Thought I'd start a topic here for commentary.

In short, discuss what you liked or didn't like about the recent story/quests. We tried to cover a pretty wide variety of events/plot/activities. What would you have liked to see more of or less of?

Talk amongst yourselves.

i happened to be playing during the week of 'chaos' where stuff was just kind of randomly happening.

the no attachment chance to interact with people and imms was really a lot of fun, and a good example of something I have tried to always suggest more of.

giving out stupid rewards for people who show up and do something is also an *excellent* use of positive reinforcement to train the pbase into roleplaying and participating.

and I have the utmost respect for you actually posting and apparently giving a #### about our opinion - that/this is one of the most positive things I can think of in recent years.


I'm curious how much effort it took you all to run some of those mini-quests?

I would support with severe prejudice any sort of movement that took imms away from 'improvements' and into general mayhemmery like that.

So yeah, it was one of the players affecting the world
thing, where I probably said something like when Imperials
do something their forces turn more forests to useless
ash or collect taxes and give to Imperial players, or if
Scion does it... well you get the idea, player actions
affecting the world more than the cabal-item capture the
flag wars we got now.

Anyways, I recall the response as to why there wasn't any
of this implemented was "Well, we have this big problem of
if one guy is winning, this just makes them win even more
and be even more harder to overcome," then ya'll I think
said you might consider it if whatever benefit diminishes
over time. Oh yeah, one of you said it might be considered
if say, the losing cabal's PCs get higher xp for raids or
other things when they have things that are against them,
or other boons to eventually help negate one side constantly
being the king of the mountain.

Anyways, my question is...
... do the new things that can be influenced by the Veils
thinning or thickening have a diminishing effect over
time if neither side does nothing? If not, you guys just
changed your mind or something?

- Runaktla

>... do the new things that can be influenced by the Veils
>thinning or thickening have a diminishing effect over
>time if neither side does nothing?

Yep! Over time the Veil effect drifts towards, not balance exactly, but an equilibrium depending on relatively stable factors. So ten mages doing things like crazy at 3am system time and then logging off probably won't mean that calling spellbane at 9am makes your Battle warrior's hair all fall out.

Calling spellbane has a CHANCE to make my Battle warrior's hair all fall out?

I'm never playing a Battle warrior again.

nt

If it was from the Inferno, it would be the... erm...

Well, there would be severe repercussions.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

.

If you word somebody else and it fails, you as the caster get no echo. I know its obvious what happened when they are still there, but its a little confusing the first time it happens. Maybe add an echo for the caster in that situation?

I'm pretty sure it was you I was talking to wizi last night, so you already know my general thoughts, but in case it was someone else I wanted to post here for you.

Great time. Period.

But how in god's name could you not put an echo in for when the blood effects making it safe for me to go into the Veil wear off?!?!?! I am still upset about it, and though I didn't lose sleep over it, it was a close thing. ;P

Rare that a player has a chance to do something that will last a long time and have a real effect, and I was there with the right tools at the right place at the right time, and just ####ed it up. If I didn't have some small sense of self control I'd have put my head through the neighbor's wall. Several times. I'm convinced that together Grim and I would have trounced them. Oh well, spilt milk as I said.

Other than that though, the whole thing was a great time. Really high quality stuff, all of it. But I get the sense from your post that you're looking to hear where we might have had a problem or were less happy with it, so I'll focus on that much smaller percentage. Bear in mind though that really it was a great process.

Like all quests there are some drawbacks - you get a hint of something, or a lead, then go follow it but nobody is there, no imm is continuing, and you spend a few hours doing, well, nothing. That gets frustrating. On the one hand you're told that you as a player (generally) have to go out and do stuff to advance the story and the quest, but on the other hand, nothing really happens unless the imms are ready and there to actually do the stuff, and they must initiate it to let you know they're around and up for some interaction. I don't have the answer but there is probably a way to improve that. A good example being our quest for the blood. We heard about it, I spent at least 10-20 rl hours looking for it, but only when someone (you?) came as the ghost of Fenan did we learn where it might be, and then not for sure, causing more hours. Once you told us what we had to look for, we still couldn't find it and get it, not until you (or another imm) took more steps. Same with the monk, we knew we had to find one, but nothing we did would locate him, it could only happen when you the imms were ready to bring him out. That's what I'm driving at.

A particularly good thing I noticed was a real diversity in staff and interaction. In one form or another I think I dealt with at least three and as many as five imms directly, be it in their own forms (Thank you for the kind words last night Eshval, they were very welcome, even more ooc than ic, though that too) or in switched mobs or just echoes. Lyristeon in particular was a stand-out rpwise for the quest, at least when interactions with me were involved. Other players I'm sure had great interactions with others as well.

I was somewhat surprised at how the bracelet tournament was held. From Iunna's note, particularly the honorable combat part of it, I know most of us thought there would be one on one fights, sort of like the Rites. I very much like the idea of pitting groups of players against eachother by rp - battle vs. mages, good vs evil, whatever. But in this case I think a Macalla Monk would have more likely had a combat tournament rather than a hide and seek with fightinginvolved as a side-note. IMNSHO of course. ;P

Super, super, super thumbs up on how you treated people getting involved at all levels. I know there were a bunch of hero-range characters that were annoyed at me (at least in char, I hope not ooc!) when I, as a level 36 or around there, came and killed one of them and generally harrassed them, during the digging/island phase of the quest. But for my character it was very chancy, going after someone surrounded by allies who could help him, and something I had to do because of his role as a villager. Someone up there saw it and gave me a very nice reward for it, but not just from a mechanics position, it was better even because it was very role-oriented. I thought that was really terrific. Subsequent quest involvement was equally well rewarded, especially for those that sucked up some deaths/equ loss, and various other sacrifices. Time itself being a big one. Most of us love the involvement itself, but let's be honest, we all also hope to get some cool new stuff out of it too, in whatever form.

Finally I also want to give a big thumb's up to the idea of lasting consequences, not just a big bang to make a change (like the splitting of clerics and such), but rather a continued day to day effect on the theran environment and character life. Don't have a ####ing clue how good or bad it will end up for anyone, but at least it's innovative and if you don't take a chance now and then, what's the point?

So thanks very much for all of it.

And if you ever ####ing put me with a quest item that I need to use, put a damn echo for when it wears off on it, will you?!?! Please??? ;P

>Like all quests there are some drawbacks - you get a hint of
>something, or a lead, then go follow it but nobody is there,
>no imm is continuing, and you spend a few hours doing, well,
>nothing. That gets frustrating. On the one hand you're told
>that you as a player (generally) have to go out and do stuff
>to advance the story and the quest, but on the other hand,
>nothing really happens unless the imms are ready and there to
>actually do the stuff, and they must initiate it to let you
>know they're around and up for some interaction. I don't have
>the answer but there is probably a way to improve that. A
>good example being our quest for the blood. We heard about
>it, I spent at least 10-20 rl hours looking for it, but only
>when someone (you?) came as the ghost of Fenan did we learn
>where it might be, and then not for sure, causing more hours.
>Once you told us what we had to look for, we still couldn't
>find it and get it, not until you (or another imm) took more
>steps. Same with the monk, we knew we had to find one, but
>nothing we did would locate him, it could only happen when you
>the imms were ready to bring him out. That's what I'm driving
>at.

The ghost of Fenan was me. It just happened to work out that way since I was Fenan as a mortal and Stormace's last tattooed follower. The vial of blood was limited to one for obvious reasons. It was on the mob that you eventually killed. The problem was that by accident, another one existed and the one you found poofed when you guys killed the dragon. I had to rp the whole thing after you killed it off the top of my head. Even so, you guys got it at the time that you found it. Nothing was different about that quest. That was the only one you spoke about that I basically did.

>
>A particularly good thing I noticed was a real diversity in
>staff and interaction. In one form or another I think I dealt
>with at least three and as many as five imms directly, be it
>in their own forms (Thank you for the kind words last night
>Eshval, they were very welcome, even more ooc than ic, though
>that too) or in switched mobs or just echoes. Lyristeon in
>particular was a stand-out rpwise for the quest, at least when
>interactions with me were involved. Other players I'm sure had
>great interactions with others as well.

Thanks for the compliment. I hope you got a kick out of the book.

I definitely chuckled out loud when you gave it to me, but if there was anything more to it than the ironic title, then I missed it. I'll have to look at it again!

It was just the title. For as long as you spent trying to find the path, I thought the title was appropriate.

I hope you're not responding is a sign that everything I wrote was perfectly clear. Unfortunately I think that's not likely, so maybe you were upset at something I wrote? I hope not. Nothing was meant to be anything other than high praise and a tiny bit of constructive suggestioning. And suggestioning is a word. I looked it up.

Just kidding, this is an awesome idea here, despite what
ShadowWhiner says. Every single deletion post for a char
of mine has something about advocating some sort of player's
ability to change the world (ie. Scion for making night
last longer, for their powers, or Outlander to spur forest
growth, Tribunal to have more guards, Empire to recede
forest growth) so it is nice to see something of a similar
effect go in.

I haven't had a character since Runaktla over a year ago,
and just recently started one(*) and wasn't high enough level to
participate (le sigh) but it sounds great, and I think it adds
another dimension to CF politics that hasn't quite been realized
yet. Now for my shameless plug regarding a semi-similar idea:

From Runaktla's(*) deletion thread: "and were it my opinion alone
n how it went, I would make Scion even more mysterious,
powerful, but stringent on RP and numbers. I'd give my left
nut to write a "Shadow Plane" area and use it as a platform
for different powers and the cabal in general. I'd make night
and day last longer, a spell to shroud an area in night
indefinitely, give Scions themselves greater power at night,
and weaken them during the day. Something like that."

- Runaktla

(*) - Is not a Scion-esque character now either.

I don't understand how this is acceptable posting.

Why is it OK for you to post about how Graatch was "crying", but not OK for someone else to describe your posts as "whining". Am I missing something?

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

What would you do if I called you Valgina everytime I reference you?


Edit: To answer your question, because Graatch is the only player I've ever heard request the change put in, that was discussed in said thread. Notice I called him Graatch, and not Sir CriesAlot. Or some other derogatory name. I guess to some degree you could delete that post too.

More edit: I wasn't alleging Graatch was always whining. But that he was about that subject. Runatkla was insinuating I as a poster do nothing but whine. Starting to get the picture?

.

Some time ago he did something (or maybe a whole lot of things, I don't really know the story) to piss a lot of people off. Thusly, the name "Graatch" became associated with a lot of bad feelings. So in that sense, yes it can be seen as derogitory. Probably why he posts as "The_Lord" now on Dio's.

That's the way I understand it, anyway.

Splntrd

We don't delete posts over every possible controversial word. Scroll down a bit for many examples of this. If the post is loaded with flames, if it's one poster causing the issue repeatedly, or if it's clearly a persistent problem which is an obstacle to discussion, we'll get involved. That's the call of the moderators, and posting to say "moderate this!" is not useful-- if the moderator thinks it should go, it goes whether or not you did that.

Conflict seems to follow you-- from MUD to MUD, from account to account as you changed your name here, on both official and unofficial boards, and with both IC and OOC flareups. It can't be a conspiracy, because the people you're butting heads with here aren't the same people you've butted heads with elsewhere. After a while, you might start to think the problem isn't "everyone else".

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

"That's the call of the moderators, and posting to say "moderate this!" is not useful-- if the moderator thinks it should go, it goes whether or not you did that."

Fair enough, I just thought it violated the spirit of the forums. I'll not say another word about it in the future.

"Conflict seems to follow you-- from MUD to MUD, from account to account as you changed your name here, on both official and unofficial boards, and with both IC and OOC flareups."

I don't know what the point of this flame was. I am sorry I don't think you guys fart perfume and piss holy water, but if all you want is ass-kissing remarks, you shouldn't have unbanned me. I call it like I see it. I may not always see it right, but I call it like I see it.

"It can't be a conspiracy, because the people you're butting heads with here aren't the same people you've butted heads with elsewhere."

Show me where I allege this conspiracy you reference, please?

"After a while, you might start to think the problem isn't "everyone else"

That is interesting reasoning there, Valg. If that is the stance you wish to take, however, you had better resign now, the 'playerbase' has been calling for your head for some time. Should we start to believe the problem is you? I don't think thats the case. Geniuses have always been scorned and ridiculed

Pretty much everyone thought the world was flat for thousands of years. That didn't mean it was.

If you ever decide you do care about the opinion of a die-hard prepper/mage player, ask yourself why someone(That's me), who plays tons of time(I'm addicted, yep), who has basically done nothing but heap praise upon the staff's work lately, would come here and all of a sudden be critical of a particular change.

Here's a tip: It's not because it's Monday.

It's your sandbox, ladies, gentleman. I merely sought to offer my opinion on recent large scale changes. I am sorry to anyone who was offended. It obviously took a lot of hard work and I don't want to discount that. Please do not come down so hard on those who dare to believe you may not be flawlessly perfect in every single decision you make. In return I'll remember I don't know it all

Is it took you all of 13 hours to decide you are never playing another mage. Whether intentional or not, your posts come off as a childish tantrum.

And certainly I am far from the only player to post on them. I am just the only player stupid enough to try and disagree with the staff on their forum. Ta ta.

>And certainly I am far from the only player to post on them.
>I am just the only player stupid enough to try and disagree
>with the staff on their forum. Ta ta.

Yes, the effects sucked for mages. In fact, I temporarily stopped playing my explorer mage because it wasn't worth the frustration since I wasn't going to get involved in the quest with that character.

But do you know to what extent the same mechanics are still in place? Do you know if preps and spells are still going to fizzle out at the same rate they were? How often is that going to be the case? How often will your haste prep give you the effect, but not be used up? How often will your potion of return work right through a cursed/norecall area? How much stronger is the stoneskin spell when magic is at its height?

Do you have answers to any of these questions, or the million others like them? As far as I know, these answers exist only in the minds of the people who designed and developed the system. Eventually it'll be common knowledge, but unless you can answer those kinds of questions, how can you conclude that the system is f-ed?

Yes, there will almost certainly be balancing issues. Maybe Battle will always be in power because once they get there it's impossible to dislodge them. Okay, so they tweak things some. Or maybe battle will always be out of power for the same reason. That too would be tweaked. But 6 months from now the system will be a fun and balanced addition. Right now there's no data to support any conclusion about the balance implications.

Except it really hasn't been, for reasons that I've decided are too numerous for me to waste the time going into for the sake of a jackass who isn't going to be persuaded anyway.

>I am just the only player stupid enough to try and disagree
>with the staff on their forum.

Well, you're partly right.

Give it a rest. You are just looking like a fool.

Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.

This was not really a useful post by me.

Summary:

It's not true that "the playerbase" has it in for Valg. A few people do.

But, my insults are quick and sleazy! And, they do not require
the waste of staff time answering obviously loaded questions
so they can show how angry I am at a particular change. And,
well, apparently others agree with me that the insult had a
good, factual basis. You had a knee-jerk reaction to complain
towards changes you did not like, and you are unable to be
convinced otherwise. That, and you're raining on my parade.
I love this change. Also, you're making Valg jaded. He's
responded to me lately in what seemed like very curt manners
as though I'm a whiny forum poster, and I wanna make Valg a
happy Valg again, cause I know his frustration is probably
caused by dealing with posters like you on a daily basis.
Please, don't ruin our Imms, they work hard, and for nothing
at all.

In summary(*), you were rude and incessantly complaining about
a change, the worth of which reasonable minds can differ,
despite you not believing so. You selectively ignore points
that hurt you, and exaggerate ones that when stretched, help
you.

- Runaktla

(*) I was starting to pick out quotes from your posts one by
one and respond to how they support my point, but I couldn't
bring myself to spend 20 minutes writing something that I know
you will gloss over and ignore. Daevryn/Nepenthe's posts on
the other thread pretty much sum up what I dislike about you.

PS: "Geniuses have always been scorned and ridiculed"? lol
you never told me you were into comedy.

So I had a character, Bergborr, who was involved right at the very beginning of these shennanigans. I just wanted to apologize for being one of those early people who went inactive, and failed to help disseminate information about the goings-on.

Thanks to Simshipple Figliveryshins for the bag o' haste. Also, it was pretty cool to suddenly get presented with a "hit list". I'm all for having reasons outside the ordinary to PK some fools.

I wish I could have stuck with it as things kept rolling. School, unfortunately, is a bitch.

T

Although I also knew that this was something of a risk when choosing to engage a lower level character.. a lot of folks lose interest in a character in which they havn't invested much time yet. Yet in spite of all of Simshipple's efforts to flag down attention in Galadon, her efforts went ignored except by Bergborr.

Mostly all of that was "scene setting", so I had hoped at least Bergborr had gotten the opportunity to leak to other people some seed information about the Consortium, etc.

And I was Euvian, I just want to thank that sole person for really being fun I regret deleting that character, but those 20 or so hours are rather memorable simply due to the imm-eraction. Thanks.

That was thrown together hastily and I was worried it came across as such. I'm glad you had a good time with it, I know I had fun playing big meanie spider!

I could tell it was hastily done, but it was well done. I dont think my idea of the violet spider was expected, but you played off of it well. What did you have in mind for the big order mage? Simply curious.