I read a post a little while back that asked how long CF would last. That means someone out there thinks this game of ours that has provided an escape from the daily grind and thousands of hours of entertainment, is about to die. I don't believe that, we are at our height in so many things. Roleplaying is at a high, little things in the game keep getting better and better, ie room descs, echoes, combat echoes, balance, and just all around fun. But the fact that someone would mention that is a problem, one that we need to deal with. So I think we need some new direction, here goes.

This is an idea (well, stolen idea elabortated on) for a revamp to the game we all know and love. Please don't turn this post into a finger-pointing flame war. I'd like to see constructive ideas that we as a community can come up with and work on together. Both the players and the staff, because we are totally inseperable, despite some of the attitudes. Without one, we can't have the other, and more importantly, we can't have the game. So, here goes an idea(albeit somewhat stolen) of the Fourth Age of CF.

At the end of the Third Age, Valguarnera(or some equally knowledge/power hungry immortal being, maybe a sneaky move by Jullias???) steals the items of power from all the cabals. He runs off to another plane with them. Why, no one knows, could make for lots of interseting quests, and maybe even an underlying storyline. In any case, from the other side, he unleashes a terrible army on Thera, forcing former enemies to band together to defeat this world-destroying army. They flock to the major cities, because those are just the best places to go, and otherwise the idea won't work. After long years of fighting, the political landscape has changed, ancient secrets are lost, and Thera is changed, maybe not forever, but a major overhaul in any case. All of the cabals make a last stand of some sort and heroes and myths are created for the fourth age. The Inn is of course left standing because why would the god of knowledge destroy the greatest library in all the lands? In any case, five factions emerge, city states that now jostle for control of the denizens and lands of Thera. Things are now as follows....

The Kingdom of Galadon:

After the defeat of the Dark Armies(insert generic name for army bent on world destruction here) the heroes(PC's) of Galadon asumed control of the politics and forces of that massive city in order to promote safety and security for the city and surrounding areas(The Weald, Silverwood, and a small portion of the surrounding roads would all fall under Galadonian influence permamently, i.e. guards, scouts, various NPC's). They established a kingdom, running the corrupted mayor out of town and building a lavish tower/castle/keep over the site of the ruined Spire. Galadonians generally promote lawfulness and equallity, but have a streak of powerhungriness in their upper levels of government. There is often a King/Queen of Galadon, a Baron of both Silverwood and the Weald, and a Prince/Princess of Galadon. Barons cannot become King/Queen unless they depose the Prince/Princess at the time of succession, causing civil war and strife within the Galadonian realm. The Scepter of Galadon is kept locked under the throne and is guarded by the two best fighters of his Royal Bodyguard.

The Holy Realm of Voralia:

The Voralian City was a refuge for the many outlying villages and famrlands surrounding that pure city. They found strength and faith in the gods of light and the holy heroes that flocked to that city. After the defeat of the Dark Armies, the pious heroes formed a Council of the Righteous and elected a Lord Bishop from among their members. They established a state based on religous devotion and took the neighboring villages and roadways under their protection. The expanded upon the local cathedral and placed the Texts of the Pure in its highest tower to keep them safe, they are protected by the Humble Templar, who fights with the holy zeal of the gods of light. Voralians generally promote peace, but those that do fight often seek to destroy the dark forces that still plague parts of Thera. The Lord Bishop is served by three Cardinals and the Knight Commander of Voralian's military forces. The Knight Commander has only twice been elected the Lord Bishop, and both were in times of abnormal danger.

The Caliphate of Hamsah Mu'tazz:

Many who settled in the Desert City after the defeat of the Dark Armies were minions of those evil spirits or mercenaries who found the lawfullness and watchfull eyes of Galadon or Voralian City a bit uncormfortable. Those heroes who found refuge in the Sultan's city quickly banded together in a loose and power-hungry alliance and overthrew the Sultan, occupying his palace and pressing their will on the denizens of that colorful city, as well as the desert nomads and the peaceful men and women of Balator. With control of the Seaport, their influence often reaches Arkham. Citizens of the Caliphate generally despise the law and their intentions are often evil. A new Sultan rules those lands and his right hand man is the Vizier of Araile. The Marshall of Balator and the Admiral of the Royal Seaport are close advisors as well.

The Empire of the South:

Many heroes fled to the southern continent in the troubled times after the items of power were lost. Though the ravaging forces focused their efforts to the northwest, many great battles were fought at the gates of Seantryn Modan, and many heroes were made. At the end of the great war, the Empress was overthrown and lawlessness took over. After a terrible civil war, order was re-established and the Empire was restored. The surrounding forests and towns were brought under control of Seantryn Modan and thier sizable fleet pushed into the Western Aryth Ocean. The jade elves are now criminals, and many battles are fought in the jade mountains. The Modanites(?) are similair to the Galadonians, with slightly less respect for the law, and slightly more imperial ambition. The Emperor/Empress is advised by the Commodore of the Western Aryth, the Duke of Aturi and the Lord-Commander of Seantryn Modan. The Helm of the Empress is protected by the Blademaster of Seanrtyn Modan in the throne room of the Palace.

The Dominion of Udgaard:

A city often associated with evil, Udgaard lost some of that reputation as it was flooded with both arial and cloud giant refugees during the troubled times. However, warlike ways and a mistrust for the law are common among the citizen-soldiers of Udgaard. The fighting may have been hardest here, so many of the great fighters of the land ended up in Udgaard. Magi are distrusted here, as are priests. It is not uncommon for a young Lokian, as they are now called despite Loke's death early in the war, to make a pilgrimage to the sight of the ruined Village of Battleragers. The Warlord of Udgaard rules with an iron fist and is advised only by his two Lieutenants, who often fight to the death at the foot of the Warlord's funeral pyre to see who will succeed him. The Pieces of the Pillar of Legends are kept under guard of the Exectutioner of Udgaard in a tower of the Barracks at the north end of the city. Lokians are not much concerned with the politics of Thera, focusing on hunting and battling in the surrounding mountains. Though they often come into conflict with the Voralians in their common and bloody raids on peaceful Tir-Talath.

These factions now vye for control of the surrounding lands, often conflicting with eachother. I have ideas for zones of control, but need some time to work on them.

The Split of the Races

The races were affected as well. I can write up some background for them later. Their hometowns are now limited. All current racial hometowns still would be ok, I don't know them all. PC's could move, except the evil/good orderly/chaotic restrictions, but they would face possible penalties depending on where they move from/to.

Human- Well, not everyone is limited
Halfies- Same as humans except no half-drow in Voralian, no half-elf in Hamsah.
Woodelves- No change
Elves- Darsylon, Galadon, Voralian
Drow- Galadon, Udgaard, Hamsah, Underdark?
Storms- Galadon, Voralian
Clouds- Udgaard, Galadon, Seantryn(Clouds on Aryth right?) Arial
Fire- Kiadana, Hamsah, Seantryn, Arkham
Dwarves- Galadon, Udgaard, Voralian and racials
Duergar- Galadon, Udgaard, Hamsah Underdark?
Svirf- Galadon, Udgaard, Voralia, Cragstone
Gnome- Hillcrest, Voralia, Udgaard
Felar- Blackclaw, Galadon, Udgaard, Voralian, Hamsah
Arial- Arial, Udgaard, Galadon, Voralian
Orcs- Grinning Skull
Minotaur- Seantryn, Hamsah, maybe up their numbers

No evil in Voralian, no good in Hamsah, no orderly in Hamsah, no chaotic in Galadon, maybe no good in Udgaard, maybe no neutral ethos in Seantryn to reflect the civil war attitude.

Cabals, the future etc.

We can use this coming Fourth Age as advertisement too. "Prophets throughout Thera spout of the coming of a new age and a war to end all wars" "The lands will change forever" etc. Both in the game and on websites, forums, etc. The staff can promote big new changes without giving away any specifics. Once our player base is brought back, and hopefully enlarged, we can phase the cabals in with limited numbers and maybe a different dynamic in order to give the game some added flair a ways down the road, not to mention something for us veterans to reminisce about and get excited for. Rumors, whether we like them or not, always keep us coming around, "just in case." Just an idea, who else has some?

Those who are with Cabdru.

And those who aren't.

I know who's t-shirt I'm going to wear. And it says 'Lackey'

Yhorian.

It made for a good read anyhow and you did put some good thought into that.

Id like to see the cabals mixed up a bit, just for the sake of giving all us addicts a new mix to add to the cabal thing. One collosal war with two factions might be cool. Currently, I dont like how there are so many cabals but not enough numbers to maintain them all the time. With only two cabals, maybe there would be some huge 20 on 20 battles.

Especially with all the new anti ganking codes, having two cabals would turn into huge epic wars. I really did have more fun a few years ago when I played Scion and there was like 8 of us logged on. Raiding Fortress with 4 or 5 defenders and the Grove with equal numbers, it was pretty cool.

The last year its been pretty much 6 people logged onto one cabal at once, 1 or two in the oposing cabals, most dont show up to defend, and it makes for a lot of down time. Dont get me wrong, there have been some great fights in that mix.

Less cabals equals more direct fights.

Even if the IMMS hate this idea, which they probably will....how about giving us one mighty 6 month Epic War. Where the demons come out of the Abyss and the Angels from the heavens to wage war on Thera. Light vs Dark. Divide the land into two warring factions. If it is fun and successful, keep it going for a while...

We can always go back to same old same old...without disrupting things too much. Anything to add to the roleplay of the current players would be cool. I would volunteer my play time to work NPCs.

Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.

But the core group that really cared about RP long ago dwindled off to a select few.

RP peeked Early 21st centry after honest efforts were made buy each other to encourage it. Now it caters to a differet kind of player, I put it 60/40, who enjoys PK more than RP.

I offer that there is a substantial number of people who barely speak the English language (No despite some assertions I am not one of them) and thus they are not able to even participate in RP in a meaningful way. Thus they PK.

The Mentors are gone or going and tangible rewards are few. I evidence Bolen's rave reviews vs the amount of Exp he's gotten.

Heck even leadership possitions are recycled generationally it seems. There's only a handful of players left who are capable or willing.

CF is dwindling off because it appears that it is ignored that this is a text based game where people come to play out a fictional character, not just play doom. It has to compete on different fronts.

I like some of what I read in there though. Maybe, it you RP with as much intinsity as you write, you'll attract new blood.

>But the core group that really cared about RP long ago
>dwindled off to a select few.

I disagree here. From what I've seen it's more prominent now then ever.

>RP peeked Early 21st centry after honest efforts were made buy
>each other to encourage it. Now it caters to a differet kind
>of player, I put it 60/40, who enjoys PK more than RP.

What lead you to that?

>I offer that there is a substantial number of people who
>barely speak the English language (No despite some assertions
>I am not one of them) and thus they are not able to even
>participate in RP in a meaningful way. Thus they PK.

There are quite a few ESL people, however, some of them produce the better more developed characters, so in my opinion this assertion is also wrong. I'll use Grunlath and Dulmisa for examples of ESL player's chars.

>The Mentors are gone or going and tangible rewards are few. I
>evidence Bolen's rave reviews vs the amount of Exp he's
>gotten.

Role contest winners get tangible rewards. Each contest there are more and more entrants and apparently the judging gets harder and harder every time. Bolen did get a leadership position, which I would consider a tangible reward.

>Heck even leadership possitions are recycled generationally it
>seems. There's only a handful of players left who are capable
>or willing.

I had my first leader char recently, I also know of another player who is generally a bit more green in the hero ranks who also had his first leader. I think you underestimate the playerbase.

>CF is dwindling off because it appears that it is ignored that
>this is a text based game where people come to play out a
>fictional character, not just play doom. It has to compete on
>different fronts.

I think you get less of the "Doom" players than you would think, since if you really want a game of that style, what is really better than a graphical FPS?

>I like some of what I read in there though. Maybe, it you RP
>with as much intinsity as you write, you'll attract new
>blood.

Every one of his posts is a thinly veiled "I het ferners" type rant. Seriously.

2: Being Pro-American doesn't make me Anti-anyone.

3: If someone is of the opinion that their culture is superior (I've never said that but it's often inferred that I have) that's their prerogative...At least in the United States of America.

I don't like playing with Non-Native English speakers on a game that is based upon the English language. So I don't.

It's not a matter of Nationalism, it's a matter of, oh, there is such and such again. Or... What the hell did he just say? Or... Well there we have Russian #103 misconstruing what I said for the umpteenth time. Or... Trying to get into a philosophical discussion with someone who can't communicate a point satisfactorily.

Just as in real life I do not fit in and thus do not live in China-Town San Francisco, I don't hand around with people who I can't understand in the game.

I'd like to offer a challenge to anyone. Find where I have said that I feel the United States, or myself as a result of my nationality is superior to anyone else as a result of theirs.

I freely admit that if it's a matter if Them or us...Then They have to go, irregardless of who they are,. This is more along the lines of my sense of Darwinism and is a matter for debate not firmly tied to your assertion.

Pro

P.S. Considering what team I play for, I'm always suprised that people can't understand why I have so much passion about being an American.

It just seems lazy. Outside of the fact that I know of several ESL players you would never know were actually ESL folks. So you also sound ignorant.

Reading something and not trying to understand the message.

Where in did I say ESL was bad? I didn't.

What I said was not being able to communicate efectivly is.

Minotaur speech is a Game Mechanic and is the price you pay to play one. As garbled as they may be I can usually figure out what they are trying to say. (If they present it correctly.)

I would rather file my teeth down on a dremel tool than interact with people that say things like...

A gnome tells you 'my jaws will bite into your throat yesterday'

Far fetched? Nope, I understan that he's threeatening me, but it's presented in such an odd manner that it's hard to take seriously. What's more it only get's worse if you continue the dialog. At least that has been my experience.

Chinese Man tells you 'Greetings, how do you do today?'
GOOD

Chines Man tells you 'grope'
BAD

It's not a matter of nationality, it's a matter of conveying meaning and nuance.

"I don't like playing with Non-Native English speakers on a game that is based upon the English language. So I don't."

"Where in did I say ESL was bad? I didn't."

Heh, that's funny.

Anyways, I have to say that I agree with one point. It is about things getting misconstrued due to a language barrier. It does exist, no matter how anyone wants to ignore that it does not; in addition to the limited vocabulary on some folks that I have seen, there is also the fact that idioms and figures of speech don't usually translate well across cultures no matter how well you speak "English" (and there are a lot more of these than you think). This isn't an ideal thing to have happen in a text based game, but it is there. I have no idea how you can say it is not there.

That having been said, the fact that I don't enjoy not being able to communicate in the manner that I'd like to does not mean that the CF world's going to hell in a handbasket (that means going downhill, I mean, err, getting more badder). It just means that some of us might have to work harder to communicate in certain instances.

I do have to say though that I'd rather have some of these non-english speakers here then not. There are certain positive intangibles which go along with having different people from different timezones and different cultures all coming together to play on this thing. I think that it adds flare. So by my count CF is up to 16 pieces of flare.

"I don't like playing with Non-Native English speakers on a game that is based upon the English language. So I don't."

That's pretty clean cut.

Figure the meaning of that one out, Russkies!! ;-P

But what I could have said instead was this.

I don't like playing a text based game with people I can't understand. Put your own spin on that.

For me it is a very annoying trying to hold a conversation with a leader. When they have no idea what I'm saying or trying to say. Now is their Enlgish better than my Russian, Dutch or whatever else? Yes, but I don't attempt to pray a foreign game. Nor am I saying that they shouldn't play, but I do understand his frustration.

If it makes you feel better, his opinions regarding international players aren't shared by the staff. There's certainly a long list of international players I'd want to keep a lot more than him. We've had a number of ESL staff, and we've even done a little bit of international-aimed marketing.

How to read a Pro rant:
1) The difference is, when Pro goes OOC in-game, bitches some confused newbie out over the newbie channel, gets caught multi-ing gear to his other character, tries to slander a certain player's active character on forums, or mangles sentences so badly that Dr. Frankenstein, the cast of CSI:Grammar, and Miss Cleo have to be called in to reconstruct them, it's because he had a reason (such as "someone made him mad"), and I have to get 10 more "vlag; Why you not lkie me?" emails over it. If someone else does it, it's because they aren't American enough and are ruining CF for him.

2) Remember that only our Russian players have ever cheated. No American player has ever been caught cheating. Pay no attention to the actual composition of the "banned for cheating" list.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Perhaps if PRO wants to better the CF atmosphere, he should try correcting his spelling before making negative comments about ESL gamers. His communication barrier / frustration surely lies within himself. Just proofread some of his posts.

I remain

This says it all Valg.

I've sent one email to you with regard to your personal attacks against me. I have sent a couple emails with regard to grievances I've had. Count those on one hand.

You like to take the high ground? Then try not to be disingenuous about any interactions we've had.

Bitched at newbies over the channel? I hardly think so. If anything, I get torn up for being too talkative on the newbie channel. If I bitch over anything, it's when a newbie tears into a newbie or has a name like Bob. (Prayers have no affect.) I've had the newbie suspended for cracking jokes/eluding to names by you before, but I’ve always racked that up to your personal bias toward me. Oddly enough, I’ve gotten exp on a couple of occasions for being helpful. Your itchy trigger finger may be part of your perceived problem.

Moving on.

While my grammar might be imperfect, it's hardly unreadable. And since you are deliberately misconstruing the facts now, (You have to be since I have clarified my position on this repeatedly.) I've never bagged on anyone for bad spelling. Not now, not ever. I've only bagged on people that refuse to take the most basic steps to clarify the meaning and tone of a sentence they write. What’s more I wrote you an email stating I wouldn’t harp on that anymore. And I have held to that in spite of my opinion of people who chose not to.

Help me out, when did I say, now or ever, that any particular demographic doesn't cheat? When did I ever say I did something because someone made me mad? Again this is an out right lie.

Multi gearing to my other character? You mean picking up a Bronze belt a character I deleted an hour before dropped? Ya got me Valg. After 9 years of play, you caught me gear swapping a bronze belt in a room that every character I ever create visits on his way to gathering initial gear. You were practically rabid about that. Oh my how you hooted. And slobbered as you gechoed that. You made that what you wanted it to be.

Valg you do this to people that you disagree with. You slander them and push them into indefensible situations by snipping their comments, or deleting them out right. I never really believed it when I read it before, but now I have to believe it's true. Once upon a time I felt like you were harsh but fair. You are not, you are in fact harsh and unethical.




Now that I’ve stated that you are lying, and misrepresenting me., read the following….

I clearly stated that ESL had nothing to do with the quality of a player. Getting your point across in such a way that it's entertaining and communicates the nuance is.

That’s my stance.


The only reason this thread exists is because of a personal attack against me, one you support and o doubt exploited to suit your ends. This game is mine as much as it is yours, I’ve been playing it as long as anyone, and some changes have gone in as a result of my input. I’m not a detriment to this game, despite of your consistent misrepresentation of my stance on the direction I’d like to see the game go.

For the benefit of our newer players Valg has ad a personal vendetta against me since the days of Glimo. If you don’t know what that is, ask around on IRC.

What’s more, I was unaware that you speak for the entire staff with regard to my standing. Or perhaps you do. There’s enough buzz about the strangle hold you apparently have over the staff. So much so that I pick up on it despite I only peruse this sight and the other.

Before thread gets deleted, I ask that people search my name or Pro-man to get a feeling for the mood of my posts. I imagine this will result in my Banning but if you’re going to be honest, you’d see my gripes have always been my spin on what’s good for the game, not who’s bad.

Pro

Overall, you seem to think I care a lot more about your posts than I do. Oh, the drama.

I want the thinly-veiled bigotry re: foreigners to stop. It bleeds through in so many of your posts (and used to be much more overt until people started beating you down over it), and I'm not remotely the only one who notices this. We have an international playerbase, and if I have to make a choice between keeping many of them happy and keeping you happy, that's a very easy choice to make.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

But your personal attacks against me are unwarranted, what ever you want to read into my posts.

I'll refrain, and I ask that you do so as well.

You do have to admit, there are a few people whom are quite unintelligable, which you'd probably rather pull your teeth out than try to hold a long conversation with. I've always taken them for drunk though, does that make me anti-drunk? Anti-alcoholic? Man I'm a jerk.

These unintelligible folks are the cause of way too many headaches for me, too. The staff and those players consisently cry discrimination... but then there's been times they have also stated they get along in the game well enough they refuse to make an effort to be better about it.

It's annoying when someone is trying to insult you or vice versa and it goes completely over their head and appears to make them look stupid. It is infinitely more frustrating to have an ESL player try to be friendly and not understand the basic gist of what you're trying to say/ask and is annoying all around to watch them speak, occasionally even causing YOU to misunderstand them.

There's plenty of international players that get along fine with the rest of the playerbase because their grasp on English is at least as good as the American potheads that play the game, often better. All most of us want is that, and it's not a matter of discrimination, it's a matter of the language barrier and accepting it/not accepting it is not going to fix the basic problem that's always present and causes resentment and annoyances on both sides.

>I disagree here. From what I've seen it's more prominent now then ever.

I double Dog disagree. I see it in some brand newbies and try to encourage it, but it's few and far between. I've been hearing more and more OOC comments at all levels, people farming gear with out thought to their race/class/cabal. Let's go to A to get B comments. Got any spares? Nice eq!, LOL, and so on. Not to long bac, this wasn't happening.

>RP peeked Early 21st centry after honest efforts were made buy
>each other to encourage it. Now it caters to a differet kind
>of player, I put it 60/40, who enjoys PK more than RP.

What lead you to that?

People like, well you know who they are and there is a subset nationality that contributes as well. Maybe not over all, but in proportion to their numbers. The Aussies, Canadians and Americans were, once upon a time, huge contributers to RP. Most of the Vets seem to be gone and took with them their RP skills. There is for me, a noticable void. Even when I recognize a vet like Carlooth, I cant help but notice that nearly noone rises to his level or RP, even whn he is actively trying to promote/encourage it.

>I offer that there is a substantial number of people who
>barely speak the English language (No despite some assertions
>I am not one of them) and thus they are not able to even
>participate in RP in a meaningful way. Thus they PK.

There are quite a few ESL people, however, some of them produce the better more developed characters, so in my opinion this assertion is also wrong. I'll use Grunlath and Dulmisa for examples of ESL player's chars.

Can't speak for Grunlath, but Dulmisa was not a great RP character in my opinion. It was a good Character, but RP wise average. I think her mystique promoted a lot of this. I had no idea Dulmisa was a ESL player BTW, ut this would go a long way toward explaining why I personally didn't get a 'GREAT' vibe from here even though I thought it was a cool character.

>The Mentors are gone or going and tangible rewards are few. I
>evidence Bolen's rave reviews vs the amount of Exp he's
>gotten.

Role contest winners get tangible rewards. Each contest there are more and more entrants and apparently the judging gets harder and harder every time. Bolen did get a leadership position, which I would consider a tangible reward.

Role Contest winners are often good writers. How many go on to the PBF and show consistant Role Development or display quality interaction with other characters? I still stand by my assertion there are few mentors.

>Heck even leadership possitions are recycled generationally it
>seems. There's only a handful of players left who are capable
>or willing.

I had my first leader char recently, I also know of another player who is generally a bit more green in the hero ranks who also had his first leader. I think you underestimate the playerbase.

Good for you. That's two more to add to the Dirty 1/2 dozen.

>CF is dwindling off because it appears that it is ignored that
>this is a text based game where people come to play out a
>fictional character, not just play doom. It has to compete on
>different fronts.

I think you get less of the "Doom" players than you would think, since if you really want a game of that style, what is really better than a graphical FPS?

I think you're completely wrong. I get attacked for any reason you can think of. I personally don't attack with out some justification (Usually) but I wouldn't be suprised to get wacked even if it's a Storm and I'm an Elf Paladin. Might hav a little lee way there, but even still.. I just don't put it past a lot of players today.

>I like some of what I read in there though. Maybe, it you RP
>with as much intinsity as you write, you'll attract new
>blood.

At anyrate, It's well known that Ive only Hero'ed a singl Dwarven Paladin. But I've been around since 97 and I really do feel thee is a trend toward degeneration goin on.

I'm open to discussin evidence otherwise, but I'm hopefull that it's not going to become a campain of denigration against me.

>I double Dog disagree. I see it in some brand newbies and try
>to encourage it, but it's few and far between. I've been
>hearing more and more OOC comments at all levels, people
>farming gear with out thought to their race/class/cabal. Let's
>go to A to get B comments. Got any spares? Nice eq!, LOL, and
>so on. Not to long bac, this wasn't happening.

I don't want you to think I'm calling you a liar, because I'm not. I just find it hard to believe considering I play a fair amount, and it's difficult to believe that I haven't run into at least a single one of these piss poor rp'ers.

>>RP peeked Early 21st centry after honest efforts were made
>buy
>>each other to encourage it. Now it caters to a differet kind
>>of player, I put it 60/40, who enjoys PK more than RP.
>
>What lead you to that?
>
>People like, well you know who they are and there is a subset
>nationality that contributes as well. Maybe not over all, but
>in proportion to their numbers. The Aussies, Canadians and
>Americans were, once upon a time, huge contributers to RP.
>Most of the Vets seem to be gone and took with them their RP
>skills. There is for me, a noticable void. Even when I
>recognize a vet like Carlooth, I cant help but notice that
>nearly noone rises to his level or RP, even whn he is actively
>trying to promote/encourage it.

I'll hold over on this till the end.

>>I offer that there is a substantial number of people who
>>barely speak the English language (No despite some
>assertions
>>I am not one of them) and thus they are not able to even
>>participate in RP in a meaningful way. Thus they PK.
>
>There are quite a few ESL people, however, some of them
>produce the better more developed characters, so in my opinion
>this assertion is also wrong. I'll use Grunlath and Dulmisa
>for examples of ESL player's chars.
>
>Can't speak for Grunlath, but Dulmisa was not a great RP
>character in my opinion. It was a good Character, but RP wise
>average. I think her mystique promoted a lot of this. I had no
>idea Dulmisa was a ESL player BTW, ut this would go a long way
>toward explaining why I personally didn't get a 'GREAT' vibe
>from here even though I thought it was a cool character.

What defines a 'GREAT' char for you then?

>>The Mentors are gone or going and tangible rewards are few.
>I
>>evidence Bolen's rave reviews vs the amount of Exp he's
>>gotten.
>
>Role contest winners get tangible rewards. Each contest there
>are more and more entrants and apparently the judging gets
>harder and harder every time. Bolen did get a leadership
>position, which I would consider a tangible reward.
>
>Role Contest winners are often good writers. How many go on to
>the PBF and show consistant Role Development or display
>quality interaction with other characters? I still stand by my
>assertion there are few mentors.

All of the ones I've interacted with? They seem to put a lot into their characters initial development and either keep the momentum or delete and try something else.

>>Heck even leadership possitions are recycled generationally
>it
>>seems. There's only a handful of players left who are
>capable
>>or willing.
>
>I had my first leader char recently, I also know of another
>player who is generally a bit more green in the hero ranks who
>also had his first leader. I think you underestimate the
>playerbase.
>
>Good for you. That's two more to add to the Dirty 1/2 dozen.

I don't think I quite follow this response.

>>CF is dwindling off because it appears that it is ignored
>that
>>this is a text based game where people come to play out a
>>fictional character, not just play doom. It has to compete
>on
>>different fronts.
>
>I think you get less of the "Doom" players than you would
>think, since if you really want a game of that style, what is
>really better than a graphical FPS?
>
>I think you're completely wrong. I get attacked for any reason
>you can think of. I personally don't attack with out some
>justification (Usually) but I wouldn't be suprised to get
>wacked even if it's a Storm and I'm an Elf Paladin. Might hav
>a little lee way there, but even still.. I just don't put it
>past a lot of players today.

Again, hard to believe as it's something I haven't encountered.


>At anyrate, It's well known that Ive only Hero'ed a singl
>Dwarven Paladin. But I've been around since 97 and I really do
>feel thee is a trend toward degeneration goin on.

I'm not exactly new either. I started around 98'-99'. Took a break in 01' and didn't come back till 04'. I'm curious what you do play, if you've been playing that long and you've only hero'd one character? I'm not trying to sound conceited here, but I would consider myself a mentor of sorts, I've imm'd, I've hero'd 7 of the 14 classes and the others I've played usually into the mid 30's. I don't break character, I don't go OOC no matter how mad or frustrated I get. I try to develop an in depth character and it seems to me that the deeper characters and the newer players actually trying to RP well all gravitate towards each other. So I'm beginning to wonder if you aren't repelling people IC as far as interactions so that the only people willing to interact with you are the ones that you don't like. I don't really want you to take that as a personal dig, but it is possible you are part of the problem and as they say "you can't see the forest for the trees"

>I'm open to discussin evidence otherwise, but I'm hopefull
>that it's not going to become a campain of denigration against
>me.

Just as an aside, the game had actually begun to really stagnate around 2000 until a certain handfull(one in particular) of heroimms hit the ground running and really seemed to revitalize the staff and the game. So I don't see this as peaking at all, to me it seems like every few months, things go up another notch. But that's just my perspective.

Aarn
Drok
Vynmylak
Amaranthe in all her mortal and immortal incarnations.

One single encounter with one of Scarabeus's characters , Manish, left a permanent oment etched in my mine and sticks out for some reason I can't quite touch.

Cryssera and all her (His I got an idea who this is.) previous characters. Especially this player. talk about comitment.

Manden/Seechi and his current (Yeah I know who you are!)

Include Graatch/the first couple of Rogues Murderers, Isildur, DC and so on.

There have been a lot and you'll know them when you see them, the stand out that much, at least in my eyes.

I would never include myself on this list, nor would I say I have any characters of notable reputation. This s mostly due to me losing intrest in them. It's only been in the last two years that I've been able to play past a PK death, or a Death where another player was a witness. Odd I know.

That being said, I don't think that disqualifies me as an observer, only as a candidate.

But all flow charts have highs and lows.

I don't think it would be hard to make CF a much better place.

I try to be as positive as possible when reading the ideas. And it appears you put a lot of time and effort into this. This just doesn't seem like anything I could see as a productive change at all.

While the effort you took is appreciated in laying this out, that's
more of a Dark Ages of Camelot kind of game than what we're trying
to develop with Carrion Fields.

First, never say don't flame, there will always be people who will just because you say don't.

Second, you're screwing any outlander type character with this. They wouldn't flock to the cities. Afterwards, you're screwing rangers, druids and wood-elves, unless their city-state is going to be ummm... whatever the wood-elf place is called now. Even if that is the case, you're still knee capping them pretty good.

Third, this sounds kind of like forcing people into groups. What if someone wants to be completely non-aligned? Unless you happen to be a race that can be somewhere other than these places what can they really do, move to Tir-Talath? Maybe I'm just not seeing this right. Cabals are completely optional whereas these seem a bit less so.

Fourth, what about balance of the factions? Do you think this change is really going to populate Seantryn? You'd end up with two actual factions, Galadon and Hamsah, because being out in the boondocks blows. Then you'd have the other ones limping along.

I like that you gave it some thought, but my opinion is this is still a bad direction to go.

"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens." - Jimi Hendrix

If we were to go for a major direction change I would rather see the inherent racial politics take on a bigger role instead of just redistricted city-states.

Race wars rather than wars between cities, I say.

Race wars is probably a better idea, right until you throw humans into the mix. I can see elves banding together, gnomes, duergars, etc. but human diversity would break them into too many groups. Paladins sure wouldn't be fighting alongside necromancers whatever the cause. Of course considering they are the most populace of the races, that might not be a bad thing. I still prefer what we have now though.

"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens." - Jimi Hendrix

none