So, Reading officials, I wonder what all the fuss is about boilard's deletion.

I finally make my way over to Dio's, and read the log, and the responses.

Anyone...ANYONE...who doesn't think the outlanders, and the scions, uninductions were COMPLETELY called for, is a total. Complete. Moron.

And trust me, I usually think twice before agreeing with Valg, but PEOPLE, think about it.

I love this game because it's RP is immersive. There is nowhere in Thera where you get a free pass to just drop role.

The outlanders? ####, their should be a prog that automatically uninducts an outlander if they group with a conji, imperial, tribby, or scion.

And the Scions? They called a Nightwalker...saw it get attacked....and did nothing.

Then after that, the Archmage ordered them to do something, and they sat on their asses for a time, and one of them even admitted refusing.

And what did he expect?


I put the actions of the outlanders in that log, and the scions in that log, on the same EXACT level as Lisl going to Ktengs as a battlerager and doing a quest to create magic.


I'm sorry, I just can not agree that any area should have a sign posted:

"This area is so cool, that you are allowed to ignore all roleplay and cabal strictures, because we want you to have fun while you are here"

Sorry, anyone who said "They should wait until they were out of hell" is saying "Hell should be designated an rp-free zone", and I think those people are beyond smoking crack, they are smoking their own cacks covered in a phosphorescent hot-pink heroin-crack-Chlorine bleach mixture.

I say good riddance. If they never play again.

I don't believe that losing players that will :

make potions as ragers, or break role in equally astounding an mind-bogglingly stupid ways (like those in the log I read), then complain when they are caught,

Will be missed, at least by me.

1) I can't think of a cabal Outlander should be less chummy with than Scion. Empire's goals of dominion and Tribunal's goals of keeping a few selected cities safe pale before the prospect of a group of conjurers who are interested in opening otherplanar rifts, plunge the world into darkness, and reign over the remnants (*).

2) Ditto Scions. Battle and Outlander oppose the tools necessary to complete their goals. If conjuration is weak/suppressed they are powerless to influence the outcomes. A strong Outlander is a bad Outlander.

3) Scion's relationship with their Nightwalkers has always been framed as an edgy alliance built around common ends. Scion dogma basically states that prophecies foretell that the Nightwalker race/plane is coming to Thera, and it's just a matter of time. If otherdimensional doom is coming, better to be among the few who are spared.

It has never been framed as a master/servant relationship. There have been suggestions that because the Scions risk becoming servants on the day the gates are thrown open, they will need to control the process (i.e. cause the gates to open, controlling and maintaining them) rather than be passive observers (i.e., wait around for the Nightwalkers to figure out how to throw them open themselves). But it's never been the case that Scions could abuse the Nightwalkers without it eventually catching up with them.

Standing around with your thumb in your butt when a (recently-ex) Outlander crispy-fries your Nightwalker has never been a good plan. The simplest solution for an evil PC in that situation would have been: Crispy-fry the offending Outlander. That would have easily been reward-worthy if done unprompted. Done after being prompted: Meh. Stand around after being prompted: Someone's going to pay.

All around, it was one of the clearer examples of Team Evil mentality in recent memory.

4) The only difference between this occuring in Hell and this occurring on Eastern Road is that you're a lot more likely to be watched, and therefore get caught (or in the alternate scenario, rewarded), in Hell. It certainly doesn't exempt you from roleplay standards.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

(*) All oversimplified but sufficiently accurate for the purposes of Outlander/Scion not getting along.

Apparently you *are* the local bad-ass imp. I'm not sure if congratulations or simpathies are in order.

*holds the microphone for comment, ready to duck an oncoming spell*

Keep up the good work though. Some of us appreciate what you do, and from what I've seen, none of the imms hear that even half as much as they should. =P

- Tharena the Silver-Tongued Songbird, Royal Crier of Darsylon

I knew that this is supposed to somehow be contrived as a
compliment for Valguarnera, but ugh, Cador?* I am very
surprised at the amount of crap Valg gets since, and I
suppose its just my opinion, I've never really seen any
change made in recent as being bad. I consider them mostly
improvements, and the rest neutral.

Despite what everyone says about the playerbase dropping
because of changes, I think it's a load of crap, ya'll are
still junkies and would stay despite the changes. All that
is going on now is folks are playing World of Warcraft
instead, either that or the old playerbase is growing
older and usually have other things they have to do, while
fresh players are less and less easily acquired on muds
these days (probably due to WoW and like games).

- Runaktla/Kazadan

(*) Has not actually had any scenarios personally with the
former Immortal Cador, but just has heard really really
annoying and/or nasty things.**

(**) Copying Valg's * disclaimers.

(*) Has not actually had any scenarios personally with the former Immortal Cador, but just has heard really really annoying and/or nasty things.**

I did as well before joining the staff and talking with people who worked with him. Having never overlapped with Cador, I can't speak with any authority on the matter, but every person I spoke with made it a point to mention that his reputation had only a passing resemblance to the man himself. Sometimes, stories change in the retelling, especially if the storyteller has a point to make.

Probably something to that.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Tell Lyristeon that, if you haven't already.

- Tharena the Silver-Tongued Songbird

Its truly astounding to me that people are jumping on the Imms about the handling of this situation. Its rare that you get such a cut and dry example of reasons for uninduction, yet still people feel snubbed and mistreated. The people who are screaming "its just a game, lighten up" are most likely the same ones pitchin hissy's over changes such as tick timers. If you think that tick changes are ruining the game, yet are fine with RP such as this then, though I will be saddened to see only 30 people playing this MUD, I will be happy to know that those 30 people at least have some concept of the game itself.

Heh.

Um, out of those four people, without going into detail, I can name a dozen of some of the best played characters the game has ever had.

By contrast, what have you brought to the game?

Ditto for Gigi.

Before you say they don't have a clue about the game, you should try to know what you are talking about. I guarantee you if you listed the top 5 characters in the last 5 years, you'd come up with a char that was played by one of those players.

Whatever though, keep talking out of your ass. The log was editted because it was from Hell.

It is a pity that CF's "Best and Brightest" had to stoop to something this low. If this was four unknown semi-newbs, I could expect it. But normally CF's greats have some common ####ing sense and know how to do something as read helpfiles and understand not to do certain things.

So before you start attacking the character of people who have yet to make a break through on CF(and yet did not do something stupid), think about who you are defending, a bunch of douche bags that should know better and have proven it with past characters.

First off I haven't bitched on moaned on these forums or in game about what happened to MY CHARACTER. The problem is everyone feels they know the role of my character from one ####ing log. As far as I'm concerned what happened IN GAME is between the immortals and me. Give me a ####ing break. It isn't the immortals that make the game bad. I didn't ask anyone to rally behind me or jump to my defense. I'm not some terminal ill kid in the charity ward. Nor do I want to be a cause for people looking to kiss the ass of the immortals. I say this because if you are attempting to judge something you have no clue about. Now let me say it one more time, get off my ####ing back and let me enjoy the game.

My angst, was in no way directed at you. It was directed at the Children who were whining about what they did to themselves, and their hangers on and parrots.

I at respect you for not taking it ooc like others did.

Never my intention to question your character or RP ability. If it felt that way, I apologize. As Odrirg said, this was for the ones that thought they were treated unfairly. Now for a bit more "talking out of my ass" as it were.

1. Just because I side with the Imms on a certain issue does not mean I'm kissing their ass.

2. I had no idea that I wasn't allowed to speak on the Forum since I had yet to have a character that lived up to the stringent standards of Eskelian. I am properly chastised.

3. To go along with #2, I would hasten to guess that since only a small population of players meet this stringent standard, there will now be much less posting on the forums since only those players should post.

4. There is no way to look at this situation and reasonably come to any conclusion other than what happened was what should and needed to happen. Don't let bias cloud judgement.

Don't call other players clueless if you don't even know who they are.

It'd be like me saying Zorszaul sucked at PK. Its just talking out of my ass. If you don't know the situation and you don't know the people and you don't know anything, then you're just talking out of your ass. Which is exactly what you're doing.

You want to say you agree with what they did fine, but don't say they are clueless.

Hey, Man, FWIW, I thought it was a great, ballsy move for you to attack the Nightwalker when they called it. I've played a few Outlanders myself, and I know what it's like to have to make hard choices in that cabal. Good job.

Dude. You have no idea the situation. You have no idea who plays who, or what the situation is. You have no idea about how much of a 'douche bag' they are.

1) Evil Outlanders and Scions have never been barred from aiding each other.

2) I've never seen a boot for a guy not killing someone who attacked his nightwalker.

Point out where 1 and 2 have caused boots and you'll have a leg to stand on.

Otherwise you're calling people names for no reason and its rather pathetic and sad.

As the person who wrote the majority of the RP background (helpfiles, IC texts, powers echoes, etc.) for Scion, and who wrote the majority of the RP background for Outlander in conjunction with Amaranthe, I'll say that you aren't nearly the authority on either topic that you present yourself as being.

All the name-calling and telling everyone they don't know what they're talking about needs to stop. You're speaking from ignorance from any number of angles.

1) Evil Outlanders and Scions have never been barred from aiding each other.

False.

2) I've never seen a boot for a guy not killing someone who attacked his nightwalker.

I have. It's also why we coded it so the Nightwalkers up and leave if they're fighting and you're running, among related code changes.

Even in a cabal where you do hold rank over a called NPC (Empire's centurions, Tribunal's special guards), you'd get busted down for abusing the hired help.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Right, so this turns into where Valg states he runs the Outlander cabal too.

Am I the only one who saw Lyristeon post on people's PBF's that he doesn't mind evil outlanders being buddy buddyish with Scions? Where's Amaranthe in all this?

I'm well aware of why Scions are as they are, and how Nightwalkers were used to tank. I've never been booted from your cabal .

Regardless, you said it yourself. They were held to a higher standard because they were in Hell. And you being the authority you are on Outlander took it upon yourself to correct them when their own patrons wouldn't.

You have zero idea what you're talking about. That's all I'm saying.

To the other players: You'd be better off with monkeys and typewriters than trusting anything he's posted.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Feel free to email imps@carrionfields.com stating that you know I unfairly uninducted Outlanders for some reason over the strenuous objections of their patron Immortals. I am confident your email will get all the attention it deserves.

But you won't be wasting our time on this forum for a week or so.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

1) The fact that you claim to know these four people ooc. Which leads to two things.

A) Of course you would stand up for them, even when they are wrong.
B) They were using ooc contacts, and ignoring every IC cabal role they had, just to get through hell.


2) The fact that you think having played someone good in the past, excuses you from following your role in later cases.

"I played So-and-so, so I should be allowed to drop role so I can group with who I need to to get the Leet gear!"


You are hilarious, Esk.

1) I knew Arvam was playing Lariya and I knew Sebeok was playing Yanacek. I also knew about Thror and Manerei and about Padgett. What's your point? I know who half the game plays, and not all of it because people tell me. I just have a good instinct for these things. I knew Amora played that arial warrior too, I knew Wilhath was that dwarven healer.

A) This is saying I like them. Which, I don't care for two of them. I still grant them respect tho.
B) They'd have to know each other for that.

2) If you're going to say they know nothing about the game, you're making an assertion that they know nothing about the game.

3) You're Gigi. That really sums it up.

>Anyone...ANYONE...who doesn't think the outlanders, and the
>scions, uninductions were COMPLETELY called for, is a total.
>Complete. Moron.

I'm more inclined to say the Outlanders deserved it more. Not because they grouped with Scions, but because of what they had to do to get into Hell in the first place. The nightwalker being attacked...meh. I've accidentally been targeted by evil groupmates when I was playing an evil, and I didn't feel like it was breaking role not to immediately attack them. My character recognizes that, in the heat of battle, someone might misfire a spell and hit something other than the intended target. Now, if he'd let the walker sit there and die, then I'd say that's grounds for immediate uninduction. Or, possibly, for all subsequent nightwalkers that person calls to be aggro to him. But he didnt'. He released it, which was the best thing he could do in the situation.

HOWEVER. Once the order was given for the Scions to kill the offending cabal member, and they sat around doing nothing, then I say let them have it. Maybe not the healer, since at least he was quick to attack, though why he didn't faerie fire a transmuter is somewhat confusing.

>I don't believe that losing players that will :
>make potions as ragers, or break role in equally astounding an
>mind-bogglingly stupid ways (like those in the log I read),
>then complain when they are caught,
>Will be missed, at least by me.

I can't speak for all of them, but at least one of the players involved has had a number of (imho) "notably well-roleplayed" characters. Maybe others would disagree with me, but I think it would be unfortunate if that person stopped playing. We'll see.

I don't buy that it was accidental for a second. As far as I could tell, with all the clipping, they were just standing there. So it shouldn't have been an accidental targeting error.

Except, the reason given to them for uninduction was that they grouped with Scions. The guy released the nightwalker. In my disgust, I'd probably not have jumped in either.

It seems the accepted wisdom amoung the morons that the outlanders were uninducted for using coins.

That *MIGHT* have been part of it.

But, I cordially invite one of those assclowns to read the helpfile for Scion, and the Helpfile for outlander, and then try to make a coherent explanation why any outlander would ever *NOT* get in trouble for grouping with a member of a group that's whole purpose seems to be the whole-sale invasion of thar-eris by extra planar creatures.

yeah.

Next time you play a rager, group with a shifter....then get inducted and claim it was because you failed to attack a warrior who was carrying a potion...

That about equals the utter lack of intelligence shown by some players in this entire situation


Let me add, that some people are also complaining that this doesn't meet the "does this make cf fun" test.

They say this is a game, and it's supposed to be fun.


You know what *I* find fun? It's people thinking up roles, and sticking to them, and seeing how they interact.

What we had in that log, was clearly a number of people utterly ignoring their roles, for COMPLETELY powergaming purposes.

That might be fun for the powergamers who drop role in a moment just to get some leet eq, but it's not fun for me. And I'd rather play on a mud that didn't have those kinds of people about. And I think it perfectly fine for some imms to drop uninducts on people who drop role just to powergame.

But I do believe that breaking role for personal gain has caused more problems than it has created fun, overall.