For anyone who groans about this being a rehash, I'm just looking for some closure. This drives me crazy. If a Half-Elf specs dex they only get 23 dex.

The reason given for this: Neither humans or half-elves get 24 dex.

Now compared to wisdom primaries who get 24 wisdom(even though neither races get 24).

The reason given for this was that there is no reason to pick wisdom as a warrior. Now, especially after Dinkertot's success as a gnome warrior, due mainly to his use of "Striking the Shadow's Footfall" we'll see more gnome warriors. High Wisdom, and high Intelligence made it a good choice.

But a half-elf/half-drow get 24 wisdom. So to pick a halfbreed over a gnome you get more strength, more dex, more con, and very similar wis and int with 200 less exp pen. This means a better pk range, and more chances to use that legacy. Not to mention being able to go evil/good and not being confined to just neutral.

So really here's my problem, I can't stand the reasons given for reducing the half-elves. I always saw it as a quick race, that was the product of their parents. Humans are really good at adapting, and so when combined with the elves, a race that is already as quick as the quickest human you would get something even better.

Now, please, if an Immortal can just respond and say "This change was due to Game Balance issues" I would accept it, what I can't accept is the reasoning that its because humans and elves dont have it naturally.

Immortals, please clear this up for me. Declare it Game Balance(or some other logical reason) instead of the previously mentioned, or change it and I'll be much happier. Gaining an int, wis, vuln, and exp pen over human dex warriors and losing a con, just seems unbalanced.

Couldn't you just play a half-drow? I mean they're basically the same as half-elves except you can't use mithril instead of iron. But at least you'd be able to get that 24 dex you want, right? Just a thought.

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That guy put a lot of groaning over one point of dex though.

Although, If I'm playing a primarily dex specced warrior, where many of my skills depend on dex, I would much rather have an extra dex than an extra str. As for why I wouldn't want to do half-drow: role reasons, gear choices, if I know I'm going to be playing a lot of drows I'd like to be able to wield mithril, if I'm good I'd like access to the varied good only mithril items, if I'm evil, I might want to switch things up and have an iron vuln as many goodie weapons are mithril. They use a certain logic and reasoning for one attribute, but than completely ignore it for the other.

A half-elf can't have 24 dex because neither his mommy or his daddy could have that much, but just because its not popular half-elvse can have 24 wis, regardless of what their parents could ever manage on their own.

Elf Maxes: Str: Strong (18) Int: God-like (25) Wis: Sagacious (21)
Dex: Quick (23) Con: Average (16) Charisma: Disarming (21)

Human Maxes: Str : Strong (20) Int: Genius (20) Wis: Wise (20)
Dex : Dextrous (20) Con: Healthy (20) Cha: Charismatic (20)

Humans gain additional power (+3) in the prime stat of their chosen class.


So let's take a look. Character's Mother is an elf with 23 dex. And his dad is a human, with 20, but humans are known for their adaptibility. Add them together, we get 23.

Now, his Mom's got 21 wis, and his dad has 20. Add them together and you get....24! It doesnt make any sense.

The way I always thought of it: Half-Elf gets the increased dex from his mothers side(who had 23)making his base 21, and gets his ability to excel in certain things from his dads side. Making 24.

I'm just looking for a better reason than the one they gave. Or at least acknowledge that its screwed up.

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I think you're more likely to see half-elves with 23 wis than 23 dex.

I can understand where this player's confusion/complaint is coming from, though. I've played a half-drow warrior with wisdom as the primary statistic once (quite) a while ago, and often found myself wondering the same.

What this basically comes down to in my opinion is the number of consistency issues that seem to arise from the current set-up regarding half-elves, and to a lesser extent half-drows, and their primary statistics. The most common of these issues, as the original poster pointed out, is a half-human's ability to reach a wisdom which neither type of parent inherently is able to. Given the rationale behind a half-elf with a dexterity primary who will then reach a number of 23 at best in that statistic, you'd thus expect a half-human choosing wisdom as his primary to receive a 23 wisdom and have the remaining point flow into another stat just the same.

One other thing regarding half-elven characters is the removal of their ability to reach a 24 dexterity, as under the current set-up this tends to result in a perceived limitation for a player who intends to have the character actually be of wood-elven lineage, rather than of high-elven. Naturally (no pun intended), one would expect a half wood-elven character like this to have the option/be able to reach a dexterity of 24 for the same reasons a half-drow can. And conversely, a half-elf who is partially of a wood-elven lineage would have little business achieving a 24 intelligence either as they are currently able to, even when/if roleplayed as a half wood-elven character. Quite a hassle really, especially if you're not too familiar with the effects the character's age has on its stats for whatever reason.

I'll agree that this isn't worth creating a seperate sub-race for in a similar fashion to how the distinction between half-elf and half-drow originally was made. Indeed, that would potentially make CF drift in the direction of MUDs where humanity has managed to mix itself with virtually everything bar things that sprout tentacles (and then some). But on the other hand, it might be quite an interesting new feature to give a player who chooses half-elf for a race a choice at character creation between this character being partially of high-elven heritage or wood-elven heritage, and then have their statistical make-up correspond to that choice accordingly. E.g.; you choose 'half-elf' as your race, and receive as your next question: "Are you of high-elven or of wood-elven lineage?", just to give one very bland example.

From a practical point of view, I'd say this would come down to the following;

1) a half high-elf with dexterity as primary statistic achieves 23 dex and has the remaining point allocated to the strength stat as is the case already.
2) a half high-elf with intelligence as his or her primary achieves 24 intelligence just the same.
3) a half wood-elf with dexterity as the primary stat achieves 24 dexterity.
4) a half wood-elf with intelligence as the primary statistic achieves 23 intelligence and has the remaining point allocated to wisdom, resulting in 23 int / 22 wis.
5) all types of half-elf that choose wisdom as their primary stat receive 23 wisdom and have the remaining point allocated to intelligence, resulting in 22 int / 23 wis.

Be warned that all the above is the result of some early morning brainstorming however, so feel free to ignore as needed.

As long as half-drows are consistent with this rule too.

And I wrote that legacy.