Like months ago. I just needed that final push (aka pk-death-probably-full-loot-but-I-wasn't-interested-to-go-check-it-out-anyway-death) I had some great and inspiring interactions, mostly with those of the Fort. A couple impressions during Sil's life:

- Bards just aren't the same since repertoire entered. I can't seem to find my way around with them anymore. That's just me, of course. They're still one of the coolest classes to play, though.

- I've never been more bored in the Fort than with this character. Go play evils. I will.

- Absolutely no one has ever spent so many hours at squire level than me with this character. Really. I'm just wondering why it took ages to get me maran'ed. (and unfortunately, by the time I got maran'ed I'd already lost interest in the character; I had hoped it would have been different, but it wasn't, like I said, the character was dead already months ago) I, and many of my fellow marans and acolytes, thought it should have been a long time before it actually came through.

- I've seen a lot of newbies, which I encourage greatly, but they also come with the same discussions that have been rehashes for years and years now(full loot/not full loot/OP/not OP/Gank/Not Gank/ABS/Not ABS/Maran/Not Maran). Looking critically at something is good, very good, both sides can learn from it; venting can be a big relief at times. But (again) really.

- Somthing about Imm-communication, being also related to point 2. Whether or not I should have maran'd much sooner, I'll leave in the middle. Not mentioning it, nor giving any sign in what, 150-200 hours as to why (not)? Come on.
Another example, being cabal-related, and in a more general way. Some more immteraction would be good for player morale, would raise the RP bar, and could be a factor in player retention. Although the first part of this point is closely Sil related, I really think this should/could be generalized: a short echo, a dream, saying a phrase or two (either through an NPC or not), squelching, the blackjack echo like Pico used to do, whatever, just letting people know they're being snooped/watched/considered/... There are people that stand out (RP-wise) without those things (and they're still easily picked out for rewards etc), but there will be many more with just a bit more of them. I think.

- European playing times suck. That's me, venting. (Still, I'm venting for a reason though; it's not just because of the 10 active people)

- I think the game's moving at a good pace, innovation wise. Innovation's good, you guys do a great job.

- Of late I've seen some 'distance operated quests' (through posts mostly). Are there any numbers available as to how many people participate, etc. I'm just asking this because, personally, it just doesn't do it for me. For example: right before I deleted I read Yean's note: item so and so is stolen, they've been dropped somewhere in Thera, but in places NOT related to the items. (that's just one example, I do like the who-what-where and easter egg type quests more: throw people a bone, reveal some information, it keeps them interested longer. See also immteraction point (keep people on their toes, throw them a bone, if needed one of the Ice Worm). Look at how long people were actively looking after the dragon lairs, just because you put some posts related to them on the boards.

That's it. I'm out. I'll return in an evil reincarnation. It might already be out there. It might not.

Well...I thought Sil was a great fort char, and definitely
maran worthy...even if you did make a dozen mistakes (and
I never personally saw any) the good things you did far
outwayed them. Heck, I flat out tried to avoid being with
you, since you were so good, I knew no one would come at
us without a massive numbers advantage. Adored your rp as well =)
One of those chars that just makes you feel safer knowing they
are logged on. Sad to see you go, though I can understand,
there is nothing more frustrating then a char that feels stagnant.
That said, I understand Baer's point of view, though maybe
a prod in the direction they were after would have helped?
With all the talk about fort promotions, maybe throwing older
squires a bone and nudge, is whats missing...though thats the
fort leaderships job as well (though I know I would have just shrugged
and said I dunno what your doing wrong) and you couldn't pay
me to be an imm.

Do not go evil! Resist the dark side! All that sneering and urm,
prancelike petty posturing is boooring! Wearing black and too
much makeup does not make you cool!

I remember that raid against (insert two imperials) where we were going really slow and cautious. At some point we both agreed not to walk out both at the same time, but we (because of a little mistake of mine ) still ended up leaving both and then you said the magic words 'Sil, you goose!' That was one of the funniest moments I had with the character, really. I also remember us sharing feelings about Ilvakijh. Ah well, I immensly enjoyed you, thank you for that.

-

>- European playing times suck. That's me, venting. (Still, I'm
>venting for a reason though; it's not just because of the 10
>active people)
>
>
>- Of late I've seen some 'distance operated quests' (through
>posts mostly). Are there any numbers available as to how many
>people participate, etc. I'm just asking this because,
>personally, it just doesn't do it for me. For example: right
>before I deleted I read Yean's note: item so and so is stolen,
>they've been dropped somewhere in Thera, but in places NOT
>related to the items. (that's just one example, I do like the
>who-what-where and easter egg type quests more: throw people a
>bone, reveal some information, it keeps them interested
>longer. See also immteraction point (keep people on their
>toes, throw them a bone, if needed one of the Ice Worm). Look
>at how long people were actively looking after the dragon
>lairs, just because you put some posts related to them on the
>boards.
>

Since you put up some concerns about quests here, I'd like to address them from my own experiences. I've only done two global quests ever, the pumpkin find (an easter egg type hunting quest) and a quest for new years eve. The pumpkin find in particular was a royal pain, but a handful of people participated. The new years eve quest was pretty easy on my part, it was more of a let people pick out their own symbolic items. That being said, I had three people total even bother to participate. There were plenty of people on the game at the time, but obviously they simply weren't interested in immteraction. I'll also mention that all most all of the Herald events have/will have either myself or Iunna there to move things along and dish out rewards. Still, the participation here is minimal at times.

The type of quest that I like to do, and I do often is more individually catered rather than globally. I especially like to do this very early mornings my time, and just bounce around from player to player to see what they're doing and try to think of how to interact with them via a mob. I do this quite a bit (especially in the academy), and I almost never have players participate. About 90% of the time the whole interaction is just ignored. Even yesterday I had someone tell me (or the mob that was talking) I'd have to wait. I did wait, for almost an hour thinking they were just new while I worked on some area stuff. That being said, I also had a nice experience with a different sort of quest yesterday.

So summing all of that up, all most all of the time it seems like players simply do not care that some imm is trying to make something enjoyable for them (and it's enjoyable for me too). Maybe most people don't like immteraction? I really don't know. I do know that the more I have people ignore it or scoff at it, the more I don't want to do it anymore. It even seems like most players are just worried about their uber pk character, and silly quests are well just a waste of their time when they could be perfecting defenses or gathering preps. I don't know what to say to someone that says they want the special magic, when the majority of the players ignore it.

I loved that symbol quest on NYE. Had a lot of fun with it, thanks for running it. Lots of us love immteraction, so don't give up!

Really, I find that very strange, because I really get a short adrenaline burst when I'm interacting with an imm controlled NPC, even if but for a second or two. I really enjoy global (like the pumpkin hunt) or local (Fort being invaded or so) quests. I still remember a *long* time ago Galadon being attacked by a mob of trollocs led by a myrddraal, or the Redbeard quest, ending with us fighting a whole band of rabid dogs. (after all these years, I still remember them, that's the kind of impression they leave on me)

It's exactly the kind of interaction you're describing, that I so love (some mob starting to cough/say something/do something out of the blue). It doesn't have to be very long you know, what, 30 seconds, and my 'playing' session surely has gotten a boost.

Immteraction IS the MAIN reason why I play this game. I measure the sucess of my chars mostly on how fun I had interacting with others AND imms. MOSTLY imms that is.

Don't give it up! I still think the BEST CF moment I've ever had was with Ckol (I think it was Ckol, or Berak) when Darsylon as a whole city revolted on me and my group, and we had to fight of wave after wave of guards, civilians etc. We almost died, and when it was over, there wasn't a single elf in Darsylon and we got an echoe of our own steps echoing in the city. It was SO kickass! After that my char never killed a single elf in Darsylon again.


Hell, I'm going to post that logg here when I get some time. Still have it.

I don't want to derail a death thread but let me share with you my sad story.

Its been almost a year since i started playing this game, this is all the immteraction i've gotten:

-Couple words from a certain god before being sent to hell when i tried to participate in their quest. No IMM xp but got 100 explore xp and a 1/3 con loss.

-I stumbled upon the god overseeing my cabal, who in the couple of times i played that cabal i hadn't seen, let alone heard speak. He was talking to someone so he told me to go away. At least he used my name though

-I once spent 30 mins talking to an NPC when it said something, only to find out later it was an automatic response. :<

And thats it. Perhaps continously choosing a certain god under the shpere of knowledge to follow has not helped matters but i cannot help but always feel that imms presence whenever i try to buy things after hours, so thats fine. Honestly though i'm still learning and my characters really don't deserve attention, i'm often happy with imm 1000xp-2000xp for my role...though anything less and i am prone to delete.



So bothering to tell you this sob story/whine? Well...


A couple of days ago i decided to roll a test character to explore certain aspects of the game in preparation for a well written one. Lo and behold its sitting at an certain Inn when a certain goddess who enjoys referring to themselves as captain decides to come down from the heavens and say hi. Honestly that was the most Immteraction i've ever gotten since i started playing the game and even though i still got told to shut up eventually, I had fun. That character wasn't supposed to last past level 10 but that alone was enough to make it live a bit longer. The item you gave it in exchange for the cookie was not only appreciated but very much needed.

In short, please don't be discouraged, for every person that shrug it off there are those that are tremendously grateful for the effort an IMM like you put in. It just sounds that just like i've had crappy luck with any immteraction, you've had crappy luck with the people your giving it to...but hey at the very least this newbie is grateful.

I'm not a big fan of those who don't decide to join a cabal until after they're in hero range. Feels kind fo blah to me. There were also a few things you did when I was watching that turned me off from the character, like raiding for the codex with Llondo and then teleporting off at full health and leaving him to walk through Imperial lands with the Codex and get ganged down by Empire. And yes, you did rack up a fair number of hours during my non-play times. You did grow on me a little eventually, but I'm not sure what immteraction you wanted. You never prayed once. I've always said that I don't tend towards random forcing my interraction on people, you need to make it known that you want some love otherwise I'm going to assume you're one of the players who doesn't want anything to do with the imms and I'll respect that.

I apologize if this character wasn't everything you wanted. Maybe next time write something more than an absolute min role that doesn't have anything to do with religion/imms/or cabal.

I didn't like Sil either, but I don't think I could justify making her sit at Squire for that long over one incident or because of my personal dislike. It just seems like there should be something in place where you either auto Maran/Aco after 100 hours or just get uninducted for being crap.

Though people who think they've been a squire or a scribe too long are certainly able to talk to the Fort imms and ask what they could do better. It may be hrad for people to not do it in a whiny "why am I not a maran yet" way but I think it is possible. At the end of the day, Maran and Acolyte is a reward, not a given. She didn't do anything that deserved uninduction really but she also didn't ring my bell.

I might have made some mistakes, like the one you're mentioning there. It was a *mistake* though, but more like a miscalculation. When you snooped on me at other times, you must have noticed that that particular moment you mention stood out (albeit in a negative way, sure) but surely you must have noticed that there were much more occasions where I *didn't* back out, and that I really tried getting there.

As to my not maran'ing at the speed I wanted to, I didn't want to be the woman who yelled out her dissatisfaction with it all, but the patient Squire who bears her burden in quiet, hoping that she would get noticed for what she does. I'll definitely agree to the fact that the role was abysmal, but surely one's actions should count for at least as much as the role, no? Neither did I pray once, I was thinking that by my wanting to join the Fort, I was showing more than enough willingness to become Maran. I'll put it this way: it's up to me whether I want to join the Fort or not, but I think it's really up to you guys to keep a close watch on those who actually joined them, to 'promote' them. I thought I did my part, and I expected you to do yours. As I already said, European playing times suck, and I do understand that I built up quite some hours outside your playing times, but still, you're not the only one right?

As to the interaction, and I would like you to see this as a general advise, rather than a 'Sil rant': when someone of the Cabal does something wrong according to *you* - the Immortal Leader - and you don't let them know via any way - cb-channel/shrine talk/tell/captain or marshall - but simply make a mental note or PBF note or whatever, and wait for them to make it up, I do think that's not being correct/fair. Your being a leader, makes it part of your job to correct people, push them in the right way, punish them or whatever. But don't let them just carry on without any way of communication. It really isn't any accusation, nor do I require an apology from any of you, I'm sure that I'm to blame for a part of it. But I think there's a lot more people who *do* like immteraction, then there are who don't.

Peace out.

Every single Imm in the history of CF is guilty of this exact behavior, both toward empowerees and their cabal members. For whatever reason it seems to them that nudging people like that is playing their character for them and going to piss them off.

Hint Imms: if a character is in a cabal, it entails dealing with Imms and even I know that. So don't screw off when someone screws up, sack up and notify them. Even if it doesn't work for one specific dude it'll work for the majority of them, or they will delete. Either way, you're better off than doing nothing. This is true for Empowerment as well, while you shouldn't expect near-comstant interaction with your God you should consider it's well within the realm of possibility, if remote.

If they are being boring, tell them that. Even if it means giving them a quest you know they can't or won't complete. Give them partial credit for the attempt. Likewise, do more than just a lame title and a few snickers for the people that are ####ty/unsportsmanlike players.

You do even that much and you'll have at least a few players trickling back.

And before you get your back up and say it's your choice, you also already understood when you Imm'd that it was equally your responsibility. You want that not to be the case, go get level 60 and then hide away to code only.

But I still agree with most of this post.

Lets use Empire as the 'perfect example of a cabal'.

Its easy to join. You can work your way up the ranks, gaining more powers as you progress. You have to actively be a solid contributor and have a presence in the cabal to get to the upper eschelons, Sect leader, Emperor. A bit of Imm proding and interaction along the way can guide you, but basically you make your way in the world.

Fortress...

Its pretty easy to join. As long as you are awake when fortress leaders are and are not Russian. You get crappy powers until you catch the eye of an IMM and get bumped up. Leaders get a shiny weapon, or a shiny flask. Wonder if it would work to automate the maranation when a squire reaches 15 PK victories, or something similar. Not sure what would be a fair target.

I wish all cabals had tiers of progression. Then you know you have reachable goals instead of lining up your playtimes with an Immortal to bump you along.

The stuff about as long as you are awake when Fortress Leaders are on isn't true in my case. Granted, I haven't put my effort into joining other cabals as much since I've been spoiled by Empire. Though I do not suggest making other cabals as easy to join as Empire, I think something needs fixing.

Since I'm an avid Empire player, I decided when I first came back(and after I played a few Imperials) to broaden my resume. I tried to join other cabals, and it is just a bit too difficult for someone that can't put up 5 hours a day(obviously a bit exaggeration but hopefully my point is clear).

I'm all for caps for cabals, but we need to really find a way to make the caps work for ppl who only play one character. It drives me crazy to see players who have two/three/four caballed characters.

Outlanders need something for induction. Lowbie non-ranger classes trying to find leaders through chameleon, camo and improved invisibility sucks :< This probably deserves its own thread though.


Really sorry to derail!