Sat Nov 15 11:30:46 2008

At 9 o'clock AM, Day of Freedom, 11th of the Month of Futility
on the Theran calendar Eleia perished, never to return.

Well, pretty succesfull char I think. At least I met all aims I wished to acomplish while creating third bard almost in row. Not that those aims were something special though. First I wished to beat 200PK mark. Think I accomplished that not that it was too hard concidering the ridicoulus power swing we have. You never lack enemies in Empire but now..well I think you know. Though it was fun kicking all those asses with Empress. Second aim was to give Empire abit of breath. Bard can do it just fine. I'm not the best leader I know but at least I filled my sect and numbers of Empire grew up from 13 to 24.
Now about deletion. Full loot wasn't the reason, it wasn't rage deletion at all. Just found myself tired of playing bards at last After full loot though I had real struggle to regear and make revenge on those fake nexuns. But I just had no heart regathering all those preps. Not that it would take more than 2-3 days but still.

Goodbuys:

Imms - somehow I was pissed off by you a couple of times
Baerinika - I blame you for that powerswing Having half of active fort with your damn tattoo...oh well. I don't maybe they all deserve it though.
Imp - winning your quest and getting nothing left a real bleh taste. If you don't want to reward someone maybe inform about that so that people won't waste 20-30 hours on their weekends.
There was also that arena tournament when I was attacked by Istihl and was fighting right before poisonpen for like 10 rounds and nothing. But then when I song fiend after Istihls tauntings I was immidiately kicked to Sands of Sorrow. Though I dent to believe that wasn't ob purpose.
Hope that wasn't too whiney Other than that I realy enjoy the great game you are running.

Empire:
Ahtieli - you are kick ass. #### haters. Keep rocking.
Zefta - liked you alot. Think you deserve next War Master. But for the Gods sake why did you take that stupid flaw?
Kruniki - could like you more would you log not only when there are other imperials on. Other than that realy good Blade.
Xherves - man, you make so many mistakes in PK Doubt you'd get Elite if not Imp's quest at least not that fast. Though I think you are learning and getting better. Good luck.
Thyran - heard you deleted as well. Sad. Man you were crazy brave. Felt for you though. Having all those defiance palads in Pk as duergar..ouch.
Baglan - hope you didn't get that too personaly. It wasn't about you as player.
Nererial - we had some great fights together early on but then you became pretty dormant.

Fort. It was fun watching how you were disapearing all that sudden when me and Empress were together. That's not about Fort only same was with pretty much all enemies but all other time Fort had minimum 2-3 people online.

Una - you was one of the very few from Fort whome I realy liked. Greate char, greate battles especialy early on when you didn't have virtues/defiance on hand
Synoria - I liked you as Agar. Would like you as Eleia too if not all those whiney tells.
Julaed - the only ass move that I regret was full looting you. For that I appology. Realy lost my temper there.
Befela - you made your legacy work damn good. Though it can eaily lead to you being fulled. I was close to that Good work I bet.
Alot og you I'm missing. Too many I've met on my way

Village. Again despite the fixing of bards defenses almost all of you were punching bags.

Djabree - beast, but we know it.
Charunicain - good work there. I hate village axes
Kretor - I hate cranial ) But was too lazy to get helm. Anyway far not that scary as Djabree.

Scions - after Kharnial and to lesser extend Lezra cabal is just absent.
Varasin - I lied when I was talking that I would full loot you after you stole my girdle. I'd full you anyway just because you were thief.

Outlanders
Aunkdunkel - ...I think enough was said.

Nexus
Pelrin - you gave me faith that Nexus is something more than failed experiment.
recent nexuns - you killed that faith.

Noncabaled
Alzinghul - man you rock. The best orc I've ever seen. The best ally after Empress. Enjoyed fighting alongside.
Vizjun - thanks for twisted staff and other exploring.


Surely missed alot here. Post and reply thing then.

Also if anyone would buy PBF that would be great.

See you in the fields.

I'm both happy and sad to see you gone. Man, with you I always knew it'd be a blast, except those time we had crazy numbers over our enemies. At that point, it wasn't fun. But at the same time, I REALLY looked for reasons to get you anathemad at first since I so badly wanted warmaster. My previous chars saw a few, but as Zefta I never witnessed one single thing. Almost managed to get myself demoted/anathemad instead that time in Galadon.

But then I realized that your char had to be quite old, so I decided just to wait it out. MAN, that was a long wait! 73 years old, I bet you would have had at least 70-100ish hours more.

Not sure what your RP really was, but one always had be on their toes around you. To bad I never managed to figure out more of your role, even though we had a lenghty chat once, but I think you found out ALOT more about my role than I did on yours.

I'm looking forward to see other creations of you, we now know for certain that you can play as many deadly empire bards as you'd like! Now go and play a herald goodie healer, or something equally fluffy.

Nah, good luck to you! See you in the fields!

n/t

Yeah you could wait till your own age/con death About role. Ha. It's realy hard to figure out role of someone who justdidn't have it Exept general Empire guideline. Eleia was just PK char, nothing more.

Umm. It's not my fault that you didn't/couldn't adhere to the rules.

Fine. Just maybe next time post rules before event or at least in the middle. Not in two hours before the end.

The announcements page clearly states the 17th-19th. I started collecting them at 9 pm and stayed at the Inn until nearly 11 pm collecting them. Anybody who prayed before midnight was able to give them as well. Once the clock changed to the 20th, it was over.

October 20, 2008 12:25:27 Eleia prayed from 18207 for: So I just found that Ive missed the end of marble quest. What should I do with my marbles now?

This is totally, 100% your own fault. Just because I cleared up when the contest was ending so I could collect them was posted, does not mean that the dates weren't up a whole week before the contest ran.

That would be 5AM - 7AM my time. Sucks for people who can't squeeze their playing times into such narrow gap. Use a timed mob with 24 hour receiving period next time. It should be 24 hour gap to receive and 24 hour gap to return so everyone can return the marbles on their good hours. The mob can also act as a counter for the returned marbles.

He doesn't have to run a quest at all, you know.

Require coding that Lyristeon isn't qualified to do and would easily double the immortal time investment in running the quest. Probably it wouldn't have been run at all.

I understand it's rough that a quest is run and you can't really participate, but the solutions aren't always as easy as you think.

It's a shame there aren't more that the likes of the Brits can take part in though. And his latest one is one that we can. Even if I only got 2 or 3 or the clues. Bleh.

There is a definite divide though in what quests you can pick up by having mainstream US hours and what you can pick up if you are on the other side of the world.

This is definitely a quest that anyone can participate in. There are players who are sending in their lists already. Which is fine by me.

So that it would be easy enough for Imms like Lyristeon to use in future when they want to run such quests. Basically, someone would need to do the framework and the quest-running Imm would then just dress up the mob, provide the desc and the says.

I guess the point is that that kind of quest works well automated, and would reduce the amount of time involved for the Imm arranging it and allow better timeframe for receiving the items to allow international participation and people's schedules. Maybe some coder could look into it if you guys plan to arrange that kind of quests in future? It would make event arrangement easy, with this kind of semi-automatic event.

Part of the fun for me is the interaction at turning quests items in.

If you only cover a narrow gap of 2 hours, it receive the items during those 22 of 24 hours, in other words, when you're not personally there to receiving them anyway, leaving less people stranded.

Ok what I ment. The quest ended somethere around 6AM Monday by Moscow time. I stayed on till 3AM then went to bed as there was no note in game/nothing on officials that was pointing out the time when the quests would end. And hour later you posted the endtime. It's not big deal now believe me just maybe try to count on that in your future quests.

I play the game for me too. I do the quests for me too. I live in Eastern Standard Time in the U.S. That won't be changing.

The current quest fits the bill for anyone and everyone. And it lasts for three weekends.

Could have been worse at least you didn't give him a marble and then get told you had to wait until he 'asked' you directly for it. ehehe.

Banging on that crazy drum and just being a complete nuissance was exactly what Istihl was. He especially hated you because you were the only character in the game that had the most determination to take that drum from him. I think you took the whole thing a little too personally.

Sorry, I can't take full looting lying douche not too personaliy. That's it. Your taunts..believe me they didn't affect me that much you think.

Just didnt have a lot of other things clicking for the char. Such as a form I wasnt very proud of having(prior to edges coming in of course). So I couldnt just switch it out. And other various things. I enjoyed the roleplay(or lack of it compared to you).

But it was fun. And that is what matters. It not like you couldnt regear yourself. I had to. And so does everyone else. Imperial bard isnt the easiest thing to fight.

I'm guessing you had a bad day and lost patience when I blundered, I reacted how I reacted because that was an especially ####ty day for me. I had some regrets since, probably would get elite now, heh

I felt you were a kickass leader, especially when you would discuss tactics before battle, and not rush in and ask why we didn't do this or that afterwards

As I pointed out in my goodbye thread, it was my first bard, and I learned a lot running around with you, so thank you for that.

I was always glad to see you log on. Having an imperial bard around makes a huge difference.

As far as the dormancy goes: It's a fair point. There was about a 2 to 3 week period where I only played on Sunday, or for a brief day during the week. However, whilst I'm not on frequently these days, I am on for extended periods. I would guess that I'm not far off 30 hours a week at the moment, which isn't too bad. But I had noticed that I hadn't seen you in a long time.

A bard would be nice again right now too. Cabal co-operation appears to be increasing again.

Anyway, Eleia was a beast. Just sucked that you'd always get the kills. heh.

Scions - after Kharnial and to lesser extend Lezra cabal is just absent.
Varasin - I lied when I was talking that I would full loot you after you stole my girdle. I'd full you anyway just because you were thief.

That is ALL the fault of Lezra for the poor quality inductions and leaving scion in the crapper. Let's hope the new chancellor/advisor can induct some quality and not necessarily lowbies.

-----Abernyte

I've liked other characters of yours; didn't really care for this one. No discernable RP and mostly just ganging on people you probably could beat straight up.

Make me a believer again with the next!

Hmm, ganger...surely. Know the way to fight 5-6 forties without that? Share please.

..

In that case I loose my most powerfull ability - lullaby. As even if it would land by the time I sing my songs there would be the whole Fort. Finding someone alone and make them fight one on one wasn't an option though for the most of the enemies. From certain point most of them were just getting their asses out at first sight of me in the same area.

...with your gang of Fortlander, yeah, you do all the time.

You really do catch them alone.

nt

Nobody is begrudging you taking some people with you to charge at 8 people.

But I doubt that's even 1% of your fights.

nt

How many times do you think you charged at the gangs you are talking about by yourself?

5-6 rarely, 3-4 - often.

nt

~

PBF won't show which groups I was facing when killing someone. It would show though to what groups I died but that's not exactly what we are talking about.

What a PBF shows is, over a character's lifetime, what their average pks were according to the gank-o-meter. A long lived character that is cabaled and decent can reasonably expect to have a 1.80 rating. Exceptional is getting it below a 1.60. Bleh starts at 2.00.

Then you have the few who have over 50 kills and get it sub 1.25. Granted, the vast majority of those are ragers. When I see a player doing that, they get some mad props.

When a character is long-lived and is known for jumping groups and consistently coming out on top, these are things we notice. There have been plenty of characters who show no fear. Kostyan, Nreisshe, Djabree and others like them. (These are all players that have that sweet 300 kills + assists with an awesome pk ratio that come off the top of my head). We know they jump groups because they did it with such great consistency that you couldn't miss it.

Then we have the guys who have the 300 kills + assists that have the 2.00+ ratio. 200 or more of the 300 are not solo kills. Many of these characters are not seen doing the risk taking and getting the props they think they deserve.

Where the problem lies is that every once in awhile, a guy who thinks he was all that starts talking about another player when they really shouldn't. And you leave the people in the know no choice but to tell the instigator that they really shouldn't.

Eleia was very good in groups but, wasn't the type of character who took the risks that other players do.

Now that you are talking about taking risks that's pointless to continue. Though I got you point just can't agree that you can judge that basing on numbers.

That was Daevryn's stance. I was just supporting it with the numbers. The PBF will not only show that, but the things that were seen during the lifetime of the character. Nobody is saying that Eleia was a bad character. Probably just not as good as you might think based upon some of your responses about other characters.

I'm not saying Eleia did not gang, she did. But she also took a lot of risks and faced bad odds. It's simple to see if char takes risks or no. If char dies from time to time, he takes risks for sure.

Let's see this part of your message: Bleh starts at 2.00.

Llondolis - 2.62 - bleh?
Iltanthal - 2.24 - double fort bleh?
Kernagor - 2.18
And both these chars were good and took risks.

Iltch - 2.12
Eoria - 2.07
Gondrak - 2.00
Cezar - 1.97 and he is villager
These don't need comments too

and so on and so on.

Gang-o-meter numbers proves nothing actualy.

The three Forties you mentioned ALL were willing to fight alone and take risks. PBFs and pretty much all enemy players will vouch for that. But because they played when Fort numbers were huge, and were involved in a LOT of group on group battles, their numbers are inflated.

Let's say the three of us were grouped, and took down another group of three. If each one of us lands a kill, each one of us would have a 3.00 gank-o-meter ranking. Reasonable? Obviously not.

Lyristeon, you say that the PBF doesn't lie. But it does misrepresent statistics, which you apparently consider gospel. I only hope I'm misunderstanding you, and you don't really judge characters based on that number while they're still active.

Umm...did you even read the histories of these characters? Aside from Eoria, who consistently put themselves against bad odds, where is the extra love for them? That's right, none of them got anything special. How many of these people bad mouthed other players when they shouldn't have? Again. None.

*Edited part - I also stated with 50 pkills. Below that, the numbers skew very quickly one way or the other.

Now, let's take a look at the people who got the love recently for doing things well:

Djabree: 1.30
Lezra: 1.60
Kharnial: 1.72
Macha: 1.77
Mizfara: 1.49
Klurak: 1.62
Deas: 1.34
Kostyan: 1.54

These were all players that were generally respected for doing what they did. They didn't post crap about anyone else and just kicked ass and were recognized for it.

Gank-o-meters prove a lot more than they don't.

Usually it proves that you should think before you speak, which Eleia did not do.

I DO think everytime I say something. Also I haven't complained about Eleia didn't get Imm's love. At all. Exept the quest which I won. But I fail to see how's that connected with ganking.

No. The insult came from you about Seyriannia. This is why we use the term "The pot calling the kettle black." Your numbers don't support you badmouthing another player for something that you were worse at for the longest time.

I would sign under each of my previous words about that character. And numbers are nothing here. I just fail to remember her comming alone to retrieve against 3-4 people or even defend. I fail to remember her not calling someone into fights, I rarely remember her fighting odds at all.
Also. How many PKs I had before WarMastering? I doubt more than 20. So you fail your own argument here. We should talk about 50+ PKs aren't we?

Seyrianna was way better than you.. or you were way worse than he. Whatever. You should commit suicide after that

This has been taken way out of context. My only point is that you shouldn't bad mouth another player of things that you are guilty of as well. Don't make me quote the bible about tossing the stones.

~

They all total up over a character's lifetime. Even with your pks after becoming Warmaster, your numbers are still not so good percentage wise. You should not have badmouthed another player over ganging.

Fine. Do you allow me to badmouth her for being coward? As that always was my main point about her. Though to be honest I don't need you to allow me that.

You can say what you want about anyone. But, you have to allow it to go both ways if you do.

Actually, I'm laughing.

I recall some defenses. The truth is, we were not raided often when I was on.

Second off..There was clear distinction between us was I was not out to beat 200pk mark with no rp.

Third off, you said you rolled Eleia to fight Fortlander. You played Kornuel during the majority of it. I did fight Kornuel alone on occassion. Everytime you teleported after I landed something important. Thats smart, is it not? The probability of killing you solo was low. Can you really blame me for bringing in another tripper if one is available to kill an Imperial Warmaster?

Fourth, I did fight plenty of battles alone. You just dont care to remember the attempts. You'll remember the deaths.

I didnt even get 100 pks. So my ganging only succeeded so many times. And not that many. The point was the people that did die and caused the most forum bs was big named chars.

did Eleia bad mouth? Seyrianna and Aunk? I though that most people agree with Eleia here. Did he bad mouth anyone else?

pbf shows only pkills but to make statement based on numbers you must count ALL fights(without pkills too) because when someone charge against big numbers he rarely kills any..

But the ones who do, like the ones I listed, are recognized for it and don't have to talk about other characters. But, even if they did speak about other characters, they have the numbers to prove it.

The PBF can mislead.

If Eleia was taking groups of three against groups of 4, and only killing one of the four, without dying, the PBF will show a 3 v 1 kill, and not reflect that there were four people on the other side at the time.

Exactly. Which is why Eleia was known as someone who was very successful in groups.

I didn't interact with Eleia and I can't say anything good or bad about her, but:

Talking about ganging based on PBF is really really dumb. Really.
Gank meter is so misleading in so many ways that I don't even understand how someone can consider making any conclusion from it. It's just fun stat, nothing more.

And talking about how brave was Nreisshe is the funnies joke I've heard in a month or so. Because anyone with a clue knows that he was login-camoed, ambush, logout type of a player. Great roleplayer? Probably. Cool character overall? Probably. Brave? Hell no.
I expect that nobody believes me, so I put words of other big boy here (from Nreisshe PFB):
Sun Aug 28 10:58:44 2005 by 'Drokalanatym' at level 36 (158 hrs):
Watching a little more, I understand the ratio. *Very* conservative play style. We're talking the Republican National Convention of rangers here. Not that there's anything wrong with that It's effective.
Wed Dec 28 12:27:32 2005 by 'Aarn' at level 44 (249 hrs):
Seems to delight in killing... well, everyone. Maybe I'm missing something, but the times I've observed her, she's just a mass pker.

After all, brave characters don't get 300-4 pk ratio because, well, brave characters are supposed to take risk and when you take risks you die sometimes. Not 4 times per 300 kills, unless you are a lich.


I honestly believe you should get rid of pk stat at all. Don't show it to anybody. It would be better for the game if you remove any sort of recognition for cheap-numbers-race in PK.

>I honestly believe you should get rid of pk stat at all. Don't
>show it to anybody. It would be better for the game if you
>remove any sort of recognition for cheap-numbers-race in PK.

I mostly agree with this, but the decision isn't mine to make alone.

I remember the days where people claimed they racked 400+ PKs with their characters and after a while it became so much background noise. It is nice to have some honest assessment, and further, it makes it easier to engage in some valuable self evaluation when comparing your skills agains "the Greats."

that when you don't have these stats, people need not to do all that ####ty stuff to achive high numbers. They can simply claim that they are 500+ pk machines. So they did.

But now people are "forced" to go on cheap pk-harvest run to prove the size of their ####s. And since you need to make real actions for it, they actually go out and do that cheap stuff.
And it hurts the game.

I mean, c'mon people, just go and play. Why every second one is obsessed with pk ratio and is doing everything shady to achieve it?
I prefer the old way, claim your greatness without actually doing the stuff.

# of pks is good.

Value of pks is better.

Having both gives an honest assessment.

nt

When Nreisshe hit level 40, they were 67-1. When they hit 51, they were 134-2.

Mon Dec 5 20:15:29 2005 by 'An Immortal' at level 43 (231 hrs):
An Immortal added 1500 exp for: Went to the underdark to hunt the tribs, found the group of three, killed two and the third got lucky with a flee in the right direction.

Thu Apr 13 16:11:47 2006 by 'XPadd' at level 51 (425 hrs):
Lyristeon added 1500 exp for: Setting up a sweet trap and killing four maran and changed her title to reflect her being one of mine.

Not all things may show up. But, she repeatedly jumped gangs. Maybe Daevryn caught her on a bad day or something, but, she was all that and then some.

I saw dozens of Nreisshe's kills. Did I see Nreisshe fight more than one person at a time? Sure, all the time.

Were these groups people who had what I would consider a realistic chance to kill her? No. Typically they were people with groups with low damage output and little or no lagging ability, that she would attack from surprise with a boatload of preps.

This is all smart as a ranger, and required player smarts to creep up on a group, see their gear and damage output, and weigh whether it would be safe or not, but honestly a warrior who fled and quaffed teleport any time he got hit even once in a fight would be playing less conservatively than Nreisshe generally did. It was very successful, but it still is what it is. For me as a third-party observer, it's much more fun to watch fights where the outcome is in doubt.

Of course, this is all horribly off on a tangent now.

Perhaps. I just think that if you are a group of three or four and a single person jumps you, it takes smarts and some guts.

The first time I had you jacked on eastern and cleaned you out before the Empress came back for you was just awesome. After that, I tried cleaning you out again without jacking you first only to find myself slept and spelled up about as bad as the Empress would do. Never again did I try stealing from you without jacking you first... Failed jack would mean certain death for me, as in the Shadow Grove that one time.

I think those are the few times that I found you not following the Empress around, because I just wouldn't even really take my chances around her after awhile.

Anyways, thanks for never really full looting me. I must say, I sort of expected a full after I stole nearly all of your inventory that time, but I never came back to a completely empty corpse, which was nice.

Good luck with your next.

A really solid char. Really made me respect bards! You seemed well rp'd and I understand having a bad day. you did well, and i am glad that we had a few discussions. glwyn

It's a huge loss for Empire, given how much ragers will be around soon. I enjoyed all fights we had together. You always were up for hard raids/reraids where you had good chances to die and few times you died . This bard was much better than Kornuel and Liriana(?) though few times I was wondering why you did this or that thing instead of another, usualy that were times when you died

I foresee some posts about you being gangy but since you were always up to face gang, I don't see problems with it.

Good luck with your next.

p.s. Roll imperial!

I loved fighting Ahtieli and Eleia.. when ya'll were the only Imperials on. It seemed both of you were more than willing to fight, even if the likely result was a massive Fort gank standing against you. And I think I did a pretty good job of giving you a 1 on 1 fight, whenever possible (with all the various goodies I've played against ya).

But the converse was, if you ever had the opportunity to gang down someone else, you jump on it. It'd be nice if that ballsy playing when you were the underdog, would carry over to when you were on top.

It sucked because it seemed like you two in particular (along with many/most of th other Imperials) didn't even consider the possibility of NOT being attached at the hip when you were both online.

And I think that's where the disconnect between your perspective and everyone who complains is at. You focus on the positive of you facing the groups when you're the underdog, everyone else focuses on the negative of you ganging them down whenever you have the opportunity to do so.

I guess it evens out.. kinda.

explain you another point of view long ago, Java. You should always keep in mind that your view of Eleia or Ahtieli is quite one sided.

I can understand why you think the way you think. But you are not even trying to understand what I tried to explain you some time ago.

So keep posting whiny posts and try to tie my char with forum person on QHCF. Good luck.

That a lot of people will accuse Eleia of ganging, while ignoring the massive gans Eleia faced.

I think it's a valid point. And honestly, I've been trying to give you both the benefit of the doubt.. looking back, I don't think this post was negative at all.

As far as trying to tie your char with some forum persona.. I never did that. I never had any much interest in knowing who your player is, much less outing you before you delete. Maybe you're confusing me with someone else as far as all that.

>That a lot of people will accuse Eleia of ganging, while
>ignoring the massive gans Eleia faced.

True

>I think it's a valid point. And honestly, I've been trying to
>give you both the benefit of the doubt.. looking back, I don't
>think this post was negative at all.

Perhaps

>As far as trying to tie your char with some forum persona.. I
>never did that. I never had any much interest in knowing who
>your player is, much less outing you before you delete. Maybe
>you're confusing me with someone else as far as all that.

Quite possible

yeb i do many misstakes... DEAL WITH IT

was supossed to be a smiley face behind.. : - )

Thanks man, you were super tough. I think your fiend got me a couple times without breaking a sweat. Keep on keepin on, I really like the bunch of Imperials right now. All class from what I've seen.

I had fun fighting against you as Bruntaur, though I'll readily admit fiend made fighting you a daunting prospect at times. The odds were typically either grossly in my favor, or yours, but I would like to think I stuck it out through the bad odds a bit better than you seemed to perceive. I know Ahtieli can verify that I took risks that bordered on suicide runs, but I always tried to contend, even if the chances of success were bad.

You seemed to know your business, and I think the only time we caught you with your pants down was when you'd just finished raiding Outlander and my group ran into you on the road walking out.

Well done with this char, and good luck with the next.


Cartherlen

>I had fun fighting against you as Bruntaur, though I'll
>readily admit fiend made fighting you a daunting prospect at
>times. The odds were typically either grossly in my favor, or
>yours, but I would like to think I stuck it out through the
>bad odds a bit better than you seemed to perceive. I know
>Ahtieli can verify that I took risks that bordered on suicide
>runs, but I always tried to contend, even if the chances of
>success were bad.
>
>You seemed to know your business, and I think the only time we
>caught you with your pants down was when you'd just finished
>raiding Outlander and my group ran into you on the road
>walking out.
>
>Well done with this char, and good luck with the next.
>
>
>Cartherlen

Like if player of your caliber need my verification btw I think fiends of tragic bard with fiend edge should be reviewed by Imms.

Well, I haven't taken that edge with any of three my tragic bards. Not that I tried hardly though. Fiend of tragic bard is good itself I guess.