I was under the impression that this was a RP enforced game, yet it seems that PK is the exception to this. Now, I've played DIKU PK muds before, and I really don't mind getting killed. I expect it when learning a new game. However all of my p-deaths so far (not even lvl 20 yet) have been from people I have never interacted with. I have nothing of value (can't even afford to practice anything, heh), and I am neutral neutral, so no alignment issues.

I can understand someone cheesing out and going with the whole "oh I'm a silent killer" thing every now and then, but everyone does that? When I try to interact with those who are trying/who have killed me, I get nothing. No response. No reason, not even an excuse. No "oh i hate mages" or anything. Fellow mages of my own race kill me without a single word. To be fair I did get a "next time don't teleport coward" out of one, but I really don't see how that is RP.

Anyway, I'm out to find a different game, just needed to vent a bit I guess. I really like the classes in this game, just wish there was more RP.

It has meaning and is not just idle chit-chat...
If you want to play a tough guy you have to be able to back it up somehow. If you piss off the wrong guy you _will_ regret it. Finding a true friend that helps you out if you are in trouble is so much more rewarding...

Sure, you can get more RP in other games but will it be better? What would you prefer: To save the damsel in distress in PK:Optional MUDs after arranging a battle or save her life by reciting a recall scroll just in time before succumbing to the Emperor and his mob?

CF originally began as a pk mud. Only after 5 or so years did roleplay become encouraged -> mandatory -> integral to the game/character.

I'd say that most of us operate as pkers first and the framework of pk is built around roles/roleplay. CF'ers do not roleplay first and let playerkilling develop from there. That's a general statement but you'll likely find it true in most scenarios.

I think that number is more like 1 and less like 5.

I remember when I had a character from the Master cabal during the first year, and the RP enforcement thing seemed to happen literally overnight.

I logged in, got into a nasty pk fight, and then said over the CB channel, "Damn, I just got taken down to 5%" The previous day talk like that was very common, and then that day I got talked to by an imm about what the goal of CF was in regards to RP. I think little Neppy was a heroimm at the time.

I don't think I started until 1998 and while roleplay was mandatory then it didn't seem integral to characters as a whole. It was still pretty smash and grab mass pk back then with a few stalwarts of roleplay showing all of us how to do it.

You have to go understand that I go back far enough to when people would talk about their car or their homework on cabal channel.

I think after about the first year of the game, that didn't happen anymore, and while RP wasn't always great, it was encouraged and on an upswing.

nt

Morgath's (RL) girlfriend, cbing on the Entropy channel:

"I gotta pee!"

So yeah. RP has evolved a little since then.

But there are also douchebags.

Sounds like you've met some of the douchebags.

Bear in mind though, you don't necessarily understand someone's rp but it could be there.

For example, people criticised a drow ap of mine for having a human name, but having a human name was integral to her role. (She was given a human name by a Matron Mother who thought it would be a novel torment -- hence she hated humans for most of her life. Most she would try to kill on sight, quite often with no explanation, and those in her cabal she wouldn't travel with, but didn't necessarily explain why.)

RP is enforced, but explaining it to third parties isn't. So if I'm a guy who hates mages and I kill a mage, nothing obligates me to respond to him when he subsequently asks, "Dude, why did you kill me?"

That said, someone who only ever talks to people when it's absolutely necessary probably won't win any special perks for his scintillating role-play.

Some people will kill you. Evils kill a lot of the time because they are evil. It's not about explaining to their prey, they enjoy the hunt of it. Essentially, RP does not mean we all run around emoting and chatting non-stop. We do that, but there are other times where it's all about trying to PK and get people. After 200 or so hours of a char life and the 20th fight against the same guy, you both know each other, and you know you're going to go at it everytime you see each other. RP builds up. A grunt the first time might become more the next time you meet a player.

I find RP is as was said below, you get what you put into it. And saying why did you kill me? Well, that's a start, and sometimes you find a person to give you a good interaction, sometimes not.

If you're RP hungry. And I mean you really want to get into RP, and at the same time learn CF's enviroment, and do it in relative safety, play a herald. Granted, the cabal is pretty much non-existant, but there are still a few out there I hope, and it is a nice way to learn CF, get into RP, bring others into RP (everyone in the inn usually is there for RP) or will because it is a less threatening enviroment.

I can say I have been killed so many times cause I thought, I'll just talk with this guy while I'm on Eastern, what's the worst that could happen? Check where. Nobody here. Sweet. I'm safe. Mid sentence that I'm typing in for my reply and I see that I'm yelling about how I was just bashed. Then I usually say DAMN IT! to myself for being that stupid. In other words, people don't give you a break and don't announce their intentions and send you a tell saying "I'd like to kill you, are you busy? Could you come see me at 5 at the large crossroads? Great, thanks, have fun and good luck!" That would be horrible. And while typing out extended emotes and lengthy conversations is fun as hell when you're having just insanely good interactions, it can also lead to you getting caught with your pants down and so most people won't do it where they are in a spot where they are vulnerable.

I smiled and said hello to a storm giant Maran that walked up to me in Voralian that I had never met. I was playing an evil bard. Did she smile back or say hello? No. She bashed the hell out of me. Cause that's what Marans do to evils. If she had said hi, how are you, I think I would have been shocked that she wasn't following her RP by not bashing me into oblivion. (Or that she did not have detect evil up.)

You get what you put into RP. The more you learn about CF, the easier it gets to learn other people's RP too.

A Looooooong time ago I would speak to people before striking.
That gets you killed pretty quick in CF. So most people don't do
it. When you try to get something going after fleeing or even dying
it tends to be looked at as whining instead of an attempt at RP. I'm
really not sure why this is. Lately though, I'm noticing a big pile
of people that are rp'ing like mad, even at the lower levels. Keep at
it. Rp is a self-replicating virus... You keep playing a part and
someone will play off of you even if they aren't the "rp-type". When
you run across the "good" players you will step up your game without
thinking about it. The "support" players give you something to build
on and talking to them causes you to flesh out your own character.
The (admitedly few) "awesome" Rp'ers either inspire you, or challenge
you to keep up, even when you suck they make you look "better" as
long as you try.

As for everyone else... Alot of people don't rp at lower levels
YOU keep doing it. It will prompt others to do so. If you don't have
anything to say/do/idea to make your character less cardboard...
make something up. If I get pked out of nowhere, I just make some
tripe up off the top of my head to talk tot he people involved.
Get 'em talking. There is someone on the other side of the text.
He or she has goals, sometimes they won't involve talking to you.

Talk with your group. Emote stuff. This part is sometimes an issue.
Person X has limited play time, and you spend it chit-chatting with
person Y, then X will get more than a little irate. So I try to talk
when resting waiting for mobs to re-pop. gt Sooo, you guys like
fishin'? Whatever man, just get 'em talkin'. Bring it to life.
"Hey mr. healer-guy, can you take a look at my leg? On the way
through the woods to get here I think I ran into a patch of
something and have a nasty looking rash." If they are in a hurry
to reach a new level, don't push it or anything. Just give people
an opening or lay out a hook.

If you get some good interactions going that make you FEEL something,
lay it out in your role. It'll give you something to build on later.
While I build my characters this way, I tend to not put stuff in my
role. I know I should, but when I have "down time" I'm usually too
paranoid and watching around me for who's gonna kill me next.

When people don't RP with you, try to RP with them. If you get nothing
talk to someone else. Give it a try, I think you'll be surprised at
the layer sitting under the one you've seen so far.

What I've discovered is that (in some cases) you'll get as much RP out of a situation as you put in.

If someone kills you for no discernable reason, don't assume that they don't have a reason. Granted, there are mindless players piloting mindless characters who just kill anything they see, but that's not the case much of the time.

If someone kills you, try to find out why. You won't always get an answer, but often you'll at least be offered the Bloodoath or told to abandon your foolish ways, magician!

Also, and your mileage may vary, I've found that RP gets better once you join a cabal. The cb channel allows for interactions that won't be found for an uncaballed character.

In addition if you're really, really looking for RP you could try following a religion. When it works correctly (and it doesn't always because you can't guarantee that your imm will match up timewise with you) you'll get RP out of your chosen immortal AND you'll have a reason to RP with anyone you run across, because people never get tired of talking about their religion.

And never forget the words you see when you log in. It's not 'By which name do you wish to be hugged?'

While being randomly attacked makes sense between orcs, dwarves, elves - the combat mechanics are so laggy that it doesn't make the fighting very meaningful. It's just a game of who jumps who, and frankly, that doesn't involve meaningful strategy and doesn't make for fun RP.

The whole 'WHERE' function alone is horrible RP, like some magical jumping mechanism whereby everyone can tell in exactly what room someone else is in. Sorry guys, if the PK in this game was more fun and involved more than jumping and spamming some damage, I'd enjoy roleplaying it. As it stands, it feels like wasted effort.

or any stealth class if you want to focus more on tactics. Orcs really are just a very aggresive class in most cases I think. The point to the orc is strike hard, fast, and harder.

If it really were a case of "who jumps who" winning every fight, the agressor would always win, and that's simply not the case.

Being the agressor (knowing when the fight is coming and being able to prep accordingly) is a tremendous advantage and its importance can not be overstated. However, it is not an "I Win" button. The thief who misses his blackjack can often be two-rounded, even at hero. A fully prepped, A/B/S/S invoker can be often be sent packing with a tigerclaw or hurl-throat.

The two things that make the biggest difference in who wins a fight are:

1. Knowledge. Knowing which tactics to use when will make *all* the difference in every fight.

2. Timing. Knowing when to input commands is what separates the Vets from the Noobs. (I'm still distinctly on the Noob side of this one.)

And these factors come from only one source: Experience. CF's steep learning curve will always distinguish the winners from the losers. Someone who has never MUDded before could sit at the controls of a hundred-charge AP decked out in Hell gear and be put down by a Vet controlling a Gnome thief in Prowler gear. That's just the way it is.

As for "Where" being "horrible RP," it's simply a mechanic to make the game function. At the end of the day, it's a game and if it provided 100% realism, it would be no fun at all. Imagine having to squat, ####, and wipe in-game. It would be painfully tedious. "Where" exists to remove some of the tedium of searching for other characters. That's all.

If you're routinely getting your ass kicked I'll echo the advice Tsunami gave below and take it a step further. Play a Ranger, get into Battle, and enjoy.

Any ranger has above-average survivability, add in Resist, Spellbane, Truesight and you've got above-above-average survivablity. Go scout for spell-evasion and worry a lot less about the biggest counter to your tactics, the area-spell. By being in Battle you'll have clear cut motivations for your actions and you can RP in earnest. Also, the entire game becomes no-recall, no-teleport, so you're forced to find your way around on foot. By making the learning curve that much steeper you'll learn to climb faster.

I get an assload of RP out of this game, but it's because I go looking for it. I don't find it everywhere, but you'll quickly realize who's into RPing back with you and whether they're your enemy or your cabal-buddy you can do it to your heart's content.

Seriously.

"Tremendous advantage" coupled with being new to Carrion Fields makes getting jumped a perma-death sentence and investing time and energy into a character only to get griefed by some player you've never spoken to doesn't strike me as being fun. I don't doubt that there are some fine players and decent people at Carrion Fields, but it doesn't take many jerks prowling for PK and spamming WHERE to ruin the experience. I created Hrotzig because I wanted to RP an Orc and have fun with it. For the most part, I was - but getting chased down and perma-beat by a stranger anytime you want to go anywhere is dumb. I'm not going to go to all that work so somebody else can PK for gear.

Don't play orc. Orcs, unless they are very skilled/knowledgable, are pretty easy to destroy.

Rangers (especially rager rangers) need to know a lot less about item/gear knowledge. You also don't need/can't have preps. You also have pathfinding which means bye bye sleeping to regen movement.

I always recommend ranger first for beginners, basically due to pathfinding. Much easier to explore and learn your way if you don't have to stop for five minutes, every ten minutes, just to get your moves back. With pathfinding you won't need to, unless your running superman laps around Thera or something.

EDIT TO ADD: We all know its rough in the beginning. We have all been there. Trust us when we say stick it out because its worth it or don't. Up to you.

It's not that Carrion Fields itself is rough, it's the lack of discipline vis-a-vis PK and RP and the presence of a WHERE easy button for ease of jumping. I -like- the ideas of CON loss and aging, I don't mind engaging in PK - but I think there's got to be some discipline involved rather than the kind of lolz I've witnessed in just my short time playing.

Think about it. You can't just walk through an area and enjoy taking in the experience, exploring and settling in. You can't stop and chat with people in public THAT'S CRAZY. Every walk to the bank is a paranoid WHERE-spamming race, as if the world were dominated by PK zombies. I'll say it again, I am certain there are decent and nice players out there - but within a few days, the only players REALLY eager to get to know you were PKers after gear, offering nothing by way of RP. I guess I expected more.

Edit: And restricting new players to a single class rather than institute the kind of discipline that would keep the game fun and engaging on an RP level as opposed to a PK-for-gear level, seems silly.

Picking an orc is putting a huge target on your back.

Every goodie will be gunning for you.
Every outlander will be gunning for you.
Many evils will be gunning for you because they're evil.
Nexuns will be gunning for you half the time.
Imperials will be looking to boss you around.
Scions will be looking to boss you around.
Other Orcs will be looking to boss you around.

Orc is a very, very tough row to hoe for the new player. They offer unique RP that's very appealing and I understand wanting to play one, but in an RP/PK MUD they will be on the 'prey' side of the PK equation quite often.

I'm sorry that you didn't get the RP that you were looking for, but did you try to get a response from those who killed you? "Why you bash me down. I not did nothing?" is the kind of thing you'll often hear from Orcs (especially when they clearly, clearly did do something, of course.) Did you offer them your fealty if they'll leave you alone in an appropriately Orcish way? If so, I'm sorry you had a bad experience.

It might have something to do with the fact that a lot (a lot a lot) of Orcs tend to be throwaway characters that are played for laughs and have retarded, possibly obnoxious RP. Getting taken seriously as an RPing Orc is an additional challenge, especially in the wake of ORCORCORCBOATBOATBOAT!!!! (Which you may have missed.)

The fact is that CF has many levels to the experience it offers. From "Newbie Meat" to "Elite Master of Thera." Most people seem to settle in at the "I'm comfortable getting around, but get killed more than I kill, and provide decent RP most of the time." But we all start at "Newbie Meat." Giving yourself an additional disadvantage, such as playing an Orc or a Drow Necromancer is going to add to the frustrations felt at the "Newbie Meat" level of play.

The reason that certain classes (Rangers, Assassins, Warriors) are reccommended for new players is because the new player's weaknesses will be diluted by the class skills, rather than amplified by them.

I swear to you that if you roll up a Battle Ranger you'll find it a whole different game. A whole different game. Getting that first mage kill might be tough, but after that I think you'll be pretty surprised.

Accepting that people will be gunning for orcs is fine, but do it with some damn class and don't just jump people you've never interacted with for lolz and gear. There are -plenty- of NPC orcs and goblins out there to vent orc-rage on. I think it's perfectly fair to put the onus on presumably mature existing players to adjust the way they engage in PK in an RP game. If a guy and another guy want to establish a you-jump-me, I-jump-you relationship, that's one thing - but to put the screws to new players and total strangers with ZERO roleplay speaks to a undisciplined playerbase.

My first character is an Orc = certain frustration.

Playing a human assassin the first time out will be challenging enough. Stacking the cards against yourself ahead of time is, in my opinion, not a great idea.

I suspect that the lack of RP you're seeing is because Orcs have a history of being played for lulz. If you think you've gotten lumped in with the Retarded-Orc lot you can always have a bard pen a scroll to everyone in which you make it clear that you are a new breed of Orc and you demand to be taken seriously. Resultingly you'll probably get PKed twice as often, but you'll (hopefully) be more likely to get a reason from your attacker.

Also, keep in mind that there are some really wacky people who play this game and seem to have no concept that there are other people on the other side of the screen. Don't let a few bad (socially insensitive) apples ruin the game for you.

>Accepting that people will be gunning for orcs is fine, but
>do it with some damn class and don't just jump people you've
>never interacted with for lolz and gear.

This is a PK mud very often the first interactions you will have with enemy characters is going to be a fight. To me this has always made sense. Enemies often fight; they don't often sit down for a nice chat. For friendly RP find some IC friends.

A couple things to keep in mind about CF

1) This is PK mud; generally speaking the people playing want to PK each other.

2) Along with number 1, it is often very valid RP for a character to engage in PK.

For example if you are playing a Maran type good character ALL evil characters will be free game in terms of killing. This isn't bad RP, the goal of a Maran is to eradicate evil, and killing is just a method. Similarly if you are playing a Battle Rager all mages, nexus, scions, and Imperials are going to be open for killing.

It is hard to make a character in CF that doesn't have a substantial list of "natural" enemies, the game is designed this way. Further, much of the RP within CF has a basis around these conflicts.


>There are -plenty- of
>NPC orcs and goblins out there to vent orc-rage on. I think
>it's perfectly fair to put the onus on presumably mature
>existing players to adjust the way they engage in PK in an RP
>game.

If you are repeatedly killed by the same character during the same login then in my opinion that person is being a pretty poor sport. Unfortunately, I've never played any online game that didn't have its share of poor sports.

With that said this is a competitive game. Most of the people playing enjoy the excitement of PK win or lose; killing NPC's isn't a substitute for that.

>If a guy and another guy want to establish a
>you-jump-me, I-jump-you relationship, that's one thing - but
>to put the screws to new players and total strangers with ZERO
>roleplay speaks to a undisciplined playerbase.

I think what you might be missing is that all of a characters actions constitute their RP PKing included. There is no reason to think that PKing your orc was bad RP for the other player(s).

You can play whatever you want. Just some things will be tougher than others. CF is a pretty balanced game, but no game is 100% balanced. Orc is on a really bad part of that scale in most cases.

Also, keep in mind, your character will die. Age, con loss, or deletion. So one character doesn't turn out how you thought? Don't worry, you will be starting over. Only next time, with more info and knowledge under your belt.

My disappointment stems more from the inability of players to exercise RP and common sense discipline as regards PK, rather than "how a character has turned out." When it becomes more important to get gear and "win" than build meaningful conflict and RP, it's time to move on. I appreciate the advice and I acknowledge that this is the sort of whiny thread that I hate reading, too. I just had high hopes going in, and the PK environment turns out to be as immature as any other game. Hence the venting.

Whilst there are excellent RPers on this mud, the meat of the game
is PK. Therefore, and since you are a beginner, you should focus on
survivability while you learn the mechanics of PK. Others have offered
good advice on this (stealth class like ranger, assassin) which you should follow.
If you really, really want to play the game for RP, you can try the herald cabal but you'll be disappointed.

CF is not Achaea. The combat mechanics are in a sense more primitive
but infinitely more addictive and fun. Achaea is built around taking your money.
CF is built around adrenaline and cabal dynamics via PK.
I play evil most of the time because i enjoy being the predator and
the freedom that this gives me when it comes to picking fights.
If i kill you and you ask me for a reason, maybe i give you one,
maybe i'm fighting someone else or focusing on escaping a difficult situation
or am simply not interested in explaining my motives to you
and say nothing at all.
It shouldn't make a difference to you, get your things and keep on trucking.

When you become better, have had a couple of chars under your belt,
been in a few cabals you will see that CF becomes a completely
different game from the one that defines your current impression. And
you will also find meaningful RP and behind-the-scenes politics and
character interactions. But in a sense, all of these grow out of PK.

The better you become, the more you can affect the world of CF.
People _will_ take notice and act accordingly. So, to end with, my
advice to you is to take things a step at a time. You will die a lot
and there is frustration galore to be discovered, but you will also
grow as a player and begin to appreciate things that now seem non
existent.

I do not see why it is so difficult to exercise some restraint, organize with others who play CF for the PK and fight amongst yourselves, or at least avoid the kind of immature PK stranger-jumping for gear and lols that must drive away countless potential players. Novices obviously don't present much of a challenge, so what is there to gain from wordlessly griefing them on sight?

If PK isn't for challenge, and just for lols, why get worked up over character names like Applesauce or Howibeatshaq? Why even pretend that CF is some kind of grand RP experience when you can't explore or RP in public without getting jumped towards permadeath for your trouble?

When i started playing CF, i played evil. People understood quickly that i had no clue whatsoever about the game. They didn't take it easy on me. I got betrayed by groupmates, repeatedly killed for no reason at all (by your logic), certainly not for gear as mine was crap, lead to traps, betrayed and killed again and again. My first char con-died before i hit 30
and i didn't win a single fight. You can learn and advance or you can quit playing. There is fun to be had in this game but you have to work a bit till you get there.

By your account, it sounds like the RP, maturity, and restraint around here is worse than advertised. I guess if you're looking for a free-to-play text game for PK lols, you could do worse. That being said, I'd change the RP tag from "mandatory" to "accepted". When you create a new character, presumably you're supposed to roleplay not knowing about the traps, tricks, and techniques you learned on your old character - or are there just a bunch of precocious alts beginning at level one with centuries of appreciation for Theran geography, politics, and combat?

First of all, realism notwithstanding this is a game and some things have to be done to make it playable. It would be absurd (and pretty much impossible to do/enforce) for every new char to have to re-discover everything from scratch. How do you do that with combat tactics, geography etc

You keep mentioning PK 'lols' as if it's contrary to RP but all the examples i mentioned constitute perfectly valid EVIL roleplay. Evil kills, it could have a reason or not. I got betrayed and murdered because i chose to play a necro and group with evils. You got destroyed as an Orc because you _are_ evil, the whole mud is pretty much going to hunt you down, evils included because you are easy prey. I don't see this as bad RP, it's a dog eat dog world you either learn to swim or sink like a stone.

It is not hard to learn how not to die frequently. The first thing you do is bind _where_ to a key so that you don't have to type it in. Using it becomes second nature and you always have some idea of who is around especially if you can see hidden. The second thing you do is learn the geography. Pretty much all the vets can navigate the mud blind and know exactly where they are at. This is a tremendous advantage compared to someone new. So, you work on this with a couple of explore chars. Then, at some point, you try and fight a lot in order to learn tactics. You can do that either by playing lots of different classes (ideally all of them) or by fighting them. You need to know exactly what someone in a fight can do to you and what you can do to them. You will die a lot to skills you haven't seen before (and therefore don't know how to counter or plan for) that your opponent will spring on you suddenly when you least expect, sometimes when you think you have the upper hand. All of these are things that you will learn with time but you must make an effort.

I, too, find it restraining and odd RP-wise that public places like major cities are the most dangerous places in the mud. The easiness of finding you far outweighs any protection you may get from guildguards or trib players there. It is also more noticeable with low playerbase because tribs are often not around.

Of course, I have a perfect solution. I'll play a trib myself and make the cities safe. Muhahaha!

Orcs are enemies to damn near anyone. Who could have possibly killed you that didn't have an RP reason? Why would said character need to tell you to be "well RPed"?

If this was some willy nilly PK fest, I wouldn't play. Why? Because I'm pretty damn terrible at PK. But, guess what? I don't play a SUPER PK intensive race/class like orc. I learn to survive rather than kill. Now I can RP to my hearts content because no one can kill me if I don't want them to, AND I'm not an orc that is enemy to EVERYONE.

Unless you are looking to marginalize what could be a creative and fun element of Carrion Fields, I see no reason to encourage or abide policies that treat Orc characters as open season for lolpk. I guess it was my fault, and I say that without snark, for getting excited reading the help files about Orcs and the Orc God and clan chiefs and everything else. I was being a little naive.

I thought you'd have a vibrant community of orcs engaged not only in waaagh against traditional enemies, but displaying some of the cunning described in the files. Alliances with the Empire, for instance, with more communication between the two groups. A clan chief position that was routinely held by an active and engaged RPer. Some kind of player-run structure for orc characters to progress within.

Apparently the Orcs in CF are a repository of throwaway characters created to alternatively serve as lolpkers themselves or clay pigeons for the PK whims of others. It's just a damn shame.

Orcs have a lot of enemies. Therefore what you perceived as lolpks could have been well deserved slaughter of orcs. You want grinning skull to have alliances and be more like what you want? That requires becoming chief and/or the biggest baddest orc around. It's a tough road.

I feel like you got walloped a lot and this is what the complaint is really about. Again I say you either realize it is tough as an orc and in CF in general, or you move on. I'm not going to bother posting again as I feel like I'm now conversing with a hard headed child that wants one of the most difficult paths to be easy. Sorry.

Understandable that they have enemies, less understandable that every Orc PC is treated like a carefree target for wordless jumping, not for challenge, not for RP (none attempted, there are plenty NPC orcs), not for gear (orc PC gear sucks), but because hey, "RP is too much effort and I sure does like PKing newbs." CF presents itself as a great RP experience but the cities are empty husks, full of litter, with PCs racing through them afraid of being jumped, themselves. PCs hide from one another, playing it safe, because apparently this sort of jump-first-RP-later mentality doesn't stop at Orcs. Neither did I concoct my own hardheaded and childish thoughts on what Orc RP would be like - I just read the files, so sue me. Look, I appreciate your attempts to explain why it is the way it is and I'm not trying to be willfully contrary. My irritation just stems from a sense that you've got the makings of a great RP game with the telltale signs of an undisciplined PK community that likes "preying on the weak" more than a game with living cities.

Normally, you RP with people you don't know to be friendly with tells. Not everyone is going to PK you, but if you just walk up to someone without saying a word, they might see it as an incoming attack and strike you or quaff a potion. Often, if they are friendly, they will let you know they are there to let you know that they don't have ill intentions. If someone PK's you, do following:

1. Get your stuff from your corpse.
2. RP with them via tells afterwards.

If you want to walk up to people and RP with them face to face, the Inn of Eternal Star is the best place for this. Lowbies won't generally attack people there.

In CF, playerkilling and roleplaying are deeply intertwined together. Everything a character does is supposed to be part of his roleplay. However, you should understand that people attacking you without warning is perfectly viable roleplay, not just lolPK, if their characters have a reason to do so and it is not against their role. It is the healthiest attitude to take and you're having much more fun if you consider their acts as part of their roleplay instead of regarding someone jumping you as lolPK. You don't know their role and they don't know yours. Talk with them via tells if you want to know why.

For an orc, it is perfectly valid RP to froth in the mouth and bash down an innocent bystander without warning. And run for the hills when your attack goes badly.

Since I recently played Thrunna (you can look her up if you want).

Orcs aren't open season for "lolpk". What they are is an extremely dangerous class with low pk survivability and high deathfulness. What I mean by that is, in experienced hands, an orc will totally slaughter a wide variety of classes for a significant number of levels (up to about 40). On the other hand, they can also get destroyed equally fast by a similar number of classes.

Orcs are evil, chaotic, stupid and generally bloodthirsty, so stopping to try and chat with one might result in your getting bashed to death and having your getting of "Hiya orcie" go through right about the time you appear at your pit as a ghost. One way to get around this is to strike first, the other is running away.

One issue with the orc community is that there are very rarely enough orcs to provide you with support. Other race/class/cabals will provide this support structure.

Orcs do form alliances, but you have to have something to offer the other side. For instance, Thrunna made personal/clan alliances with Nexus, Empire, and Scion (or some individuals in Scion). She also mostly tried to stay on the right side of Tribunal. This went a long long way to limit the number of people actively hunting her. As a brand new orc, you aren't going to have any of these advantages (unless you have a chief working for your benefit) and people aren't going to ally with someone who brings nothing to the table. Basically, if you are getting killed left and right, there is no reason for anyone to stop killing you since you aren't strong enough to make it dangerous for them. That is a reality of orc life.

The Chief position is usually (in my experience) held by an active an engaged RPer, but most orcs (even those played by experienced characters) don't last to level 35, so Chief's aren't going to invest a ton of time in helping a character that is more than likely going to be gone in a week.

As for Orcs being a repository of throwaway characters, I'd have to agree to an extent, but only because the kind of chaotic stupid characters that end up being orcs are less noticable in other race/class builds, and they don't make it into a cabal very often, where as with orcs, you get subjected to their clan channel stupidity right from level 1.

Where you seem to be making a bad assumption is that in CF, people are killing orcs because they hate orcs, and any orc is the same as any other. This isn't true. Yes, a maran could go an slaughter NPC orcs, but these are the peons and peasants of the population. Adventurers (i.e. PCs) are the movers and shakers. These are the people where killing can make a real difference for your cause. If that cause involves the eradication of orcs.... guess what, they are coming for you.