Deadfall: Can't do it while chamo'd
***Agree*** You should be able to do this while camo.

Harvest: 5 rounds of standing around unchamo'd for some food (it might be 3 rounds) thanks, but I think I'll just go buy some berry pies.

+++Agree and Disagree+++ The lag didn't bother me as much as the hidden time.

Subvert: I can't imagine a situation where this isn't the worst thing I can do with three rounds while attempting to attack a Trib, but hey, I never bothered to try it.... Cause umm.... I can't imagine a worse thing to do with my first three rounds?

+++Agree+++ It isn't like you can spam this skill. Decrease the time to one or two rounds.

Ignite: This is great, except for the fact that it has a short timer and is a crime.... So sure you can get an extra +20 hit dam, so long as you use it every 8 hours and don't use it in a protected area (so that you don't get flagged)

+++Agree+++ At the very least make it last longer for mage classes.

Windwalk: Ahh... the nicest power there is. Who needs flight potions when you have windwalk? Well unless you want to fight in a city... you know... where your enemies are. Granted it's great in a utility for the lazy sort of way, but quite frankly, I'd rather have flight potions.

+++Agree+++ How about putting a city timer on it? So if you are in a city for say 3-4 hours then it drops.

Vandalize: This power is so stupid. You can get maybe one potion, from an out of the way shop, and close it down for long enough that you had better get a DAMN good use outta that one potion you got. RP wise, it makes sense, game wise, it's great... for me to poop on.

+++Agree+++ If you keep the current format, perhaps change it so that you can aim for a certain potion. Yippy! I grabbed the detect evil potion again!

Chameleon: Ahhh the Outlander uber power that evens out everything else. YOU CAN'T MOVE. I'm sure everyone knows this, but unless you plan on sitting in one place for a very very long time in order to trap someone... this is really only useful for running away (provided you have the fetish). I'd rather have lots of teleport potions personnally, but maybe that's just because you can't stop teleporting with faerie fire... or fog... or bioluminescence... or mark of the prey... or piercing gaze... or any area spell, or any other of
the numerous ways to make some who is camo'd not camo'd anymore.

+++Disagree+++ For a warrior especially this is a bad ass power. Especially since you can prep while camo and then bum rush them with windwalk.

4) Sequestor: Without outlanders having insect call, I don't get how this power makes any sense. It doesn't take a genius to make a trigger to manacle the wanted (as I'm sure at least one spireling has) and after that, you get a short term no transportation effect. Yay for tribunals getting kills they have no business getting.

+++Agree+++ I'd gladly take old school manacles over sequestor.

5) Tribs don't have power outside the cities: Of course... they don't lose any power with the scales gone either.... so why ever leave? Eventually they have enough numbers to garuntee any retreival will be successful, and so they just sit there... in the city. I won't be fearing any Outlanders in the wilds now that I've played one, but I'm pretty sure I'll still avoid being wanted if I can... Parity?

+++Agree+++

6) No Healers: Tac got in trouble for bartering with town healers to heal so he could retreive. That puts your list of available healer mobs roughly equal with those of a Rager. Have fun with that.

+++Agree+++ I'd like to see outlanders who have a certain special power be able to get aid from ancient hidden forest creatures or something.


7) Any raid up the Spire, and any spireling is one recall potion, and one trib spire from being there to make your life miserable. Outlanders? If they aren't already there, you'll probably have your item before they get there. After all it isn't like there are any recall points close by, and they're going to have to run the rest of the way.

+++Disagree+++ There if you had above said power life was hella easy.

8) Gray Taint: This is just plain uneccessary. So you mistakenly wore a silver dragon necklace, or a raft from galadon. Welcome to 15 minutes of powers not working and stupidly bad regen rates.

+++Disagree+++ Don't be a moron and wear it.

9) Race/Class restrictions: I could go on about this for a very long time, but suffice to say, you have zero access to the four most deadly/powerful classes (necros, ap's, paladins, conjies). Zero, or near zero access to detect hidden (thieves/assassins/duergar). And the race class combinations you do allow are hamstrung by the other cabal restrictions. What were you thinking?

+++Agree kinda+++ The problem I had with my last Outlander was conflicting imm opinion. Innis didn't like traveling with Scions. Lyristeon encouraged it. And it is obvious from Arminas's comments that he didn't get kicked out for grouping with Paladins.

10) Stupid Outlander-friendly preps have stupid ass side effects. Seriously... CALM GOT ME KILLED. Why is it there?

+++Agree+++ They didn't last long enough to be of any use. It wasn't like any of them were super-great. Why not make them rot-death?

11) This one is thrown in specifically for Rehny, and because I think it's stupid for at least the evil branch of the Outlander, but could be applied across the board. Wilderness time... Why? For what purpose? If your enemies won't leave the city, why in god's name would you sit in the woods? How does this make sense?

+++Disagree+++ How else can you perfect chameleon?

I believe they do not come close to equaling the limitations. Discounting ragers, who get a nice set of powers to compensate for their limitations, outlanders really have it the toughest. No coins is just eek. Not having easy healer usage is tough. On top of all this, outlanders have the toughest cabal to fight against.

Out of all the outlander powers, chameleon is the only one that really counts as something especially good. Being able to hide is great for a lot of classes, but it is still quite limited, since it involves having people come to you.

As an Imperial, a decent player has a fair chance of getting access to the sickest cabal power set in game. And even if you don't make it to Emperor, even the Elites of sects get some sweet powers. Light into shadow, imperial training, black sanc, power to resist getting your elite storm giant zombies from getting summoned. Hell, even blade of the codex is compareable (if not better due to convenience) than ignite.

As a maran, you get a power to practically negate your most lethal enemy, you get flight, and zeal will kick ignites ass, since again, you can have it on 24/7.

A scion mage will have powers to increase your offense with a nasty tracking nightwalker, able to prep for some sweet extra hp, ability to negate nasty opener spells, and a few extra non-pk perks.

And tribunals, while their skillset is limited, the pure power is way more than the respective for outlander.

Outlander powers in general are fine, but just too inconvenient to use. While the roleplay theme is cool, it's not a lot of fun to go around igniting stuff every 8 ticks, or to be forced to hang around in the wilderness with a thumb up your ass when nothing happens. The real solution would be to give outlanders a few easy-access portable powers.
Making subvert an automatic skill would be a nice idea, with possibly lessening the effect to just making the special guard realise his error and leave, instead of attacking tribunal boy.
Upping ignite timer would be nice, perhaps regressively so that keeping up one ignite would be easy, with a long 40-50 tick duration, the second one might be 15, and the last one could be 4-5 ticks, so you could slap it on when needed. Wouldn't make the skill all powerfull, but a bit more convenient to use.
Similar changes for other powers aswell.

As a side note, since tribunals have the <b>possibility</b> of gaining shackles + sequester, it would only seem fair that perhaps one specially marked outlander <b>could</b> gain access to the all powerfull insect swarm. It would level the playing field against Vindicators and the Emperor.

Outlander powers have the greatest sacrifice/reward ratio.

>Harvest: 5 rounds of standing around unchamo'd for some food
> it might be 3 rounds) thanks, but I think I'll just go buy
>some berry pies.
>+++Agree and Disagree+++ The lag didn't bother me as much as
>the hidden time.

It makes sense to me that when you are hunting for prey you're vulnerable. It's also a great way of getting food. With harvest and skin combined, I found Outlanders handy for recovering from a full loot. You'll just skin your corpse and grab some food from the bush and start getting gear to wear.

>Ignite: This is great, except for the fact that it has a short
>timer and is a crime.... So sure you can get an extra +20 hit
>dam, so long as you use it every 8 hours and don't use it in a
>protected area (so that you don't get flagged)
>
>+++Agree+++ At the very least make it last longer for mage
>classes.

Ignite is a real pain in the ass for Tribunals once the fires have spread enough. The whole city will catch fire, so I think they'd agree you with the longer timer.

>Vandalize: This power is so stupid. You can get maybe one
>potion, from an out of the way shop, and close it down for
>long enough that you had better get a DAMN good use outta that
>one potion you got. RP wise, it makes sense, game wise, it's
>great... for me to poop on.
>
>+++Agree+++ If you keep the current format, perhaps change it
>so that you can aim for a certain potion. Yippy! I grabbed
>the detect evil potion again!

It's a nice power, though the bad part is that you can't grab anything while in form.


>4) Sequestor: Without outlanders having insect call, I don't
>get how this power makes any sense. It doesn't take a genius
>to make a trigger to manacle the wanted (as I'm sure at least
>one spireling has) and after that, you get a short term no
>transportation effect. Yay for tribunals getting kills they
>have no business getting.
>
>+++Agree+++ I'd gladly take old school manacles over
>sequestor.

I wouldn't. Old school manacles were a death sentence or forced retreat for a casting mage.

>5) Tribs don't have power outside the cities: Of course...
>they don't lose any power with the scales gone either.... so
>why ever leave? Eventually they have enough numbers to
>garuntee any retreival will be successful, and so they just
>sit there... in the city. I won't be fearing any Outlanders in
>the wilds now that I've played one, but I'm pretty sure I'll
>still avoid being wanted if I can... Parity?

You don't count losing manacles and the lesser powers as anything?

>6) No Healers: Tac got in trouble for bartering with town
>healers to heal so he could retreive. That puts your list of
>available healer mobs roughly equal with those of a Rager.
>Have fun with that.
>
>+++Agree+++ I'd like to see outlanders who have a certain
>special power be able to get aid from ancient hidden forest
>creatures or something.

If it's retrieving from Spire you talk about, there's a healer mob in the weald.

>Deadfall: Can't do it while chamo'd
>***Agree*** You should be able to do this while camo.
>

Seconded

>Harvest: 5 rounds of standing around unchamo'd for some food
> it might be 3 rounds) thanks, but I think I'll just go buy
>some berry pies.
>
>+++Agree and Disagree+++ The lag didn't bother me as much as
>the hidden time.
>

Seconded

>Subvert: I can't imagine a situation where this isn't the
>worst thing I can do with three rounds while attempting to
>attack a Trib, but hey, I never bothered to try it.... Cause
>umm.... I can't imagine a worse thing to do with my first
>three rounds?
>
>+++Agree+++ It isn't like you can spam this skill. Decrease
>the time to one or two rounds.
>

For it to be useful this skill should be automatic. Every time a guard mob auto attacks you as a wanted outlander, it should have to make a chance against your "subversive power" to see if it actually attacks, or turns on it's master, or just shies away in fear ala orc guards.

>Ignite: This is great, except for the fact that it has a short
>timer and is a crime.... So sure you can get an extra +20 hit
>dam, so long as you use it every 8 hours and don't use it in a
>protected area (so that you don't get flagged)
>
>+++Agree+++ At the very least make it last longer for mage
>classes.
>

Actually, I considered this power at least semi-useful, though a longer timer would certainly be nice.

>Windwalk: Ahh... the nicest power there is. Who needs flight
>potions when you have windwalk? Well unless you want to fight
>in a city... you know... where your enemies are. Granted it's
>great in a utility for the lazy sort of way, but quite
>frankly, I'd rather have flight potions.
>
>+++Agree+++ How about putting a city timer on it? So if you
>are in a city for say 3-4 hours then it drops.
>

Seconded... I'd make it work ala spores in bad climate.... It doesn't dissapear instantly, but the timer drops etc..

>Vandalize: This power is so stupid. You can get maybe one
>potion, from an out of the way shop, and close it down for
>long enough that you had better get a DAMN good use outta that
>one potion you got. RP wise, it makes sense, game wise, it's
>great... for me to poop on.
>
>+++Agree+++ If you keep the current format, perhaps change it
>so that you can aim for a certain potion. Yippy! I grabbed
>the detect evil potion again!
>

In order for this power to be useful IMHO it should have a syntax identical to buy. For instance, I got to Hamsah, and attempt to vandalize the apothecary for 10 dimunition potions... Based on how much value I'm trying to steal from the shop, my chances of success might be pretty low, but at least I'd get what I wanted on success. Also you should be able to try and try again until success or the shoppie is dead. After all, the shop is shut down for a considerable time, so it isn't like it would be free unlimited potions.

>Chameleon: Ahhh the Outlander uber power that evens out
>everything else. YOU CAN'T MOVE. I'm sure everyone knows this,
>but unless you plan on sitting in one place for a very very
>long time in order to trap someone... this is really only
>useful for running away (provided you have the fetish). I'd
>rather have lots of teleport potions personnally, but maybe
>that's just because you can't stop teleporting with faerie
>fire... or fog... or bioluminescence... or mark of the prey...
>or piercing gaze... or any area spell, or any other of
> the numerous ways to make some who is camo'd not camo'd
>anymore.
>
>+++Disagree+++ For a warrior especially this is a bad ass
>power. Especially since you can prep while camo and then bum
>rush them with windwalk.
>

I'll keep my opinion that this power is 90% utility, 5% deadly, and 5% evasive, but that's just my opinion. (Hint: If they are in a place where you can camo, they're expecting you already... might as well just prep as you run there, or one area away... it's the same thing)

>4) Sequestor: Without outlanders having insect call, I don't
>get how this power makes any sense. It doesn't take a genius
>to make a trigger to manacle the wanted (as I'm sure at least
>one spireling has) and after that, you get a short term no
>transportation effect. Yay for tribunals getting kills they
>have no business getting.
>
>+++Agree+++ I'd gladly take old school manacles over
>sequestor.
>

Seconded

>5) Tribs don't have power outside the cities: Of course...
>they don't lose any power with the scales gone either.... so
>why ever leave? Eventually they have enough numbers to
>garuntee any retreival will be successful, and so they just
>sit there... in the city. I won't be fearing any Outlanders in
>the wilds now that I've played one, but I'm pretty sure I'll
>still avoid being wanted if I can... Parity?
>
>+++Agree+++
>

Seconded

>6) No Healers: Tac got in trouble for bartering with town
>healers to heal so he could retreive. That puts your list of
>available healer mobs roughly equal with those of a Rager.
>Have fun with that.
>
>+++Agree+++ I'd like to see outlanders who have a certain
>special power be able to get aid from ancient hidden forest
>creatures or something.
>
>

I didn't mention this power (Tac never got it as I don't use AIM and didn't feel the need to waste my time trying to figure it out), but last I checked, every other cabal got their powers for just, you know, being in the cabal... Or, since someone will point it out, being the leader of said cabal (Empire)

>7) Any raid up the Spire, and any spireling is one recall
>potion, and one trib spire from being there to make your life
>miserable. Outlanders? If they aren't already there, you'll
>probably have your item before they get there. After all it
>isn't like there are any recall points close by, and they're
>going to have to run the rest of the way.
>
>+++Disagree+++ There if you had above said power life was
>hella easy.
>

See above.

>8) Gray Taint: This is just plain uneccessary. So you
>mistakenly wore a silver dragon necklace, or a raft from
>galadon. Welcome to 15 minutes of powers not working and
>stupidly bad regen rates.
>
>+++Disagree+++ Don't be a moron and wear it.
>

This was kind of a reach, I think it was included because I was running out of things to bitch about in my top ten, but it really is just one more straw on the camel's back.

>9) Race/Class restrictions: I could go on about this for a
>very long time, but suffice to say, you have zero access to
>the four most deadly/powerful classes (necros, ap's, paladins,
>conjies). Zero, or near zero access to detect hidden
> thieves/assassins/duergar). And the race class combinations
>you do allow are hamstrung by the other cabal restrictions.
>What were you thinking?
>
>+++Agree kinda+++ The problem I had with my last Outlander was
>conflicting imm opinion. Innis didn't like traveling with
>Scions. Lyristeon encouraged it. And it is obvious from
>Arminas's comments that he didn't get kicked out for grouping
>with Paladins.
>

From my experience with Tac, your list of "acceptable allies" as an evil outlander doesn't include anyone in another cabal.

>10) Stupid Outlander-friendly preps have stupid ass side
>effects. Seriously... CALM GOT ME KILLED. Why is it there?
>
>+++Agree+++ They didn't last long enough to be of any use.
>It wasn't like any of them were super-great. Why not make
>them rot-death?
>

This wasn't just the preps sold in the cabal's shops, but some things like herbal brew have extra effects that don't need to be there. Just another straw.

>11) This one is thrown in specifically for Rehny, and because
>I think it's stupid for at least the evil branch of the
>Outlander, but could be applied across the board. Wilderness
>time... Why? For what purpose? If your enemies won't leave the
>city, why in god's name would you sit in the woods? How does
>this make sense?
>
>+++Disagree+++ How else can you perfect chameleon?

Did the empire check you for civilization time? Just one more straw, especially for evil outlanders who are supposed to REALLY be bringing the fight to the city. All of Tac's wilderness time was more or less gathered under two situations 1)Pre-induction I was told I needed it, so I sat around in a forest until I had enough, and 2)Post-induction when I was hiding from a range that consisted of enemies, unacceptable allies, and Tac.

Edit: I keep forgetting Strenghten. The power of strengthen does not warrant request lag. Seriously 5hp? 2 dam? I'll keep the three minutes of my life thanks

I am bored at work so allow me to step in.
Caveat: I only played one Outlander who was mage (svirf invoker Bliaha).
So my view is somewhat limited.


>Deadfall: Can't do it while chamo'd
>Harvest: 5 rounds of standing around unchamo'd for some food

I think it is just fine as is. Nobody forces you to use this power.


>Subvert: I can't imagine a situation where this isn't the

I found it great skill in theory and useless in practice.
So I never really used it.


>Ignite: This is great, except for the fact that it has a short

I did not have this skill so I can not comment.
Sounds like a small added bonus for warrior types.


>Windwalk: Ahh... the nicest power there is. Who needs flight

Disagree. It is very nice power as is.
And you CAN use it in Spire.


>Vandalize: This power is so stupid. You can get maybe one

Never had vandalize.
But I think it is more of RP perk rather then get_potions_for_free.
From this perspective it looks just fine.


>Chameleon: Ahhh the Outlander uber power that evens out


Disagree. Chameleon is the best outlander power.
It has it's limitations but no drawbacks.


>4) Sequestor: Without outlanders having insect call, I don't


Actually I never really cared about Sequestor.
I could always just run away if things got dicey.

Manacles on other hand made raiding/re-raiding very troublesome.
But not as bad as the old version of manacles.


>
>5) Tribs don't have power outside the cities: Of course...


The way I view this, Tribunals have mostly RP incentive to retrieve.
And in my humble opinion this needs to be changed.
I am in favor of them actually LOOSING powers (guards, vigilance) when raided.


>6) No Healers: Tac got in trouble for bartering with town


Frankly I never actually needed healer.
With changes to regeneration you can be back in business pretty fast.
By the way there is a healer in Feanwyyn Weald.


>
>7) Any raid up the Spire, and any spireling is one recall
>potion, and one trib spire from being there to make your life
>miserable. Outlanders? If they aren't already there, you'll
>probably have your item before they get there. After all it
>isn't like there are any recall points close by, and they're
>going to have to run the rest of the way.
>


This is the nature of cabal conflict. This is what makes cabals interesting.

>
>9) Race/Class restrictions: I could go on about this for a
>very long time, but suffice to say, you have zero access to
>the four most deadly/powerful classes (necros, ap's, paladins,
>conjies). Zero, or near zero access to detect hidden
> thieves/assassins/duergar). And the race class combinations
>you do allow are hamstrung by the other cabal restrictions.
>What were you thinking?


Duergar maran, anyone?
These restrictions are there for a reason.



>10) Stupid Outlander-friendly preps have stupid ass side
>effects. Seriously... CALM GOT ME KILLED. Why is it there?

Eh... Don’t like them? Don’t use them!!!

>11) Wilderness time

Honestly it is not that bad.
However Outlanders do not translate to wilderness lovers for me.
Anti-civilization, yes. Sylvan - no.
So I agree to disagree.


>+++Disagree+++ How else can you perfect chameleon?

This is joke, right?

But I would believe as a mage you are far less shafted than a warrior. In general as a mage you have free teleport and recall as much as you need. You have free detect invis. On the other hands, as a mage you benefit from windwalk much more than a warrior type class would, since you are far more likely to be killed when caught with pants down without flight. I am not really aware of what sort of preps these potions with annoying effects are, but I could imagine preps like enlarge and reduce, possibly stone skin are a major pain in the ass for warriors, when a svirf voker, who utilises inherent stone skin and wands that are just as limited for anyone (and in fact chaotic people have a bit wider array of, afaik).