Sun Jul 24 16:20:37 2005

At 10 o'clock PM, Day of the Great Gods, 5th of the Month of the Heat
on the Theran calendar Dalbiddle perished, never to return.

Hey man.
Thanks for the quick mention of me, makes me feel rather good to be put in the friends category.

Just want to say something quickly, I have played under a few Harbringers in my time and I would have to put you in my top two!

Anyhow great, great job playing Daldibble, I will like to see who your next char turns out to be, best of luck with it all.

Picateol

I finally did everything with an outlander character that I wanted to do. I got tattooed, got Harbinger, and got to have a lot of fun. There were two main reasons for deleting, one initially more powerful than the other. First reason was that I like playing the underdog, and when I deleted we definately weren't the underdogs. It may become that way more again soon, but who knows. The second and most frustrating reason was air forms. First, I've never heard of birds getting tired and dropping from the skies because they just couldn't "flap" anymore. No...they use air currents and glide their arses back down to the ground. Now, if a shifter had negative movement, then I can understand. IMO, you should always be able to fly down and believe me, there were times where if I had, I'd have probably died to PK instead of a stupid fall from the air. That being said, it seemed that 80% of the time when this death occurred to me, the world would reset itself typically before I could get to my corpse. And poof! NO MORE EQ, NO MORE CORPSE. Now, if some enemies had gotten my things, ok, I could always hunt them down. However, when you have things that require three people to help you get, this gets a little frustrating. I don't try to whine often about things on CF, but this air form situation ticks me off.

Well, with the gripe over, lets begin the goodbyes:

Lyristeon: No doubt you would first. You let me play a bloodthirsty gnome that didn't care much about what people thought of him. Believe it or not, this was my role and I always went after anyone who went after me. Maran's tended to like to jump in on my very even fights, and so, they got hunted quite often. You let me do this and rewarded me at times for it, thanks. The only thing more i could have wanted with this character was a special form, but I'm not a long term stick around type player, so I doubt it would have happened. I just get bored to quick. Especialy when most people won't fight you evenly.

Innis: You never did give me my leader ring! Jerk! Just kidding, I loved our little harbinger interview and you getting me drunk was funny. Thanks for being a good Imm for Outlander.

Aarn: I wondered where that would take me when I started yelling at your Druid. I almost killed her a few times when she got in range, but she had a knack for staying close to the Fortress or getting Qulenit and Dorn to help her. Oh well, I wish you wouldn't have been so mean right off, but I guess tahts just your dwarven role. I wanted to play that whole thing out more, but I was going to to risk a "slay" or anything.

Enemies:
Yagharek: My only kill ever with all my outlanders where the deadfall got you! Woo hoo. We did have some great fights though, and If I wasn't fully prepped you tooled me. You are a fierce fighter.

Aurilinius: Dalbiddle felt so much rage toward you it wasn't funny. You had asked him for forgiveness and you are the only person he ever granted it to, and then you up and join empire. Talk about backstabs...well, I got my last name for that kill on you at the tree. You are a good bard and war master imo, so keep it up.

Dulmisa: Yeah we had some good ones, and I could never seal the deal with you. Its hard to finish a fight sometimes as a shifter, if the person you fight has above average talent. Great job you sneaky bastard.

Dazan: I think I only finished you once and you got me twice I think with disembowel, man was I ticked at that. I always tried to just pick up and keep moving if it happened, and I think I did a good job with it. I'm mad I deleted now that you got Provost, cause I think you would have been even more gutsy in the wilds, but oh well.

Others, feel free to write your thoughts, and I'll write back.

Friends:
Not many true friends other than Outlanders. We had some great tmies.

Qing: Love you, and I alreadyh said that. You are a strong leader.

Kazren: We grew up together, always liked you, though sometimes I think you are slow to jump into fights.

Arminas: Always up for a challenge, my kind of player.

Dez: Learner, thats all I can say, you took soem bad beatings, but you kept going. I'm assuming this is one of your first healers, if not first characters

Skryth: Always heard good things abotu you, keep it up.

Salvrath: Took me forever to find you, you were a beast who disappeared, which I didn't want to be.

Picateol: Loved you man

Thilz: Flower Kisser! You called me bloody from the start, I always wanted that in my title, but never got it. I should hae written it into my role!

Msaylu: Your going to go far, I can tell, its hard being a mage in outlander at times, hard to find groups. Keep it up. and, I understand all that practice as a voker. Hard stuff.

I'm having trouble with the rest, write and I'll write back.

Anyway, I'm out again
Minyar aka Dalbi

You did a good job as the Harbinger from the fighting side. Maybe a bit more was needed from the balance side. Then again, my religion has very little to do with balance so that may have had something to do with it. You would fight against terrible odds and you did very well keeping them staring at the skies. When the odds were fair, you would just kill them. Special forms are out there to be had, but yeah, you would have needed to be around for a long time to be considered. When Aesrira got hers, she not only had been around a long time but also did an exceptional job with the balance and fighting side. Not saying that you couldn't do it, it just wasn't your style. Your style pleased me though, because I don't give out my tattoo to everyone who follows me by far. And, I must say, that using my tattoo as a shifter works extremely well. Good luck with the next.

I felt really bad for you. It seemed like you had the worst luck when you would die in the air. I don't know about the floating down thing, because that just may lead to an unfair advantage and mess with game balance a bit. The deaths weren't the worst part for sure, the game almost always seem to crash when you would die like that. I think I witnessed it happening to you 2-3 times myself.

I know the situations you are talking about, but I will answer that when my time comes. Anyway, things always picked up when you were around and very rarely were they dull. Good luck with your next.

Hey man one of my few friends can't be deleting. I liked your flavor of tree hider, now you've gone off and left me with that murderous druid. I really dug seeing someone do well with a form that dosen't get much love. I thought Dal was well roleplayed and trust me that I'll miss having you around. See you in the fields bro.

and thanks for including me in the plan to kill of Raheena. THough, I wasn't any contributer, I was poised to start contributing if it didn't work out as all of you were planning. Great job with that.

You were really Dalbiddle's only friend outside of Outlander, and only because we traveled together so much when young. Most Scions Dalbiddle had aquantance with, but not much love for.

Dalb

Can't say I'm sad to see you go -- alone, we could fight it out for hours without anyone actually landing a kill. Once someone else showed up, though (and it was usually someone on your side), the tides turned drastically and hideously, and I was usually forced to camp out. For the most part, much respect to you.
A couple of my proudest kills were of you, along with a couple of the closest damned fights I've had with this character. I don't remember the time you actually got me though, that's not to say it didn't happen.

Anyway, best with your next... (ever played a Trib?)

-d

We had a friendship going for about oh, two seconds? I
even think that Imm PBF about attacking the Nightwalker
called by the Scion was from me. Good job. Shame that
most of the time we fought I was in the crapper, woulda
been nice to have had at you in better days, but from
the sounds of it and what I saw it wouldn't have been
easy in no sense of the word. Also like it was said your
tattoo powers were very annoying and effective. Perfect
fit for a shapeshifter - guess it's the balancer for not
being able to use progged gear =).

Luck with the next,
- Runaktla

I finally did everything with an outlander character that I
wanted to do. I got tattooed, got Harbinger, and got to have
a lot of fun.

We already know that all you want with every your character is LEADERSHIP

Good luck with you next... leader.

Aarn: I wondered where that would take me when I started yelling at your Druid. I almost killed her a few times when she got in range, but she had a knack for staying close to the Fortress or getting Qulenit and Dorn to help her. Oh well, I wish you wouldn't have been so mean right off, but I guess tahts just your dwarven role. I wanted to play that whole thing out more, but I was going to to risk a "slay" or anything.

Sorry, gotta remember you're facing the god of rage, who also happens to be a racist dwarf. Talking smack to him - about his kin no less - isn't healthy. I don't think most people who have tried to get confrontational with gods have come out of it unscathed anyway. If you had actually wanted to have a discussion, you would have needed to approach it a lot differently. You are a wise gnome after all.

Aarn

>Sorry, gotta remember you're facing the god of rage, who also happens to be a racist dwarf.

I'm trying to pinpoint the exact time 'evil' traits became cool for good characters. It was before Aarn's time, but I'm not exactly sure when. At least a couple years ago.

Personally, I'm a hopeless anti-black, white-supremecist bigot who yells at everyone and am extremely bad-tempered in general, but that's cool because black people commit 80% of the violent crimes in America, making me a 'good' guy.

Karithia comes to mind. The type of person who could get pissy and slay you as an imm but was somehow good aligned.

The first thing I'll say is that your trying to apply real life morality to CF morality. Racism in CF is completely different than racism on earth. You are comparing midevil fantasy races (who are actually different species) continuing a war that has spanned eons to the mfing KKK. A more accurate example would be a pack of lions fighting some rhinos over a water hole, or something.

Furthermore, rage is not an inherantly evil characteristic - even in RL morality. American morality is based strongly off of Christianity, and the Bible very specifically says that anger (KJV says wrath) is not a sin. The Bible says that in your anger, you should not sin. In otherwords don't get pissed off and sin just because your pissed. This is also the gist of Aarn's religion, if you've read the help file. Its about controlling your rage, focusing it, and using it to a particular end. That "end" could very easily be one of goodness.

So I don't know how you can take a CF Aarn, and say that he has "evil characteristics" but is still good.

>The first thing I'll say is that your trying to apply real life morality to CF morality.

With a very cartoonish example, yes I was. However, just because CF does not equal reality doesn't mean that there isn't a strong correlation between the two. In this case, racism that exists in both worlds. Aarn & yourself would argue that racism is not inherently evil, and that I'm applying morals to something that is so different than our known reality that by definition they CANNOT be applicable. I disagree. In no circumstance can I see racism as a GOOD thing, in CF or in reality. You can feel free to convince me that Aarn's racism isn't inherently evil, and isn't a 'bad' trait.

>American morality is based strongly off of Christianity, and the Bible very specifically says that anger (KJV says wrath) is not a sin.

Does anger = rage? No. Rage is violent or explosive anger. In other words, losing control and/or blindly lashing out because your emotions are uncontrollable. Again, is this something you equate with 'goodness' in CF or reality? You can refer to the helpfile and argue that this sphere, dominated by Chaos and Shadow, really has no intrinsic moral swing. Again, I would disagree with you.

>So I don't know how you can take a CF Aarn, and say that he has "evil characteristics" but is still good.

Me neither. You realize I could play a surly, grumpy, rageful, racist character that cursed everyone out, slew exclusively evils, and still be evil, right? There's no code of conduct that says evils have to kill goods. So tell me, what is the different between this hypothetical evil-killing evil character, and a 'good' character that has all of the same traits & qualities?

This is not specifically about Aarn. I don't really know anything about his character aside from what is in this thread and the helpfile. This is about these characteristics in general.

>You can feel free to convince me
>that Aarn's racism isn't inherently evil, and isn't a 'bad'
>trait.

It's not an inherently bad trait in CF. I'd say it's more of a neutral one, capable of existing in good or evil characters depending on how it's played.

The animals analogy is an apt one. In the real world it wouldn't be a good trait to not give a human a job in your office because of the color of their skin, but on the other hand it would be perfectly sensible to not give a bengal tiger the same job. Doing so wouldn't be a morally good act, per se, just the only sane one.

A CF dark elf should be more likely to kill you or screw you than the bengal tiger, and if they're not, I'd say that's more likely to be an RP failing on the dark elf player's part than an indication of the inappropriateness or evilness of IC racism in the game.

You're trying way too hard to mix the real world in with CF world. They just aren't the same. Racism abounds in Thera... fire giant vs storm giant, dwarf vs duergar, elf vs dark-elf to name a few, because they're VERY clearly different races, with no biological connection. In the real world, racism is hating someone because of the color of their skin, or the way they speak or the place they come from or their religion, despite the fact that underneath it all they're the same as you. It seems to me that racism in CF is more akin to a human hating spiders, then the KKK hating blacks and jews (although it's not exactly the same as either).

That being said, perhaps "racist" was too broad of a word to use. Aarn is a dwarf, and he thinks dwarves are the best thing around. Aarn has had very good dealings with lots of races over time... infact of the four tattoos I've given out, only one has been to a dwarf. In this situation I don't remember exactly what was said, but Dalbiddle was very specifically saying bad things about dwarves, and he persisted after I warned him. CF is a way more violent world then the one we live in. An appropriate answer was to smack him.

Also in the real world, it's considered "evil" to kill people. In CF, killing people is a fact of life. Most Therans are soldiers of some sort, and Aarn is a leader of a group dedicated solely to fighting. How do you suppose your average soldier from ANY country would react if someone came up to them and started bad-mouthing his people?

Ofcourse racism is a horrible thing in the real world. But in CF, it's a completely different thing. Is it a bad thing in CF? I think you could make a character that believed either way. Also I should point out that Aarn himself makes no effort at all to be some pardigm of virtue. He's a soldier in the war against evil. And he's a dwarf. It shouldn't be too surprising if he has a few traits that might be considered less then desireable. When was the last time you read ANY book with a dwarf in it that was super friendly and agreeable?

Aarn

When was the last time you read ANY book with a dwarf in it that was super friendly and agreeable?

Ok, this is my last post here, as this is a death thread.

>It seems to me that racism in CF is more akin to a human hating spiders

No, because spiders aren't sentient. Other races in CF are sentient, and are akin to 'dumb' humans, 'black' humans, 'short' humans, etc etc. In essence, you are hating them because of phenotypical traits that you mark as different between yours, which you view as superior; that is, you are a racist/supremacist/bigot/etc. It's not the same as having arachnophobia. It's not the same as Nepenthe's example of employing a bengal tiger vs. a drow work for you.

>How do you suppose your average soldier from ANY country would react if someone came up to them and started bad-mouthing his people?

Nothing in my post is fueled by specific incidents. I don't have any knowledge of these things. I'm speaking generally from what you have claimed true about Aarn in the original post.

>Also I should point out that Aarn himself makes no effort at all to be some pardigm of virtue

Yes, but Immortals are *supposed* to be paradigms of *something*. You empower under spheres, you are the Maran leader, you should be paradigms for both these things. I'm not saying you aren't, I'm just responding to your claim of not making an effort to be a paradigm.

>When was the last time you read ANY book with a dwarf in it that was super friendly and agreeable?

Again, I'm not saying Aarn should be super friendly and agreeable. I'm saying that racism--or speciesism--, rage, cursing, foul-temper, whatever, is not something I associate with goodness.

I will leave this argument with once again bringing up my two hypothetical characers:

Good Character A: Foul-mouthed, racist, rage-filled, vengeful, only kills evils (for whatever reason).

Evil Character B: Foul-mouthed, racist, rage-filled, vengeful, only kills evils (for whatever reason).

What's the difference? If you, like Warborf, say intent: *Intent* has been established in multiple threads & posts by the Immortal staff to be largely immaterial (ie, I play a doctor who 'intends' to help everyone he meets, but ends up brutally dismembering them during operations--this is an evil character).

Even when, to most, it seems illogical. And even when the creators of the thing your disagreeing with say your wrong. Have your opinion, but know that it contradicts the opinions of most everyone on CF.

Oddly enough, Nepenthe and Aarn didn't create CF. Granted, Nep's been around forever.

You also don't compose 'almost everyone'.

>No, because spiders aren't sentient. Other races in CF are
>sentient, and are akin to 'dumb' humans, 'black' humans,
>'short' humans, etc etc.

Right, see what I'm saying is they're not supposed to be, especially for the aligned races. There are supposed to be, for example, inherently evil things about a dark elf that are no less a matter of easy choice for a dark elf or something you can reason your way around than you can reason your way around a tiger wanting to eat you. If that's not the case, then RP is failing.

For a dark elf to not be evil should generally be roughly as difficult or lasting as a human choosing to not breathe.

nt

It's a tangent. Enbuergo was saying racism even in CF is an inherently evil trait and I'm making a case for why that's not the case.

The Dalbiddle argument is a little bit of a different issue and would be: The Dalai Lama might be too pure or what have you to kill mosquitos, but Aarn isn't, and that's effectively what mortals are to him.

Granted, I'm not Aarn, but I don't think giving a warning smack to a neutral who's getting in your face as a good god is inappropriate. I also don't think visiting 500 hours of plague would be inappropriate, but the former is much more fun to deal with as a player.

Granted, Aarn vs Dalbiddle IMHO he should've been more goodly, truth be told the 'He's an Imm so its ok' argument, I'm not going to get any progress once that one comes out.

Still, the greater question is why its a good 'hook' to be an asshole goodie? I'd think it'd be a fine line to walk, but its growing more exceedingly common-place. I'm curious why it'd be encouraged instead of discouraged like I'd think it should be. There's a fine line between grumpy and an ass and I think some people (like Karithia) took it too far to the point where I can't tell the difference between them and neutrals.

http://www.utilitarian.org/texts/alm.html

CS

*opinions are like assholes, everyone has one*

Aarn & yourself would
>argue that racism is not inherently evil, and that I'm
>applying morals to something that is so different than our
>known reality that by definition they CANNOT be applicable. I
>disagree. In no circumstance can I see racism as a GOOD
>thing, in CF or in reality. You can feel free to convince me
>that Aarn's racism isn't inherently evil, and isn't a 'bad'
>trait.

I'm trying to get a clear picture of what your saying here. Your saying that Racism should not exist in CF... so a neutral dwarf shouldn't have any problem grouping with a duergar? But if he does, he's a racist and thats an evil quality? Your saying that Aarn should lovingly accept Dalbiddle, and not bare him any ill will even though Dalbiddle leads a group that slaughters dwarves? Give me a clear idea of why racism is evil on CF, please.

>>American morality is based strongly off of Christianity, and
>the Bible very specifically says that anger (KJV says wrath)
>is not a sin.
>
>Does anger = rage? No. Rage is violent or explosive anger.

Thats why I specifically quoted the KJV, which says "wrath." Rage = wrath, by my definition. Not to mention that having Rage in you isn't a sin either, its what you do while you are enraged.

>In other words, losing control and/or blindly lashing out
>because your emotions are uncontrollable. Again, is this
>something you equate with 'goodness' in CF or reality?

But Aarn's religion isn't about blindly lashing out. Its about being full of rage and NOT blindly lashign out. Its about NOT letting your emotions be uncontrollable. This is what makes it "good."

>Me neither. You realize I could play a surly, grumpy,
>rageful, racist character that cursed everyone out, slew
>exclusively evils, and still be evil, right? There's no code
>of conduct that says evils have to kill goods. So tell me,
>what is the different between this hypothetical evil-killing
>evil character, and a 'good' character that has all of the
>same traits & qualities?

The difference is in the intent of the character. Are you characters intentions good, or evil, by CF definition.

>>The first thing I'll say is that your trying to apply real
>life morality to CF morality.
>
>Aarn & yourself would
>argue that racism is not inherently evil, and that I'm
>applying morals to something that is so different than our
>known reality that by definition they CANNOT be applicable. I
>disagree. In no circumstance can I see racism as a GOOD
>thing, in CF or in reality. You can feel free to convince me
>that Aarn's racism isn't inherently evil, and isn't a 'bad'
>trait.

So, you mean you don't hold with the law that beastiality is generally wrong? Or do you treat all pigs as you do humans?

>Rage is violent or explosive anger.
>In other words, losing control and/or blindly lashing out
>because your emotions are uncontrollable.

# Furious intensity, as of a storm or disease.
# A burning desire; a passion.

If it's terrible evil to hold a burning desire about something, then damned, Jesus Christ was a terrible man.

>
>Me neither. You realize I could play a surly, grumpy,
>rageful, racist character that cursed everyone out, slew
>exclusively evils, and still be evil, right?

> So tell me,
>what is the different between this hypothetical evil-killing
>evil character, and a 'good' character that has all of the
>same traits & qualities?

In the details, how does he express his racism? Does he spend his weekends sacrificing himself for homeless children.

You're viewpoint of the word "Rage" is horrifically narrow and has induced this utterly incorrect thread.

On your racism tip...
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DON'T TRY AND TELL ME THAT YOU THINK ELVES -AS A AN ENITE RACE- ARE AS STRONG AS FIRE GIANTS. THEY AREN'T? OH NO, YOU'RE A RACIST!!!!!

If Aarn was a Mortorn dwarf and hated all Akan dwarves and went out of his way to do them wrong, THEN YES, HE WOULDN'T BE A VERY NICE DWARF!

Cracking someone's skull open for annoying you isn't inherently good. Its neutral or evil but definately not good. A good person wouldn't do that. Rage works with Aarn because a lot of his religion is about harnessing it, not just letting it blindly go. Its about focus'ing it. But lest we lose our own focus on what being a goodie is if you kill soemone for pissing you off or attack them that is not a good trait that is neutral.

Aarn hitting dalbiddle wasn't because he Aarn is good, its because Aarn is a dwarf. Dalbiddle is the leader of a group of people dedicated to hunting and killing dwarves. If your a soldier in Afghanistan and you see Osama, your going to do something about it.

So I'll roll up a dwarf Maran and declare war on Outlanders. I'll roll another sphere rage goodie following Aarn and kill anyone that pisses me off.

Even a soldier in the US Army would not shoot Osama on sight providing he wasn't provoking them, they'd merely take him into custody, so saying its ok is a bit much. If I see an outlander as a dwarf maran and gang them down chances are my dwarf is going to get bitched at since they aren't supposed to be out ganging down neutrals.

Is CF more violent than real life? Sure. Is there a reason why dwarves can take neutral as an alignment instead of good? Yes.

>So I'll roll up a dwarf Maran and declare war on Outlanders.
>I'll roll another sphere rage goodie following Aarn and kill
>anyone that pisses me off.

Outlanders aren't Marans enemy. When you get a little more experinece in the game you'll know that, and you'd realize that if you don't follow cabal dogma, your out. (Its okay, we all start somewhere)

And as I've mentioned, Aarns religion is exactly about NOT killing everyone that pisses you off.


>
>Even a soldier in the US Army would not shoot Osama on sight
>providing he wasn't provoking them, they'd merely take him
>into custody, so saying its ok is a bit much. If I see an
>outlander as a dwarf maran and gang them down chances are my
>dwarf is going to get bitched at since they aren't supposed to
>be out ganging down neutrals.

Did Aarn kill Dalbiddle? No. I don't get your point.


>
>Is CF more violent than real life? Sure. Is there a reason why
>dwarves can take neutral as an alignment instead of good? Yes.
>

>Outlanders aren't Marans enemy. When you get a little more >experinece in the game you'll know that, and you'd realize that if >you don't follow cabal dogma, your out. (Its okay, we all start >somewhere)

Tell Aarn that.

>And as I've mentioned, Aarns religion is exactly about NOT killing >everyone that pisses you off.

Tell Aarn that.

>Did Aarn kill Dalbiddle? No. I don't get your point.

That's only because he (Dalbiddle) showed restraint.

As far as me needing more experience, here's a couple of my past chars:

Boldereth, Leader of Sylvan
Eskelian, Vindicator
Kerikorlian, Maran 2 virtues
Beltantis the Bastion of Honor, Maran 2 virtues.

I'm probably a total newbie though, surely not one to tangle with the almighty Warborf.

All those neato characters, I guess you grasp some parts of the game better than others.

Thank you for the kind words. Now I've got pressure to live up to them! Finding a group is certainly much harder for my character than perfecting spells, which when combined with exploring mobdeaths isn't making leveling easier.

I saw Dalbi when he was low level with another character before you were an outlander and new he was going to be deathful. You certainly didn't disappoint when I saw you with Msaylu. And just so you know, that time Aurilinius' gear disappeared after you killed him in SoS, I have no idea what happened to it. I really should have taken some

Good luck with the next.

You achieved what you were looking for and then you don't stick around to enjoy it more. I can't say I always enjoyed being dragged about but you did, at the very least, make it interesting no matter where we went. Also got to play with lifeshield a lot again thanks to you. Very underused, underrated sup. Whatever you do, don't listen to Dulmisa and make an imperial. We still have to pin her squirmy self down and get her. Then we can make imperials and be at her beck and call. Kidding Dul. Good character. Great forms for hunting. Can't count how many kills you stole from me at the last second. Hopefully life won't get boring without you about now. Thanks for all the dragons.

Air/off gnomes! What can I say I don't think you killed me, but I didn't kill you either. You allways showed up at the worse times! Which is exactly what you should do. You were a great foe allways keep me on my toes, good luck with the next, think Empire!

Hey, just wanted to say it was great knowing you had my back. Dalbiddle was just tough and completely reliable. And you were up for any challenge. If none were available.. you seemed to create them. Now that I know you were played by Minyar, I understand

Sorry I upp'd and disappeared without warning, but I have a major commitment that's rapidly approaching. If you're planning to play another character, good luck with the next! Keep em coming.

I liked Qing a lot ic and ooc. Yeah, I had a lot of fun with Dalbiddle, but a few things really started to annoy me. One of them was that I hardly had any "real" enemies to fight, so I would annoy the fortress a lot. Though, of course, Dazan gets made provost just after I delete, oh well. Anyway, I'll write more later when I'm not frustrated with the whole situation.

Minyar