I was wondering if this form was tweaked recently or in need of some tweaking because the main attack damage output is severly decreased since last I played one. I was just wondering if this was something intentional or a rather nasty oversight. I really haven't notice any increase in the damage reduction or regeneration to really compensend for it's damage output.

Just a simple question if one of the staff could address it.

Before the change it was a pretty good form. After the change it's horrible as an offensive form. One attack per round has some serious drawbacks, but the big damage meant that it was still offensive. With one attack and devastates damage it's weak. It's hard to consider it as anything but as decently offensive utility form (the orangutan is more offensive all things considered).

The one thing it's good for is exploring underwater. If you're interested in exploring underwater, but don't want to go water minor, then alligator is a fine form for you. In that case it works out nicely because you can explore both on land and in the water. But if you want an offensive form that does good damage then you just got screwed. It's way worse from that perspective than the much-maligned jaguar.

I would almost certainly delete if I got one with a character that I wasn't particularly invested in.

It was changed awhile back. Use to be a land-based shark with one really big bite. Now it has several smaller bites and you can even bite every two or three rounds I think. I'd say it's pretty much the same difference.

"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens." - Jimi Hendrix

I've never seen it do two and metabolic quickening doesn't work on forms (sadly). The problem is, its no longer really offensive. It's single chomp per round is comparable to one slash of a lion's claw (DEV to DEMO). It will very rarely hit OBLIT if you pump it up. As far as offense forms go, its more of a utility form than the rest of them. Except, even on water it still moves like a paraplegic tortoise (a common trait in offensive forms, utility all move faster than normal).

Bad stuff asside, it is amphibious (underwater ranking!) and thats a huge plus, it has weak regen (a life saver) and good dam redux. It's auto-bite attack is pretty chompable and it can do the roll thing on water for 2 round lag and huge water based damage (mostly useless underwater, very handy in PK for driving people off).

I stress the above is from observation/statements, having not had one myself (two shifter characters to date!). In my opinion, it is more 'utility' than most offensive forms but it gives advantages in all-round use for its lower melee ability. I would be tempted to give it something that says 'i'm still offensive!' but as far as balance goes, its a great form.

Yhorian.

Huh, well, can't always be right. Could have sworn it had multiple attacks per round now. Shark still only have one?

"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens." - Jimi Hendrix

From what I've seen of the alligator (went ranking with one) Yhorian pretty much read my mind. It really is more of a poor man's utility form than offense. All the other 4th tier offense forms (from what I've seen) do more damage output that the gator but gator is the only one that can go underwater. Its bite command attack has a 3 round lag on it though so it's pretty much better off on surface water rooms or swamps/marshes to make use of roll. It also has another little trick on it that I won't mention. If played right it could win a fight by either killing someone or making them flee at convulsing.

That's really no big secret.

Oh right. Just didn't know if divulging all the skills a form has OOC is cool or not for the forums. But looks like as long as it's not a quest form it's fair game.

People will always interpret things differently, guess at stuff they 'might' remember and overlook obvious tricks and nacks you might find.

I've found out so much by ignoring general consensus and kicking arse. That said, this kind of info is good for a 'first look' and can give you a general idea of what xxx form might be good for. The anaconda is one form I would LOVE to have, people just didn't look at it hard enough. Anaconda+a decent offense form (tiger or ram for example) is likely a death squad waiting to happen for all warrior classes (and even others, with skill). I'd seriously take it above anything except (maybe) a porc. People just have to guess why, but its been said ooc and there's a large percent of the population who skim over and look at the downsides instead.

Remember when that cool felar shifter who eventually hit scion had the Anaconda and studied it? He kicked hide, and shut up 90% of the whines about it. I'm not saying that the alligator doesn't need more than a little tweaking as its an awesome explore form AND amphibious - just that you can't trust 100% what we say even if we're 'experts'.

Yhorian.

A lion's rake will do way more damage in the one round its rake lags than the 'gator will do with the circumstantially working drowning rolls. The gator should be third tier.

There's lots of great forms, and there's some you just wouldn't want under most circumstances.

The Alligator is one of them that is pretty handy, but is not really why you choose offense. Just the same with the anaconda - no one can say its a bad form its just not what you pick when you think 'defensive form'.

With three foci, there is always room for one naff form - and then you may well want it because you've got the two pk forms you wanted anyhow! Anyone who claims they'll spam roll to get the 'amazing' combo's you could get at hero, is crazy. Think of spam rolling now and how fortunate you have to be to get owl/tiger. Or wildcat/lion. Or dolphin/eagle. It's just not going to happen that often, and the forms are balanced enough that it won't be insane when it does.

Yhorian.

Only other alternative right now is doubling up on focii. You go with Offense as your major but get alligator as a final. Haven't chosen your minor yet since you were waiting to see what'd you get? Go with Offense as a minor and pray to all that is just and fair not to get jaguar.

Got Anaconda? Defense minor then and get the dillo. Hee. You get what I'm saying

I've had Alligator/armadillo with an old herald I had Kryflen. That's back when I'd hit unspeaks and erads constantly on main melee attacks and consistant demo's on bite attack. As for what yhorian was saying about sealing a kill with what the form can do I invite you to post a log of it or elaborate.

All I ask is that it be looked at and maybe up the lower ave on damage or give it two attacks per round at what the current dam is set at? I'm not looking for a complete overhaul just a slight glance.

I had four shifters in a row get it. Hows that for bad luck.

I had powerranked and deleted them all quickly.

It doesnt do enough damage. One Devastates is typical. Also it misses alot. Moves super slow so it cant chase a hamstrung pig...It's bite attack has massive lag on it. Last shifter i traveled with was Illoria, she had the Cobra. Cobra was hitting for more damage, dodged better, and was regenerating faster. It really needs looking at or remove it entirely.

With ABS and the old damage it had, the form was pretty deadly. The IMMS are assuming now someone will fully prep with the form, so I think that is why it was toned. Dranolians alligator began the end of the old school way...

Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.