Thu Sep 21 23:15:57 2006

At 6 o'clock AM, Day of the Bull, 1st of the Month of the Shadows
on the Theran calendar Rellosyk perished, never to return.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

Just for everyone to chill.

I mean, I could be wrong, but I don't think there are any real flames in this thread, just a bunch of people misinterpreting each other. I'm thinking when you said to agree to disagree you did honestly mean it; I can't speak for anyone else, but I have noticed you, lately, chilling out and being a cool person on Dio's (I said as much there, in a too-wordy post, much like this one) but still I guess some people still took offense at what you said. That's understandable, it's easy to misread the meaning behind plain text.
I played an Outlander a while ago (Who will go unnamed on account of his RP suckitude) and Krynna was a lot of fun to run around with; never got to really see Jhesar or you, but I've so far heard pretty good things about both of you. Do you want your characters remembered for starting a flamewar? I won't use the cliche that CF is just a game (It'll never be 'just' anything) but I assume that the reason we're here is still to have fun. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say... meh, just relax and let percieved insults go. Usually they're not worth your time, or even just imaginary.

But some people just feel the need to start ####, and see
how far they can take it. Jhesar alone, should have ended his
comments 6 threads earlier, but like so many before seem to
feel this childish need to see how riled up I can get with posting
crap that really leaves having anything to do with my thread.

It's one thing to say your piece, it's another to keep posting,
keep posting, say your done posting, post some more, then just
antagonize the thread with crap spam replies. Really lowers
any respect I might have had, and probably from other onlookers.

I get frustrated with people like that, as I am sure most people
notice. In a perfect world, I post, they reply, I retort, and maybe
one or two more to that reply post. Shame some people have to
revert to elementary level debate to no end until an Immortal steps
in and in most cases, comes down on me about. Suprised Jhesar's
babyfest instigating was actually allowed to go far as it did, but
I'm glad he finally stfu.

Any perceptions I had of him, really came out after deletion with his attitude, but what can you do, some people are just like that. It just chaps my ass, people like him.. you know?

I don't think I start flamewars so much as I have this undying need to defend myself, which of course ends up feeding the fuel to the fire, and in retrospect I need to get back on letting comments slide. Sorry to the Imms for the spam fest on my thread, but I asked him to stop a few times. What can ya do.

Thank you for your words though, I appreciate the sincerity and genuine attitude.

That's why it denegrated.

Someone talks ####? Don't give them the satisfaction of answering.

Your last two characters have been surprises to me, which means you are doing something right. Keep it up. Good luck on your next.

Just not today. No hide, no camo, way more hoops than I would have been willing to jump through. Thought I was going to try anyways, but.. well.


Rellosyk originated to be an uncaballed, then an event led up to him going outlander out of spire to a tribunal. I had already intended to go the lyristeon chaotic route, so I thought it would fit rather well "regardless".

A very tricky kitty, compulsive liar, constant instigator, and pushed any and everyones buttons that he thought he could get a rise out of. His pleasure was being that he could control emotions and actions through manipulation. I would constantly banter enemies, friends, neutrals, everyone I thought
I could 'get' to, in the spirit of preaching Lyristeons religion. Far as full looting, I would get looted left and right, often Felar Only stuff, by non-felar, or by 15 lvl'rs that just follow
the big boys around with grubby hands at at the ready, so I just said screw it and would full loot.sac a good portion of the time.
I sac'd all of Ixtchyls stuff, he deleted and I got a very nice skill improve bonus with exp, so figured it was a good thing, and kept it up. So blame the Imp!! Breaking the fortitude and will of his enemies was a much higher win than landing kills, so
I tried to "get to" anyone and everyone on a regular basis.

I'd break the law, lie about others breaking the law, try to instigate wars, came pretty close once, and a large slew of other things. He was a fairly fun character for the most part.

Events leading up to the end, all I can say is Shame on you cabal Imms for quality control. Anything past that, and I will be stepping over the line as far as what is appropriate, that and I don't have much "nice nice" to say regarding it, so better just left unsaid.

I'll just reply to any who post, I'm sure there are quite a few out there that took my IC a little too personal OOC, so if you're one of them, get over it.

-Rogue


"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

Events leading up to the end, all I can say is Shame on you cabal Imms for quality control.

For the record, I did investigate the whole matter with your eviction last night. When I saw an eviction so early in Krynna's Nightreaverhood, it warranted me looking at the 'whys'. Krynna wasn't even online and it still took me all of 2 minutes to verify that the general cabal attitude towards the matter was "good riddance."

Is there anything wrong with your role? Absolutely not. But if you are going to play a manipulative, deceptive, ####-stirring character, you need to either accept that it's going to earn you the scorn and loathing of everyone you encounter, or make it subtle in certain circumstances and with certain other characters. I believe that would be the "wisdom" part of Lyristeon's religion. For example, perhaps it would have been wiser yet still consistent with your role to feign respect and obedience to the Outlander leaders, rather than just blatantly pissing them off.

If you blatantly piss someone in power off, don't complain when they bite back. And that has nothing to do with Empire-like tyranny. Even in the wild world, there are alpha wolves, and the if runts start chomping on the alpha's tail, they are a-gonna get exiled from the pack.

Anyways, after looking into it, if anything I'm pleased that Krynna has the balls - er, ovaries - to evict in a situation like this. The Nightreaver isn't supposed to be patient and understanding and take crap from other evil Outlanders just because "it's in their role."

I'll also add for the kids tuned in, assassins and thieves are generally walking a fine line in Outlander anyways. If you are going to be an Outlander thief or assassin, it should be solidly clear that your loyalties lie with the Ancients and Thar-Eris.

Granted, I now aknowledge I probably should have used a
bit more restraint and control in exactly whom and how I
was going about my role with. Originally, my perception
was that I was not being a good wolf because I talked back,
refused to follow instruction, and things like that. I'm
from the part of outlander that doesn't neccessarily think
because someone else is in outlander, there is any owned
loyalty or what not. The current leadership however doesn't
feel the same way, so on top of already being an outsider
class to the cabal, I should have expected this to come up.

I began to get very frustrated and let that tear into my
rp at the very end, and for that I apologize. The Immortal whom
I spoke with at the time also was very patient, and respectful
not to mention encouraging. Sorry for my choice of words in
conversing over that matter, and I appreciate the way in which
you kept your bearing during that moment.

In retrospect, being this character was already originally
designed to be a Lyristeon follower WAY above being an outlander,
I should have expected this to come at some point. However for
whatever reason I thought I would get "hide" back after uninduction,
and that was not the case. After spending 94hrs pissing everyone
off, not having hide or camo just wasn't and endeavor I was willing
to face. This is also the highest I've gotten an assassin to
date. I played him like a ranger, and did enjoy most all of
this character.

Thanks for looking into the situation. I think if anything, I should have waited a bit longer till I was a higher rank to challenge
the leader positions for having hopes to displace them.

Thanks Amaranthe.



"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

You're welcome.

I think if anything, I should have waited a bit longer till I was a higher rank to challenge the leader positions for having hopes to displace them.

This is something both Lyristeon and I would wholeheartedly encourage in an evil Outlander. My vision of the evil aspect of Outlander is almost orc-like in its pecking order. I've tried to fish that out of evil Outlanders from time to time, but so far no real bites.

In fact, I had even considered having the Dark Ancients come to you and say the equivelent of "Hey, level up, asssinate Krynna, and we'll not only let you back in, but make you Nightreaver." I didn't get much time to muse that idea over or discuss it with Lyristeon before you deleted, and given how much you apparently annoyed the rest of the cabal I can't say I would have necessarily done it.. but the thought was there. (Heck, the fact that you annoyed the rest of the cabal may have made the whole thing all the more juicy if you had pulled it off.)

There would have been some serious hoop-jumping to get back into Outlander I'd say (unless Krynna were feeling generous), but I suspect it would have taken some fairly minimal roleplaying with Lyristeon to get 'hide' back.

"This is something both Lyristeon and I would wholeheartedly encourage in an evil Outlander. My vision of the evil aspect of Outlander is almost orc-like in its pecking order. I've tried to fish that out of evil Outlanders from time to time, but so far no real bites."

Not because it isn't true, or shouldn't be the way of things, but because it never happens.

>> This is something both Lyristeon and I would wholeheartedly encourage in an evil Outlander. My vision of the evil aspect of Outlander is almost orc-like in its pecking order. I've tried to fish that out of evil Outlanders from time to time, but so far no real bites.

Currently, there is nothing (AFAIK) that prevents the nightreaver from just pressing the uninduct button as soon as you attack. All in all, there are too many technical hindrances to seizing leadership positions in a chaotic evil way. Also, challenging somebody to a duel isn't very chaotic evil. It should be all about smoking them when they're hurt and down.

What you should do is change it so that when an evil outlander kills the nightreaver, he or she then becomes nightreaver per automation. Also, if this happens per automation and is an accepted part of the outlander culture, you'll have a platform for interesting power struggles that don't end with one coup (you don't get uninducted if you fail / automatically boot the new leader if you succeed).

This is not a bad idea, but I'm not sure the current cabal population would support it. Also, I do like having some imm control over who is a cabal leader, and there would have to be a lot of failsafes in check before I think automation would be a feasible idea. (For example, currently a Nightreaver *can* technically uninduct goods and neutrals - but under imm control, they get a big speech with the details about when it is acceptable to do so (almost never).

But all the same, I have had the Dark Ancients actually *tell* people directly they can kill the Nightreaver to replace him, or in the case of when there is no Nightreaver, take two contenders aside and basically say "whichever you kills the other first, gets to be Nightreaver", and so far it's never played out. Either it was impossible to do login time logistics, or the people in question didn't bother to try.

While it might sound not all that bad theoretically, I can easily imagine many situations when automatic solutions like that one would lead to unproper leadership decisions and heavy abuse. Let's just look at some examples.

For example, we have leader Akella the Nightreaver, and pack member Soandso. Soandso have just reached pk range of nightreaver. Three imperials come to raid the Tree and Akella, being a good nightreaver, defends Spirit as hard as he can. Soandso, being a wimp, who cares to much of his precious gear and not cares even a bit of Thar-Eris or Spirit OR having actually a plan (but still not defending), waits nearby not doing a single sing to defend.

Let's even imagine Akella won or, alternatively, fled with 50 hp and hiding somewhere. He is blind and hurt. Soandso comes and finishes Akella with one ambush/strike whatever. He full loots nightreaver and immidiately renegades him from the Tree. RP line being 'Akella missed the prey! He is old and useless, pack does not need useless wolves'. Or simply because being an arse is in his *gasp* chaotic evil ROLE.

So what we have here? In extreme scenario someone with 50 losses and 1 win, with Imm comments like 'This guy does not know a chicken #### about RP', 'This guy was noticed helping imperials to level' etc, who was not ever defending because he is powergames afraid of losing his L33T rings, who only knows of Thar-Eris from helpfiles, becomes the leader of the cabal.

I would say this is BS.
While it is suitable for loner char or orcs (after all orcs do care only about brute strength, they don't have global RP line to follow), it is completely pointless from the point of cabal. Note! Even orcs do not choose chief like that. There is a formal procedure of challenging and stuff.

Another point.
Such situation is not fair to classes who rely on camo, ambush, snares etc. Aka rangers. As cabal mates can see you, do not trigger snares etc. So brute strength classes have serious advantage.

Another point.
Again, if you read Jack London or some books about behavour of wolves in pack, even in wild packs if current Alpha seems to be ok with pack in general, there are good chances that pack will defend him from challenger. I am NOT saying that it is applicable in this case. But the point being that if wilf animals with, in MUD equivalent, 2-3 INT have some pack feeling and rules to follow, then intelligent creatures with 15+ INT and such things as ideology and RP line, should definately have some.

Don't get me wrong. I am all up for 'The strongest must lead Nightreavers' scenario. But it should be DEFINATELY immortal driven.
And to make it fair to classes who rely on tactics rather then on brute strength, the challenger should lose the ability to see cabal mate (if he does not have acute), walks past snares etc. for the duration of the challenge.

In my ideal picture it should be like:
1) Dark ancient allowing challenger to challenge.
2) Current nightreaver chooses place (but wilderness only).
3) For the duration of challenge they are technically not cabal mates.
4) The one who dies or leaves the chosen area loses.
5) The winner cannot renegade the loser without loser being given chance for rematch.

Something like that.

Use the flag to allow a situation that isn't so clean and orderly as what you suggest.

Sounds a lot more like sylvan then outlanders to me. Thought all that pack nonsense was not really apart of outlanders, anyway, just my two cents.

Outlander is Thar-Eris oriented, not as much "nature" oriented.

I see Outlander as collective renegades whom work together on occasion, but for the most part are a 'to each their own' band
of "individuals". The pack-mentality should have died with Sylvan,
because that was what it was reserved for. A lot of rangers join
outlander, so it's easy to bring that thought process back into
things, which is ok, however not foundational. Krynna does not
grasp this concept, but there is a very big underlining difference.

This of course, my opinion. Had I taken the time and effort
to continue the character, I would have pressed this as I strove
to upseat Krynna, which I believed very feasible, but in the end
it would have been a *lot* more work than I would have enjoyed.

I wanted to run, I wanted to kill, and I wanted to have free reign to be the chaotic little thorn I was, when that moment passed so did
Rellosyk. It was mistake and impulse on my part to involve this character in the cabal, because he was not orginally intended for it, and I knew then I probably wouldn't get very far, however I was
enjoying the explore of the class, and I love the outlander cabal.

Lyristeon, Amaranthe, Innis, are by Far, my favorite cabal imms of any cabal I've participated in. It is always a pleasure playing up to them, and interacting with them. Still, in hindsight placing Rellosyk in the cabal was like placing a sqaure peg through an O. Sure, I could force it, and did for a while, but with the design of the RP I had for him, it was just a time bomb. Schmeh

I enjoyed this character 100% regardless, and have no ill feelings towards outlander. Mine towards Krynna in particular, more so fall under her posting so much with her character on the other site, and her trying to get involved in things that weren't her buisness IC. From my perspective.

Hardwiring leadership is NOT a good idea.

Congrats on getting the position btw. Well-deserved.

>> In my ideal picture it should be like:
1) Dark ancient allowing challenger to challenge.
2) Current nightreaver chooses place (but wilderness only).
3) For the duration of challenge they are technically not cabal mates.
4) The one who dies or leaves the chosen area loses.
5) The winner cannot renegade the loser without loser being given chance for rematch.

A system like that would not add anything at all to the everyday gameplay of being an E_O. Imms in any cabal can already set up formal duels for the leadership if they want to. And not to mention, a system like the one you suggests would definitley be lopsided in favor of the existing nightraver.

I do agree that it should be affected by immortals, if not driven. Affected in the way that if somebody hurts Thar-Eris (like you describe in your "scary scenario" above) in their strive to become nightreaver, or if they are just plain worthless as a leader, the dark ancients will give them the boot. That obviously includes such theoretical scenarions as a nightreaver booting all other E_O's in his pk range to prevent them from challenging him/her.

I think the absoultely best thing would be to keep it running per automatics, and have the dark ancients step in if somebody abuses the system. Honestly,


>> Another point.
>> Again, if you read Jack London or some books about behavour of wolves in pack, even in wild packs if current Alpha seems to be ok with pack in general, there are good chances that pack will defend him from challenger. I am NOT saying that it is applicable in this case. But the point being that if wilf animals with, in MUD equivalent, 2-3 INT have some pack feeling and rules to follow, then intelligent creatures with 15+ INT and such things as ideology and RP line, should definately have some.

Sure the other outlanders should/could have some pack feeling. So if they're not happy with the new nightreaver, they kill him and take his place. Could even surrender position to the first nightreaver if they want to. Again, that's the kind of stuff that should be handled by mortals as far as possible. Still, outlanders aren't sylvan, and anything that deals with wolves, cubs or packs should be treated as character quirks, and not the main line.

Amaranthe, I am impressed. You've managed to understand the situation so fully and accurately without even being there. As it is EXACTLY what happened there.

Let me add something though.

The one reason why he managed to stay in cabal for so long is that I didn't want to start my leadership with renegading anyone immidiately, without even communicating with Dark Ancients even once. In addition, I felt kinda guilty as I was the one who recommended him to be inducted in the first place (Nrei didn't even talk to him, just inducted on my recommendation).

But I also remembered your words about Dark ancients and their temper, so I just HAD to teach him a lesson. I kinda hoped that ranger will make better (as I was planing to assist him if he only fought in a bit smarter way), but it didn't work. So I asked Xeyveil to teach 'this annoying ignorant cub' a lesson, and was very pleased when it worked out. I hoped it will make him think of what pack is about, and about 'three different branches but still one tree' stuff. But it didn't.

And soon we moved to the point where if I tolerated him any longer, it would be a sign of MY weakness. Which I could not allow to happen. I kinda planned it to happen when he will be in my PK range so I could slay him a couple of times and prove who is Alpha here. But it happened before it. So bad (?) luck on his side.

I was kinda ready to accept him back if Imp would wish so. Again, just to show him and prove Dark ancients that I am Alpha in this pack, but he has chosen to delete. Oh well, his choice. But again, for future references, Rogue, if you call someone weak and then losing will to live (deleting), it kinda shows that YOU was weak (IC), and the one who made you die was strong. IMHO.

Again, nothing personal. I liked this char. But he was too much pain in the arse, he obviosly did not understand the ways of Thar-Eris and pack, and he was trying to prove everyone that I am weak and he is strong, which I could not tolerate IC any longer. That's about it.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

604hp 116m 454mv (4533tnl 9 AM)
Rellosyk tells you 'If think so, an has use noreply make feel stronger, cause just got tooled'


That whole situation was a riot. Listening to you yell and scream because of what happened made it difficult for me to even get my commands in, I was laughing so hard. Unfortunately, it was at you, and not with you. You really need to work on keeping your emotions seperate from the game, or at least not letting them come through like you did. Good luck with the next.

I messed something up on keep reply there, and thought for
some reason you, like Quite a few others were doing the whole
last word/no reply deal, and called you on it. I've used it
a few times myself, but generally that is when I have finished
conversation and don't want "keep" to be used to track if my
character is still online.

I can say though, from the SECOND you opened your mouth, you
just screamed with big nasty orc roleplay. Very stand out and
for that I commend you. I've played a lot of hard up characters,
but I can't stomache the orc game, so my hat's off.

Aside from that, you "did" get your ass kicked the second
round of our fights, and were running around the battlements
like a chicken with your head cut off trying to not let me
catch you, so with knowing that I had a chance if I could just
get a skill off before a bash or on a missed bash, I could
drop you pretty easy, I was trying to get you riled up enough
to say screw it and come charging in while I had a transmuter
in my pocket. I forget what happened after the second fight
but I just ran into something better to do.

Real nice orc though, you gave me the orc willeys with your
speech; nicely done, keep it up!

There was no next bash coming. You bested me the second time around because you prepped the only way a fighting class could prep to conceivably beat an orc in those circumstances. I couldn't bash (reduce + two-handed vuln weapon/regular two-handed weap-wields), grapple (spider) or trip (fly). My preps were minimal, and you were going to be worded out (as proved by the first run-in) if things got nasty for you. (NOTE: Very well versed in all the orc skills, so I know I left out 'alternatives', they just suck). Thus, I did not waste many preps (or skins) and just casually (since I bothered to even let youy chase me around the battlements, if only to taunt the hell out of you) worked my way out of your reach. I'm not sure I'd say I was a chicken with my head cut off, but you're certainly entitled to think that, if you wish. It was just a situation where I couldn't win without bringing interference to your groupmate, so I backed off and let you do your little victory dance.

For what it's worth... That was one of the better fights I've had with the character, and I've looked at the log a couple of times to decide whether or not my first impression was the right one.

In the end I was just trying to come up with whatever I could
to keep that bash off. Keeping you bigger and me smaller helped,
and tactically probably why you did the cat and mouse, which I
attributed to waiting for the size spells to wear off. You did
try a grapple, but bear in mind you were grappling from a felar,
I'm not so sure that was your best option.

I'll reiterate though, because I am very sincere, in that you
come off as one of the most Orcish orcs I've interacted with
in a very long time. And that was a great fight considering how
close the two were, yet how lopsided each fight was. Without that
transmuter I would have been toasted so fast. Enjoy your orc.

I really don't think random full looting and sac'ing should be encouraged. It's not good roleplay, it ain't being manipulative or deceptive, it only angers the player and makes the game less fun. If decent PKers decided to take that path, how many players would quit in frustration? It wouldn't leave you with many people to snoop.

The only situation that I can see warranting a full loot/sac is when you do it to someone who did it to you. So if everyone followed this, there wouldn't be any such #### stirring.

Show some amount of respect for a fellow player please.

You made it pretty clear during our fights that you weren't stopping until I was dead. You kept coming, and coming, and coming. Between that, the flee/sleep tactic, and the sheer amount of wands you had on your person, I would have had to be an idiot *Not* to do it. On the same note you actually acted suprised, like because we fought I would have IC respect. You were dealing with an Outlander applicant, and you also had interupted his training (spam) so while
being a fairly deathly necro, (I figured from the wands in your corpse) I thought OOC it was in my best interest to take you our of circulation for a while, because you'd know where I was, and IC I was pissed because you just kept coming back, and flee/sleep attempting me.

I understand that Necro's that use flee/sleep are smart, and I totally agree it is a viable tactic, however it pisses me off to no end, and if I can help it, I'm going to take you out of circulation
for a while. Judging from the set and wand lists on your corpse, you should have been able to regear just fine, I know I had to quite a few times.

OOC complaints over matter won't bring the gear back though, and I was somewhat suprised yet at the same time Lyristeon was happy, so
schmeh.. It happens.

I didn't think it warranted a delete, unless your set just meant that much to you. Too bad then.

Good luck in the future though!
=Rogue



"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

Not sure if you'd been egging people on before, but I remember when you wanted at somebody in the Spire, so I helped break in and afterwards I picked a fight with you, and argued with you for fun(you know evil/good conflict)...but it seemed after that you picked a fight with everyone. Still I liked Rellosyk(even if he was evil) and having a detect hidden in Outtie is sooooooo nice. And your arguments with Jhesar, though they seemed a little forced made me laugh a few times. Was fun, roll up another.

Man, I had fun with you too. It was neat the interactions we
kept while being of opposite aligns, though I had hoped you would
see a lot of my behavior not in too bad of a light, considering
I was still trying to help out when I could, ie. you and that
transmuter in veran, passing you spiked-toes, etc. My argument with
Jhesar was merely because he was more or less, ordering another
cabal ranger to herb the huntress, while I was helping said ranger
find his corpse because he didn't know where in Arkham he died, so
I just called Jhesar up on it, then as Rellosyk, between Jhesar doing that and Krynna always trying to dibble in my dabble, I just couldn't let that slide. That also falls back into where we, me them.. just don't agree about outlander higher positions.

However, It was a pleasure Orau, you did very well. That Very prolonged fight where I was tanking the Captain for about a real time half hour or so, and you risking your neck to keep that healer blinded tick to tick while soaking up 2h skills from Kiamae was
phenomenal. I really enjoyed your character, even if IC I didn't
come off that way.

Wasn't an order I made, it was asking another to aid in helping against a raid which all that are able in a cabal should always do without question period. I asked several times without getting an answer as to where or what he was doing and between all that was happening at the time, never caught the fact that he had died, or was looking for his corpse. And the point would have been null had he just once announced that had happenened. Then you began to flap off for about 15 min about nothing.. annoying everybody. As you continued to do for the rest of the time you were in the cabal. I personally never had a problem with you, but you just talked too much and were A-nnoying as hell. And your idea of chaos was far from that of my understanding of the religion. Past that just water under the bridge.

I led my way, you lead yours, and I will lead mine in the future.
My particular style just didn't mesh with what was going on and
the types who are leading.

Like you say, water under the bridge my friend, my times past,
yours is now, and who can say what will be, however that's the
nice thing about outlander that it isn't hard-coded in that
aspect. I say this from my own experience of being a leader, which
you probably have a different opinion on as well. My whole thing was, during that particular moment you wanted the Huntress herbed, you weren't asking if he was able to, if he was near, you were straight up demanding him to do your command. It's one thing to say, suggest, ask of, it's another when you are straight up saying Get here Do this Now. That's not Outlander, and also where we just
will have to agree to disagree.


Water under the bridge my friend, enjoy your reign.

is that you are telling me what my actions were and are. Which as I said I wasn't demanding by no means. I believe my words were, "whatever his name is, Come herb huntress." After that no answer, no nothing. And as I said I had no idea where he was or what he was doing. So I proceeded to ask a few more times where and what he was doing as I should when leading in a raid. Where in you come in at with the flapping. So in the end you are making it out to be something completely different than intended, in your mind. And I NEVER said GET here and Do this Now... thats ####, anyways whatever dude. And you were in the cabal for what three days, so I have no idea what you mean about what was going on and the types who are leading entirely based on one incident with me. No idea what interaction you and Krynna had because I only saw you maybe a few times period. As far as meshing that is totally on you, and seemingly you were pretty much disliked by everybody. And to top that the character in question totally understood why and how I approached him and was worked out without your 2 cents. You get leadership and subjugation confused and personally you are the only one to ever have this feeling towards my character, so honestly whatever. Just stop twisting stuff. In the end doesn't really matter just funny how you are turning stuff around.
Last word on it.
PEACE

No, that night you were being pretty damn demanding, and that
incident alone is what lead me to dislike you IC. Me being
disliked IC is ok, that was an integral part of my RP, and very foundational to the persona I was creating within my characters personal characteristic.

Being disliked by cabal mates isn't going to change the fact of how
you approached that situation in particular, and that is not me
"twisting stuff around", it's you getting OOC'ly pissy because
I put you in check openly on CB, and you defended yourself, which
is totally understandable, and that's cool. I may have only had
this character caballed for a short time, but I've also been an
outlander fanatic since the cabal went in. I like to think I have a good idea of what the cabal is about, and if you're keeping up on any of my responses, you wouldn't be arguing with me over a right or wrong standpoint. It just is what it is, and that's really about it.
Bear in mind also, my mixed feelings towards you, had nothing
to do with "our" interactions, but the way you talk to others in
the cabal during pressing moments. You let your OOC frustration and
temper interfere, and it bleeds right through. I've been great at
this myself, as I am sure so many are, it's really not that big
of a deal, so chill man. No ones going to crucify you.

You should also note that just because you say "last word" doesn't mean you've won yourself a final say on anything, especially
if you're challenging facts in your post, you can only expect a genuine response. Right, wrong, or indifferent, is really mute. Rellosyk is deleted, and you're going to do what you will; there's only room for improvement, and I think you should take my perception as a learning experience for you and how others percieve you, rather than as a direct personal attack, because it's really not. I'm just saying how I saw it.

You have no idea what you are talking about regarding my character.
thx bye

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

roll up another, try again k thx.

It's funny, you talk it up, throw out your own skewed views,
make up a few things, say your having a last word, then you
keep posting, then post on several threads all of a sudden
for seemingly the impression to bury mine.

This is the OOC pissy fit that I saw in game, and what
you display on the forums. I've offered some decent advice,
you should try learning from it, rather than play these stupid
games.

So... please dude... get a life b/c trust and believe you have no affect on me at all and I could care less. OOC pissy fit, I think that you have me confused, I never had a pissy fit. As I said in game dude I saw you maybe three times and interaction with you was damn near null. So where you get all this #### from beats me... truly... What the hell are you talking about... decent advice? Dude, I'm fine with my character as is.. as I am sure the IMM's would step in if I was doing something so bad or terrible. I'm cool as far as you.... I dunno.. So take your advice and stuff it dude, I don't need it... doing just fine without you.
Pissy fit my ass... sounds like you are the one with the problem and yet again making more assumptions in which have no validity.. let it go dude... You can't fade me... K? So burn it...

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

n/t

Death posts aren't some sort of competition, you've said your
piece, a few times. Said you're done posting, but you keep
posting, and glancing over your posts, you are getting progressively
more and more childish, and now you are just spamming to be a cockhole. IC I had an impression you might be like this, thanks
for confirming it as you so blatantly and disrespectfully show.

Your points taken, your a ####, now stop spamming my thread.

That is all.. can we be friends?

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?40025

One of if not The first outlander I played, years ago, when at
a time I was a huge asshole and always drunk. Good job score keeping,
you could apply to be an x-wife.

I've tossed out plenty of solid outlanders since that time, more than I can remember off of the top of my head. So sue me for being
a newbie to the cabal and it's ideology.

Me "changing my tune" is also common knowledge, I'm not that same
person anymore, however when people like you make cheap shots like
that, really chaps my ass.

The few characters of yours whom I have interacted with since then have been unanimously abrasive though.

But, if you have actually chilled out, awesome! You've always been pretty skilled.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

Some svirf rager. I think he was axe/hand? Anyways, he ran around calling everyone 'whelp' and generally being a jagoff, during the Dolza period. Figured it was you in about three seconds. That was, admittedly, over a year ago, and I have only had two characters since then due to time contraints.

I was meaning more so in the last year, not past that, as I
said in the previous post. I've had quite a slew since then,
and that svirf rager would be classified under the similar stipulations previously explained. Sorry, I thought you actually
had genuine constructive criticism, rather than bashing me for
characters a couple years old. That's just redundant, and fairly
close-minded. Thanks anyways though.

You were a little annoying, but overall I enjoyed traveling with you as Kakarot. We had some amusing interaction. Good luck on you next character.

I won't get into long history of what and why (mostly because I have a lot of work to do right now and I am not in mood to start flame wars), but IMHO this char should never join ANY cabal with his RP line. Short and simple. I gave him enough chances to change his attitude and understand the ways of pack and Big Hunt, but he was obviously to stubborn IC (or OOC) to understand it.

The only other things I've heard from other Outlanders after renegading him from the Tree was 'Good riddance' and 'Thanks God', which kinda indicates that on one hand he was good in RPing chaotic evil, but on the other hand he was not really cabal material.

I must thank him though to understand what other questions I should ask during the interview and what look for.

That's about it.

That was an interesting experiment. Assassin in Outlanders is not something you can see every day. I was kinda intrigued.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

Eh, what's with the deletion? Just started to have some awesome interactions with you...ah well.

I got lucky on more than one occasion when you were
fighting other outlanders. You dealt with it well though
and kept your bearing, I likes. I would by lying if I
said there was no nervousness about getting into your range.
I've not versed well with assassins at all, and you seemed
to be fairly solid.

Good luck, because you might be running into me again.