ruined his set".

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

After reading how much thought you both put into this, I will never again question whether something is in balance or not. You both obviously spend alot of time pouring over these types of things and I salute you for it. The more and more I think about it, the more and more I realize that this would have to be an extremely high level skill and those just completely screw balance over.

Maybe I'll stick to think more of low level skills. Maybe a nice perk low level lightning spell that would make it more appealing. Call is "static shield" that discharges a small amount of damage when struck or something stupid like that. not able to be combined with "sheen of stone" or any other shields, just something to help get to the big boy shields.

Maybe I'll stick to think more of low level skills. Maybe a nice perk low level lightning spell that would make it more appealing. Call is "static shield" that discharges a small amount of damage when struck or something stupid like that. not able to be combined with "sheen of stone" or any other shields, just something to help get to the big boy shields.

Ideas like this are sort of my pet project. (I think having a lot of flash at the low ranks is great for hooking new players. I want to "wow!" people as much as possible in their first few hours.) I think Sheen of Stone is a cool spell, but the idea of having a set of element-themed spells, mutually exclusive with one another a la partial shifts, is a good one for several reasons:

1) It creates depth without necessarily screwing with power so much. If you had 7 defensive spells piled on top of one another, the small power bumps would add up too quickly.

2) It introduces a theme you're going to see later at level 38, along with the concept of planning your defense. You can make a decision about which one is best for you and go with it.

3) It can be made interesting for non-invokers. Maybe Crackling Nimbus^* only triggers on metal weapons (or hand-to-hand) hitting the invoker. Let's say your best weapon is metal. Do you eat the zaps(**) or swap weapons? Does the invoker even have that up? Tactics!

(*): Let's avoid any more invoker spells with the word "Shield".
(**): Or whatever. I'd like to avoid duplicating the effects of greater shields where practical.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Along the same lines of writing scrolls, since the idea is cool, like Daevryn mentioned...

The scrolls crumble after so long, if you drop them or give them to an NPC then they crumble after a couple of hours, they can't be put in a container (a la limited,) they can't be recited on another person (a la metabolic quickening scroll on warrior,) and there's a chance they will get ripped and torn during combat, in which case causes the magic contained within the scroll to explode in your inventory and maybe cause you damage. Put enough restrictions on it, and it becomes a good skill to use, but also has some serious drawbacks. I'd also make the damage caused bypass damage reduction (a la critical hit.)

If it's something like fireball, maybe have the damage cause potions in your inventory to burst, which also causes slight damage (a la broken glass.)

The pen skill would have to be at a considerable skill percentage to make use of it. Don't limit it to what spells can be used.

P.S. For some reason, I liked using a la in this post. Don't know why.

While I think this is a cool idea in theory I don't like what I think it would lead too. A scroll crafting skill like this really empowers not the mage who created them but their allies since the mage has very limited reason to need one of the spells in his repertoire on a scroll, thieves, bards, ranger all would get a big boost in power by this since the most useful spells, quickening, elemental shields, etc would now be available in abundance. Also, since I feel scrolls used as preps would be the most common and useful, making them limited, rot death, etc does not reduce the power substantially if you have a easy supply of them, that is an IC mage friend who can make you more. It also strengths the groups that normally have access to a large variety of mages, that being the fortress, scions, nexus most notably.

>
>If it's something like fireball, maybe have the damage cause
>potions in your inventory to burst, which also causes slight
>damage (a la broken glass.)

Sounds like naked craftin' time!

(Just pointing out that in thinking up drawbacks, you also have to consider everything players can and will do to get AROUND those drawbacks.)

Certain spells get really ugly if just any mage (or bard, thief, etc.) can put them up, and there's isn't necessarily a good link between level and impact. You can try to restrict that via all kinds of mechanisms (explosions, only selected spells, etc.), but I haven't seen a good system proposed for it.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com