I probably sound like a broken record when it comes to WANTED flags, but breaking the laws has always been near and dear to my heart.

So now a suggestion: put a timer on being WANTED. Maybe make it fairly long, but if the mercenaries from the Spire can't be bothered to go rein in the WANTED then they just sort of forget that the outlaw was/is currently flagged.

From the Tribunal perspective, this would basically give them a kick in the pants to go actually do something about criminals running around loose.

From the outlaws perspective, if they were wily enough to avoid capture for long enough, they should get off scot-free...this time.

There are already some serious detriments to being flagged including out of range special guards attacking (which makes retrieval damned hard), various and sundry other guards attacking, even the Enforcer (and damn he hurts). Plus the experience loss and the con loss with a death. Just out of balance and fairness it seems like a justified move.

Right now there is only one way to get rid of a flag: death. There are ways around almost everything else thrown out there (deathblows get parried, called beasts can be dealt with, etc..) so why not this one?


I think from the game perspective it would be more interesting if there were MORE criminals for the Spire to hunt and this would likely encourage that to an extent.


Just an idea,
Friend of Bears.

So now a suggestion: put a timer on being WANTED. Maybe make it fairly long, but if the mercenaries from the Spire can't be bothered to go rein in the WANTED then they just sort of forget that the outlaw was/is currently flagged.

With there only being five areas in the entire game where the vast majority of Tribunals can actually bring a criminal to justice, and the effort required to avoid those five areas is pretty damn minimal, I think this would only encourage less interaction between Tribunals and criminals, as the criminals would have more incentive to sit on their ass in some out of the way place until their flag wore off.

From the Tribunal perspective, this would basically give them a kick in the pants to go actually do something about criminals running around loose.

Unless you're a Vindicator, that's not really your job.

There are already some serious detriments to being flagged including out of range special guards attacking (which makes retrieval damned hard), various and sundry other guards attacking, even the Enforcer (and damn he hurts). Plus the experience loss and the con loss with a death. Just out of balance and fairness it seems like a justified move.

These are more valid points to address. I agree that being WANTED as, say, a level 35 is ten times harder than being WANTED as a hero, for all of the reasons you mention above.

I think there are plenty of valid roles (outside of Outlander) that call for a character to be a criminal. Maran who put the slaying of evil above the law, Villagers who do the same with the slaying of mages, random flyto-murder gnome shifters, etc. I hate to see these types of roles either put on hold until Hero, or have the character suffer disproportionately for following their role throughout the life of the character. Maybe there could be some slight perks for those who have chosen to play a hardened criminal.

All that being said, being a criminal, or playing a criminal role, is always, always the choice of the character. I want the penalties for breaking the law to be harsh, and I would never advocate making life for criminals easy.

Kastellyn the Devourer of Magic, Lord of Legends

>So now a suggestion: put a timer on being WANTED. Maybe
>make it fairly long, but if the mercenaries from the Spire
>can't be bothered to go rein in the WANTED then they just sort
>of forget that the outlaw was/is currently flagged.
>
>With there only being five areas in the entire game where the
>vast majority of Tribunals can actually bring a criminal to
>justice, and the effort required to avoid those five areas is
>pretty damn minimal, I think this would only encourage
>less interaction between Tribunals and criminals, as
>the criminals would have more incentive to sit on their ass in
>some out of the way place until their flag wore off.

The ass-sitting is what makes me not like the timer, but then
I've forgotten why killing yourself makes you any less a criminal
in the eyes of the law.

>I think there are plenty of valid roles (outside of Outlander)
>that call for a character to be a criminal. Maran who put the
>slaying of evil above the law, Villagers who do the same with
>the slaying of mages, random flyto-murder gnome shifters, etc.
> I hate to see these types of roles either put on hold until
>Hero, or have the character suffer disproportionately for
>following their role throughout the life of the character.
>Maybe there could be some slight perks for those who have
>chosen to play a hardened criminal.

Maybe there's something to be done with the 'hardened' aspect
of criminality.

>All that being said, being a criminal, or playing a criminal
>role, is always, always the choice of the character. I want
>the penalties for breaking the law to be harsh, and I would
>never advocate making life for criminals easy.
>
>Kastellyn the Devourer of Magic, Lord of Legends

Totally agree, with the mild caveat that I might advocate
making life for hardened criminals less hard.

> I hate to see these types of roles either put on hold until
>Hero, or have the character suffer disproportionately for
>following their role throughout the life of the character.
>Maybe there could be some slight perks for those who have
>chosen to play a hardened criminal.

If I understand the system now, you become a hardened criminal only after a certain number of flags (not sure how many). Part of what I was thinking of was making it a bit easier to get more flags without having to die each and every time, given how incredibly easy it is to get a flag. Part of what you mention is what I was trying to figure out how to deal with; playing a law-breaking role sub-hero rather than miraculously becoming an outlaw once the damage was simply con loss.


>All that being said, being a criminal, or playing a criminal
>role, is always, always the choice of the character. I want
>the penalties for breaking the law to be harsh, and I would
>never advocate making life for criminals easy.

I don't think I'd advocate it being easy either, just something this side of completely annoying as a sub-hero. I kind of like the idea of being an outlaw to be a rarer role rather than completely run of the mill.


A comparison came to mind; how would a Tribunal like to have trepidation or bioempathy a permanent flag on their character until death? It'd suck I imagine, making retrieval/raiding much harder; kind of like being WANTED

The Friend of Bears

Seriously.... Please explain to me how horribly unfair it would be so that I can be educated as to the plight of the "other side".

In the law enforcement community we have something called tolling. Warrant normally have an expiration date and at the end of that date they are discarded. So how about we give tribunals a toll power. This power goes to provincials, provost and justiciars. What it does it gives them a chance to decide once every 75 hours?, if a case should be tolled. In example they may want to toll that hero battle rager that has been wanted forever, but not the level 10 guy who got caught looting. If that warrant was not tolled then it would expire naturally based on several factors.

Easy. Anytime a trib engages that criminal their WANTED timer extends as the tribs are reminded of their crimes. Same if they go into towns and guards attack them, the timer extends. This person would have to do some serious avoidance for a WANTED flag to wear off. But i think this boils down to you guys just don't want to bother. So i'm sure we'll see other reasons why it can't/won't be done.


Cheers.
Jhyrb.

Maybe WANTED flag could expire, as it could be seen that Spire forgets the crime as the magistrates of that time retire. Maybe it could be made so, that the flag would expire after the magistrate who placed the warrant is booted or deletes/age dies/con dies and two other magistrates are booted or deleted after him.

Maybe make it fairly long, but if the mercenaries from the Spire can't be bothered to go rein in the WANTED then they just sort of forget that the outlaw was/is currently flagged.

From the Tribunal perspective, this would basically give them a kick in the pants to go actually do something about criminals running around loose.




First off, not everyone joins the Spire to become a Mercenary for the spire. Sure, that is a valid role, one I have even played, but there are other valid reasons for pcs (and npc's) to join the spire that would not make sense with this change. The first I can think of, is an overriding desire to see Justice done. I don't see any magistrate or mob wanting justice just "forgetting" who is a criminal. Even after a week/month real time.

Second, many tribunal roles don't necessitate going out of town to hunt criminals at all, and these are valid tribunal roles. Keeping Order in their city/cities is their goal. You seem to be under the impression that these types of tribunals aren't doing their job when they don't go out hunting criminals, but the way the Spire is set up, an argument can be made that they aren't doing their job IF they go out hunting criminals.

There are ways to commit crimes and not get caught. There are ways to deal with being wanted. Since outlander came in, and the abundance of non-city sources for preps/food/water etc. it shouldn't be hard on a hardened criminal to stay criminal without dealing with tribunal for weeks real time. I've played those roles too.

As for outlanders needing to retrieve, I don't think it breaks any tenents of a majority of valid Outlander roles to keep yourself from being made wanted for the sole purpose of making it easier to defend. You don't *HAVE* to be a criminal at all except for a few narrow roles.

I just don't see the imms making such a change to benefit such a small, narrow, range of roles while I can't see it benefiting anyone else (I think the balance is fine how it is)

If you love to play only those roles, and it sounds like that's what you've said, I think it might even help you as a player to learn better how to deal with being wanted, and how to get around getting wanted in the first place.

It's not that hard being WANTED at all, save for the retrieval thing. I have not argued that. But that was part of the point, if it's not hard being WANTED and the Spire isn't trying to track you down, then why shouldn't it eventually go away? As it is now it's essentially a permanent flag on your character with no effort on the part of the Spire to maintain it.

They place it and ignore it. You however have to keep dealing with it for as long as you stay alive. Not to mention that it allows out of range pking and looting. Have you ever wandered into Hamsah when flagged? Not pretty.

My argument is there should be some reward for being able to avoid getting caught and punished.

Plus, your PBF could rack up the number of WANTEDS without you having to die an equal number of times.

By the way, it's hard to avoid getting flagged when you subvert guards or trespass into the Spire. Heck I could get flagged for attacking the Captain at the same time the Tribunal are attacking the Spirit because they haven't techincally placed the fetish. It would be fun to know that you could do it and if you were sharp enough, you could outlast the flag.

Just an idea from the Friend of Bears

I am a Bail Bondsman/Bounty Hunter. As such, I can travel all around the United States in order to apprehend a Fugitive. I can assure you, that even if YOU forget you have to answer to the Law, the Law doesn’t forget and I damn sure won’t.

I just got back from Nevada where I apprehended a ####-head who thought if he went to the middle of ####ing nowhere all would be forgotten and forgiven. I manacled him to my door and drove non-stop (Save for Gas) back to Missouri.

He said to me, ‘I can’t believe you’re driving 3,000 miles for a 2,500 dollar bond.’

To which I said, ‘I’m not, I’m driving 2,500 miles on a principle. I said you couldn’t go anywhere I couldn’t find you and I’m not going to let you make me a liar. That and you are a ####-head.’

Moral of the story: If you don’t want a visit from your local Vindicator, don’t break the ####ing Law.

Newsflash: This isn't real life. It's a game.

In real life, we don't want criminals. That's why we pay you to assume your merry and modest role in the criminal justice system. In this game, on the other hand, we WANT criminals. Because life gets boring when it becomes too onerous to break the law. Perma-Tribunals like Odrirg have no one left to fight. Things get stagnant. Things get boring.

Your post and Odrirg's post are basically the reason why it is too frustrating to play an Outlander. Because you two have never played one and still, despite your total and complete ignorance, feel well enough informed to spout off baseless opinions on the relative difficulty of raiding/retrieving from Tribunal while wanted.

Everything you have said does not hold true with me.

Nuff said.

Having had a Sylvan Captain and about three other sylvans I'll say this. I haven't yet tried outlander. When I dealt with tribunal, they had significantly less deadly powers. Therefore, weigh that out.

1) Sylvan, as outlander does, oppose Tribunal. If you are an Outlander, or were a Sylvan, not raiding Tribunal is not a really viable option. Not being a criminal, as an Outlander/Sylvan, is/was not really a viable option. To play an outlander in true fashion, relatively requires you to be wanted. Someone truly free of influence from laws should be. Someone who wishes to collapse civilization should not be dodging flags or fearing getting WANTED.

If you disagree with that above statement, I'm going to say you have never played a real sylvan or outlander. By "real", I mean one that stays in the cabal to hero range for some period of time. I know you usually delete fairly early with your characters, which is why I mention this. Its viable for a level 35 outlander to not raid for the Scales. It is not viable for a level 51. It would be like playing a Maran who didn't raid Empire.

2) As a Tribunal, you are never, ever required to take the Fetish, unless this has changed some time recently. Having had a vindicator and 4 magistrates, I can say with an air of certainty, that I was never forced to raid. You were encouraged to retrieve, but typically there was less pressure on it than other cabals, probably because you didn't lose many powers without the Scales. Therefore, your level of committment to raid situations was entirely voluntary. You had to defend, but given the layout of the Tribunal cabal and special guards, this was typically one of my favorite things to do. This specifically is what makes sequester seem overpowered to me. If things go badly in a tribunal raid, you're getting bounced between sets of aggro guards and the only real way to get out is wording. Not having the ability to do so, means you have to hope to flee past all of them without getting bashed down or killed some other way in the process. Given the layout with the stairs, fleeing out of the tribunal HQ on foot is a pain in the ass if you're fleeing out of the inner guardian, because people can sit in the rooms with guards and bounce you around like a pinball.

3) Outlanders cannot use money. This is somewhat important to remember too. So if you get the snot kicked out of you by guard NPC's its significantly harder to heal up.

4) Classes like rangers and druids are severely hamstrung already when raiding Empire and Tribunal. This is important, since these are two of the cabal's "primary" classes.

5) Being wanted severely hampers chasing people.

6) Being wanted severely hampers sneaking up on people who aren't in the woods.

7) Out of range tribunals can manacle you, thereby sequestering you. This is very, very powerful if you time it properly. Especially combined with people who have entwine or cutoff.

The only, ONLY reason I found it still doable to be a Sylvan was the fact that many/most Tribunals are new to the game. Despite that, it is definately more of a pain in the ass to have to deal with being permanently WANTED than it is to avoid raiding while full moons are out.

Wish I had the ability to get the pbf, but I have played outlanders. And I had fun with them.

The most fun I had as one was my first one Rhaebryn. (I think that was his name) a REALLY asshole evil ranger.

I HAVE played both sides of the coin. And seriously, I've found:

Insects (no sleep/no rest/damage per tick...oh yeah, no transport) +
thornheart (more damage per tick) +
spores (-mana per tick) +
sunray +
entangle(-dex, half mv) +
thorns +
spike growth(even more -dex) +
trepidation (ubber non-regen in wilds/massive mv cost for walking) +
NO defenders =

Harder to deal with than

wanted
Manacles +
2 guards +
1 defender



Not to mention retrieving. As a non-criminal there is no cabal easier to retrieve from than tribby. now, granted, while wanted it can be a bitch if to retrieve if there are defenders on. But then again, it can be a bitch to retrieve from outlander not knowing if there is some chamo druid going to call the hunt on you, or some camo ranger going to snare you, etc.


So I'd kindly ask you to pull your head out your rear before you accuse me of not having any idea and forming baseless opinions.

>Wish I had the ability to get the pbf, but I have played
>outlanders. And I had fun with them.
>
>The most fun I had as one was my first one Rhaebryn. (I think
>that was his name) a REALLY asshole evil ranger.
>

Yeah. I wish you had the ability to get the PBF, too. Did Rhaebryn even hit hero?

Forget it. I did say "any Outlander", and that's good enough to prove me wrong. If you claim that your sub-40 ranger raided Tribunal with the best of them, I'll take your word for it and apologize.

No, Rhaebryn never "raided with the best of them". He was more interested in making steaks of people and lieing to people than spending time out of the wilds fighting a symbol of a completely ineffectual lifestyle.

But I did say he was my favorite outlander that I played.

And I'm not sure, but I *MAY* have at least *IMPLIED* that the name Rhaebryn might not be taken as a complete list of my outlander experience.

Way to prove your point by arguing against the messenger instead of the message. Did you address any of my points on the relative pure maladictive powers of the inners? No, you decided to get personal instead.

Way to score debate points, hoss. You remind me of the character Job in the recent "Arrested Development" episode.

Michael tells Job his idea is stupid.

Job sais it is not, then sais "You're stupid".

Top form there, Balrahd. I know that debate technique is used most often on these and other forums, and I know I'm using it now in retaliation, but try to address the actual points that go behind an opinion next time, instead of just attacking someone for having the opinion.

>Way to prove your point by arguing against the messenger
>instead of the message. Did you address any of my points on
>the relative pure maladictive powers of the inners? No, you
>decided to get personal instead.
>


OK. Since you asked:

1. I think your comparison between retrieving against Outlander v. against Tribunal is completely invalid for the following reasons:

1.i. You compared raiding the Outlander inner vs. retrieving from the Tribunal outer. Obviously it will be easier to retrieve than to raid.
1.ii. I've seen tons of people die while retrieving from Tribunal while wanted. I've never -- let me repeat, *NEVER* seen ANYONE dumb enough to die against the Outlander inner while unopposed. In my mind, this further discredits your assertion that it is more difficult/dangerous.

2. I think your assertion that a "majority" of Outlander roles can be pursued without being WANTED is also invalid for the following reason:

2.i. I've been playing characters in that cabal for far longer than you have. If you actually manage to hero an Outlander, you will find out that the Imms actively encourage you to raid Tribunal. As you know, that means you will be flagged. Good luck telling the cabal Imms/Leaders that you don't want to raid Tribunal because you don't want to be flagged. If a "majority" of roles agreed with that response, Outlander would be a greatly diminished cabal.

3. I think your experience as Rhaebryn does not qualify you as a fully informed person for the following reasons:

3.i. Rhaebryn did not pass level 40.
3.ii. AFAIK, Rhaebryn never faced Tribunals at the inner guardian (Executioner). I am almost certain this never happened, because believe me, you, as a human ranger, would find this experience very enlightening. (Obviously, I never heard of your character before you said you played him, so I cannot verify this).

4. I think that limiting the discussion of balance to retrieving/raiding Tribunal as an Outlander invalidates the debate for the following reasons:

4.i. Tribunal only has ONE cabal enemy. Outlander has TWO. Outlander SHOULD have the powers to represent this further challenge.
4.ii. Outlander's other cabal enemy is also in a large, civilized area protected by a 5-15 guard mobs. Being wanted makes retrieving from Empire just as difficult, if not more than from Tribunal. If you were wanted as Rhaebryn, you would have noticed this. Because it's particularly challenging for a human ranger sub-40 when you add in centurions.
4.iii. Tribunal is open to every race except two (orcs and wood elves). Tribunal is open to every class. Outlander, on the other hand, face far more restrictions on membership. Tribunal has no RP restrictions on actions. Outlander, on the other hand, face far more restrictions, more than any other cabal except Battle.

5. Finally, I challenged your opinion, personally, because (1) I did not believe you had played a Outlander long enough to experience the full weight of these various drawbacks, and (2) I found your assertions about Outlander, namely that a majority of the roles would allowing purposefully not raiding Tribunal so you can avoid a warrant, to be inaccurate.

6. I called you out, personally, because I actually feel a strong sense of frustration and irritation at reading posts like yours. This is why I don't play Outlanders.

7. As for this:
>Top form there, Balrahd. I know that debate technique is used
>most often on these and other forums, and I know I'm using it
>now in retaliation, but try to address the actual points that
>go behind an opinion next time, instead of just attacking
>someone for having the opinion.

Try not to be a hypocrit when you are trying to be condescending. I already apologized.

Here's a classic example of why your comparison of the guardians is completely invalid. These guys are quality players, well skilled, and keep in mind they are completely unopposed.

Things to keep track of:
1. Executioner dirt/disarms.
2. Can't pick up weapons once disarmed because of manacles.
3. Manacles prevent magical transportation.
4. "T" set up at the Executioner makes it extremely difficult to walk out.
5. Executioner calls guards, all of which will assist and make it even more difficult to walk out.
6. Manacles makes you tank like a brick.
7. Always count on the Tribbies full looting with their U-Haul trucks while you helplessly watch, hindered by manacles.

Conclusion: The "relative pure maledictive powers of the inners" is an irrelevant distraction. Hence, I strongly disagree with you.

Here's the log:
manacle urog
They aren't here.

<820/832><440/440><631/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
u
The Altar of the Blood Tribunal


A pit for sacrifices is in front of the altar.
The gray stone altar of the Blood Tribunal is here.
(WANTED) Urog is here, fighting the Blood Tribunal executioner.
(WANTED) Veulios is here, fighting the Blood Tribunal executioner.
The Blood Tribunal executioner stands before you, a grimace on his face.
(White Aura) A muscular old human in healers robes is here.

<820/832><440/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
manacle urog

Veulios utters the words, 'diesilla barh'.
Veulios thrusts his hand forward as a brilliant shaft of lightning lurches towards the Blood Tribunal executioner.
Veulios's lightning bolt MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
You slap the manacles on Urog.

<820/832><365/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
manacle ve

Urog's brilliant radiance MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Urog's chaotic blast MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Urog's chaotic blast MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's acidic bite *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's acidic bite *** DEVASTATES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's black light MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
The Blood Tribunal executioner's slash misses Urog.
A special guard comes to the Blood Tribunal executioner's aid!
Veulios yells 'Help! I am being attacked by the special guard!'

<820/832><365/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
guardcall

Veulios utters the words, 'diesilla barh'.
Veulios thrusts his hand forward as a brilliant shaft of lightning lurches towards the Blood Tribunal executioner.
Veulios's lightning bolt *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
You slap the manacles on Veulios.

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
Urog chuckles politely.
Urog's brilliant radiance MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Urog's chaotic blast *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Urog's chaotic blast MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's black light *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's acidic bite *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's black light *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
The Blood Tribunal executioner's slash MANGLES Veulios!

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
Urog's circle stab === OBLITERATES === the Blood Tribunal executioner!

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM> You shout 'Guards! Guards!'
Two guards come to your rescue!

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
The special guard yells 'Urog is a CRIMINAL! PROTECT THE INNOCENT!!'
The special guard yells 'Urog is a CRIMINAL! PROTECT THE INNOCENT!!'
The special guard DISMEMBERS Urog!
The gods protect Urog.
The gods protect Urog.
The special guard's slash scratches Veulios.
Urog's brilliant radiance MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Urog's chaotic blast MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's black light *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's black light *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
The Blood Tribunal executioner's slash MASSACRES Urog!
The Blood Tribunal executioner's slash MANGLES Veulios!
A special guard comes to the Blood Tribunal executioner's aid!
Urog yells 'Help! I am being attacked by the special guard!'

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
manacle Veulios!
They aren't here.

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
manacle Veulios
That person is already bound by shackles.

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
The gods protect Urog.
The gods protect Urog.
The special guard's slash scratches Veulios.
Urog's brilliant radiance MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Urog's chaotic blast MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Urog's brilliant radiance MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Seizing upon a flaw in the Blood Tribunal executioner's tactics, Urog swiftly kicks it!
Urog's kick MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's black light *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's acidic bite *** DEVASTATES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's acidic bite MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios is blinded by the dirt in his eyes!
+++DIRTED+++
The Blood Tribunal executioner's kicked dirt scratches Veulios.

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
The Blood Tribunal healer closes his eyes for a moment and nods at you.
You feel righteous.

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
get all pit
You get a jeweled dagger from the donation pit.
You get an opal ring from the donation pit.
A pale white skull ring: you can't carry that many items.

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
By causing the Blood Tribunal executioner to flinch, Urog lands an extra strike!
Urog's sucker hit MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
i
You are carrying:
an opal ring
a jeweled dagger
some loganberries
a pair of rothe-hide leggings
a small iron key
a scrap of paper torn from a book
an iron chest key
a silver necklace
a large saddle bag
an iron-studded collar
a pair of clawed war gauntlets
( 2) the Axe of the Executioner
(Invis) a black potion
(Glowing) a shirt of shining silver chain
a potion of returning
(Glowing) a feather of levitation
a metal canteen insulated in a wolf's pelt
a fat purple berry

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM> Minnaus: No centurions
The gods protect Urog.
The gods protect Urog.
The special guard's slash scratches Veulios.
Urog's brilliant radiance MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Urog's brilliant radiance *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's black light *** DEVASTATES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's acidic bite misses the Blood Tribunal executioner.
Veulios's acidic bite *** DEVASTATES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
The Blood Tribunal executioner's slash MASSACRES Veulios!

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
put all bag
You put an opal ring in a large saddle bag.
You put some loganberries in a large saddle bag.
You put a small iron key in a large saddle bag.
You put a scrap of paper torn from a book in a large saddle bag.
You put an iron chest key in a large saddle bag.
You put a silver necklace in a large saddle bag.
You put an iron-studded collar in a large saddle bag.
You put a black potion in a large saddle bag.
You put a shirt of shining silver chain in a large saddle bag.
You put a potion of returning in a large saddle bag.
You put a feather of levitation in a large saddle bag.
You put a metal canteen insulated in a wolf's pelt in a large saddle bag.

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
get all pit
l
You get a pale white skull ring from the donation pit.

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM> By causing the Blood Tribunal executioner to flinch, Urog lands an extra strike!
Urog's sucker hit MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
The Altar of the Blood Tribunal
The stairway ends at the peak of the Spire, perhaps thirty feet below the
huge stained-glass window at the top. The moonlight filtering through the
glass bathes the room in a scattering of light and shadow. Against the flat
northern wall stands the Altar of the Blood Tribunal, reflecting the light
back at you. On the wall to either side of the altar are elaborate carvings
in the stone, lined with silver and gold. Ornate archways lie to the east
and west, leading into small alcoves in the corners of the Spire, while the
twisting stairway leads downward, toward the base of the Spire.


A pit for sacrifices is in front of the altar.
The gray stone altar of the Blood Tribunal is here.
A special guard from Galadon is here, enforcing the Law.
A special guard from Galadon is here, enforcing the Law.
A special guard from Galadon is here, enforcing the Law.
A special guard from Galadon is here, enforcing the Law.
(WANTED) Urog is here, fighting the Blood Tribunal executioner.
(WANTED) Veulios is here, fighting the Blood Tribunal executioner.
The Blood Tribunal executioner stands before you, a grimace on his face.
(White Aura) A muscular old human in healers robes is here.

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
The special guard's slash grazes Urog.
The gods protect Urog.
The gods protect Urog.
The special guard's slash scratches Veulios.
The special guard's slash scratches Veulios.
Urog's brilliant radiance *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's black light *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's acidic bite *** DEVASTATES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
The Blood Tribunal executioner's slash MASSACRES Urog!
The Blood Tribunal executioner's kick maims Veulios!

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
l veu
Glowing crimson eyes peer forth from a narrow face of sharply cruel features.
Long silvery hair hangs down over the left side of his face, ending halfway
down his chest. The right side of his head is cleanly shaven, revealing a
myriad of intricate crimson symbols tattooed into his ebon skin. His black
armor while dull seems to be in good repair, with leather at each joint to
keep his movements silent. The craftsman ship of the armor is certainly
better than can be found at just any town smithy, the metal shaped to mold
itself to his lithe frame. His long fingered hands unconciously rub a long
hilt protruding from beneath a large cape, almost a caress.
Veulios, a male dark-elf, is covered with bleeding wounds.

Veulios is using:
<worn on finger> a fire opal ring
<worn on finger> (Glowing) the Heart of Brimstone
<worn around neck> an ivory amulet shaped like a troll
<worn around neck> (Glowing) an unholy symbol of the Spider Goddess
<worn on body> (Glowing) (Humming) a suit of darkened platemail
<worn on head> (Glowing) (Humming) a darkened helm
<worn on legs> (Glowing) (Humming) a pair of darkened leggings
<worn on feet> (Glowing) (Humming) a pair of darkened boots
<worn on hands> (Humming) the blademaster's gloves
<worn on arms> a plain phylactery
<worn about body> (Glowing) (Humming) the cape of living flames
<worn about waist> a girdle of giant strength
<worn around wrist> the Bracelet of Charms
<worn around wrist> a wide copper bracelet
<wielded> a drake-scaled flail named, 'Crimson Slumber'
<dual wield> (Glowing) (Humming) the Axe of Dissolution

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
By causing the Blood Tribunal executioner to flinch, Urog lands an extra strike!
Urog's sucker hit *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
The special guard's slash DISMEMBERS Urog!
The gods protect Urog.
The gods protect Urog.
Urog's brilliant radiance MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Urog's chaotic blast *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's black light MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's acidic bite *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's black light *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
The Blood Tribunal executioner's slash MANGLES Veulios!
The Blood Tribunal executioner's slash MASSACRES Urog!

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 10 PM>
l urog

By causing the Blood Tribunal executioner to flinch, Urog lands an extra strike!
Urog's sucker hit *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Darkness coalesces about this ebony-skinned dark dwarf. Two pinpricks of
lurid light hang and sway heavily within two sunken, bleary eyesockets.
A slothenly smirk plays at the corners of two large, dingy lips. A stained
beard, albeit well-trimmed, hangs dismally about the ebon face. A contoured
scalp devoid of hair gleams dismally against the gloom.

A short, agile frame slinks quietly in place, allowing view of thinly
muscled arms and deft, buoyant legs. Thickly veined, calloused hands suggest
a profession requiring nimble fingers, confirmed by the lustful, greedy
look of this duergar.
Urog, a male duergar, is gushing blood.

Urog is using:
<worn on finger> a fire opal ring
<worn on finger> a pitch-black ring
<worn around neck> an amulet of the Viper
<worn around neck> the amulet of Moudrilar
<worn on body> (Humming) breastplate of a dwarven ribcage
<worn on head> (Glowing) (Humming) a darkened helm
<worn on legs> some spider-skin leggings
<worn on feet> a pair of steel lined dragonscale boots
<worn on arms> a pair of silver-lined sleeves
<worn about body> a skin from the snow leopard
<worn about waist> a girdle of giant strength
<worn around wrist> the Bracelet of Charms
<worn around wrist> a glittering bracelet of solid sapphire
<wielded> a bloody straight razor named 'Answer to Dissent'
<dual wield> an ornate scepter of prismatic crystal
The special guard's slash grazes Urog.
The special guard's slash DISMEMBERS Urog!
The gods protect Urog.
The gods protect Urog.
Urog's brilliant radiance MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Urog's chaotic blast *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's black light *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's acidic bite *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's black light *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's black light *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
The Blood Tribunal executioner's slash MASSACRES Urog!

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 11 PM>
The special guard's slash grazes Urog.
The special guard's slash MASSACRES Urog!
The gods protect Urog.
The special guard's slash DISMEMBERS Urog!
Urog leaves east.
Urog has fled!
Veulios's black light *** DEVASTATES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's acidic bite *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's acidic bite MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
The Blood Tribunal executioner's slash MANGLES Veulios!
A special guard comes to the Blood Tribunal executioner's aid!
Veulios yells 'Help! I am being attacked by someone!'
The special guard's slash scratches Veulios.

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 11 PM>
o all rescue executioner
Ok.

<820/832><290/440><630/667> 15166tnl civilized 11 PM>
The special guard checks the ground for tracks.
The special guard leaves east.
Veulios wipes the dirt from his eyes.
The Blood Tribunal executioner continues to bleed from its wounds.
The Blood Tribunal executioner's bleeding DISMEMBERS it!
The special guard yells 'Urog! Now you die!'

<832/832><299/440><667/667> 15166tnl civilized 11 PM>


The special guard yells 'Veulios is a CRIMINAL! PROTECT THE INNOCENT!!'
The special guard yells 'Veulios is a CRIMINAL! PROTECT THE INNOCENT!!'
The special guard DISMEMBERS Veulios!
The Blood Tribunal healer closes his eyes for a moment and nods at you.

<832/832><299/440><667/667> 15166tnl civilized 11 PM>
<832/832><299/440><667/667> 15166tnl civilized 11 PM>
The special guard's slash scratches Veulios.
Urog has arrived.
Urog yells 'Help! I'm being attacked by the Blood Tribunal executioner!'
the Blood Tribunal executioner: Intruder! Intruder! Urog is raiding the Cabal!
The special guard's slash DISMEMBERS Veulios!
The special guard's slash DISMEMBERS Veulios!
The gods protect Veulios.
The special guard's slash MASSACRES Veulios!
The gods protect Veulios.
The special guard's slash scratches Veulios.
The special guard's slash scratches Veulios.
Urog's brilliant radiance MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Urog's chaotic blast *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Urog's chaotic blast *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Urog's chaotic blast MANGLES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Seizing upon a flaw in the Blood Tribunal executioner's tactics, Urog swiftly kicks it!
Urog's kick MASSACRES the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's black light *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
Veulios's black light *** DEMOLISHES *** the Blood Tribunal executioner!
The Blood Tribunal executioner's slash MASSACRES Urog!
Urog leaves east.
Urog has fled!
The Blood Tribunal executioner's slash MASSACRES Veulios!
Veulios has fled!

<832/832><299/440><667/667> 15166tnl civilized 11 PM>
The special guard yells 'Urog! Now you die!'

<832/832><299/440><667/667> 15166tnl civilized 11 PM>


<832/832><299/440><667/667> 15166tnl civilized 11 PM>
e
The Hall of the Vindicator


(WANTED) Urog is here, fighting the special guard.
A special guard from Galadon is here, enforcing the Law.
The special guard has arrived.
The special guard has arrived.

<832/832><299/440><666/667> 15166tnl civilized 11 PM>


The special guard yells 'Urog is a CRIMINAL! PROTECT THE INNOCENT!!'
The special guard DISMEMBERS Urog!
Urog leaves west.
Urog yells 'Help! I'm being attacked by the Blood Tribunal executioner!'
the Blood Tribunal executioner: Intruder! Intruder! Urog is raiding the Cabal!
Urog has fled!
The special guard yells 'Urog is a CRIMINAL! PROTECT THE INNOCENT!!'
You hear someone's death cry.

<832/832><299/440><666/667> 15166tnl civilized 11 PM>
w

<832/832><299/440><666/667> 15166tnl civilized 11 PM> The Altar of the Blood Tribunal


The corpse of Urog is here, dried blood caked over a slashed throat.
A pit for sacrifices is in front of the altar.
The gray stone altar of the Blood Tribunal is here.
A special guard from Galadon is here, enforcing the Law.
A special guard from Galadon is here, enforcing the Law.
The Blood Tribunal executioner stands before you, a grimace on his face.
(White Aura) A muscular old human in healers robes is here.
The special guard has arrived.
The special guard has arrived.

<832/832><299/440><665/667> 15166tnl civilized 11 PM>
get all corpse
You get a pitch-black ring from the corpse of Urog.
You get an ornate scepter of prismatic crystal from the corpse of Urog.
You get a skin from the snow leopard from the corpse of Urog.
You get breastplate of a dwarven ribcage from the corpse of Urog.
You get a pair of spiked leggings from the corpse of Urog.
You get a pair of steel lined dragonscale boots from the corpse of Urog.
You get a pair of silver-lined sleeves from the corpse of Urog.
You get an aquamarine bracelet from the corpse of Urog.
You get an aquamarine bracelet from the corpse of Urog.
You get the wasp-blade from the corpse of Urog.
You get an amulet of the Viper from the corpse of Urog.
A large saddle bag: you can't carry that many items.
The Bracelet of Charms: you can't carry that many items.
A suit of darkened platemail: you can't carry that many items.
A glittering bracelet of solid sapphire: you can't carry that many items.
The amulet of Moudrilar: you can't carry that many items.
A fire opal ring: you can't carry that many items.
A potion of transportation: you can't carry that many items.
A glittering bracelet of solid ruby: you can't carry that many items.
A darkened helm: you can't carry that many items.
Some spider-skin leggings: you can't carry that many items.
A girdle of giant strength: you can't carry that many items.
A large saddle bag: you can't carry that many items.
A feather of levitation: you can't carry that many items.
A potion of teleportation: you can't carry that many items.
A potion of teleportation: you can't carry that many items.
You get 30 gold coins from the corpse of Urog.
Just keep it all.
You get 97 silver coins from the corpse of Urog.
Just keep it all.
You get 1031 copper coins from the corpse of Urog.
Just keep it all.

<832/832><299/440><665/667> 15166tnl civilized 11 PM>
o all get all corpse
The special guard gets a large saddle bag from the corpse of Urog.
The special guard gets the Bracelet of Charms from the corpse of Urog.
The special guard gets a suit of darkened platemail from the corpse of Urog.
The special guard gets a glittering bracelet of solid sapphire from the corpse of Urog.
The special guard gets the amulet of Moudrilar from the corpse of Urog.
The special guard gets a fire opal ring from the corpse of Urog.
The special guard gets a potion of transportation from the corpse of Urog.
The special guard gets a glittering bracelet of solid ruby from the corpse of Urog.
The special guard gets a darkened helm from the corpse of Urog.
The special guard gets some spider-skin leggings from the corpse of Urog.
The special guard gets a girdle of giant strength from the corpse of Urog.
The special guard gets a large saddle bag from the corpse of Urog.
The special guard gets a feather of levitation from the corpse of Urog.
The special guard gets a potion of teleportation from the corpse of Urog.
The special guard gets a potion of teleportation from the corpse of Urog.
Ok.

The truth, IMHO, is somewhere between your respective viewpoints. I'll just respond to Balrahd's post here because it happens to have more things I feel like commenting on at the moment.

>1.ii. I've seen tons of people die while retrieving from
>Tribunal while wanted. I've never -- let me repeat, *NEVER*
>seen ANYONE dumb enough to die against the Outlander inner
>while unopposed. In my mind, this further discredits your
>assertion that it is more difficult/dangerous.

I've seen that happen.

While I agree I see a lot more Outlanders die raiding Tribunal unopposed than the reverse, I believe 80-90% of this is a difference in play styles in the cabals. What I mean to say is, I generally see the Outlander players whose heart outstrips their skill level being the ones dying raiding Tribunal unopposed. Tribunal characters of a similar non-mad-dog-killer-ishness tend to be encouraged not to raid. The culture of the cabal is just different that way. When those players do raid Outlander, they take it in the pants just about as bad.

I think in general Tribunal is a harder cabal to raid unopposed, and Outlander is a harder cabal to raid with significant
opposition.

>3.i. Rhaebryn did not pass level 40.
>3.ii. AFAIK, Rhaebryn never faced Tribunals at the inner
>guardian (Executioner). I am almost certain this never
>happened, because believe me, you, as a human ranger, would
>find this experience very enlightening. (Obviously, I never
>heard of your character before you said you played him, so I
>cannot verify this).

For the record, I saw a fair bit of Rhaebryn and I did not personally see him raid the inner. Recoveries he did do with relatively little reservation.

>4.i. Tribunal only has ONE cabal enemy. Outlander has TWO.
>Outlander SHOULD have the powers to represent this further
>challenge.

This is something I've thought about at times. I think the balance of Tribunal to Outlander is very close to correct. The balance of Outlander to Empire, on the other hand, feels a little off to me in Empire's favor. Without a particular one of the Emperor's powers (the Sect Leader who has it I find less problematic) I might think differently. I'm not sure of a best way to address that without upsetting the Tribunal-Outlander balance.

Keep in mind that Tribunal has to deal with anyone wanted. Typically, whichever other cabal is on top at the time will be more willing to eat flags and kill them.

>4.ii. Outlander's other cabal enemy is also in a large,
>civilized area protected by a 5-15 guard mobs. Being wanted
>makes retrieving from Empire just as difficult, if not more
>than from Tribunal. If you were wanted as Rhaebryn, you would
>have noticed this. Because it's particularly challenging for
>a human ranger sub-40 when you add in centurions.

Centurions can be a challenge. There are some ways to deal with the guards you're thinking of that make the situation less bad than you might think. (I'm surprised you're not aware of one of them -- these are things I picked up briefly playing an Outlander some time ago.)

>4.iii. Tribunal is open to every race except two (orcs and
>wood elves). Tribunal is open to every class. Outlander, on
>the other hand, face far more restrictions on membership.
>Tribunal has no RP restrictions on actions. Outlander, on the
>other hand, face far more restrictions, more than any other
>cabal except Battle.

While technically true, there are a lot of classes that don't make especially good Tribunal, or who have to frequently fight in a highly sub-optimal way to avoid breaking the law.

The need to avoid breaking the law and need to try to fill your Tribunal duties (if you want to go anywhere in the cabal, especially) are a strong RP restriction on Tribunal. There's almost no worse feeling in the game than watching a gang of people in your jurisdiction prep up to kill you right in front of you. You can just abandon your post, but I don't think any Trib worth their salt would do this frequently without at least making an attempt. Being forced to give up the initiative and first strike in many PK situations is enormous.

Finally, consider that Outlander is relatively free to raid whoever they want. I'm not sure you've ever attacked a cabalguardian besides Outlander's as a Tribunal, but it sucks. Last I checked they were forced to be off duty for an hour or more of RL time if they even, say, attack the massive giant to get the scales back from Battle.

>Finally, consider that Outlander is relatively free to raid
>whoever they want. I'm not sure you've ever attacked a
>cabalguardian besides Outlander's as a Tribunal, but it sucks.
> Last I checked they were forced to be off duty for an hour or
>more of RL time if they even, say, attack the massive giant to
>get the scales back from Battle.

Well, eventually I'm going to play another Tribunal, and I'll pick up this thread when it's dead. Personally, I'm hoping I get to watch a group prep up to kill me right in front of me.. That thought kind of makes me chuckle.

(edited)

The hardest part about being a Tribunal, I found, is as a warrior or the like, dealing with wanted ragers outside of town solo as a magistrate. I came out on top a few times, but there were many out of town fights where as a magistrate I'd have killed for any sort of boost I could've gotten.

I wound up having to be basically a prep monkey and getting highly creative, just to overcome the nastiness that is bash + resist + deathblow.

Its somewhat rough to have all the enemies you aquire as a tribunal while in a cabal that typically doesn't lend much in the way of aid in Pk'ing people both in powers and in allies.

Though, I could've chosen not to fight them, I had my own RP restrictions as well which I had to bite the bullet and abide.

I'm not sure how well they are balanced because to be honest, I've never played a Tribunal. I have played various old Sylvan and Outlanders battling the Spire and basically: sometimes you eat the dog and sometimes the dog eats you.

From what I've seen of cabal powers though, I think the Tribunal has the edge on ease of play in several regards:

-defending: Tribbies can instantly get back to defend from almost every where because of their pillars and/or pills and it takes them almost no time to get guards it seems. While there are some really cool tricks Outlanders can use, it always takes them more time to get back. Often well after the outer is dead. As far as the guards/beast call goes, well the guards can attack any number of folks and attack out of range (when PC is WANTED), while the beasts only attack the PC it's called on and don't rescue or follow orders to loot (bless their wild hearts!). Beasts are of course available more places than guards (save the leaders) but were in the past discouraged from being used except in defense of the tree.


-raiding: basically none of the Outlander powers are available when raiding any other cabal. Same is mostly true for the Spire except for the leader guards and manacles and those handy pills to zap back home.
Now the Inner outtie is definitely more diverse than the Inner tribbie, they both take some skill to defeat. Biggest difference? Raiding the Spire is an automatic warrant, raiding the Refuge? Meh. When I played Brodie, I didn't have any big problem raiding the Spire, even alone if I had any kind of preparation at all (which was seldom) and even without, managed a time or 2. Raiding the Empire depends almost entirely on not having a pack of Centurions to fight through (which gives them time to recall/prep). Same for retrieving.

-retrieving: depends on defenders almost entirely, though some of the more common classes of Outlanders give up a significant advantage when fighting in the city. They also lose the least without the fetish (thinking rangers here). The big difference here, and the one that started this whole thread is that with Outlanders, really only those in PK range can defend at all (save for goodies and bio) while with the Spire, anyone at all can defend if the retriever is WANTED (non-WANTED of course it's somewhat easier with some classes) Hence it's mostly at the low-mid ranks that really stack the advantage in the Tribunal favor here. Especially given their numbers over the last months where it seems someone from the Spire is almost always on.

Admittedly when defending at the tree, rangers/druids tend to have an advantage just because of the class characterstics.

The point of this long diatribe is that WANTED flags place a significant burden on Outlander in the cabal balance at sub-hero ranges where there is no similar burden placed on any of the other cabals the Outlander commonly wars with (which at last count was everyone depending the mood of the folks on). I was just wondering about the relatively permanent nature of this burden (aside from PC death). When I had an elf invoker, the penalty from dieing (exp when killed by guards or pets and con) because of flags rather quickly pushed it over the edge to deletion because of the holes I constantly had to dig out of (and usually alone because of Outlander RP restrictions).

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback from everyone in the thread. And PRO.....you might think about seeing someone professional in the mental health field......

Twice now there has been some immortal comments about how essentially there is work to be done. Now, I can't help it, but I feel like, if it was overpoweredness in Outlanders favor, it would have been fixed already. Right? So ####ing do something about it already. Seriously..... Also, Nep, have you played an outlander? I highly HIGHLY suggest you try one out and see just how big their restrictions are.... then I'll watch smugly as you go back to playing coin using ragers and think about how much better off you have it.

I would have just kicked dirt in your eyes and ditched your ass in the sands of sorrow. Very curious what general area of Missouri you are in now.

"Moral of the story: If you don’t want a visit from your local Vindicator, don’t break the ####ing Law." - Re read the thread, this isn't a complaint about the vindicator coming and whipping ass.

Or are you truely interested?

You know I wont even go into the CF aspect of this post. I just wanted to tell you that you scare me thats all. I used to think boy am I glad that he is in the army and they are keeping him in check. Now I am thinking boy am I glad this guy doesnt live anywhere close to me. I guess if you come any closer to home il just start pissin in my pants. Really man, how does someone fall so far off the looney wagon that even the police force in one of the not so picky states refuse to accept you?


On a side note, keep on stayin far far away from me.

Much love and all that
Parv

Problem: This idea was already shot down by the Imms.

How About This: Maybe being WANTED can have a positive benefit for the cabal that basically requires it: Outlander. Meaning, it should be a "badge of honor" recognized by the cabal mobs so that they give you deals on bartered items (Lin-Ha gives cheaper supps, etc.). The idea is that every game mechanics reaction to WANTED is negative. That doesn't make sense when you have a cabal that is encouraged to seek it out. So why not create a little carrot with the stick and associate some modest positive game mechanics reaction to it.

Right now the only thing about being a criminal that isn't pain-in-the-ass is that your life won't become any more ####ed up when you commit more crimes.

Possible implementations include outlaw mobs that help wanted people in various fashions.

Or small outlander power-boons for criminals. *coughinsectswarmcough*

Also, it would be cool if the (WANTED) flag had a sliding scale, depending on how many crimes you commit.. So instead of (WANTED) Bob the Shadow, we might see (PETTY THUG) Notorious Big the O-beast or (CEREAL KILLA) Tupac Shakur the OG.

This might also affect the behavior of law-enforcing mobs, so that they on one hand will be more alert and faster to act on the prescence of the cereal killa, but on the other hand they might also be too afraid to do anything about him if the odds aren't stacked in their favor.

.

{SCION} the Archmage of Eternal Night: Say it.

Yeah, I also like the idea of wanted having some perk to it if you're an outlander. An alternative solution is to make at least being an aggressive raiding Tribunal (specifically Tribunal) incur some of the area-based hostility that criminals have walking through Galadon.

Random aggro NPC's for instance, not extremely powerful but serving as a hindrance. When you encroach on forbidden terrain as a lawkeeper, mother nature should let you know you're not welcome.

How to balance crimes and criminals within Theran society.

1) Give flags a week real time duration and after that they fade as long as:
-the criminal avoided breaking any other laws.
-the criminal remained for the majority of that time in areas where laws are not enforced.
-criminal refrains from mocking/annoying the Tribunals which of course means the Provost adds some time to his wanted flag.

2) Keep track of the number of times a character is marked.
- if character is marked X times he becomes a career criminal and guards in Tribunal Law abiding cities attack him on sight.
-if character is marked 4X times he becomes a rabid criminal and guards in non-Tribunal Law centers attack him on sight.

3) Career criminals have options of restitution, finacial of course, or some other sly method.. maybe via the thieves' guild to get their name off of the MOST WANTED list.
-each city could have to be addressed individually to remove the most wanted list and of course non-Tribunal Law centers would be easier to get yourself off of.

With the evolving mercantile system I can see new opportunities for all sorts of criminal activities. Tying into it the chance of having your "record" cleansed would be neat RP stuff too. Laws can be sources of amazing RP stuff and that seems to be where CF is headed. Makes me tear up.. really.. it does... come on you can trust me.. it does..that is NOT my hand in your pocket... trust me...

A few things..So well. Lets start. This post will be delete, but anyway.


-I have even played- You like to speak this phrase so much. But please, don't give a ####. Your ####ty ranger didn't even hit the hero. He died like a newbie. You played about 100 hours? Thats all you got from Outlanders? And now you speak like a prophessor of Outlanders? FO. Your ranger was sitting in the woods most of the time. The time you stepped out of the forest on retrive, you died many times. Right? Becose I was in Cabal in that time.

As Neph says, I am always complaining. Yea. I am. But not this time. Just one suggestion, make portals - two direction, to cabal and out from cabal. You know what I am speaking about.

Bye bye.

Ordrig....You are not smart.