I had this thought a while back when tbe random-skill-gain-on-level-up thing went in and just never proposed it.

Why not, instead of getting a flat one skill % gain, base this off of INT and WIS? I've been thinking the actual % gain is based on WIS (like learn from mistakes?), so keep that.

I propose that similar to the random 1 - 3% gains (or however high it goes), that smarter races also receive a random number of random skill improvements. Say 1 - 3 possible random skill improvements, depending on INT.

This does a lot of good things simultaneously.

Chiefly, you improve the usefulness of int. Just as an example, at low ranks this would help low str/con warriors compete better with high str/con/(giant resist) warriors on merit of higher dex and less skill failure.

Second, you decrease skill spamming, which the imms have long touted as not very worthwhile anyway.

Third, you make invokers very happy that they don't have to spam spells quite so much. I would even be tempted to play a high int 5 path invoker with this change, simply because spell improvement would seem even less daunting than the affinity system makes it.

I would predict a small, but noticeable increase in the amount of smart races played. Skill boosts are a nice bonus, but there's no replacement for 25 strength.

So how about it guys? What do you think?

--Nightshade

Maybe make the target of a malediction loose mana when they successfully save against a spell or commune. Seems logical to me that if you manage to resist a spell it costs you mana, possibly proportional to the ammount that was flung at you. Then you can have int be a heavy modifier in determining the cost, higher int = less cost.

>
>Maybe make the target of a malediction loose mana when they
>successfully save against a spell or commune.

Doesn't that, mostly, just empower ganging?

> Doesn't that, mostly, just empower ganging?

I can think of alot of balance issues that this change would bring up that have nothing to do with ganging. So really, I think you meant to say "Doesn't this mostly shift the delicately controlled balance of our classes, while encouraging ganging?"

PS Does intelligence play a roll in spellbane? I never asked but I always wondered.

>PS Does intelligence play a roll in spellbane? I never asked
>but I always wondered.

Directly, no. Indirectly, yes, in a couple ways.

(Analogy: does high strength keep you from getting bashed? Directly, no, but it gives you the potential to carry more weight.)

But I don't think it would be too spoony to tell him that spellbane prolly goes up faster if you have higher int, like everything else in the game

>But I don't think it would be too spoony to tell him that
>spellbane prolly goes up faster if you have higher int, like
>everything else in the game

That'd be douche (no offense). Nepenthe isn't like that. What he said made me think about how it could matter if not directly. What you said was obvious - and thus invokes no thought. I have a few ideas of what he means, and I'm sure some percentage of them are on the right track :p

"I leave that to the exercise of the reader."
-A memorical misquote of something cool and shadowy Nepenthe once said

While what you're saying is true, it's only one of three or four things I had in mind.

I don't think this is a good idea. High INT races already benefit from learning skills faster then low INT races, if there was a move to make INT more valuable I would like to see it something that carries on to provide value at hero.

Your suggestion would increase the rate of skill/spell/sup improvements and thus widen the gap between low and high INT but as I mentioned in the previous thread this doesn't come into play much by hero and thus negates much of the benefit of the high INT. A change, along the lines of what Valg was talking about in the other post, that made it less practical for less INT races to practice all of their skills would seem to make more sense this way the high INT races will have an advantage at hero based on the fact that they should have more options available to them as they tend to have far more practices then they need and thus practice all their skills.

Eh, just my $0.02.

I don't think this is a good idea. High INT races already benefit from learning skills faster then low INT races, if there was a move to make INT more valuable I would like to see it something that carries on to provide value at hero.

I think INT makes a difference to a 100ish hour hero. They'll have significantly better skills all other things equal, in addition to the other benefits of more mana, dealing better with hostile mental stuff, etc.

The question is, what about a 200 hour hero? By that point, even the dumber races have eclipsed a big piece of the skill gap with anything they use reasonably often. It's an artifact of our skill system that the elf warrior who had 100% Sword at level 15.... is equally good as an experienced hero. And once this skill gap is gone, how useful are INT/WIS?

Some games approach this 'skill gap' issue by creating the Infinite Skill Treadmill. For example, skills could go up to 200%, with the difficulty of improvement increasing geometrically. On the plus side, that elf is forever loving his 25 INT. On the minus side, it creates an incentive to really, really spam, and a lot of games with these systems become consumed by them.

That's a big concern, which I think the 'many skill' system avoids. If Joe Fire Giant just plain skips Kick but Joe Elf throws a practice at it, the elf's higher INT manifests itself in a sensible way-- they know a greater repertoire of tactics and have more ways to approach a situation. (Granted, Kick? But maybe you're disarmed non-hand-spec and you know you have one command against a difficult-to-lag convulsing foe before he words/flees.)

The key may be to introduce more situational skills. As a healer example, think of Remove Paralysis. It's rarely useful, but the one day that your groupmate gets locked up with Neurological Disruption or an NPC's Hold Person, it's a powerful countermeasure. Ditto stuff like Miraculous Foresight which you can't practically use around the clock (very high mana/duration ratio)... but the day it works, you're going to be really, really pleased with it.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

20 int + 2 gains at % for skills on a level
22 int 3 gains
24 int 4 gains
25 int 5 gains
Maybe less

but this would give us none-spamming darkelves at a edge with skills like that are harder to improve.
My 2 cents

True it wouldn't help out much at hero, but anything to help not get bashed down by mithril toting level 15 bash specs, you know?

--Nightshade