Shouldn't this be something handled by the imms?

My problem is that, there's no way in game to tell someone, "Hey, I got pissed off and accidentally ripped the phoneline out of the wall" or whatever in character to your leader. Even if it happened more than once, its still a very out of character concept to log out.

I'm Ok with there being a guideline or chastisement regarding it, by an Imm, whom someone has the ability to go out of character with and duly explain themselves to where appropriate, but it seems nonsensical and even unfair to have to explain to someone in game why you logged out.

The modification to the Plaque regarding being clothed (prepared for war) when you enter the realms was suggested by Grogim while he was an Imm. The purpose isn't to prohibit you logging in/out as a ghost (though I can see that as one interpretation), but to make sure that when you do log in, you're not sitting at the pit naked while 5 Imperials are whaling on the Destructor. That's bad for you and for the Village.

Kastellyn the Devourer of Magic, Lord of Legends

Trying to be a good rager and follow that guideline can be very hard for a player who possibly doesn't have a lot of PK skill. Sometimes getting regeared can be hard, perhaps ranges are constantly poor, lots of gnome air/offense around and perhaps you are constantly outnumbered during play times. Doesn't really matter much to me since I can usually tackle a semi-regear, nor am I a big rager player or play roles that limit me much or force me to do something I don't want to. I just think disallowing a player who puts a sincere effort into playing a proper rager to log out when pissed (I often am after death) without compromising roleplay is a bit harsh.

nor am I a big rager player or play roles that limit me much or force me to do something I don't want to.

Good. I want a variety of different roles in the Village that fit in with the overall purpose but don't necessarily conform to what's been done before or what is considered "standard", though I'm fine with those roles as well.

I just think disallowing a player who puts a sincere effort into playing a proper rager to log out when pissed (I often am after death) without compromising roleplay is a bit harsh.

I'd argue that it is you, the player, who is pissed enough to log out, vice you, the character (though, granted, your character is probably pissed as well), which kind of makes logging out right after a death somewhat OOC.

I'd also argue that, even if you get full looted, you can always run your happy ass over to Tabershaw's and Aldevari and "regear" in about five to ten hours of game time (if there's nothing in the pit in the Village).

I'd also argue that you'll be that much less likely to rage delete (something I don't like seeing at all) over one death if I force you to spend just a bit of time getting a very basic set before logging out. This might be my rose-colored glasses talking, though.

Those are the basic reasons for that particular paragraph on the plaque. I will caveat all of the above by saying that I, personally, would never punish a Villager for logging out immediately after a death (and believe me, I know when that happens), unless they made it a habit. I'm also fine with the mortal leaders of the Cabal taking a different stance on this issue than me, and enforcing it as they see fit.

Kastellyn the Devourer of Magic, Lord of Legends

<i>I'd argue that it is you, the player, who is pissed enough to log out, vice you, the character (though, granted, your character is probably pissed as well), which kind of makes logging out right after a death somewhat OOC.<i/>

Logging out after death is totally ooc usually in my case. The big problem I have is that I sometimes get upset after a death, and do things that reflect poorly on my charachter. So, it might often result in better roleplay for me to log out for some twenty minutes, take a breath, and then get back in trucking.

Logging out is always OOC, if you ask me. We just mask it to look like something a character does IC at times.

I just gotta ask.... WTF???

Are they plagued for logging out as a ghost or is it a case by case basis?

1) I guess the concern is that the person is logging out as a ghost to avoid the risk of a 2nd death after the unghost period ends. The ghost period is 15 minutes. If you die, I don't think it's reasonable for us to mandate that you stick around for those 15 minutes, plus another 15 minutes or whatever if you are attacked shortly after ghost-dom has worn off.

2) That advantage, if any, is very small. You're talking about the risk that someone might try to PK you 15 minutes in the future coupled to any advantage the attacker would still have after 15 minutes of reboot. Many attackers wouldn't even re-attack a freshly unghosted victim, especially if they were responsible for the first death.

3) Other then that, I don't think it's terribly appropriate to bring it IC. If you see someone logging out every time they're outclassed (ghost or otherwise), maybe bring it to our attention, but keep in mind that you might not have a very broad perspective and that immediate action is unlikely unless prior issues have been noted. (We'd pursue it more aggressively if the person switched to a "safer" character, fwiw. But sometimes, people just need to go.)

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Though I could have sworn it was on the tapestry and not the plaque. I have honestly never heard of anyone attempting to penalize someone because of it though but thats what the whole debate arose from.

Right, there's a rule on the tapestry or some such in the Village that states you have to log in prepared to fight, and seems to elude to it being against the cabal rules to log in as a ghost or log in without being geared well.

While, I appreciate what you're trying to convey, I think its OOC since a leader by all rights has to enforce the cabal rules and at the same time, he cannot possibly have insight into the situation enough and the cabal member in question is incapable of really, really explaining themselves.

How about removing the rules about having to show respect for leaders from all cabal literature. I absolutly agree that a leader should be shown respect and if someone isn't showing respect there should be consequences. What bites my goat is the fact that leaders who are less experienced perhaps start bitching about you not showing enough respect.

What it boils down to is I think that a character should not be shown respect because they are a leader. They should be shown respect for what they did to become a leader. I personally think that since it is literally set in stone that you have to act a certain way towards a leader it can truly hurt some characters and can be used as a crutch for less deserving leaders.

One example off the top of my head to this effect is something like a dwarven leader of battle. A duergar villager should do more then pay lip service to such a character but should in most cases be rather disrespectful when not face to face with the dwarf. Thesde cases are rare but anytime I hear a leader say waaaaaaaa you gotta show me respect it says so in the magistrate library or in the war room it seriously makes me blanch.

So why not take it out of being a written rule and make leaders earn their own respect eh?

I don't particularly have a problem with that, as a general rule. I mean, your leader can opt to boot you for any reason.

I do understand where you are coming from though in some lights, because leadership often is "Who is the most skilled/knowledgable person who is frequently online?" and that to me is a huge distinction.

But, I still do believe leaders should be respected, and I'm ok with rules about it. I think leaders themselves should keep in mind though, that the power to induct is about more than skill, and keep that in mind when dealing with comrades.

In a world where Gods walk amoung us, and definately show favorites, and actually give patronage to certain factions...and where those gods are the ones that choose leaders.


If you do not respect the Leader (The position, if not the person in general), you are basically saying "The Gods of my cabal are ####ups to choose this person".

To show public disrespect to the God Chosen Leader, you are showing public disrespect for the Gods of the Cabal you serve. You are saying that YOU know better than they do, and that they are wrong, and you are right, and to hells with the fact that they are GODS and probably know more about the situation than you.

Especially in a situation of a LAW AND ORDER cabal where a distinct chain of command is pretty much mandated by the basic PURPOSE of the cabal, I don't see why it would be a good thing, IC or ooc, to allow every stupid magistrate basically yell to the world "Dalteric is a stupid moron and I'm smarter than he is!!!!!"

See how far you get as a magistrate if you sit on duty and yell that, because that is EXACTLY what you are doing if you do not show respect to the Mortal leader of Tribunal.


I won't comment on the village thing, because it's been far too long since I played a villager, let alone a village leader, and I know many of the internal rules have changed.


But I just don't see why an God-chosen leader should not be able to expect a certain lvl of respect from those he leads.


fine, you have the choice to not respect leader. Just as a tribunal has a choice to break the law whenever he wants. It might even be GREAT roleplay to do so.

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed for others, who are following their role, to boot you from the cabal for either offense, because that can be GREAT roleplay as well.

If you aren't helping your leaders lead, you are fit for leaderhip.

I've heard it a hundred times, I respect the rank, not the man.

The bottom line is a a hardy *shrug*

(#### if I care private, now DIG!)

Much like my peeve about Caps and Punct, this is a personal issue of yours. You gotta wait your chanc to take over if you think you can do better. Until then, fish or cut bait.