Sat Oct 18 13:34:37 2003


At 4 o'clock AM, Day of the Bull, 15th of the Month of the Old Forces
on the Theran calendar Drozhurrb perished, never to return.

All of the other posts notwithstanding I'd like to hear from Guerric if you would, please.

Just not fun for the last half. Several reasons. Far too few worth mentioning in anything other than a negative way. And while it certainly showed trust to empower (first and again at 40) without ever even seeing or speaking, it seems strange, and somewhat upsetting, to be ignored by the imm for six or seven weeks later on. Empowered classes need their imm to be at least a little available. My opinion.

The only thing that really bothers me is how pathetically poor so many people's rp became. The perfect example is Person in question. The guy levels with me for ten or fifteen levels. Kills more feared swordsmen and large guards and various other goodie mobs than you can count. Then, when he hits hero, he becomes a perma with the fortress. Now, sure, I can see if he just wants to always be on the side of strength - which he did, evil in the mids, goods at hero - but my question is why do you imms allow all the fortress and other goodies to totally neglect his past? The character is not good aligned. It's not like he's some goodie mage that just didn't join the fortress. But now all of them, especially tcatama and one or two others, treat him as though he is just the same as they are. It's absurd. They ignore all his evil behavior, all his killing of countless good people, and just treat him like a goodie. They should be shunning him. But no, everyone wants their bitch 'muter.

Show some balls people and roleplay at least a little.

Sure we had this guy around for maybe a day or two. Really though, I personally knew nothing of this guys past, and there is a squire along vouching for him, why wouldn't we pick up as an ally? He ran with the fortress for maybe two or three raids, and the same of defense. Whatever he wants to do is his right, and could very well be within the boundaries of his RP. The simple fact that you have a cabal going on the word of their own and not the word of an enemy duergar shaman? Come on man, deal with it. I can't think of a single person or time when someone that wanted to tag along was grilled on how many goodies they've killed in their lifetime, and I'm fairly certain that you wouldn't take the time to do it either. If the act was witnessed thats one thing, but it wasn't. The guy seemed straight up, and a friendly cat, so we rolled with it. I'm sorry you feel so negatively about it, but thats life. As far as you go, I myself witnessed nothing positive either. However I'm not going to get into a flame war, because we all have skeletons in our closet I'm sure. I'm sorry you had a rough time, but you chose the role and the path you took, nobody else did. Good luck on your next, hope theres not as much anger and tension with it.

Jaedren

You and Tcatama talk about not knowing about his past. Well, I am sorry but I have to call ####. Countless times fortress people came and attacked us while leveling in the past during our late 20s, 30s and early 40s. In fact once or twice they were accompanied by hero fortress paladins/healers who would protect them as we fought.

As for not questioning or accepting him, he is not a lightwalker for pete's sake. If he were some elf you didn't know, or some storm giant, or any goodie, sure, he gets instant trust. But he ain't. And he is with you people far more than one or two raids, one or two defenses. Don't kid yourself.

Really, you all know better, but you just choose to ignore it so you can have a tranny buddy. If you personally, Jaedren, say you didn't in truth know, ok, fine, I'll maybe believe that. But I have played fortress and I know how people talk on the cb, about who they are fighting, who is with whom, everything. It was known. Truth to tell, it's really the Imms that are at fault for letting all of you get away with it for so long, for ignoring real rp in order to get the tranny bitch benefits.

As for redemption, Tcatama, sure, but he obviously hasn't done anything of the sort. He hasn't turned good (though maybe he should be turned good, and lose all his spells, considering he has been a fortress perma for so long) and I've seen nothing to indicate he was ever doing anything other than making it easier for himself. Evil early, good later. That's not balance or neutral, that's just ooc power gaming. Roleplay is supposed to curtail that.

Thank you for the words re: fighting big groups Tcatama. I almost never didn't show up or back down regardless of the odds. When you are a Guerric priest, showing lack of courage seems absurd. Glad it showed.

1: Maran is about redemption as much as it is destruction. Person in question may have killed feareds in his past, but I never heard of him doing it before you said it, and he never confirmed it. Also, even if he did, it seems that he's taking the right step in 'redeeming' himself by helping the fortress. So why wouldn't we want him around?

2: For what it's worth, I quite liked having Drozhurrb around as an enemy. Normally we outgunned you, but you seemed to have giant balls when it came to defending against two warriors, a paladin, a transmuter, and a shifter (or whatever we had cooking). Not only that, you had more luck escaping than anyone I've ever seen. Every time we fought I'd think to myself 'ok, how is he going to get away THIS time?' Anyway, take it easy and have fun--it's just a game.

Sigh, what a shame...

Hpe you didnt mind my little... Offer... It wasnt going to ruin anything for you, you was still part of the Empire (and i expected you to plot against me with the imm in question). I saw it as an oppotunity for you to take your role futher?!

Take care

I liked Drozhurrb, but I kind of got the feeling you thought I was a doofus based on some tactical mistakes I made while travelling with you. I'm not the most experienced "group PKer". The one time you summoned {insert random goodie} to the Bloated Whale on eastern...I didn't show up fast enough because I had no idea where that was. Was running up and down the road trying to find you guys.

Anyway...was fun.

-Msthna

The only thing that really bothers me is how pathetically poor so many people's rp became.

One example of this is a character who got a less-than-complimentary title because of his IC actions, and prayed to demand to talk to an Implementor. I assure you that will go into the Pray Hall Of Fame. But I digress.

Looking over the character in question, the logs do suggest a pattern of who he fights, but it's not the good/evil thing you claim. I can't say in detail without watching him closely, but it definitely looks like he has a sensible reason to be doing what he does. There's certainly more than one reason a character might want to oppose an Empire shaman.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>One example of this is a character who got a
>less-than-complimentary title because of his IC actions, and
>prayed to demand to talk to an Implementor. I assure you that
>will go into the Pray Hall Of Fame. But I digress.

You should post the PHOF sometime. Fun for all.

Rather not. I'm probably in there on three seperate counts already.

You know, you really can be an asshole. And for someone who is obviously a smart guy, it must be on purpose.

>The only thing that really bothers me is how pathetically
>poor so many people's rp became.
>
>One example of this is a character who got a
>less-than-complimentary title because of his IC actions, and
>prayed to demand to talk to an Implementor. I assure you that
>will go into the Pray Hall Of Fame. But I digress.

You are being deliberately misleading in order to take a cheap shot. I did not pray to talk to an implementor. I prayed to talk to whoever gave the title. Turns out it was Zulgh. There was no way I could know that.

And while we are discussing the title, let's talk about the utter hypocrisy you seem to be defending. Perfect example: Astilamos sits at a similar level for nearly three times the amount of time I was at level 40. Nearly three time as much. Was he given a negative title? No. He was promoted and then made emperor. Why the double standard? Even more, I had an *in game*, *IC* reason for being at that level. A reason I shared with my deity. I wrote it to him in a note. But of course, he then tells me three weeks later that he doesn't get notes. So I get the shaft. Yet again. But I digress.

>
>Looking over the character in question, the logs do suggest a
>pattern of who he fights, but it's not the good/evil thing you
>claim. I can't say in detail without watching him closely,
>but it definitely looks like he has a sensible reason to be
>doing what he does. There's certainly more than one reason a
>character might want to oppose an Empire shaman.

It is not a question of him opposing an empire shaman. It is a question of him being grouped with, and leveling with, almost exclusively evils for most of his life, killing good people left and right (role play means the mob that is good aligned is just as lightwalking and good as a pc, right?) and then when he's at hero becoming a perma with the fortress. This raises two issues, one being whether he can do this as part of his own roleplay, which I suppose is possible, but hardly good "neutral" play, and two, whether all the fortress goodies should be accepting him as though he is and always has been a goodie loving person. The latter is the real problem and you as an Imm shouldn't tolerate it. It's absurd and horrible roleplay simply so people can get around the inconvenience of him being a neutral goodie killer who can give them haste on a stick.

>
>valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>And while we are discussing the title, let's talk about the
>utter hypocrisy you seem to be defending. Perfect example:
>Astilamos sits at a similar level for nearly three times the
>amount of time I was at level 40. Nearly three time as much.
>Was he given a negative title? No. He was promoted and then
>made emperor. Why the double standard? Even more, I had an
>*in game*, *IC* reason for being at that level. A reason I
>shared with my deity. I wrote it to him in a note. But of
>course, he then tells me three weeks later that he doesn't get
>notes. So I get the shaft. Yet again. But I digress.

I'm surprised you even bring this up, as we already had this out when we spoke. In case you forgot here are the facts:

- You were the first to get a negative title for level sitting
- You have not been the last (I can think of at least 3 others who have also gotten one since you)
- I told you that you were the first, and would not be the last

So why continue to bitch about something we already discussed...oh right...it might get everyone to be on your side. So there is the immortal side of it.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

.

Re-read it again with your glasses on my friend. He brought it up. I didn't.

n/t

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

This is one last kick of a dead horse I'm taking some responsibility for.

Occam's Razor: Astilamos didn't get a title because no Imperial Imm at the time came up with a title. What can I say, I was mortal.

I came up with your title and made my case for it to the Imperial Imms and Guerric. You had stalled for a good while right outside hero range (with a few thousand tnl) and I wanted to motivate you to advance because I knew once you did you'd have to drag more Imperials into hero range with you. Talking to both Immortals and mortals alike, I designed that title as an accurate representation of what a broad range of people thought about Drozhurrb at that moment in the character's life. So the Big Guys agreed to give you the title until you advanced, which you did as soon as you noticed it. And when you kept advancing yourself and other Imperials, I thought "Mission accomplished, he's back on track where I need him to be."

The title wasn't malicious or mean-spirited. And the empowering God isn't the only one an Imperial Shaman has to worry about (hey, I'm evil!). I needed a go-to guy so I nudged you, and you got the job done. Had my internet connection not crapped out for the last week and a half, I might have been able to get enough buy-in for a positive title for Drozhurrb before you deleted him, but that's how the cookie crumbles.

It may not have worked out how you wanted, but good job.

See you in the Fields,
Sevarecan
sevarecan@carrionfields.com

>Just not fun for the last half. Several reasons. Far too few
>worth mentioning in anything other than a negative way. And
>while it certainly showed trust to empower (first and again at
>40) without ever even seeing or speaking, it seems strange,
>and somewhat upsetting, to be ignored by the imm for six or
>seven weeks later on. Empowered classes need their imm to be
>at least a little available. My opinion.

Just a comment on what other people haven't addressed. I didn't deal with you much beyond the lower ranks, but I did know you were a Guerric follower. I don't think you knew you were getting into when you chose to follow him. Not seeing a thing from him for six or seven weeks... is par for the course. I played a Guerric-following healer and got empowerment without much problem (there wasn't partial empowerment at the time as far as I know) but then didn't hear a word from him until I was around 250 hours (praying plenty), at which point I got tattooed and shown pretty clearly that he liked my roleplay. I think the slowness was just because he doesn't pay much attention to IC matters, or perhaps wanted to see I was planning to be around for a long time.

While you might not have known how Guerric is, in particular, you should have known he was considered dormant, at least. If you want an available imm, follow one who's active. If you want to follow one who's dormant, have fun. I did. But, don't expect much from the imm.