Fri Apr 27 15:23:46 2007

At 2 o'clock AM, Day of the Bull, 8th of the Month of the Dragon
on the Theran calendar Lathimas perished, never to return.

I haven't played an empowerment char in awhile (did numerous druids, shamans, and healers), and this one definitely didn't go the way I wanted it to. I managed to pull myself up from the regular savage beatings that come from being an elf surrounded by bloodthirsty enemies, thinking things would turn around if I could convince my patron Imm to grant me a tattoo or virtue or something, but all of the signs and interactions I kept saying that this was never going to happen. I wasn't even able to get Baerinika to answer my prayers in the last 60-70 hours over the last month.

I've got to say that it was pretty discouraging for whoever the Imm was to tell me I was greedy/hoarding when I was wearing mostly sub-standard crap for my level, half of which wasn't even limited. But, that was probably what I needed to hear so I wouldn't bother wasting any more time on a character that was never going to get the Immteraction loving that is absolutely required from being an underpowered empowerment class.

I've had numerous empowerment characters in the past, but don't think I'll ever bother with paladins again. See you in the fields.

If you've had successful empowerment characters in the past, then I'm not sure why you'd let one bad experience dissuade you from ever playing one again. If anything, you might consider not playing another Baerinika follower, but if she responds with some constructive criticism then even that could be made to work.

Will be interesting to (hopefully) hear Baerinika's side of the story. Clearly there are some characters she "likes" (Xinrithil), so at least somebody's getting Baerinika imm-love.

A virtue makes a lot of difference. However, you could have attacked me on a couple of occasions and you backed off. If your gear isn't great, you might as well take some risks (whereupon you'd have found my groupmates were not going to get involved in the fight).

Paladins can definitely be tough, but I think it was pretty obvious that this just wasn't your style of character.

Better luck with the next!

I watched Lathimas quite a bit and I do have to admit I wasn't a huge fan of this character. I can log on and mostly idle from work, but I do try and watch my followers even if I can't really RP with them or do empowerments during the day. I watched Lathimas a lot and most of the time I didn't even remember I was watching your RP until I saw you quit off because of how little you did.

That said, it isn't easy to be a Baerinika paladin. She's sphere purity through and through, and to her if you're going to make the commitment of being a paladin you need to do it 100% and treat every single word of the code as sacred. If she sees you doing things against the code, then she thinks you shouldn't be a paladin. I don't want to come down on you because Lathimas WAS good enough to stay empowered all the way, I just didn't see that extra bit I look for that makes me want to hand out virtues. (Tattoo is another story, no one's gotten that yet!)

That said, some advice/things I saw from Lathimas that made Baerinika not favor her:

At your second empowerment you asked for your temporary title back. That put my teeth on edge a little. I'll give titles, permanent or temporary, when I think they're deserved.

Your generally cold attitude towards other goods asking for help. You were a Fortress app but when I'd see Fortress and other goodies asking you for help in retrieving or anything else you would always turn them down because you were too busy exploring. If you're going to play an empowerment and caballed character, be ready to put the RP before the exploration. It's important.

Your last role chapter. You know what it said. I wanted to unempower you after reading it. Dragons? It was like you didn't even try to be a part of the religion. I don't expect everyone to wrap themselves up in jungle vines and start clawing at everything evil that moves, but you could have tried.

Today, I was the immortal who spoke to you as my high priestess. You obviously thought I was wrong, but I looked at you and was really surprised to see what you had on you. I understand perfectly well that people will get gear to give gear away, and I can say I've never come down on a paladin before for 'greed' against the code, but I felt you were over the top. A beautiful set of gear, which is fine. But you had an extra two HIGH limit shields in your inventory, two spare jade talismans, high limit extra boots, and SIX weapons, among other things. For someone who's a stickler to the code, I couldn't let that go without saying something. And I was disappointed to hear excuses from you. The code is pretty clear on not keeping massive amounts of wealth, and the help request file is also pretty clear on what to do with that stuff. If you don't need it, don't get it. If you're going to give it away, do so. It felt excessive to me. And I didn't punish you for it (I've come down a lot harder on some other paladins who ignored warnings), instead I suggested you change the way you did things. I feel in my empowerments like I make it extremely clear about what I expect with regards to the paladin code. If a god goes out of their way to warn you about how they feel about something, pay attention. I don't put out the requirements of my religion as a joke; I mean what I say.

That said, I felt your frustration with elf paladin. It is hard to play. I think you would have been better off with human, something with a slightly less mean range.

All in all, I completely understand that everyone has a different playing style. Some people want to do a lot of heavy pk and skim the RP, and some want to RP more. You wanted to explore and not do a lot of either RP or PK. You have a religion with a very active god and the chances are there to earn the extra stuff, but you have to actually be trying for it and not just expecting to get it for logging on.

I hope that you try both paladin and my religion again. I didn't mean for this to be a bad experience for you. As I said, I watched Lathimas a lot looking for a reason to give her a virtue or a bonus, but I couldn't just hand it out for not a lot. It was also more that I could tell you had a great character in you, but you didn't want to put the effort forth. You should be playing to have fun, and paladin felt like a chore for you. Next time, try and go into it with fun in mind.

There will be no white flag above my door. - Dido

Stones taught me to fly
Love taught me to cry
So come on courage
Teach me to be shy
Cause it's not hard to fall - Damien Rice

What doesn't kill you makes a fighter, footsteps even lighter - Kelly Clarkso

If it was a chore for the paladin, and other paladins are not enjoying your religion maybe you need to find a way to communicate?

Players need to know the spirit of what your religion is based upon. I know you are a female Goddess but trying to get someone to read your mind IC to get excited about being a follower is not going to happen. If I have to OOZE ode de Jaguar it would best knowing that.

This is why I dislike the recent high rate of turnover of Imms. Just when a player gets the gist of one religion POOF here comes a new one.

This is not the first paladin to have had a Baer of a time.

I think I make it pretty clear in my empowerments what I'm looking for. I want you to follow the code to the letter if you're a paladin. If you don't think you can do that, you should follow a different god. I expect my followers to be courageous and not shy away from a good fight. I expect them to stand up for themselves, fighting not only physically, but also mentally for the light. Above all, Baerinika believes you fight for the light - you protect it all costs, body and soul. She expects you to be pure of intention. If you say you're going to do something, do it. She expects you to fight with tactics, learn from mistakes, move on. Value sacrifices and learn from your losses. That's why it's a combat religion.

You don't need to ooze eau de jaguar to get love from Baerinika.

Not all religions in this game are easy. You seem to expect to have a hard time of it from Scarabaeus or Cyradia, but when a good religion actually puts forth a challenge and says 'Be Good' people get up in arms. I don't quite get it. I didn't make this religion to be easy to play, I made it to be good aligned.

There will be no white flag above my door. - Dido

Stones taught me to fly
Love taught me to cry
So come on courage
Teach me to be shy
Cause it's not hard to fall - Damien Rice

What doesn't kill you makes a fighter, footsteps even lighter - Kelly Clarkso

Being a goody on any mud is being behind the eight ball. Why? Because evils drive a mud. Always will. So when you get all ball breakin' towards a character who is already having their balls broken by the horde of evils. You get cranky players who feel screwed coming and going.

Gear, cabals, and loving in general usually go to evils before goods. Which characters come to mind when thinking back? I think if you honestly look back the ones that stick out are pretty much always evil. Valg as a mortal (rotten weasel left a plague in Galadon that nuked my newbie). Neppy's nutjob AP(pked me when he was at level 15 and I was 20ish). That insane Empire AP(single handedly cost my Warlock eight con) that took the first nexus in a gang of three(bard, warrior, shifter:giant squid?) to fell. Etc etc. I have played my fair share of goods, and yes there are some amazing goods but it is the evils that make CF memorable.

We all know what happens if good ever wins, right? Thera ends up stale and boring with nothing but Herald tea parties going on therefore goods can not be allowed to thrive.

I know you want to be all "Thou shall be holier than the OTHERS!" but having a side that allows you to whisper to a follower to keep their spirits up when they look down and/or to give them a lift when they actually do something good is not a bad thing. Remember they are dealing with the Hunsobos/Kanaevs/Kharghulns/Nulohs of Thera. And of course they also have to deal with the hoarders of the Light.

Good does have periods (sometimes long ones) of ascendancy.

Its numbers that matter there. Not really skill. Even when you get really skilled goodies (Lauraine comes to mind) they just pull in numbers by being that rock and you end up with a goodie-style landslide.

Its rare you get someone like Lariya, the perma-hasted monster paladin, that really shakes up evil solo. And even then, there is no comparison to Kharg, Kanaev or any lich/mummy that isn't one I've taken down*

Paladins are sweet with defiance but don't exactly match up to anything a scion can pull in gear and powers. That goes double for necros/aps. Thankfully, prayer beads go halfway to evening things up. I just wish there were more of those suckers to spam dispel evil for me :p

Yhorian


* Palmer is the exception. He must have been sleepy, because he's a beast and I got him as an BQF maran shifter

That make me delete mine before hero or shortly thereafter. I have to really really and I mean REALLY love the char to stick it out. A large part of my burn out with my last one (Landren) was because frustrations with TEAM GOODIE. I poured everything I had into that guy and the majority of the love I got was from my enemies.

If you want the awsome upside of playing a paladin, you should be prepared to accept the hard part, which is the rp. And paladins are a supremely strong class, especially when they have 2 virtues, let alone that occasional badass that gets 3.

I was constantly getting spanked around by Hunsobo/Kanaev/Thos/Kharglurhn and I never once felt like Baerinika wasn't there for me. Try going to talk to her. She doesn't usually trans randomly to you but if you throw her a ball she WILL run with it. For instance, one of the most memorable times I had with her was cleansing the crown/axe/hide from Aran Gird. She pulled an awesome little RP session out of her ass for it, but you the character need to approach her. She is cold like ice, but under that pretty warm, as a Char.

there are other religions in the game. I'm not the only viable choice for paladin. If you want hugs and kisses and someone to coo at you when you mess up, go talk to Corrlaan or Rayihn. If you want a challenging RP experience, come to me.

There will be no white flag above my door. - Dido

Stones taught me to fly
Love taught me to cry
So come on courage
Teach me to be shy
Cause it's not hard to fall - Damien Rice

What doesn't kill you makes a fighter, footsteps even lighter - Kelly Clarkso

Do you give your Paladins back the Con they Lose for Standing at the gate dying during a raid?

Because lets face it, that's what Fortesites do, Paladin or otherwise. I've stood behind a shield before practically begging the others to run so I could and I get...

Not while there's still fight in me!

or my personal favorite.

I don't leave a friend!


And then I split at the last second they die and I'm a Bad Paladin.

If I folloewd the code, I have to die.

What's the pay off?

The payoff of a paladin is that when you actually play a paladin and stick to it you get that 1st or 2nd virtue set that makes you an exponentially tougher opponent or god forbid 3rd. The game mechanic prize is for living up to that you get to be a huge pain in the ass to kill and often times are the reason everyone is fleeing.

The rp payoff is that you were actually able to pull off a paladin. I'm big on self-satisfaction though.

If you lived by the code you'd con die within a week at the fort.

So what is the incentive in this religion that makes con loss and gear farming fun?

I'm not trying to be a ####. But I've had a lot of Pal's and some virtued and I've never heard dink from my Imm's except Aarn.

I ran like hell and tried to engineer situations where I didn't have to die because of others, but it happened.

If I were forced to remain for every fight, I would fast lose intrest since it's not feasible to stick many if not most fights.

I feel that a Pal who does should be getting a LUH-HOAD of perks. Pal's are nothing but grief in a can.

>I watched Lathimas quite a bit and I do have to admit I
>wasn't a huge fan of this character. I can log on and mostly
>idle from work, but I do try and watch my followers even if I
>can't really RP with them or do empowerments during the day.
>I watched Lathimas a lot and most of the time I didn't even
>remember I was watching your RP until I saw you quit off
>because of how little you did.


Thanks for the response. I really wasn't trying to gripe, but if you were really watching me all of the time then you would have known that I had prayed for you or visited your shrine an average of once every hour (atleast, I tried not to do it more than hourly as to not be a pest). I did try to seek enlightenment and chat it up with the various denizens in your shrine for tips, but I was only met with silence. I really wasn't sure what you wanted from a follower, and I didn't think it was very paladin-like to wrap myself up in vines as you said.

It was doubly frustrating trying to contact you during that time while I was applying to be a squire, because I was around a lot but the people I had recommendations from would delete before I could gain your notice. By the time a mortal leader had been appointed, I was already 43rd level and over 100 hours into the hole, and just didn't have the energy or enthusiasm to jump through the hoops anymore.

Anyway, I think I will just chalk this character up to being in the wrong place at the wrong time again. I'm starting to run into a bad string of characters though, despite putting a crapload of time and effort into my roles and development (see Zel for another recent experience that left a bad taste in my mouth). Maybe the problem is just with me not being able to adapt to all of the changes in the mud and immstaff. My aging, selective memory keeps focusing on all of the fun I used to have without even trying, but the mud does seem to be turning into a lot more work for a lot less gain, and once again, that problem might all be on my end of the keyboard.

I've read a number of times where Imms see chars doing nothing and don't hop down to play.

Later that character's player says they felt "aloneish" TM.

Ah well.

I'm rolling up an Empoweree!

Just some advise from an old player, don't be an Astein. Noone like Imms who act like noone is good enough for their Tat or rewards from them. Hard ass is cool, but be a hardass that recognizes player effort and rewards not just the uber elite.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

>>>I'll give titles, permanent or temporary, when I think they're deserved

When I played Theroc, I felt like I have to ask an Imm for the title. Forget the title, it might be a BIG thing. You guys might have to think/get into my RP for that. How about a lastname?

If I say many times in RP with imms that I wish to be known by my full name, doesn't it mean that "Don't give me skill improvement, but rather just the last name".

I played an assassin and I got skill improvement (by imms) in kicks (Side Kick & Wheel Kick) that were past 93%. If I got my kicks to 93%, I do not need skill improvement in those kicks. I already got my next kick. Its worthless to get a reward like that. If you want to reward people, check with their RPs, maybe they would be happy with just something else as small as it may seem.

I am sorry for the rant.