Fri Sep 11 18:02:19 2009

At 2 o'clock PM, Day of the Bull, 22nd of the Month of the Sun
on the Theran calendar Haeron perished, never to return.

Our encounters were toofew to get a real idea but i found your alligator to lack any real bite. Shame you have given up so easy as I was looking forward tofights shen your forms were 'confident'.

I hate mages. A lot.

I did find my shield and black wands. The whole process really wasn't that bad, but it does seem to rely on a lot of luck and area knowledge. I think the people whining about it are largely people who search their old wand lists, come up empty, and don't bother searching other logical places. Or people so new at the game, that they don't know where the logical places would be.

Gator/falcon. Both awesome forms. But when almost everyone either flees/quaffs or dies in 2 rounds, things are pretty boring. I think I like the more nuanced PK classes better. The brute force approach just isn't for me.

Arrna- Your "Orders" are pretty retarded. From a logical IC point, they really don't make any sense for most characters. And from a practical OOC sense, you're just preventing players from playing the characters they wanted. For ####s sake, Tribunal leadership is almost entirely evil. You shouldn't have a pact that they can't get wanted. I was going to try to challenge you on them IC, but I just couldn't get into the character.

There is no almost in it. But it's the seductive evil! Sorry about that misplaced flag (which I quickly removed)... there are way too many alligators around! Honestly, Gator/Falcon seems pretty amazing, but then what do I know!

Roll a goodie and replace the evil Tribunal leadership please. In all seriousness! Let's see a paladin provincial --> provost.

At first i kinda thought the the no attack evil in the cities rules was kinda strange for the zealous fort members. Many times i observed fort members (titled/tattooed ones at that) simply watching with their thumbs up their butts as evil characters were fighting/killing others in cities.

Yesterday at Empire o clock, it kinda hit me. You know the only place for the few fort members still logged on to be safe from the whole imperial council+lich gank were in the cities. It might be hard for many of their roles to ignore not attacking evil unless there was a 'rule' of some sort that said they shouldn't.

I don't know, it just seems this way to me, from an IC point of view it is kinda bleh, but from OOC i can see it serving some purpose.

Maybe.



As for wands, area knowledge and luck? I would agree, alot of luck sometimes. Don't bother searching other logical places? Maybe, i currently know about 60 locations new and old, never found mine, the search got tideous, so i gave up and used limited sources. All that said, I don't play mages anymore.

... And I thought I explained them all (Not sure, I know I missed it on one of my recent inducts.)

The orders regarding the spire has changed I believe four times since I became Marshall. They only change from IC reasons/discussions. And each time, they are discuss with the majority of the leaders.

And yes, they won't fit the roles of many chars. But so what? Run with it IC! If you're a goodie that wishes to hunt in the cities, then the fortress ain't for you with it's current leadership. (Yeah, that really sucks, but it's the way it is right now.)

Arrna has a role, and that role is followed. I was made leader, and I won't just flip my role upside down to make it easier for other chars.

Frorania for example, made a HUGE impact on Arrna and her view of the spire. And after a long discussion with her and the leaders, the orders where changed.

I hate to discuss this #### on the forums, but I'm quite tired of people constantly giving me #### for following my role and doing stuff IC.

Anyways, screw you for deleting 1-2 days after induction. With 30+ applicants bugging you, you get kinda annoyed from that.

Though I understand if you get bored, I get bored of shifters too. heh

Leaders should obviously follow their role. But in most situations, they shouldn't force their roles on other people within the cabal. You can suggest, and try to convince people not to break the laws (I've done precisely that). But I think it's a mistake to make any long-standing orders that aren't spelled out or at least eluded to in the cabal charter. Particularly when your orders can easily be construed as going AGAINST the charter.

As soon as you said you had a list of orders, I rolled my eyes. And yes, you did give some sketchy reasons for that law. But I decided I'd rather get inducted than argue the point at that time.

I'll leave it at that, if you want to discuss it more, we'll do that when Arrna is no more.

Since you're Java I know that I'm only going to say something you already know... You can disobey Arrna's orders and play your role. Noone can force you to do something you don't want to... just be willing to live with the consequences.

Sorry you didn't enjoy the char - maybe next one will be better.

Playing a goodie is different than playing an evil.

Outside consequences aren't the only downside to being deceptive or outright lying.

A fortie who flat out lies to leadership probably won't be (or at least shouldn't be) a fortie for very long.

Basically, my options were to decline joining Fort, or accept all of Arrna's rules. Can't have it both ways, and still effectively play a solid Maran character.

>>Leaders should obviously follow their role. But in most situations, >>they shouldn't force their roles on other people within the cabal.

Go tell it to Baer? She is not only leader(character) but she is also immortal(=admin of game) who sure should not force her role on non-her followers. But as far as I know(I might be wrong but hardly) SHE DOES FORCE her role on other people.

Though sometimes she does not mind that her followers, paladins use evil preps(like wraithform).. let's talk about purity?

Attacking in town: You've been playing as Baer follower paladin for a bit and she does not allow her followers to fight in town, right? So I bet you can live with shifter who does not allowed to attack in towns.

Whole cabal in cf lives by same restrictions, so I bet Fort can try to follow it too for some period of time.

Baer followers can attack in town, as they please. Baer PALADINS cannot. That's a very distinct difference, that it seems like everyone ignores.

The reason for that is not because Baer the character likes laws, it's because Baer the character interprets the Paladin Code in a very specific way, and she expects her Paladins to interpret and follow the code very specifically, without exception.

And yes I (the player, some guy named Robert that lives in Virginia) can deal with not attacking in town. But should that mean that every character I play live through the same restrictions? I don't think it should. But I've already said my piece on Arrna's rules, so I'll leave it at that.

As far as her followers using evil preps.. does that specific prep actually have an evil flag anywhere? I honestly don't know for sure. But a tatt'ed follower of Baer probably shouldn't use an evil-flagged prep (or any other evil-flagged item). But the spell wraithform itself isn't necessarily evil.

I don't know of any instances when Baer forced her role on non-followers. Granted, her role at times comes in conflict with other PC's roles. But that's to be expected, and she is far from unique in that aspect. So if you're going to make that sort of accusation, I would suggest you do so with specific examples.

>But I've already said my piece on Arrna's rules, so I'll leave
>it at that.

If you can't set rules for your cabal, what does it really mean to have a position of "authority"? Are you just a "hey let's go raid!" cheer leader? Or "that guy stuck doing inductions"?

In the case of Fortress, if a leader thinks X is categorically wrong (possibly because of their nutty role) and decides to impose that on the entire cabal...I'm pretty much fine with that.

If it's nutty enough then one of the cabal imms will say to leader guy, "Hey, you're nutty to the extent we think you shouldn't be leader anymore."

Most cabals already have a set of requirements/guidelines/whathaveyou.

Leadership should be enforcing those, rather than creating new ones, in addition to the inductions, setting policies/wars/truces with other cabals, motivating members, leading battles, etc etc etc.

Basically, the leader should be responsible for everything the cabal member does. But I don't think that includes creating their own arbitrary rules for how they should behave. Maran existed before Arrna, Maran will exist after Arrna. From an IC perspective, he should know that. By making his rules, he's basically saying that he better knows what the Fort needs than the Immortals and all leaders before him.

And that's all from an IC perspective. From an OOC perspective, it's just ####ing annoying, with no real upshot besides Arrna's player flexing his leadership muscle.

I did it, and I thought I had good reason to. It wasn't just making rules for the sake of making rules.

As an aside, if you were trucking along killing evil and then asked Fort leadership to remove you from the cabal because it was HINDERING your evil-destroying activities, then you continued to beat ass while still walking the straight-and-narrow alignment-wise (e.g. no borderline neutral behavior) then I have a suspicion you'd be richly rewarded for sticking to your guns role-wise when it was "difficult" (i.e. giving up fort powers) to do so.

And in some situations, I can understand those rules. But it should be a specific situation that was caused by some series of events in game. Not just a general standing rule that lasts for the duration of his leadership.

But again, I don't want to get too much into it while Arrna is still active and doing his thing. But in general, a rule like that should be temporary and due to some outside factor, not just because the leader disagrees with actual cabal dogma and wants to change it.

This spell allows the caster to step partially into the Ethereal Plane. While
affected, the caster may pass through closed doors and is somewhat protected
from weapons in the Prime Material Plane. When a necromancer becomes more
powerful and reaches the 36th level they learn how to use this spell to pull
themselves into the Ethereal Plane long enough to avoid a bash.
Liches additionally possess the ability to levitate in this form.

Explain to me what's "evil" about stepping into the ethereal plane. Or are you just looking for a reason to rag on good-aligned players?

Because this is the post of a huge newbie who doesn't know #### about the game, and I was pretty sure you weren't.

An alligator with 8 ranks on you is vicious and the one time you caught me on the mount unprepared made me wonder why I don't just play offensive shifters.

Is actually what made me really start hating it.

That fight wasn't fun for you, and it wasn't fun for me. It was just.. bleh, all the way around.

Glad you got your revenge a few times over though.

To Ecekai:

You can't own noob bards with offensive shifters like you can with your current build thats why!

To Java:

I liked this character, i enjoyed spending time ranking with you on the mountain. You saved my life with whatever it was you wearing that eradicated the heck out of those skeletons....I was so lucky you reacted so fast and intelligently. I can understand your feeling about shifters though, they do seem slighty more plain on the strategic side to me but meh, what do i know.

Good luck on your next.