Because everything was taken completely out of context.

The first time we got uninducted (myself and a Nexus invoker), we were leveling on Kiadana. When we started, everything was balanced, no one had any cabal items, everything was good. We were grouped for perhaps 30 minutes, having good success on Kiadana. Yes, we absolutely got lost in the thrill of killing 6-8 storm giants at once (such is the luxury of a bard and invoker together). No, during this time, we both forgot to check the balance. This being my first Nexun, I didn't even think to check it that often, until this occurance happened. To compound things, Ewonelyia, a raging vengeance seeking elf shapeshifter, suicided against also. So at some point, darkness tipped and we killed a goodie shapeshifter who had attacked us. Things happen, we can learn from mistakes.

"Burning Desire" comes over CB, says something about being disappointed, bam, we're both uninducted. The invoker and I both understand our mistake of not checking the balance often enough, and we roleplay our way back in. We are charged with taking the battle head. We take it. Get reinducted.

That first uninduction probably should have never happened. It was my first mistake on my first Nexun. But you see how it looks now? It looks like I was completely ####ing up and was booted as a result...when that just isn't really the case.



The second time, I didn't really think about consequences of looting evil shaman guy. If I had seen Daevryn's comment on the CB the first time, I probably would've been like yeah, that probably wasn't right, and returned or compensated the evil shaman guy, and continued on. But then he assumes I'm ignoring him or something, and starts taking away cabal powers. Fed up with this stuff, I pray about it (yes, I told him to go #### himself). I was done with the cabal and I was going to move on in another direction, since I obviously don't understand Nexus. And some people obviously don't have a clue that I was occupied with other stuff at the time.

Honestly, I probably would've seen the cabal chatter a lot more clearly if he had come over the CB as burning desire instead of an immortal. In the middle of a fight, an immortal just looks like the newbie channel to me anyway. Whatever. Like I said, Daevryn apparently doesn't understand human error when dealing with a text based game.

Displeased with me cursing at him, he takes away all bard songs.

Thanks for wasting my character's time. That is a great way to treat your players.

You were a bit of a #### too. Don't think that doesn't have anything to do with it. How can you expect people to have any sympathy whatsoever when you act like giant douchebag. One thing you must not have understood about nexus is that personality is going to take you far especially if your a bard, and especially since you are all neutral neutral which means very few inherent biases. Aside from being a competant player killer I doubt you will be missed. Logging in and off and only once is a while to see if you feel like playing doesn't help either. You were bound to get scrubbed either way. Try an Imperial.

It was frustrating, I agree, that we had such AMAZING learning, and had to abandon it. We both goofed, but we fixed it and got back in.

For the rest of Valerus' life, you can bet I checked the balance religiously. I'd recommend any nexun do the same, especially if they're traveling with a non nexun.

It is not an "easy cabal" to find things to do. I'd argue almost any other cabal is less complicated in expectations of what you'll be doing. That, for me, is why I enjoy it and keep playing it.

>That first uninduction probably should have never happened.

You omit Daevryn's claim that you made another pass on Kiadana after he gave you the warning. Is he full of it, or did that happen? If that happened, do you still maintain the (temporary) uninduct was uncalled for? (Seems reasonable to me.)

>But then he assumes I'm
>ignoring him or something, and starts taking away cabal
>powers.

He said something you didn't respond. When he subsequently took away a cabal power you still didn't respond. What's he to think? Also consider that your character had a "history" of bad nexus behavior, given the first incident on Kiadana. Had that not happened, he probably doesn't yank vanguard in the second situation.

>since I obviously don't understand Nexus.

It sounds like you understand it, you just weren't conscientious about following "the rules".

>Displeased with me cursing at him, he takes away all bard
>songs.
>Thanks for wasting my character's time. That is a great way to
>treat your players.

What, in your opinion, should he have done when you started sending up profanity-laced OOC prayers?

But I will say that recently it seems like the balance can shift REALLY fast.

That is to say, I remember a specific instance where Nexus was one minute fighting the light and killing Maran and then less than 10 min later I'm told they are taking the scepter and killing scions. Then they show back up at fort with Empire not 10 minutes after the scepter bit and try and take the orb, then a short while later are again trying to take the scepter and scions. This is probably all in a 30 min span.

Maybe I'm missing something in what happened there, but that is what I caught of it.

No, this probably has nothing do with this particular instance, but it might be something to eyeball.

I heard about this or a similar incident secondhand; unfortunately I wasn't on for it.

My gut feeling having spent a lot of time watching how the balance shifts (and doesn't) is that was Nexus being ####ty, but I can't be positive. I've recently put in better logging around this.

nt

(And I'm not saying anything that isn't in books in the Nexus cabal area -- maybe we need to stress those as part of induction again.)

Take the Order/Chaos balance. As far as Gauge is concerned, you've got five possible states, which I'll arbitrarily assign numbers to for the purpose of discussing them below:

(2) Order is dominating.
(1) Order is winning.
(0) Order and Chaos are balanced.
(-1) Chaos is winning.
(-2) Chaos is dominating.

Nexus is only supposed to even consider taking cabal items (excepting Battle's) in the two most extreme cases (2) and (-2) -- and it's very, very unlikely for the balance to swing the entire way from one to the other quickly.

What if, lets say chaos is winning, Nexuns raid, kill some outlander (thats their goal!) then either drop the fetish or relinquish it?

Whatcha say?

You'll get a slightly different answer from Daevryn IC, but wearing my objective Nexus administrator hat, my feeling is that killing the inner of a non-Battle cabal to try to balance things is, if not the option of last resort, near the option of last resort.

I hesitate to say "never do it", but it's something you don't generally do if you can, for example, PK people of the in-power side instead.

But you see, if Light sways its much easier to knock in the Fortress door, and kill some forties there, rather then to seek them in huge world

From an RP perspective, I can understand one route being more drastic than other.

Based on your point scale of 2 through -2, I assume killing a non-Battle inner and killing a sufficiently powerful enemy of the same cabal have different "point values" so to speak?

As long as one believes that taking the cabal item will put things as close to zero as possible, is there a more mechanical reason they should opt for say, killing two enemies versus just raiding, or is it simply an RP thing?

>As long as one believes that taking the cabal item will put
>things as close to zero as possible, is there a more
>mechanical reason they should opt for say, killing two enemies
>versus just raiding, or is it simply an RP thing?

Generally, because it tends to not work out that way and promote a bigger swing than you want. Good's winning a little, so you raid Fortress for the Orb. In the process you kill a bunch of Fort; now evil's winning. Rinse, repeat.

This in a sense is good for the players of Nexus because their utter failure to achieve balance gives them something to do, but it's contrary to the goals of the cabal.

Thats never happened from my experience.

>Generally, because it tends to not work out that way and
>promote a bigger swing than you want. Good's winning a
>little, so you raid Fortress for the Orb. In the process you
>kill a bunch of Fort; now evil's winning. Rinse, repeat.

If you find that evil is winning because you have the orb, you just give it back.

Sure, assuming evil isn't already winning even before you down the orb. I've seen that a couple times recently.

I think people are asking 'Why does killing the Inner change the state of the Balance when it should be downing the cabal item that actually changes the point values so that giving the cabal item back actually will create Balance?'

I think this whole thread proves Nexus' inherent flaw, no matter how quickly or slowly the Balance changes, someone, including the cabal Leaders, will overreact to a balance swing just to have something to do. Cyrn and his perma assassin butt buddy were a prime example of this but it's something one can observe from other Nexus leaders as well whether they are in the cabal or not.

so how about raiding to get targets.

why should this be a last resort (other then the fact holding cabal items seems to do nothing noticeable to the balance) I don't understand why certain steps to correct the balance should be used instead of other ones.

If light is a little strong, say, and they have the scepter but there are no Scions to help retrive, you can raid, then just let the Orb crumble.

>Nexus is only supposed to even consider taking cabal
>items (excepting Battle's) in the two most extreme cases (2)
>and (-2) -- and it's very, very unlikely for the balance to
>swing the entire way from one to the other quickly.


I was Barandilora and, as Meter, I was very proactive about taking cabal items. If the balance shifted, I would go raid, and as long as it stayed neutral I would keep the item. The other leader seemed to go along with this.

Now I to get in touch with all of the cabal immortals for a while, and eventually managed to get Rayihn, and later, Daevryn. Now maybe somehow this policy question slipped my mind and I forgot to ask it or something, but getting leadership advice was a big part of my trying to contact you guys. Anyhow, I'm surprised by what you've said here about when Nexus can raid.

As for this issue I think that Magus was out of line, but I'd just point out that personally I would see losing a cabal power as more permanent than an uninduction. That's how it would come across to me, so generally I'd rather be uninducted (for most cabals) than lose powers, but maybe I'm crazy. Also, I would think that it might be better to always transfer someone to you anytime you think they are ignoring you. Then you can just ask, ooc maybe, whether you're being ignored IC, or they missed what you said. That way you know for sure how to respond. Otherwise technical limitations always invite doubt.

Yeah, I guess we need to point out the books in the cabal again.

The last couple times I've played Nexus the leaders made me read them so I assumed that was still the case.

>Yeah, I guess we need to point out the books in the cabal
>again.

I did read the books. Now that you mention it, one of the questions I was trying to get answered was on the interpretation.

It said soemthing like "When chaos is at -1, we should attack order" and it says "When chaos is at -2 we should take the tribunal's item" But it doesn't say "When chaos is at -1 we should NOT take the tribunal's item" That's my recollection of what was unclear to me, anyhow. It seemed to say what to do in certain situations but not what to avoid. You could assume that if it doesn't say to do it, you don't, but it didn't seem definite.

My interpretation was "My goal is to make everything be balanced, so whatever it takes to do that is right" So if there's a bunch of Imperials around, and a bunch of outlanders, I would many time take the scepter because it would keep everything in balance.

If you look at PK and nexun stats they actually are worse then the fort. In fact they are the worst by a wide margin of all cabals that actually participate in pk.

I would be glad to explain why but it is pretty simple, thera is mostly balanced most of the time and to get good with a character build in PK and cabal wars you actually have to have experience using it in PK and cabal wars. Due to the balance being mostly balanced all the time nexuns have significantly smaller amounts of experience in these things and therefore take it up the rear.

Nexuns being more proactive in cabal wars even if it is just a teeny weeny tip would make the game overall more interesting.

Why can't nexus guys just get an echo every time the balance shifts, sort of like the "veil thickens" "veil thins" echos you get when you have detect magic up?

Too spammy?

Or is it important to you from a cabal design POV that the check be "manual"?

...first of all, when call 'gauge balance' was broken for a while, it was a pain in the ass to be completely sure of the balance at all times.

Second of all, I feel a lot of potential Nexus players have no idea how the Veil shifts (IE if there are 4 MARAN on, no SCION, no EMPIRE, good is probably dominating until Ahtieli logs on, then it's balanced even though in a quantitative state, there is still only one evil guy on) or how to work it.

To elaborate further, I only got #### on once by the Nexus IMMs (Rayihn) and it was a very dicey situation. The setting is thus: Chaos was DOMINATING more than I have ever seen it, so Biklaha and I decide to go tackle some Outlanders. At the time, Good and Evil were relatively balanced, so if you had a chaotic aura, you were getting smashed. Bik and I kill Lilorni in the Weald (can't remember if he was a goodie or not), I run to the North road, see Frorania and procede to lionize her (she was a chaotic Baer-tat'd Maran). The moment I kill her, Rayihn starts reeming us on Cabal Channel. I do a quick gauge balance, and wouldn't you know, it read Evil is swaying and chaos is swaying (no longer dominating). So me and Bik are like 'Oops! Well, we made a judgement call to realign the chaos/order and maybe we made the good/evil sway more than we want'.

In the end, neither of us got uninducted or nerfed in any way, and honestly, other than the tone I had nothing wrong with what Rayihn said (when I say I was bothered by the tone, it's because I "assumed" she was being pissy because I just smoked her follower (Frorania) when I probably shouldn't have...of course, that's being OOC but I believe what I believe and I can't say if I was right or not).

I don't think most of the staff, in general, are very defensive or protective of their followers; however, if you screw up in a way that involves one of my kids, I'm much more likely to notice it because I'm keeping an eye on them to see if they screw up.

NT

>"Burning Desire" comes over CB, says something about being
>disappointed, bam, we're both uninducted. The invoker and I
>both understand our mistake of not checking the balance often
>enough, and we roleplay our way back in. We are charged with
>taking the battle head. We take it. Get reinducted.

>That first uninduction probably should have never happened. It
>was my first mistake on my first Nexun. But you see how it
>looks now? It looks like I was completely ####ing up and was
>booted as a result...when that just isn't really the case.

You're leaving out the part where I called attention to what you were doing wrong and, instead of correcting it, told your group "Let's make one more run through and then we need to stop."

If you think that would fly in any cabal (e.g., you're Battle and your cabal imm points out that you're grouped with a Scion and you say, well, then just one more run) then I'm not sure what else there is to discuss.

You didn't get booted for your first mistake, you got booted for choosing to continue that mistake when called on it.

>And some people obviously don't have a clue
>that I was occupied with other stuff at the time.

See my original post. I waited for you to be clear of combat, gave you a little more time, and then did something.

Again, play any other cabal. Be the Tribunal that PKs random people in Galadon, gets called on it, and then decides to kill just a couple more, then somehow makes it back into the cabal and does it again. That character's going to be severely maimed.

Based on what I saw and your past actions, you didn't get the benefit of the doubt, except in that you initially lost one cabal power instead of being uninducted. Probably that wasn't even permanent if you'd straightened up and been a decent member of your cabal, something that should have been obvious to you of all people based on the first incident.

>Displeased with me cursing at him, he takes away all bard
>songs.

Yup. You don't get to have a Krilcov-with-less-capital-letters-and-better-spelling style meltdown at me. The mistake I made was not denying you when it started; it's what I have usually done.

>Thanks for wasting my character's time. That is a great way to
>treat your players.

I didn't waste your time; I'm just the device you used to do it. This isn't something that was done to you; this is something you did to yourself. Man up and take some responsibility for your choices.

I think Daevryn handled it with gloves on and made some good choices here. Had it been Borkahd for the IC stuff he would have just started to cranial people and burn huts. But anyone that was in Battle with him when he was Commander knows how he was.

As far as the OOC stuff goes, you crossed a line. If something happens IC, keep it IC. Once you take it OOC you have to man up for it as the player. I consider you lucky since you didn't get denied right away.

*Just wanted to chim in and show my support for Daev here. Anytime something like this gets blown way out and goes public it is important to let the facts be known, which is what he has done. Kudos.

-----------------
"My view of Borkahd IC"
If you anger him, he'll rape you to death, eat your flesh, and sew your skin into his clothing. And if you're very, very lucky, he'll do it in that order. ~Twist

Dude. You totally should have been confirmed for the SCOTUS.