What were the specs and legacies? Nt,
TJHuron,
02-Jul-18 12:31 PM, #11
Hand/axe space/stsf nt,
Demos,
02-Jul-18 03:00 PM, #12
RE: (DELETED) [BATTLE] Doryur the Legend of the Battlef...,
Ishuli,
01-Jul-18 03:44 PM, #10
Mixed feelings,
Jormyr,
29-Jun-18 12:38 AM, #1
RE: Mixed feelings,
Itham,
29-Jun-18 01:21 AM, #2
Circle Comment,
TJHuron,
29-Jun-18 10:59 AM, #3
Legitimate points,
Jormyr,
29-Jun-18 02:41 PM, #4
RE: Formalizing the non-engagement of non-enemies rule,
Humbert,
29-Jun-18 09:16 PM, #5
RE: Formalizing the non-engagement of non-enemies rule,
Jhyrbian,
29-Jun-18 10:23 PM, #6
I understood the difference.,
Jormyr,
01-Jul-18 12:56 AM, #9
If he actually did have those rules,
Java,
30-Jun-18 01:14 AM, #7
RE: If he actually did have those rules,
Jhyrbian,
30-Jun-18 01:48 AM, #8
Mixed feelings as well.,
sshhaappaa (NOT Shapa),
04-Jul-18 01:51 AM, #13
RE: Mixed feelings as well.,
Bemused,
04-Jul-18 03:21 AM, #14
You seem to think that Jormyr is a brand new immortal?,
Destuvius,
04-Jul-18 04:16 AM, #15
LOL,
jalbrin,
05-Jul-18 05:29 PM, #16
GLWYN,
jalbrin,
05-Jul-18 05:46 PM, #17
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TJHuron | Mon 02-Jul-18 12:31 PM |
Member since 28th Nov 2007
1132 posts
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#134478, "What were the specs and legacies? Nt"
In response to Reply #0
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Demos | Mon 02-Jul-18 03:00 PM |
Member since 20th Apr 2003
211 posts
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#134479, "Hand/axe space/stsf nt"
In response to Reply #11
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Jormyr | Fri 29-Jun-18 12:38 AM |
Member since 31st Dec 2014
422 posts
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#134447, "Mixed feelings"
In response to Reply #0
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On one side, I'm a little disappointed to see a character delete over losing leadership. On the other, I'm also not particularly upset over a character deleting from something as utterly non-debilitating as *not having a leader weapon*. That's literally the loss your character experienced.
For the record:
1) I honestly don't think you were so out of line to be punished over the Tribunal fights. 2) I do think it followed a tendency you (and other Ragers have) of having become so paranoid about what you "can" get away with and who you "can" fight, that people've lost track over who Ragers *should* fight. 3) Things *certainly* weren't helped with what I am assuming and hoping was an honest mistake by a matter that likely would have been best served privately becoming a ridiculous public mess. 4) I did appear with the expectation of unleadering you, due to both 2 and 3 above as well calling you out on wanting to boot someone for the same general deficits Doryur displayed. Again, I didn't particularly think either was outrageously egrerious, but you can't tow the hard line if you aren't following it yourself. Somewhere in the process, I had changed my mind and decided to try to make it a learning experience. Unfortunately, the idea that any villager is too good, or otherwise above being called to the circle is unacceptable.
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Itham | Fri 29-Jun-18 01:20 AM |
Member since 29th Apr 2018
126 posts
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#134448, "RE: Mixed feelings"
In response to Reply #1
Edited on Fri 29-Jun-18 01:21 AM
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Tribunal fights? Hope you didn't deleader him cause I kept trying to kill him for being wanted.
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TJHuron | Fri 29-Jun-18 10:59 AM |
Member since 28th Nov 2007
1132 posts
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#134452, "Circle Comment"
In response to Reply #1
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Before I say this I just want to say that I have not been following this drama at all. I know there were logs posted and comments made on qhcf but I never dug into it.
Regarding your comment about the idea any Villager is above being called to the circle, I always understood that to be not as firm for the Commander and DM.
You give the Commander (and the DM for enforcing the Commander's stances) some leeway on how to run the Village and direct Villager behavior, as well as protecting the firm Village rules, and that has to come with some immunity on being called to the circle. Otherwise, anytime someone didn't like their discipline they could just call the Commander to the circle and hope to win. What else do they have to lose?
This obviously has to come with the Commander being certain he is in the right on the discipline and wouldn't apply if the Commander/DM did something to break Villager RP.
I'm pretty sure stuff like this has happened in the past and the Commander has accepted the challenge, however, were I playing the Commander (and certain I was in the right) and someone tried to skirt my disciple by calling the circle I'd probably just uninduct them and be done with it.
The circle isn't supposed to be a method to weasel your way out of your own f-up, IMO.
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Jormyr | Fri 29-Jun-18 02:41 PM |
Member since 31st Dec 2014
422 posts
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#134455, "Legitimate points"
In response to Reply #3
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I did expect someone to bring up this perspective, and while I don't want to derail Doryur's death thread too much, I will certainly respond since I think it's relevant.
I think the biggest problem people have with the Circle is that the fight itself is less directly about who "wins", and more of a place to lay it on the line and stand for your beliefs/opinion. Being *unwilling* to appear is effectively cowardice from a Battle perspective. It's also sort of the "We don't want to hear you yelling at each other on CB, go punch each other 'til you've settled it".
I do agree that challenging the leadership should be an exceptional thing, and carry the understanding that what may have been a disagreement may now cost you your spot in the cabal. So in that sense at least, there should definitely be a thought of "Is this worth escalating and risk, or should I maybe just listen and follow?"
As I write this, though, I realize that there's perhaps a good amount of this that's always just been carried in whatever "tradition". Panmorne and I have already been discussing a few small spots to tweak/clarify common issues in the village. Adding something that can more easily be referenced about the circle beyond "what everyone "knows"" might not be a bad idea.
I think this is a productive conversation and am more than willing to continue it, but for the sake of not utterly hijacking Doryur's thread, if anyone wants to continue the topic, please post in Gameplay and I'll continue there.
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Humbert | Fri 29-Jun-18 09:16 PM |
Member since 13th Jun 2009
179 posts
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#134459, "RE: Formalizing the non-engagement of non-enemies rule"
In response to Reply #1
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I think Doryur probably had a clear rule in mind that he would follow and enforce, and he did follow it. It goes as follows:
1. If you are struck by a non-enemy, you may defend yourself and attempt to slay them for the following X hours (maybe 6 hours, or 12 hours?), in any location in Thera at all.
2. If you have not been struck by a non-enemy in the past X hours, you may not initiate a fight against them. You may also not purposely run to them, as if provoking them into a fight, if there is no other reason for running to their location (e.g. cabal war).
That's consistent with the behaviour Doryur claims to have followed, and also consistent with punishing Zah: presumably Zah wanted to break (2), by initiating combat against some Fortressites.
If your disagreement is with those rules above, then too bad for Doryur. It was a bit frustrating following your conversation in the log going in circles around one another, when really it boils down to whether you accept the formalizations (1) and (2) above.
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Jhyrbian | Fri 29-Jun-18 10:23 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
917 posts
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#134461, "RE: Formalizing the non-engagement of non-enemies rule"
In response to Reply #5
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Yeah, I don't understand why Jormyr can't see the difference between the two either, one the rager is initiating, one they are retaliating.
It honestly looks like Jormyr just wanted Doryur out and was willing to be pedantic about it to do it.
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Jormyr | Sun 01-Jul-18 12:56 AM |
Member since 31st Dec 2014
422 posts
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#134471, "I understood the difference."
In response to Reply #6
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I also happen to think they're both relatively comparable on the scale of "What Ragers should be doing with their day."
Since clearly everyone has seen Shaapa's logs, my specific inquiry to Doryur was the level of disparity in response to both behaviors.
Also, I'll reiterate the comment that Shaapa wasn't removed from leadership for those actions, but other commentary.
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Jhyrbian | Sat 30-Jun-18 01:48 AM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
917 posts
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#134465, "RE: If he actually did have those rules"
In response to Reply #7
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No one has ever accused Shaapa of being the best at getting his point across in english. Oh well, it is what it is.
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sshhaappaa (NOT Shapa) | Wed 04-Jul-18 01:51 AM |
Charter member
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#134490, "Mixed feelings as well."
In response to Reply #1
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The good is that i finally left this dying game after playing this gnome warrior.
The bad is that many players have already left and many will leave because of the noobish immortals who like to put their noses into all possible holes.
Immortalization process should be changed. Right now with few rare exceptions a players who are less than average in their game knowledge/pk abilities write an area, wait 1 year and become an immortals. Then put their noses into all possible holes without even understanding what's going on.
P.S. Didn't read all this crap you wrote here because who cares about what noobs what like to put their noses into all possible holes write?
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Bemused | Wed 04-Jul-18 03:21 AM |
Member since 15th Oct 2013
665 posts
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#134491, "RE: Mixed feelings as well."
In response to Reply #13
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I loved the way you played the game from a technical/mechanical point of view. Always played a character to its upper limit.
Also agree with all the points you mention here.
Take a break from CF and maybe check back in when you feel the need.
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jalbrin | Thu 05-Jul-18 05:29 PM |
Member since 20th Apr 2009
211 posts
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#134501, "LOL"
In response to Reply #15
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I'll admit there have been times in the past when I've thought you were a ####.
I'll also admit that there will always be a need for a Valguarnera type in the staff, and you've taken the spot admirably.
This reply was hilarious.
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jalbrin | Thu 05-Jul-18 05:38 PM |
Member since 20th Apr 2009
211 posts
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#134502, "GLWYN"
In response to Reply #13
Edited on Thu 05-Jul-18 05:46 PM
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It's possible to master the mechanical aspects of a system, and still fail at the political and social part.
The game doesn't always have fixed rules. Things change. Things evolve. Things can be debated, in game.
You lost a leader weapon on a frigging gnome warrior and decided that *that* was what was going to make you delete.
You're a great player but an absolutely crappy player to play *with,* with the exception of whoever happens to be in your cabal this time.
I admire you opening up the Russian cheat ring (which I have no doubt you profited from massively over the years,) but information from the Putinites has made it pretty clear that you're a drug addict living in your mother's basement, so I look forward to seeing your next character sooner rather then later.
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