I found that in every form that i have, i cannot hit warrior with the polearm (all tiers). Will enlarge help with that at least a little bit, or I am fated to forever avoid polearm warriors?

Thanks

In the log below, you can see a lion vs pole spec fight. As you can see, the lion did hit the polespec quite a bit. (Although the lion was a scion with ABS, so he could take quite a beating too..)

Also, unless the warrior is blind or you have someone else tanking, just forget about fumble. Swipe, on the other hand, is generally a good idea vs pole/spear specs.

http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?3,812185,812185#msg-812185

I will post my logs later, you will see why I was curious aobut tactics. Now I just see that some forms are good vs polearms and some suck

Thanks for the log!

If he isnt a rager, then he is probably enlarged which makes his tanking more viable. Try to revert and dispel his enlarge. As long as he is wielding his polearm there is very minimal chance that he has a way to lag you, unless you are fleeing.

By dispeling his enlarge he will tank worse, and he may even switch to his other spec. If that happens, you get the chance to fight him without using his polearm. That may or may not be more beneficial to you.

As well as nodisarm/nremove polearms. I'm trying to find the way, but still couldn't research anything smart

You can't be enlarged while shifted into another form.

How to fight polearmers as a shifter (without ganging them)?
Because with all protections/spells/abs I have zero a chance.
Help?

nt

nt

In which case, you're not just talking about polearm warriors.

Most polearm warriors don't have these things.

Want to name me some nodisarm polearms?

Want to name me any half-decent noremove polearms?

Or are you complaining that as a shifter you struggle against a villager? In which case, it's not pole specs, it's village pole specs.

Incidentally, you could have said fist of the titans too, but every warrior that takes that gives up something else.

nt

I don't think the AP one is, although I might be thinking that just because I unholy blessed it.

The others are certainly not easy to come by.

Really, they are exceptional to see in play, so this guys original point "shifters can't be polespecs" shouldn't be looking at this case.

Like someone else pointed out, you could try fumble. Some forms also have swipe (disarm). You could try using wands/scrolls to drop his strength and thereby disarming him if you don't have a form with a skill that can do so. I'm sure other players might be able to come up with more ideas, too.

Ultimately though, part of playing a shapeshifter is accepting the fact that the RNG might give you forms that just aren't well suited for fighting certain builds, then getting creative about it.

There are dozens of scenarios where you'll have a form, or worse, two forms that are plain outgunned by a build. Sometimes it's as simple as needing dam reduction on a dodgy form and other times it's being stuck with poisonous bite as your primary attack against a guy with Quaggoth blood. The scenarios are endless.

You benefit from that dynamic as well when you go up against a guy whose build is PK fodder against fly/to or pounce or some other aspect of your form.

If you're looking for a class that allows for serious customization (that you actually control), especially on the fly, shapeshifter probably isn't for you.

Please remember you have an IMM flag now and people might take your posts seriously.

If, as the OP put it "with all protections/spells/abs", I'd say revert;c fumble is worth a shot if he's exhausted his melee options and insists on trying SOMETHING against a build that he's obviously not having much luck with (presumably prepped) in the first place.

If what you got out of my response was "Use fumble as a first resort against any/all warriors", then you didn't interpret it the way I intended and I hope this post clarifies that for the OP and you.

so you have to blind them first, which only one land form does and some pecking forms do. SO you might have to blind with a talisman, scroll or wand, then fumble. In this short time you are getting your arse handed to you in melee as even a 100% parry shifter tanks like a brick compared to a voker, conjurer or muter for some reason.

I would say, avoid them.

So will also be lagging himself.

Because he said he was fully dam reduxed.

"If you're looking for a class that allows for serious customization (that you actually control), especially on the fly, shapeshifter probably isn't for you."

a) ANY shapeshifter form becomes totally useless vs ANY noob with the polearm (tested on 6 different 1st tier form). Maybe there is a form that can do something vs polearm, but I am unaware.

b) Fumble is not an option vs battle or vs nodisarm/noremove weapons.

Are you saying that whole shapeshifter class must be totally rocked by anyone wielding a polearm?

That's nonsense. There must be a way to at least increase chances and not losing 100% out of the 100%. I just didn't find it and thought maybe someone have an idea, but your ideas are pretty useless, no offense.

Your bite command should still go in every round. So even though you do not hit them during normal combat rounds you'll make some damage. So you could use that to flee heal up and go back and bite.

The balance in CF is that there will always be a match up that you will have trouble with no matter what race/class combo you choose.

edited to add this:
And no we aren't saying that the hole shapeshifter class gets rocked by polearms. But perhaps your forms do.

Please, name the forms that are hitting polearm warriors good.

I do not flame, but I from what I have seen/tested, jaguar, rhino, lion, gorilla, porcupine, wolverine are not hitting them. If you have logs, would be great to read them or have the prooflink.

Neither were PK powerhouses, but I can't recall polearm specs (and there were a few in Battle.. there always are) giving me issues. I had the gator and rhino.

Obviously Porcupine isn't even in this discussion (it's toasted by any two-hand weapon, obviously). The rest though, I would guarantee you are a combination of RNG, small sample size or selective memory (ie, you only remember the bad times, you don't notice when things go normally).

I don't think anyone needs to prove anything to you, just as you don't need to prove anything to us. You have veterans and extremely skilled PKers (no, I'm not counting myself as that) telling you something. You can either believe it, or not.

But if you prefer, you can just continue to assume that pole specs are an extremely poor matchup for your shifter. That's fine. When I played a Shaman, I knew that Liches were an extremely poor matchup. As an Orc, I know to avoid Druids. Every class is good against others, and bad against others. Think of CF as an extremely advanced game of Rock-Paper-Scissors. Sure, sometimes Scissors can beat Rock, but don't expect it to happen a lot.

Nor trying to prove anything, just want to see logs, if there are any. If you have it, or know names on which I could do the search, I would be grateful.

My rhino sucked big deal vs polearmers, too bad I've lost most of my longs and of that rhino too. It was at the time when rhino was added to the game, so maybe since that time form was changed, I don't know.

I don't have much info myself as I haven't played a shifted since after the revamp of the class.

But I remember my friend got the Pachyderm and this one battle fellah got really upset trying to fight that one.

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=4&topic_id=74492&mesg_id=74492&listing_type=search

So get a pachyderm and try it out and let me know if I'm wrong =)

Edited to add:
And here is a log of it in action. It's not getting any attacks in during normal combat but still does well I would say. (as stated in my previous reply)
http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?3,828815

There's also the forms (one, at least) that have the equivalent of weaponbreak. That's one way to ruin the guy's day, assuming you have the a/b/s to not die to him while trying to break his weapon.

I've heard it's not too good in melee, or is it not true?
Can it lag opponent at all?

But yes, weaponbreaker seems to be a good idea!

It's got the shatter skill, where you can try to use your horns to weaponbreaker. Pretty sure they count as like "bone" material, and it's not nearly as handy as w/ an axe spec, but it's available for the trying.

It may count as bone but I fought Mubs recently and in the 2nd round of combat I shattered his conquest axe, which caused him to flee at disgusting cuts and run away for some reason.

So a huge heavy steel axe is doable!


Only gripe with Ram is the lack of lagging ability. Everyone gets away convulsing!

Just..2 rnd lag for user, 1rnd lag for target. Gotta time it right!

A lot of forms get a skill that does unblockable damage, beyond bite. If you didn't get one in the forms lottery this time around, then it's understandable you're going to have trouble with very defensive melee types. It may not be enough against certain warriors even with substantial damage reduction, but them's the breaks.

Edit to add: I'd have to look harder than I care to for a polearm specific example, but I do recall going up against a few ragers with Nreykre who I hardly ever hit in combat. With proper prepping, gore spam was enough to fend them off almost every time.

My guess is that the fact that many shapeshifter forms have an achilles heel or two is by design.

Suffice to say, I'd be inclined to agree that as a shapeshifter with a form that isn't adequately suited for fighting battle giant polearm spec, there probably aren't any tactics short of calling a gang that are going to reliably swing the fight by a high enough margin to satisfy you.

For what it's worth: I bet you've played builds that made someone else think, "Damn, my build just CAN'T beat this guy no matter what I do." In some cases, that person may actually be correct. In others, they're just not being clever enough. Either way, I've always been under the impression that dilemmas like that were by design, especially in the case of a class where your build and therefore your range of tactics are randomly assigned to you in the first place.

How often to you fight someone with a nodisarm polearm, hmm?

Let's look at it this way. Who deals more damage? A polespec or a lion with protections up? Probably the lion. Same with a number of other forms.

What you seem to be saying is "Waah. Why can't I ever beat a BATTLE warrior WITH the head who has a NODISARM weapon WITH MY FORMS that are not a good matchup." when in fact, most polespecs will not be using a nodisarm or noremove weapon, and battle is only one out of many cabals (albeit one with a higher concentration of warriors).

And before you run out there, and find the fumble tactic fails when you try it, I'm not saying it will work the majority of times. I AM saying that it will allow you to get the better of a polespec sometimes, and if, as you claim, you're all buffed up, you won't really be at any risk, outside of the village.

Since you're bound to contrive another situation, I'll add "unless of course, you let yourself get hamstrung, arteried, hurled and silenced first".