Wed Apr 6 22:33:25 2022

At 1 o'clock PM, Day of Thunder, 17th of the Month of the Great Evil
on the Theran calendar Baelock perished, never to return.

Fun enough ride, started off wanting to be a villager but no mages and ran into a wanna be Imperial, so went that route instead. The last straw was going to the fortress and starting a retrieval attempt against two heroes to die (of course), and they decide that they should take all the dwarf-only gear even though there's no dwarves in the fort to give it to, they have no use for it, and are dressed to the nines. You know who you are, please don't beat people with the fun stick.

Normally I wouldn't worry much about equipment, it comes and goes, but I've got a few pokers in the fire now so I decided to let Baelock go.

See you in the fields

Most people would say that using shove to cause someone a goodie mob kill, when it provides absolutely zero benefit to yourself is also ruining the fun of others.

If you specifically go out of your way to make the game less fun for other players, don't be surprised when they do the same to you.

Be better, so we can all be better.

Way to try and justify being an ass.

Recently I heard one of the bards killed a twin, summoned during a fight by an evil summoner. Then the bard plus Dohri did this whole story around it. That act created a ROLEPLAY arc for the bard and others that helped out. I think this 'evil act' only added to the experience. This is what being good align is all about.

Now, it's only spiteful if the the evil player continues to summon/shove repeatably. A few isolated instances adds to the game. Repeatably is a #### move.

Perhaps you reacted too harshly too quickly?

Personally I prefer to get acolytes good align mob kills, marans tend to care way less about roleplaying.

You're a real gem.

Good way to justify maybe that one incident, but what about the others, or is that just anyone that opposes you makes it less fun?

First I really wish you had not posted with your name as you are active and your post will without a doubt affect how some people interact with you IC.

Now I'm sorry but your post is utter trash. You are wanting to punish a character for doing an action IC with OOC reasoning/punishment. Why WOULDNT a duergar(A vile evil race) use shove (a cabal skill given to him) to inflict harm upon good, or at the very least try to prevent good from engaging? If he was going outside of his set class/cabal skills to do something outside of the character to grief....eh sure maybe.

You say "Be better", but I'm sorry but YOU should be better. As a PALADIN you allowed your OOC feelings to shine through and drive your actions. Not the actions of a good light loving paladin. A paladin SHOULD be better, should act better, and should know better.

Instead you only give reasons for people not to play when you are around.

Fort acted in character, not ooc. They stopped the duergar from raiding the fort, made them less likely to kill other goodies, and gave them an rp opportunity as a naked duergar. If the duergar would have asked, they could have learned how bad shoving is.

If that's the attitude, then everybody should be stripped bare every time, right? I mean, you're my enemy, killing innocents, leaving you even your pies doesn't make sense.

Given that there has to be a balance between the gameplay and fun for players there's more nuance to it than that.

The shove in question happened well before the looting. And I did not particularly care to out anyone, but since he stepped in cool. I had decent swords, those got disarmed/taken, etc., in battles unrelated to this. So as a level 45, I decide to hit the maran against a hero who is solo raiding with a hero bard remaining behind to defend. I overstayed a bit, died, fine.

The question is why should they take all the dwarf-only gear when there isn't even a dwarf on to take it? If the intention is to dissuade people from even bother to fight, then that makes sense. Baelock was already easy prey to either of them with the gear. The bard along was nearly killing me, so when the paladin walked in it took a single hit to make me die.

So they decided to take the good gear, leave the things that I can get myself, and talk about giving it to captain whoever it was in Galadon. So setting me up to kill a goodie to try to get them back, etc., but whatever.

The end of the day it was more just a bad taste in my mouth and lack of time to really invest in this particular character. If there was even another dwarf around to give it to, cool. I've had that happen before as a different character without concern. It's the attitude of "hey, this easy frag came and died, let's take away the best things they have that we have no direct use for" that doesn't sit well. Like why would you *not* want to have more fights?

My two cents.... For whats its worth as a serial fortie, and I'm not playing Kaide....

I think the issue comes with the thought that all goodie kills for Fort are equal, and in reality they are not. The problem comes in the perception that all goodie kills are morally equivalent. And if thats the case, then the pursuant RP arc that has to come for some of us is just a large PITA. This dates back to someone going Brigade and just non-chalantly killing anything that got in their way, and fragging goodies and saying well, Oh well, not a big deal.... I mean like intentionally and/or pseudo-intentionally(Getting wanted and wading through Voralia killing peace keepers.)

Fort Imms can sure chime in on this, but I see several different situations where a goodie kill calls for less punitive RP.

1) Pure negligence - Ok, you sing a song, call a fireball, whatever in a place that causes a goodie to die. Real remorse and a don't do it again attitude and some RP are good for the soul here

2) Self Defense - A goodie PC or goodie mob throws down, and you put them down by accident. Lets take a look at some of the mobs in Ayr, and the saurian village here, that actively assist evil mobs

3) No-fault kill - You are grouped with someone who frags a mob, its either too fast for you to do anything, or its because your group member did one of the above.

4) PC initiated situations - Things like Shove, or other options, where you are physically put into a situation where you kill a goodie. I mean in real life, if the bad guy you are fighting grabs your sword and pushes it through the child that is walking down the street, hes at fault not you.

What it all comes down to is that the mud only mimicks the real world and IMM's unless they are right there witnessing it, only see what hits your pfile. I mean really, you are fighting a duergar PC in mortorn, he shoves you into a dwarf, that dwarf IRL isn't going to keep swinging at you, he's smart enough to see what happened and re-direct back onto the duergar, but In the mud, I don't think thats even possible to code.

At the end of the day, its perception on both sides. most people know that making a fortie fight/kill a good NPC causes them headaches, and most forties are expecting that if they kill an NPC no matter what, they are in for one of 2 things, a LONG HAUL RP Arc that they just don't have the patience for, or a boot from for, all because the game is psuedo real world and not fully real.

Realistically the Fortie in question who looted you heavy was looking at it from his side as you were trying to "ruin" his character with the blemish of a goodie kill, cause its no fun to have to RP those arcs when its someone else who is arguably to blame.

Just my $0.02.

Seems to be the way Fort is right now. The all login and off together and are loot heavy, even things they don't use.