Sun Mar 29 08:07:46 2009

At 5 o'clock PM, Day of the Bull, 1st of the Month of the Old Forces
on the Theran calendar Shirdar perished, never to return.

My experience with an anonymous member of staff today has demonstrated to me how some of you apparently value a strict adherence to what you'd consider to be "proper procedure".

This post is to notify the staff of Carrion Fields that I've taken that lesson to heart. I was one of the driving forces behind the creation of the Carrion Fields article on Wikipedia; an article which initially was deleted from that website due to a lack of notability. I made use of a backdoor to circumvent this problem and re-add the article to Wikpedia, however, in a bid to continue to give the Carrion Fields name wide(r) exposure and thus assist in attracting new players to this MUD. As of a few hours ago, I have notified an administrator of Wikipedia of my improper actions, and I have apologized for the contempt for proper procedure that I've demonstrated on their website. Subsequently, the Carrion Fields article has permanently been deleted. Along with this, a regular player who has been with you for 8 years will be permanently removing himself from this MUD as well.

To the buffoon on staff who has interacted with me today: Consider yourself responsible for both outcomes. Please feel free to delete the Felar Revenant account from this website. After this post, it will no longer be used.

Arthakar/Meronir/Breireth/Ishdor/Shirdar's player, signing off.

gr

I have to think a player who's been here for 8 years knows better that you can't, as a good-aligned character, keep indiscriminately stealing from other good characters and expect to stay good.

I don't know the whole story, but if that's a reason to turn a goodie neutral its a lame reason. I stole from goodies all the time with my entropy thief for fun and profit and boredome. He was an elf who was always after a good time and liked to take the things other people coveted and give them away to other goodies or just keep them himself.

I've been here for more than eight years and I don't see a problem with it.

f

Sure I can see getting turned diet good for stealing Amathylar as a Squire thief.

But getting turned neutral for a situation like stealing 300 gold from Elf Pally Maran and having him bitch to Captain and threaten uninduction AFTER getting it back? That's just hilarity.

Sometimes steal is a good way to bring out other people's greed and see just who will cry and break role when their shinies get missing(some would call that griefing I guess, I call it amusing((except when it happens to me and I break role and cry)). Why am I evil if I steal sword from person X and give it to coollightguy Y only to have person X kill me for doing so. I remember taking one of Lysrieal's (Acolyte Leader) humansunders once through doppel and having a group of 3 Fortress try to bash me down to get it back (I wasn't evil). I ended up sacrificing it in front of them all, and that was awesome.

I'm just saying, steal isn't itself an evil action all the time. Sometimes it can be used as a tool for mischief and not malice.

Come out of that box.

Since you have free punchbags to practice your steal on without any consequences. Alas those "goodies" who can do nothing see a problem and I am glad that imms started to see it as well.

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It's the exact same scenario.

I don't have a problem with the align change IF he was warned that his actions were toeing the line of neutrality. In 60 odd hours, it seems like someone jumped the gun.

One of them probably had a role and the other did not. Multiple offenses without a role...why should we give this guy a lot of chances?

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I bet its the Imm I'm replying to, and I wouldn't be the least bit suprised if it turned out that said felar stole from said immortals mort spurring these events.

It made the very point I was out to make.

I don't think that character is good-aligned. It might be fun for you to play it that way, but in my opinion it's obnoxious and unfair to everyone else playing good if we let you go away with that.

I don't go as far as to say that a good character should never steal from a good character, and I do agree that stealing is less severe than murder, but... I'm still not with you on this one.

gr

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=31&topic_id=17050&mesg_id=17050&page=

Not saying either of you are wrong. Just putting it in context.

We talked a lot about how to handle that character, and with a different mix of active imms Clarisandrie might have ended neutral pretty quickly. It's hard to say.

I can't say there was no RP around Shirdar's thefts (at least a few that I say), but what I saw didn't, to me, justify his good alignment. YMMV.

...isn't the punishment, per say, it's how its' handled. I know for a fact if I got turned evil with a neutral gnome shifter in a cool, ambient RP way, I'd be a lot less inclined to throw a bitch fit than if the IMM sent me a tell 'You're evil now, since you've acted evil. Blah blah bitch blah blah'.

Shrug, one man's opinion.

gr

Even though I really like his player. No reason to ever do OOC: Well, dude, listen.

It's just crappy to ever go OOC unless you are about to delete, or you want to say something to the IMMs. I know I do via pray about once a month when I'm playing. Example : pray Zulgh let me be your bitch? Or just hook me up with Croc/Porc? Etc, etc.

Yeh but I was trying to get turned evil and my entire role was an explaination of my becoming a thief and being overcome with Greed. I really liked playing that thief. Read the role if you have time.

As an aside: I never saw it through because of OOC problems. ->I was going to give hero imming a shot with that char. I like making the game fun for others and was going to try a few things. I even wrote an entire area, Aryth ocean. Just room descriptions, monsters, and items.

I ran into attitude from bitch ass Cyradia, and decided, why the hell would I want to volunteer my time and actually have to communicate with tools OOCly. I am not a programmer, but give me a mob to control and I will make things fun for the mud through roleplay. Hell, I would volunteer hours just to spice things up for newbies and give tours/etc.

anyhow....I was asked for a sample of my writing, and Raiyin told me to write some item descriptions of things you would find in Hamsah Mutazz docks. ( I think she suggested 6 or 7, not sure entirely) I thought she was just making a general suggestion of what to submit. I did a few items, and included some writing samples, and sent the whole package.

About a week later, CYradia pulls me aside and says "I don't seem to be able to follow instructions properly. The assignment was for 6-7 items found in the docks. Not writing examples" I explained I did not think that it was written in stone, but a suggestion of what to submit so they could see how I write. She/He wouldnt hear it, and was pretty ####ty about it. Total bitch. I almost quit playing entirely because of that one incident. But I realized, I was probably dealing with someone with real life emotional problems, and it was probably a good thing to cut the ties right there, instead of wasting my time associating with a loser. I deleted the char a few days later.

Moral of the story: Play the game for yourself, not for the ego-maniac immortals. Low self-esteem gives people power trips. (I still like 95% of the Imms, just 2-3 come to mind that go out of their way to try to bring people down.)

ntnt

I'm your buffoon. I don't know you from Tom's housecat, but if you want to take what happened as a reason to storm off and leave I'm not going to try to stop you.

I'm not going to go into details of *this* situation, either, because you didn't and I think they're your details to disclose. Giving a play-by-play would look an awful lot like flaming a character.

I am, however, going to say a few things here on roleplaying and good/good thieving so that people don't take this "detailless" story somewhere to paranoid land where imms will instantly destroy characters if they sneeze funny. So, a few thoughts...


1. Stealing from another character is a form of attack. As someone pointed out, their options of getting the item back include, asking nicely and killing you.

2. I can damn well guarantee you an alignment change wouldn't occur the first time someone saw this behavior. It would need to be a pattern.

3. I can think of some situations where goods stealing from goods is justified, though even then it would be slightly grey territory. What's important about grey territory is a) we HAVE a role command if you want to explain why this behavior is still lightwalkerish and what's going on in the character's head and b) sometimes grey territory is risky and the consequences aren't what you had in mind. I would say the same for any "rule bending" character.

4. A judging imm would spend a fair amount of time watching your character. Did they give the item back? How many times did they steal? Did they seek the victim out like they would hunt a PK, or did temptation sit down next to them? Explain to the victim what/why was happening? Did they RP regret of any kind? Did they give the items to balator orphans? I'm not saying this would get you out of any consequences, but it would make your character look different then, 'I just pick alignments randomly or for the gear I think I can get and it doesn't really factor into my actions in any way, shape, or form.'

5. If your argument is you shouldn't have to write a role and you're just a good guy that can't help himself from stealing petty and expensive items from other good characters, and show no regret/depth of thought in these serial actions...I'm going to argue you're not a very good guy.

6. If an evil mob talks to you, in character, and you realize about 1/2 way through it, after you've stuck your "goodie" foot in your mouth a few times, where this might be going, sending tells that start, 'OOC: I ...' is not going to win you any favors. There are VERY few places 'OOC' should get typed into a CF prompt, and an in character mob interaction isn't one of them.

7. Some classes, by CF lore, draw a lot of "power" from their alignment. While all characters can expect some penalty (see help betrayer) a thief isn't nearly as much as say, a priest. I'm just saying, before you call foul and get mad and pick up all your marbles, perhaps you should notice what marbles you're missing and how hard they would be to get back.

8. I've had a character of mine turned neutral from good, and my first reaction was, 'WTF, that's not fair?' (I was surprised and there wasn't anything concrete one could point to and say, 'this is why.') My second thought was, 'huh, that's probably fair...now what?' I got a cool quest out of the deal and developed the character further...and then my alignment and actions matched. Your mileage might vary, but I'm just saying it's not always a bad thing.

nt

gr

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What happened? I know thieves can be difficult to level but would love to hear your thoughts on your thief build and what you thought was successful and unsuccessful.

I thought your RP was superb.