There is a lot of interesting potential with the class, but I had some problems.

People with out detect traps walked past them.

People walking over a trap would either avoid it or set it off without affect to them.

No way to tell if a Trap went off unless you were in the room. (Perhaps add an 'Alarm skill' later on that signals the trapper when the trap is sprung?)

The traps just didn't last long enough to set up a good 'Trapper strategy in the great majority of the cases.

Idea. Make trappers 'Create traps' that are physical objects that they can carry around and set where they want.

Perhaps have them be visible, but you can conceal them with a 'Conceal traps' skill.

More ideas to come latter. I have to go.

Some of my problems with trappers, with a good counter.
Just because i'm bored, and worked too long today.

The relatively fast decaying of traps, taking away
multiple damage-trap effectiveness.
(counter: Some damage trap ingredients do real good damage, might be overpowered)

Some trap ingredients are(were ?) either limited or almost impossible
to get, even in hero-range. The limitedness matters real little,
considering there are practically no trapper thieves high-ranked
enough to make use of em, or even get them. Makes me wonder
why they are limited in the first place. (counter: I answered my own
question, just.. dont bother limiting em.. please ?)

There are plenty of trapper ingredients scattered over Thera.
That is good. The majority that is findable are way too low
level. It is a nice novelty, it makes searching/finding them
worthwhile. Their usage is limited to practice your trap setting.
(Surprise me, tell me they are worth it, i'd love to be wrong on this)
(Counter: They add to the "wh00T, i found a trap ingredient" exploring
factor, and can be used to practice trap setting.)

Glow traps. It is a great idea. However: Thieves see the hidden
and have a good cost-effective detect invis means with
certain scrolls. This leaves glow traps mostly effective against rangers and transmuters.
Leaving the ganging option aside, a trapper will have not many
solo possibilities against a ranger in the wilderness. Weapontrip
might be effective against a transmuter.
However, having a third of the trap system based to mostly take
those two classes out of hiding might convince some people that
it isnt worth it.
(Counter: it works good in gangs)


The thing is:
Full trapper thieves have the closest thing to ranged weapons. It is a class with parry, dodge and shield block, and they can recite scrolls. To top it off, they can REMOTELY knock out, remove any concealment method, and damage people. Even if they get caught off-guard, their defensive skills will reduce their chance to dying
significantly. I think they dont need any upgrade at all, just perhaps a look at the glowing trap method, even the small malediction perks doesnt make it special.

All in all, I think trapper thieves are fine, except some of the
above points, which i'm sure shall be countered.
Just please remove the blacklaw guild's shoppie closing times ;)

I been awake too long again.

>Some of my problems with trappers, with a good counter.
>Just because i'm bored, and worked too long today.
>
>The relatively fast decaying of traps, taking away
>multiple damage-trap effectiveness.
> counter: Some damage trap ingredients do real good damage,
>might be overpowered)
>
>Some trap ingredients are(were ?) either limited or almost
>impossible
>to get, even in hero-range. The limitedness matters real
>little,
>considering there are practically no trapper thieves
>high-ranked
>enough to make use of em, or even get them. Makes me wonder
>why they are limited in the first place. (counter: I answered
>my own
>question, just.. dont bother limiting em.. please ?)
>
>There are plenty of trapper ingredients scattered over Thera.
>That is good. The majority that is findable are way too low
>level. It is a nice novelty, it makes searching/finding them
>worthwhile. Their usage is limited to practice your trap
>setting.
> Surprise me, tell me they are worth it, i'd love to be wrong
>on this)

You're so wrong I nearly spilled my drink.

> Counter: They add to the "wh00T, i found a trap ingredient"
>exploring
>factor, and can be used to practice trap setting.)
>
>Glow traps. It is a great idea. However: Thieves see the
>hidden
>and have a good cost-effective detect invis means with
>certain scrolls. This leaves glow traps mostly effective
>against rangers and transmuters.
>Leaving the ganging option aside, a trapper will have not
>many
>solo possibilities against a ranger in the wilderness.
>Weapontrip
>might be effective against a transmuter.
>However, having a third of the trap system based to mostly
>take
>those two classes out of hiding might convince some people
>that
>it isnt worth it.
> Counter: it works good in gangs)
>
>
>The thing is:
>Full trapper thieves have the closest thing to ranged weapons.
> It is a class with parry, dodge and shield block, and they
>can recite scrolls. To top it off, they can REMOTELY knock
>out, remove any concealment method, and damage people. Even
>if they get caught off-guard, their defensive skills will
>reduce their chance to dying
>significantly. I think they dont need any upgrade at all,
>just perhaps a look at the glowing trap method, even the small
>malediction perks doesnt make it special.
>
>All in all, I think trapper thieves are fine, except some of
>the
>above points, which i'm sure shall be countered.

Personally I think the path is about right, it just costs too many points. If the traps were really powerful I shudder to think of the intricate balance situations.

>Just please remove the blacklaw guild's shoppie closing times
>

That's an interesting point.

>I been awake too long again.

Nearly an excellent quote.

Q

>There is a lot of interesting potential with the class, but I
>had some problems.
>
>People with out detect traps walked past them.

That's going to happen.

>People walking over a trap would either avoid it or set it off
>without affect to them.

That's going to happen too.

>No way to tell if a Trap went off unless you were in the room.
> Perhaps add an 'Alarm skill' later on that signals the
>trapper when the trap is sprung?)

Maybe.

>The traps just didn't last long enough to set up a good
>'Trapper strategy in the great majority of the cases.

I also don't want them lasting so long that a small army
of trappers make the game unplayable by covering the roads
with traps. However, I'll take a look at it.

>Idea. Make trappers 'Create traps' that are physical objects
>that they can carry around and set where they want.

Maybe.

>Perhaps have them be visible, but you can conceal them with a
>'Conceal traps' skill.

Meh.

>More ideas to come latter. I have to go.

See you latter!

Q

Along the lines of a ready made Strike of faith.

Let's say you set multiple traps in a room. Each trap has a chance for setting off the remaining traps prematurely and thus rendering them ineffective.

1 goes off and sets off 2, 3 4.

Or

1 goes off, 2 goes off and sets off 3 and 4 prematurely

or

1,2,3 all go off and 4 is set off prematurly.

or all four function propperly.

Example: Jonathar enters a room and sets off a glowing trap, startled, he springs a burst trap, which inturn sets off a Knock out and a directional trap ruining them. Jonathar thanks his lucky stars he isn't knocked out and walks out to the east with out worrying about the other two traps.

When someone entered the room, they would be check for discharge in reverse order of being set and could be a mixeture or concentration of the different types of traps as desired by the Trapper.

Now for the down side.

A failed attempts to set a second or subsequent trap could have a chance to spring every other trap in the room but affects only the trapper.

There you go.