Sat Mar 2 21:49:32 2002


5 o''clock PM, Day of the Great Gods, 26th of the Month of the Dragon on the Theran calendar Vazanir perished, never to return.

Jhyrb actually kept a character for over 100 hours.. a feat in itself. He isn't playing the assassins we all know and love. Last but not least, when he comes back he's gonna be pissed and try to kill us all even more than before. Let's just he doesn't roll up a lich wannabe.

Heh, just kidding, I always thought you were a mean fucking Scion. I really didn't like fighting someone that could see hidden at night. On top of that I thought it was really #####(crappy) that you couldn't be koted or kansed. Oh well, good job from what I saw, I was looking forward to getting to know you better. BTW, please forgive any mis-spellings and stuff, I just got back from the bar and am a bit......drunk.

That Whil dude.

Spare us the attempts at sarcasm. If you're just here to be an ass, take it elsewhere.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

100 final blows, 3 pk deaths 97%pk ratio.
Aggressive player
Skilled player
Yet, because he quits out once? twice? when sceptre is taken.
Maybe he had real life things to do? Seems to me that this judgment
was bias on that he was successful?

Three times. Once at 44, twice at hero. Right after the sceptre gets taken, he flies up, goes to his cabal, and logs out. That will get you removed from any cabal.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Damn the owl! A detect hidden/invis/camo air form, that can flyto people is rediculous, I think his 97% pk ratio Dictates this, as much planning as a/b/s and then spamming flyto/murder (soso) takes little, to no skill, the only way to avoid it is to go underground, or an area where you can not be a victim to 'flyto'. I have been waiting a while to post this argument, and I think the time has come, There are a couple forms that can see hidden/camo the large bat, the owl, and the fox. The first two, should be changed in my opinion, as lets face it, seeing hidden/camo as a mage is damn powerful. The fox, who can see hidden is a major utility form, not a minor air form, and hence, more deserving of such capabilities, it seems a bit too easy to get the bat/owl, as I note that almost every shifter I saw had one of the two. I mean, why bother with defensive forms or util forms that have danger sense, when you can just minor in air, and have a form that sees everyone for 12 minutes at a time? I would not necessarilly say remove them from the game, perhaps change their rarity and make them major type forms?

You have a couple of options.

1) Get humansunder and go to town.

2) Blind then run to your cabal.

3) Run to your cabal.

4) Fight it out, but only if the owl isn't wanded at all. This is probably only viable if you're a berserker.

At least that's how it seemed to me from the air form POV. The only battle assasin that ever stood his ground against the osprey was Isk (arial) wielding humansunder. Lorborguz and Manarei immediately started spamming blindness dust, which was probably the best thing they could have done.

Of course, I've heard owl gives up a fair amount of power in exchange for its night vision...so maybe #4 is more feasible vs. owl than vs. osprey.

to give you an idea how owl pans out, without the head *most of my life as penz* it would hit me every time he spammed flyto/murder penz and it would hit for mangle+ most the time demolish, if I stayed it hit twice per round for mangles, it was one nasty creature, I know he had two very very good forms, but he didnt need to even think of changing from owl to beat me while I was a scout.

Sounds like the osprey then. See the above post. Client support for speedwalking is your friend.

I have been waiting a while to
>post this argument, and I think the time has come, There are
>a couple forms that can see hidden/camo the large bat, the
>owl, and the fox. The first two, should be changed in my
>opinion, as lets face it, seeing hidden/camo as a mage is
>damn powerful.

I don't know about the owl because I've never had it, being as Lanaulyn was my first shifter. But I would like to say that the bat isn't all it's cracked up to be, for a third major form. It doesn't help you rank in any way, and you are vulnerable to weapons. If you doubt that ready Loranessa's log when she killed Drengal. Also, the bat can only see hidden during the night time. And also, when it's in the air, it cannot see anyone in it's where pk down below. That means I don't get to hunt people who are hiding by staying in the air. I am not complaining, because it saved my life a few times. But I don't know if it would be right to change it. When I got bat form, I nearly deleted, just because of how terrible it was in all aspects of combat.

The fox, who can see hidden is a major
>utility form, not a minor air form, and hence, more
>deserving of such capabilities, it seems a bit too easy to
>get the bat/owl, as I note that almost every shifter I saw
>had one of the two. I mean, why bother with defensive forms
>or util forms that have danger sense, when you can just
>minor in air, and have a form that sees everyone for 12
>minutes at a time? I would not necessarilly say remove them
>from the game, perhaps change their rarity and make them
>major type forms?

I think one of the reasons Vazanir was so strong is that he had TWO great forms together, not just one. He happened to get a good combo. Sometimes that can happen. It would be like if Viornsra had gotten an owl form. And she was also deadly enough. I played an assassin a while back named Jiijjustan. He was non-cabaled, and his pk ratio sucked, but one thing I am proud of is I never died to flyto forms... Because they are so easy to get away from if you just keep your head on straight. You can dust/dirt and they are screwed. Of course, with Vazanir, you might be dead before you could do one of those and flee... I guess what I would just suggest is to look at him like more of a 'shapeshifter lich'. Once in a while, there are going to be shapeshifters that have two good forms, and therefore are seemingly unstoppable.

Any cabal run by you, yes. It's your cabal, you put the time in, you can do whatever you want with it... but y'all can at least have the guts to stop giving people these bs reasons for booting them.

>Any cabal run by you, yes. It's your cabal, you put the
>time in, you can do whatever you want with it... but y'all
>can at least have the guts to stop giving people these bs
>reasons for booting them.

Actually, this is a valid reason for any immortal. I've booted people for the same violations. It's a bad habit to get into and bad form, we don't show any favoritism to anyone who pulls this act. If you don't like it, you are more than welcome to avoid cabals.

There is also the option of leaving Carrion Fields at your own leisure.

Why should some people have to leave when they've been here longer than you have? That's like a new -volunteer- coach coming in, and cutting half the team because they play a different style. Sure, the coach might get away with it, but I'll be damned if it isn't incredibly lame.

These thoughts only partially represent how I feel about the matter, but I felt it needed to be pointed out. I'm neither condoning or agreeing with Vazanir or the imms on this topic.

No, that's the volunteer coach cutting half the team because they've been greasing the ball or something.


The Imms are allowed to, at thier own discretion, punish players based on thier own varied, albeit similar, criteria. If you're resonable and admit what you did, they are less likely to do something drastic like a deny, and from my experiences they rarely even give severe penalties, even whiners. Irregardless of how much "work" you put into a character, most of thier punishments only affect that character, if your fun level is reduced because of something you think is bad judgement, you'll have to remember you're in no position to argue, ever, if you cheat... So unless they try the unique approach of asking you what you think they should do to you, they have the right to any level of punishment for any offense, no matter what you think is "fair". And they're pretty reasonable with that power unless you make them angrier, even then most are pretty slow to all-out rage.


How you can call that a "play-style" is beyond me, sir. No offense.

This isn't a clash of egoes. It's a clash of what we immortals are responsible for enforcing vs individuals who believe they are not subject to these rules and criteria. Cheating is cheating. We are given the positions of authority by immortals who created this mud and have managed the mud for the enjoyment of other players. We are spending OUR time coding, writing, developing, designing and enforcing things that are for the betterment of this mud. That authority is not delegated to individuals who would abuse this power.

We then have to deal with individuals who spend all of 10 minutes creating characters to cheat and violate the rules in order to gain an unfair advantage over other individuals who are willing to abide by these rules.

We DO NOT create the rules to oppress you. We DO NOT create the rules to gain any unfair advantage over you. We create the rules so that individuals who play this game will have a level playing field with those individuals who feel compelled to cheat.

There are two types of people who play this mud:

1) Those individuals who want to contribute to the mud.

2) Those individuals who want to be a detriment to this mud.

Those who feel like being a detriment to the mud (regardless of how long they have been here) are not being forced to play here. Nor are they welcome here.

* It's poor form to quit out just after your cabal item has been taken. It's even worse form to do it over and over again. As you can probably imagine, there is no 'style' involved in these actions. It's a simple way to avoid your enemies because you are lacking your cabal powers.

First note - this isn't about cheating. Never was. Don't bring cheating into this.

But the fact remains that Vazanir did not break any rules, thus he shouldn't have been punished. Three times he quit out after a cabal raid. Good, maybe it prevented him from doing something drastic.

Maybe he was tired of being the only Scion on that ever does anything except complain about forms. Maybe going up against a hoarde isn't fun. Maybe he needed a smoke break before he got in there and kicked some tail. Maybe he was on too late and his wife started yelling, and losing the sceptre only tipped the scale. Why does it matter that he logged out to begin with? Defining it to be in poor form is pretty lame.

Your two types of people who play this game are wrong.

1- There are those who mud to pk, usually to vent frustration in a stable way or to simply have fun (sometimes at others' expense, most of the time not).

2- Escapism. Usually the roleplayers who enjoy creating something and living through it.

CF wouldn't still be going if it lost either. And don't give some shallow cop out excuse that people who pk are only a detriment to the mud. Gareth, Zorszaul, Voss, Rendak, Challen, Istendil, Bemused, Neosoft, countless diku characters, Johan, even your beloved Jhyrbian, and many more focused primarily on the pk aspect. It's what makes this game work so well and not just another posmud or mush.

While it may be fun to you, I have better things to do.

>First note - this isn't about cheating. Never was. Don't
>bring cheating into this.

You are welcome to justify your own perspective, however:

>But the fact remains that Vazanir did not break any rules,
>thus he shouldn't have been punished. Three times he quit
>out after a cabal raid. Good, maybe it prevented him from
>doing something drastic.

Role-playing is mandatory.

Far as I'm concerned, this is a clear cut breach of this rule. Vazanir did not do this once, he did it THREE times. I don't see how you can even attempt to justify this as a 'style'.

>Maybe he was tired of being the only Scion on that ever does
>anything except complain about forms. Maybe going up against
>a hoarde isn't fun. Maybe he needed a smoke break before he
>got in there and kicked some tail. Maybe he was on too late
>and his wife started yelling, and losing the sceptre only
>tipped the scale. Why does it matter that he logged out to
>begin with? Defining it to be in poor form is pretty lame.

It's funny that 'maybe' he chose to do this THREE TIMES immediately after the sceptre was taken. Coincidence?

>Your two types of people who play this game are wrong.
>
>1- There are those who mud to pk, usually to vent
>frustration in a stable way or to simply have fun (sometimes
>at others' expense, most of the time not).
>
>2- Escapism. Usually the roleplayers who enjoy creating
>something and living through it.

This does not excuse them from having to follow the rules. This does not excuse them from having to role-play. Those individuals who do follow the rules are contributing to the mud, regardless of how you would like to define it.

>CF wouldn't still be going if it lost either. And don't give
>some shallow cop out excuse that people who pk are only a
>detriment to the mud. Gareth, Zorszaul, Voss, Rendak,
>Challen, Istendil, Bemused, Neosoft, countless diku
>characters, Johan, even your beloved Jhyrbian, and many more
>focused primarily on the pk aspect. It's what makes this
>game work so well and not just another posmud or mush.

This isn't about pking, it's about people who bend/break the rules to benefit their characters.

Sorry buddy but if you consider it a cop out excuse then that is your loss. You spend your afternoons dealing with people who cheat then curse you out for enforcing the rules and tell me it makes you feel good about the time and energy invested in this mud.

* It's funny that 'maybe' he chose to do this THREE TIMES immediately after the sceptre was taken. Coincidence?

Judging a player by seeing 3 seconds of 250 hours really boggles my mind. I'm sure we could all go on and on about other people who did this sort of thing and not only did they log off every time they lost their item they made it blatantly obvious. Some of those people are still around, others gone now. If you want to start getting your panties in a bunch about this at least have some sort of standard set from which you can take action. Maybe talk to the person, warn them, blah blah. Who the hell cares if my level 18 character is about to quit and someone takes the sceptre, are you going to hold that over my head when i hero?



* This isn't about pking, it's about people who bend/break the rules to benefit their characters.

Sort of like your whole Thror/Maedhras connection when you played a mortal? Sitting on mirc, saying "hey man i'm maedhras too! kewl huh??"
Then i see Maedhras log off and Thror log in.. uh huh.
Yea thror, your ##### doesn't stink.

*Sorry buddy but if you consider it a cop out excuse then that is your loss. You spend your afternoons dealing with people who cheat then curse you out for enforcing the rules and tell me it makes you feel good about the time and energy invested in this mud.


It is a cop out excuse because you can basically decide at any point in time to ##### over anyone by using completely circumstancial evidence. As much as you might like to believe, you are not immortal. You do not know what is going on at the other end of a players screen.
When you decide to take action against something that is completely unfounded for of course we will be a bit pissed off.


Yours truly.
Jhyrb.

Judging a player by seeing 3 seconds of 250 hours really boggles my mind. I'm sure we could all go on and on about other people who did this sort of thing and not only did they log off every time they lost their item they made it blatantly obvious. Some of those people are still around, others gone now. If you want to start getting your panties in a bunch about this at least have some sort of standard set from which you can take action. Maybe talk to the person, warn them, blah blah. Who the hell cares if my level 18 character is about to quit and someone takes the sceptre, are you going to hold that over my head when i hero?

How do you know how often I observed Vazanir? I boot a lot of people for exactly this offense, not just Vazanir. There was a definite pattern. Vazanir was a frontrunner, and I'm not sad to see him gone.

Given how many times you've cheated on CF, you'll excuse me if I give you zero credibility that Vazanir was a shining example, except for every time I observed him. Trust is earned, and I have zero reason to trust you.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

The fact that scion had this kind of member is largely why I deleted this character.

It was talked about on the cabal channel all the time that you quit whenever we were raided, or logged on, checked pit, quit again. We did care, just nothing was ever done about it.

I'm told Jererraric's player is skillful, but there is no skill in avoiding the tough times by using quit whenever things turn against you. I would say that you are avoiding consequences by using quit, and that the rule is quite clear.

Out of curiosity, how would it be handled if, in a character's role, his stated goal for joining scion was to mooch their benefits and give as little as possible in return? Sounds like believable RP for an evil character.

Obviously the archmage, scion imms and scion members would be outraged if this player's true motives were to be exposed. Should imm-tervention be required to expose these motives, though, or should it be left to the scion mortals?

I can understand both sides of this discussion, however I see both sides making many assumptions and mistakes. Vaulg , if I told you water was wet and the sky was blue, but prior I had ripped you off or cheated in a game of cards. Would that make what I told you any more ture or false ? hehehe really man for a immortal to ignore anyones comment is poor in my view. I would agree with jhyr about the fact that 3 instances in 250 hours is ##### all.

People are human, they make mistakes, 3 mistakes in 250 hours is a pretty impressive ratio, hell id be impressed with 25 mistakes in 100 hours. People make mistakes, they normally try and learn from them.
-problem is often immortals dont give the learning aspect to players.
- the wizi invis approach is often as useless as just telling them nothing.
(example: I had a paladin who unempowered me, they stayed wizi. They sent not tells nothinig. I had to make the assumption that it was my god at the time (boltthrower) I was totaly baffled because In my rp I had done nothing wrong. When BT returned he was really pissed off that another immortal had interfeared with one of his followers)

The above example is prime, what is wrong with immortals being vis when they deal out punishment ? Trans a person to the realm of the dead and incog. Tell them off bluntly and directly ooc. Tell them "Hey we have noticed that you have been logging out as soon as your cabal item has been taken, Why?" Now obviously the person could ##### and say ohh, ummm call waiting or something. Sure it might be true but even so you have told him that you have seen something that you dislike. However if he said my baby was crying in his crib again, would you find that a justifiable. He might have logged out about 150 times in 250 hours of gameplay. Is 3 circumstances in 150 really that bad ?

Side reason that has me buffled: Out of all the cabals on cf, the only cabal which I think has a viable reason to quit out after you lose the cabal item is battle. All the other cabals provide no negative aspect to losing the cabal item. They can still use their character and all magical items, their whole rp and survival isnt based on their cabal powers to fill the massive void. Do the immortals see this. Quitting out after scion loses it item I dont think is anything bad. Quitting out whilst they raid for the item, hehe that is bad.

Players often neglect how often immortals are on... again this is because imms have the wizi invis disease, Immortals often sit for hours at a time snooping players. In all my years on cf, I have only encountered a single immortal who acted for benifit for the game. Twist snooped a entropy invoker I had a long time ago, he would often punish me here and there for mistakes that I made. When I say punish he would smite , tell me off or remove a perm spell slot from his tattoo. The problem was that back in those days I was stubborn I had little patience for them "they only interfeared in my game".

Times have changed and now more than ever it now takes a bare min of 75-100 hours to have a character where before you could do it in 25-40 hours. Imms are killing ants with neuclear weapons instead of just burning them with a magnifined glass. Problem is, they are also doing similar actions to players. Try not to go to extremes, you could give a title to a player, but not kick him from the cabal. Give him something that will brand him, tell him that he can have the brand removed if he improves.

Hastur the wimp, running from his obligations.

If I saw a player with that who was in my cabal It would make me laugh as well as make me A) want to ask him what he was titled for B) rp with him based on such a title. he would be "disgraced" in my characters view. He would have to earn it back... Ever thought of being a bit more creative, or are you still a nuke bomb wielder and prefer to just outright kill players ?


Side note: Do you immortals actually know wtf it is like to continue on and play after you have been removed from a cabal ? Do you have any clue as to how much harder it gets to actually survive? I've had two chars that have been re-empowered after losing empowerment. I've had five chars that have got back into cabals after being removed, not outcast. I get back in and I was a) treated like ##### from the imms, the players and in general was worse off than I was before.

The reason why many players delete after being outcast from a cabal is often because immortals take ten times as long to reinduct that it takes for a player to level up a new character and get it into a cabal. I could probably get a rager in under a week, maybee two at most and that is one of the more difficult cabals to gain entrance into. Others take less time, yet to get back into a cabal the imms ##### you around for well over two weeks or more. If anything I think you should reward heavily someone who achieves this.


So to cut it short, the imms are right as to why, but they go about it the wrong way. Players are right for some of their reasons, but wrong in how they go about it. Do these intertwine at all? No. Immortals need to think alot more about their actions on players. Players need to be a bit more tolerant of the Immortals.

But hell what would I know I've earned no imms trust hehe. (j/k)

- It's not 3 mistakes in 250 hours. There was a pattern.
- I'm not about to explain my exact criteria for booting someone, because it would be an instruction manual to just slack enough to stay in.
- People get warnings for lesser problems. Vazanir didn't deserve one.
- I didn't "nuke bomb" Vazanir. I removed him from a cabal and gave him a title. He was just the same as any other non-caballed hero. I didn't exclude him from re-induction either.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>* It's funny that 'maybe' he chose to do this THREE TIMES
>immediately after the sceptre was taken. Coincidence?
>
>Judging a player by seeing 3 seconds of 250 hours really
>boggles my mind. I'm sure we could all go on and on about
>other people who did this sort of thing and not only did
>they log off every time they lost their item they made it
>blatantly obvious. Some of those people are still around,
>others gone now. If you want to start getting your panties
>in a bunch about this at least have some sort of standard
>set from which you can take action. Maybe talk to the
>person, warn them, blah blah. Who the hell cares if my level
>18 character is about to quit and someone takes the sceptre,
>are you going to hold that over my head when i hero?

We hold the individuals who do this accountable for their actions, regardless of rank. However, we can't deal with every mortal player or watch the actions of every mortal due to:

A: other projects.

B: baby-sitting 30 year old men who are dying for attention.

>* This isn't about pking, it's about people who bend/break
>the rules to benefit their characters.
>
>Sort of like your whole Thror/Maedhras connection when you
>played a mortal? Sitting on mirc, saying "hey man i'm
>maedhras too! kewl huh??"
>Then i see Maedhras log off and Thror log in.. uh huh.
>Yea thror, your ##### doesn't stink.

You're right. I'm probably not the first or the last immortal that realized the breeding pit of cheating that mirc is. The difference is, I've managed to learn from my mistakes and leave. You however, continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. Yeah my ##### may stink but I've managed to wipe my ass. You're still groveling in your own #####.

>*Sorry buddy but if you consider it a cop out excuse then
>that is your loss. You spend your afternoons dealing with
>people who cheat then curse you out for enforcing the rules
>and tell me it makes you feel good about the time and energy
>invested in this mud.
>
>
>It is a cop out excuse because you can basically decide at
>any point in time to ##### over anyone by using completely
>circumstancial evidence. As much as you might like to
>believe, you are not immortal. You do not know what is going
>on at the other end of a players screen.
>When you decide to take action against something that is
>completely unfounded for of course we will be a bit pissed
>off.

No but I can make some pretty good observations given the right amount of time. These rules have been standing for awhile now. They are pretty clear cut and obvious. You just happen to be one of the few individuals ignoring them. Thanks for your input Jhyrbian but you should get off the computer and go eat. Mom is probably calling you up from your basement.


>Yours truly.
>Jhyrb.

Thanks for your input Jhyrbian but you should get off the computer and go eat. Mom is probably calling you up from your basement.

Quitting out does note equate to cheating.

Quitting != cheating

Ok?

help rules

Level(0) RULES
These are the rules of the Carrion Fields. Disobeying is grounds for deletion. For other matters, use common sense.

* Remember that roleplaying is required. This means several things.
- Dropping link to avoid a PK or immediately quitting after you loot a corpse or PK someone is EXTREMELY bad roleplaying and will be punished accordingly. In fact, quitting or dropping link to avoid consequences of any kind is a mark of bad roleplaying.


Don't complain when you get caught.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I read that rule differently.

Quitting after a loot, after ganging someone and taunting someone ooc'ly, quitting after multicharring, quitting after pit looting, quitting when someone gets in your range to pk you or in a raid...those fall under that rule as I see it. Quitting after a raid, mind you, after the threat was gone, was fine.

Here's what I'll propose. Clarify the rules and I doubt this will happen again.

First note - this isn't about cheating. Never was. Don't bring cheating into this.

From "help rules": In fact, quitting or dropping link to avoid consequences of any kind is a mark of bad roleplaying.

All things considered, his punishment was fairly light.

But the fact remains that Vazanir did not break any rules, thus he shouldn't have been punished. Three times he quit out after a cabal raid. Good, maybe it prevented him from doing something drastic.

Wrong. See above. Are you that blind in your defense of your IRC clique?

Maybe he was tired of being the only Scion on that ever does anything except complain about forms.

Scion has routinely had 10-15 people on at once this week. How is he the only one ever on? Are you that blind in your defense of your IRC clique?

Maybe going up against a hoarde isn't fun.

I can dig up any number of threads where you and your friends complain that people only play the "winning" team. Why is it OK when you do it, but not them?

Maybe he needed a smoke break before he got in there and kicked some tail. Maybe he was on too late and his wife started yelling, and losing the sceptre only tipped the scale. Why does it matter that he logged out to begin with? Defining it to be in poor form is pretty lame.

A definite pattern existed where he logged out when he didn't have his cabal powers. Thus, the Archmage removed him from the cabal. This is an appropriate punishment from both an IC and an OOC perspective.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

A definite pattern existed where he logged out when he didn't have his cabal powers. Thus, the Archmage removed him from the cabal. This is an appropriate punishment from both an IC and an OOC perspective.


Yea, three instances is just a deadlock pattern, and no the archmage didn't. You did. Even then, you removed him for being a coward. Since when is scion about courage? At least have some substance for your reasons Valg. Karnavex bitches at someone for rushing in when you should lay back, and you bitch at them for being cowards. You really cultivate a fantastic environment in which the average player can really have fun.

Thank you.

Yours truly. Jhyrb.

I remember the situation well that you are speaking about and
can't figure out how anyone could take what I said as bitching.
I like interacting with the playerbase and the conversation I
had with that someone seemed to go well as we talked tactics on
fighting groups. I try hard not to form opinions on players except
from what I see in-game but when what I felt was good interaction
turns up on the forums as me "bitching" it starts to irk me. To
add a bit more insult to this is the fact I like the someone you
speak of as a char and started the conversation to see how the
fight went down and develop a better way to handle those kind of
situations. I don't know you Jhy and have no desire to form a
dislike for you but comments like this will make me think twice
before interacting with players.

Karnavex.

>This isn't a clash of egoes. It's a clash of what we
>immortals are responsible for enforcing vs individuals who
>believe they are not subject to these rules and criteria.
>Cheating is cheating. We are given the positions of
>authority by immortals who created this mud and have managed
>the mud for the enjoyment of other players. We are spending
>OUR time coding, writing, developing, designing and
>enforcing things that are for the betterment of this mud.
>That authority is not delegated to individuals who would
>abuse this power.

The criteria seems to me to be that immortals are generally chosen for their ability to contribute to the mud AND handle these sort of situations in a mature, responsible fashion. Are they perfect? No, something you seem to consistantly fail to mention. They are just the people deemed best for the position (out of those who request it). They're given a lot of power over the players, so excuse us if we ocassionally speak out cause we feel the imps may have made some poor decisions.

>
>We then have to deal with individuals who spend all of 10
>minutes creating characters to cheat and violate the rules
>in order to gain an unfair advantage over other individuals
>who are willing to abide by these rules.
>
>We DO NOT create the rules to oppress you. We DO NOT create
>the rules to gain any unfair advantage over you. We create
>the rules so that individuals who play this game will have a
>level playing field with those individuals who feel
>compelled to cheat.
>
>There are two types of people who play this mud:
>
>1) Those individuals who want to contribute to the mud.
>
>2) Those individuals who want to be a detriment to this mud.

This oversimplification of the playerbase is absolutely mind boggling. We can only pray that when it comes time for judgement, you aren't the one on the other side.

>
>Those who feel like being a detriment to the mud (regardless
>of how long they have been here) are not being forced to
>play here. Nor are they welcome here.

See above comment.

1) What is bs about the reason I gave?

2) Could Vazanir come back to Scion if he played it out? Possibly. After immediately throwing an OOC temper tantrum over pray when uninducted? Probably not.

3) Vazanir received no IC penalty other than removal from the cabal, and the title. Deletion was his own decision.

I've got no regrets over his removal.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>1) What is bs about the reason I gave?

The actual reason was a valid complaint... I should have clarified this point in my original post. I was referring to the fact that I don't think you judge all Scions by the same set of standards. I think if you personally dislike somebody's playing style or lack of visible rp you will be a lot more willing to remove them. Just an opinion, but it's shared by many.

>
>2) Could Vazanir come back to Scion if he played it out?
>Possibly.

No, most cf'rs wont come crawling back to you. One's rl sense of dignity tends to transcend rp.

>After immediately throwing an OOC temper tantrum
>over pray when uninducted? Probably not.

That's between you and him, but as to the OOC nature of how he took the uninduction I refer you to my first comment.

>3) Vazanir received no IC penalty other than removal from
>the cabal, and the title.

Are those titles really necessary? I don't want to be one of those people running around screaming "Imm powertrip! Imm powertrip!"... but quite frankly I don't think you have to document your opinion of him for the rest of the mud to permanently see, especially one so negative and demeaning. You two had a disagreement, you don't want him in your cabal, fine... leave it at that.


>I've got no regrets over his removal.

And you shouldn't, for once we can agree.

She screwed up, got a screwy title... now she's an IMM.

*starts carving the cheese to go with everyone's whine*

I didn't even bother with protections and there was little danger in fighting with this combo.

Most air-offense shifters are going to be aggressive, but they don't need much skill. They can pick on the classes they find easy to kill and avoid fighting those they don't.

Like me, Vazanir did not really need to contend with many enemies in the sky, that I am aware of. That makes a considerable difference to your pk options.