I want to start by saying that CF has a lot to offer. There's some amazing richness and depth in just about every aspect of the game. I was especially blown away by all the thief paths and skills. I got really excited just imagining what it'd be like to play one at the higher levels. The staff also seems very involved and I found the help files and forums let me get into the game enough that I could start learning my way around.

Though I enjoyed myself at times, I also found that the game is brutal on new players. Soloing is slow and dangerous, especially for someone in 'outfit' gear. And groups can be very hard to find. I think there are players out there who are willing to share what they know and who do so generously. I certainly met a few. But the norm was more vets who either ignored me or pked me, and with the gear and skills I had I don't blame them.

I get the impression that those at the top, especially those who've been playing for 10+ years, like the game just the way it is. I can understand that. And indeed, I often found that half the player base at any given time was level 51, with just a few stragglers at different levels beneath. I don't know that anything will ever change, but I noticed that when you first create a character you're asked specifically if you're new to mudding and CF. That's a great opportunity to provide some additional perks aimed at a gentler introduction. Maybe give an experience bonus to new players and those who group with them, something that would encourage vets to play with them instead of just rolling them over and over in pk. Another thing you could do is give new players immunity to pk unless they strike first. That would give further incentive for vets to group with them instead of killing them, but just enough temptation for new players to take a chance every now and then.

The biggest turn off for me was eating. The one interesting thing I can do alone when I can't find groups is exploring. But if I'm not killing I'm not earning. And if I'm not earning I'm not buying food. And if I'm not buying food I'm starving. So past a certain level exploring just stops feeling like an option. The most fun I had was on a level 1 character I made just to walk around in the game. I just walked around and looked at things and rp'd with the people around me and died over and over again. It was the only time death/hunger/other players didn't matter and I really enjoyed it. I can see how those things might be more exciting for someone who's had a lot of experience with the game, and how they can add nuances and depth, but from the perspective of a new player that can all be very overwhelming.

I know that some out there will say that the game just isn't for me. I don't believe that's true. I like pk, I like rp, and I like a challenge. But when everything is tuned around people who've been playing the game for several years, those with much less experience suffer dramatically. I think maybe the game has only one gear. I'd like to learn how to drive, just not at 75 miles per hour.

All in all, I'm sad to go. I was really excited to play the thief implementation especially, but under the current situation I don't expect to advance beyond 16. It's been very difficult to find groups and very slow to solo. In fact I'm at negative experience points right now and have been for some time.

I decided to leave some feedback here because I came across the marketing section in the forum and was surprised to learn that CF is interested in attracting new players. It seems to me that new players are constantly trickling in. I see them all the time in newbie chat. But I imagine most are also then trickling back out. I think the real challenge may be retention, and one solution may be a gentler introduction to the game. I hope my feedback helps and I hope you all will consider the possibility that maybe both vets and new players are right about the game. Maybe there's room enough for both perspectives.

Thanks and Best Wishes,
Ozz of the 16th Rank

But by all that is holy can we please change food?

IT IS THE MOST ANNOYING PART OF CF BY FAR!!!

I remember the first time I played Cf. I was just leaving Mud School at lvl 6 and started to getting owned by PK, now that time CF was hard, then the world changed a lot, new cabals, new areas, new skills, new clases, new races, then my friends and I grow up, and started to study and work, we left CF for 7 year more less... and 15 days ago I started to play again, I found that many things changed, first of all I didnt expect to see a svirf ranger, that season race, rangers that could be hunters,beastmaster, etc. (thats something that I dont know If I hate or love of CF, the specialization of clases), more xp = easy to rank, I feel that it takes less time training skills, and ofcourse less time rolling my stats! wow sometimes I spent an hour just rolloing for good stats.
And other thing that I noticed is that the players changed. how is that? the time I played CF when yoo lost a battle, people liked to loot all your gear, some poeple looted the items cast duo and drop them so you could see your gear but not touch it, and there was the player that sacrifece your gear all that was usually = rage delete. Now days they take 1 or 2 items of your gear!!! I was like WTF?!

In other words today the game is more friendly and easy than it was before.

See you in the fields

It is indeed a changed game, and so far I agree it has been a net positive as it seems you are saying.

Just wanted to FYI, skills DO take a significantly less time to train in general. Rates were upped, bonuses to skill gains while grouped have been put in, and we have random bonuses for skill learning. Oh, and if enough people are online there is bonuses to skill learning. Too few people and you get XP bonuses.

This is very good idea actually. Make it level 5 instead of 1 (in the newbie academy), so you could enter much more areas. And do it 2 days after the last crash/reboot (you can look at when it happened via "time" command). You don't even have to know any paths, just use the map from qhcf.net.


Actually it takes less than 15 hours to go everywhere you can and look at every mob you can in CF for level 5 character. Take everything from the ground and try to sell it to all possible shops you find.


I know it's VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY boring, but still this is the easiest and fastest way to learn many very important things. You will also find some other very important bonuses to doing so.

I agree with you about the game being too brutal for newbies and I do think the staff has an ongoing goal of trying to make that less true. (And some progress has been made - for example, "outfit" is much more expanded than it used to be, and once upon a time, newbies could starve as early as level 1.

I do hope you'll consider giving it another try. Just in case (or if someone else reads this) a few tips about food. (Which I *don't* think is a silly concern for you to have. I think some who may be dismissive of this, may really not empathize with how confusing the game came be to a new person. Clearly from your articulate post, you are not a buffoon.)

Regarding food - I'm going to share this, because this is the kind of detail I don't think should be kept secret.

- Many players learn a trick of stocking up on super-cheap bread in the Academy before level six.

- Galadon: There is safe food to eat in the Weald just outside Galadon, on the ground (fruit) and some grubs hidden beneath the floor in the Lumberyard.

- There's a soup kitchen in Voralian City, near the recall location. If you enter it as a hungry and impoverished newbie, they will feed you. (Now I'm wondering if we should offer this kind of welfare in the other cities.)

- Careful about Nre's suggestion of eating random steaks on the ground. Sometimes, this can end up poisoning you. However, if you group with a ranger, have them butcher some for you and stock up. Similar with other classes, such as healers, who can provide you with free food.

- Commerce! Make an effort to sell extra items when in town. This will not only net you some commerce experience, but give you a little extra spending money. Lightweight items of type "treasure" are this least cumbersome and often the easiest to sell. When you 'list' items at a shop, there's also an indication of which items a shopkeeper will buy.

- Once you earn a little money, squirrel some away in the bank so you have accessible funds for items like food if you end up losing all your stuff.

- Finally, I often recommend rangers as an ideal newbie class, because they are hearty, can solo a lot, and have a lot of great skills to assure survivability - including being able to access their own food and water, and conceal themselves in a manner as to be unseen by almost everyone.

>- Galadon: There is safe food to eat in the Weald just outside
>Galadon, on the ground (fruit) and some grubs hidden beneath
>the floor in the Lumberyard.

Fields of Balator also have a lot of figs, olives and grapes you can eat. Enough for you to eat your belly full and harvest for future use. There was also some animal in the wilderness near Tir-Talath that dropped meats when you kill it. Pigs in the orc village drop steaks if you are an orc.

>- Careful about Nre's suggestion of eating random steaks on
>the ground. Sometimes, this can end up poisoning you. However,
>if you group with a ranger, have them butcher some for you and
>stock up. Similar with other classes, such as healers, who can
>provide you with free food.

The problematic with steaks is that the steaks made by rangers are good to eat, while the steaks made by orcs are poisonous to non-orcs. So, if you see steaks of evil mobs lying about in Forest of Nowhere, they are likely to be ranger steaks. Steaks in civilized areas or steaks made of elves? The likelihood that they are orc steaks is high. Also consider how close the location where the steak is lying is to Grinning Skull village. However, if you find steaks made of goodly dryads in Emerald Forest, those are likely made by rangers, as the area has hidden ranger mobs that assist, only seen by rangers. Thus, ranking there is generally done by groups with a ranger only.

Where and what meat is likely to produce good guess on whether eating the steak is a good idea. Just prepare to endure the poisoning when eating a steak found on ground for the first time. If the steak is good, then it is likely that other steaks in it's vicinity are likely to be good to eat as well.

I've been playing for a good year and a half and I can definitely relate. I got my ass handed to me for my first few characters. And be aware, it can be extra tough from levels 42 and hero, because you'll be up against some real badass mofos that not only have great gear but have also mastered most of their important skills and refined their strategies.

That being said, you too can become one of the badasses. It takes serious determination and the rewards/experiences in the game for those that can take it to that level are what make it so unique...and addicting. I definitely haven't gotten there yet either, but occasionally things will go right and it will come together, and you'll win a fight or show other people how to do something new and then you are hooked.

Being a thief is not a terrible choice. You just won't win a lot of fights one-on-one, unless maybe as a thug. People won't really see you as a valuable group-mate. You're kind of a utility class, but that can be great for learning the game. Plus you'll be able to steal a lot great gear later in life. In my opinion, being something that lets you see hidden is the best way to start the game, then branch out based on your personal interest. Things like studying lockpicking path can help you learn and gain friends (and gold) as well.

The food thing- food is really easy to come by. As others have said, especially if you are okay using gold. Food is cheap and copper is easy to come by. Just ask around the thieves guild.

In general, I'd say as long as you don't take your first few characters too seriously, you'll do fine if you just keep going. Once you get into the mid-30s, join a cabal. get your core skills perfects, and then just go for it. Play until you con-die and you'll learn a ton about how to fight and survive and explore. Starting over can be okay too at times.

Ranking goes in waves-- it just takes a good group a few hours and you're shooting up there, so don't worry when times are slow. When you can't find a group, spend your time exploring or practicing. If you are a thief--ask the thief guild leaders for help. Think about how it fits into your role and theirs, and approach it that way. You're only limited by your imagination.

When you screw up and die, just think every time about why it happened and what you can do differently. If you don't know, use helpfiles, ask, or even try out the other classes that are giving you problems. Sometimes, though, it's just a fight you won't ever win and a huge part of the game is knowing when to run. Always have an exit strategy, and carry teleport/return potions. Also--a huge part of the game is learning to time your commands/lag properly, and it's taken me nearly two years to really feel like I'm just starting to get the hang of that. Playing a hero until you con-die will get you the feel for these things over time.

You're gonna get PKed a lot. Period. People don't know your a newbie, and even if they do they may still kill you regularly, depending on their role. Being in a cabal will also bring inherent enemies.

There's a few jerks around, but most people are pretty solid if you give them a chance. Have fun and don't give up- you will have some glorious victories and some terrible defeats.

Food - I wonder if you've realized this, but body parts of your enemies are edible. Sure, guts and some creatures like trolls and kobolds are are not good to eat, but most of the stuff isn't good bad for eating. Feeling hungry? Mass murder lower level creatures and gorge your belly full. CF also has plenty of free food items you can find by exploring the areas.

Grouping - CF has experience bonus when ranking in groups, the optimal group size being three characters. This way, you are already encouraged to group with others, including newbies. Thieves, however, aren't the most desirable groupmates around. This may somewhat impact your experience in finding groups. Also, you must ask for the group more actively since you're of the hiding class and others can't see you very well. As thief, one of your duties is to detect hidden foes for other groupmates. Thus, you should constantly have detect hidden on be checking 'where' every five to ten seconds or so when there are other hidden characters in the who list when traveling in groups.

PK - CF is die and learn. If you get killed, think what you did wrong and learn from that. As thief, you should not be visible for some giant for some giant to see to bash you. Thus, you should control when you are visible and be very aware of who is nearby when being visible.

Something I do when I'm playing a character that can't (or shouldn't) buy food is to go someplace that rangers rank and collect the steaks.

I'd say if the MUD has been up for more than a few hours there is a very good chance that after checking 2-3 areas (like the Forest of Nowhere) you will have a container full of food that ought to last a few RL days.

Another option would be to just go ahead and play a ranger which by the late teens can supply itself with unlimited food and water. Added bonuses include an excellent ability to solo, some self-healing and possibly curing, and of course stealth.

>Though I enjoyed myself at times, I also found that the game
>is brutal on new players.

I agree with this, and would like to find a better balance.

>but I noticed that when you
>first create a character you're asked specifically if you're
>new to mudding and CF. That's a great opportunity to provide
>some additional perks aimed at a gentler introduction.

This is a slippery slope, and one we've discussed multiple times. If you give them something good, people will just say yes because there is a perceived bonus.

>Maybe
>give an experience bonus to new players and those who group
>with them, something that would encourage vets to play with
>them instead of just rolling them over and over in pk.

This means you'd have to make it somehow visible if you're really going to encourage vets to play with them (e.g. a big flag that says I'm a newbie!) which also means everyone knows your an easy kill.

> Another
>thing you could do is give new players immunity to pk unless
>they strike first. That would give further incentive for vets
>to group with them instead of killing them, but just enough
>temptation for new players to take a chance every now and
>then.

This is exactly the kind of thing a vet would say yes to get. This means that I am guaranteed to never be in a fight I didn't start (which is some of the best advice people give around PK'ing on CF).

>The biggest turn off for me was eating.

This just sounds like hyperbole...really...the biggest turn off in the entire game is the fact you have to eat food sometimes?

>So past a certain level exploring just stops feeling like an
>option.

I think you're doing it wrong. Food is so cheap (jerky or bread in Galadon), that 15 minutes of killing mobs you can solo should give you enough food to last the rest of the day. Even better go grab one or two of the "kill a bunch of wolves" quests which you turn in for cash (which is part of the reason they were created).

>I know that some out there will say that the game just isn't
>for me. I don't believe that's true. I like pk, I like rp, and
>I like a challenge. But when everything is tuned around people
>who've been playing the game for several years, those with
>much less experience suffer dramatically. I think maybe the
>game has only one gear. I'd like to learn how to drive, just
>not at 75 miles per hour.

I'm open to suggestions, but what you've mentioned so far really just skews things more towards the vets.

>Thanks and Best Wishes,
>Ozz of the 16th Rank

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

CF is brutal, no doubt about it. The question as to whether or not it's "too brutal," though, is up for debate. I'm no vet, but I think that it's just about right. Others may disagree.

As far as finding a group goes, I'm surprised you've had difficulty. Granted, a thief is not seen by most as an "ideal" groupmate, but unless there were some RP restrictions in place, a level 16 thief should be able to find a group without a problem unless you're playing odd hours, at least in my experience.

As for food, you say "if I'm not killing I'm not earning" and that couldn't be further from the truth, especially for a thief. A lowbie thief should never worry about having enough gold. There are ways that you can gather literally hundreds of gold as a lowbie thief, so having enough copper to buy food shouldn't be an issue. And if no one's willing to help you figure out how, there are plenty of areas with food just laying on the ground, free for the taking.

The rewards of CF are tremendous if you can ascend the steep learning curve.

If some of the problems you're encountering are because you're playing non-peak times and there's only 8 people online, there's not a lot to do, but much of the rest of the stuff should be easy enough to address.

Good luck.

Thanks. I'll ask around about stealing. When I first got the skill I failed most attempts. When I did succeed I lifted only a single copper coin. I tried again recently was caught by a much lower level mob. Maybe there's just something that I've missed there. I'll look into it.

No lies about the group thing. I'm on at different hours. It's been very difficult. That's just been my experience.

But I found your words encouraging. Thanks for sharing them.

I'll throw out that most everyone including the vets feel noobish at times. I have played for years like you've said but I still get those "Ah, Hah!" moments all the time when I watch someone do something or am shown where or how something works. Some of it is truly luck, but a lot of it is, simply not giving up and asking all the time(Just shy of being overly annoying to people). You don't have to ask mr pk person. Elves, Storm Giants, most high level people with a title who don't sound evil will normally help you answer any question that comes to your mind except the obvious game mechanics which is available through noob channel. Once you have the answers to the more basic questions then you will have your foundation to continually build on and that is building blocks for a chance at making a good char.

Oh, and groups.. sorry you'll get that because a lot of people are spending the lower levels training their skills that they will or want to have high in % for pk and later in levels. Sometimes though, you'll get a group and gain a bunch of levels at once so it really is hit or miss. As before, always talking is the best thing you can do for groups because many may not see you to ask you.

The other thing I often forget is that sometimes it isn't about how good at pk, or what kind of gear, or how many times you get your butt whooped, but about the way the experience left you feeling. As example, I had a Banditking once upon a time with 1 pk and he was my favorite thief, go figure.

>Oh, and groups.. sorry you'll get that because a lot of people
>are spending the lower levels training their skills that they
>will or want to have high in % for pk and later in levels.

Yes. Most of the responses I get are of that nature. People are definitely polite about it. And then of course I get some pretty funny responses too. But they just don't want to group!

I will admit I got lucky today a met a great thief who taught me a thing or two and who is definitely a kindred spirit. I think you're right about luck. I haven't been playing that long, and maybe things will start coming through.



>The other thing I often forget is that sometimes it isn't
>about how good at pk, or what kind of gear, or how many times
>you get your butt whooped, but about the way the experience
>left you feeling.

Very true.

1: Get to hero.
2: Get a PK-kill
3: Join a cabal
4: Follow a god and find his shrine.

etc etc, as you progress, raise your goals. And as everyone has said, ask goodies for help.

Don't go about asking the Emperor of the Empire or the Chancellor of the eternal night, that's bound for failure. They might even trick you to see you dead. (I doubt most would if they suspect you're a newbie though.)

Myself, I managed to hero my second char ever. (Back then, the xp you lost didn't have a cap, so your XP-hole could have an infinite deep. I learned A LOT from that character.

Second char was an applicant all the way to lvl 44 and never managed to get inducted.

Third char... Got inducted and did fairly well, had a cabal member show me a lot of really neat things, and after this char, I really started to get the hang of PKing, killing almost as much as I died.
(I still ran low on con or con-died every char.)

I'd say after my 4th hero (I heroed all my chars after this almost) I had become a mediocre CFer, having a lot of fun, I think these first chars were really the most fun of them all. The better I've become and the more I've learned about CF, the more I need to challenge myself to have fun. Writing more and more complicated roles, creating class/race combinations that are odd or doesn't synergize too well.

All in all, enjoy these early years of "ignorance", because they truly are bliss.

Always shoot first and then call whatever you hit the target.

That's how I learned.

I set very simple SINGULAR goals - and focused a character entirely around that. so then my subsequent characters, with their different focus, could more easily pull off the previous goals.


>learned how to hero
>when I hero, I can cabal more easily
>learn cabals
>get 10 pks in one car
>get 20
>get 10 with no deaths
>etc.


Setting goals really does help you FOCUS on it, so then subsequent attempts can pull it off more easily, which allows you to learn MORE in that subsequent character, and so on so forth.