Tue May 10 23:13:43 2016

At 1 o'clock PM, Day of the Sun, 6th of the Month of the Frost Giant
on the Theran calendar Qinsa perished, never to return.

I'm an on and off CFer and only occasionally look at the forums. However, I have taken the time to read this thread in its entirety. I was touched by your disability, whatever it may be, I think because I have often considered that I may play CF all day long if in a similar circumstance. I then went back and read all your PBFs, and all the threads of your other characters.

There is a strong thread through all of them - this reoccurring theme of you butting heads with people over your ardent belief you are right, despite their being insurmountable evidence to the contrary. In the world of CF it matters very little, but in your real world I suspect it matters very much. So, my heart goes out to you and I would like to offer you a saying that changed my life.

"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."

I just feel like all this friction you're getting from people would evaporate if you followed this simple saying. I fully realize this post is probably irrelevant to you, but please know it comes from a place of sincerity.

I liked Qinsa with both, his enemy and his ally characters. In my life, I follow the motto "You can be right, or you can be smart". Probably this also will help Qinsa and player behind the character. Willing best to him, and hope to see his next creation in the fields soon (and hope it will be a team evil character, not yet another pally)

I think "better to be happy and having fun than right" applies.

I enjoyed interacting with you. I sensed a fair amount of drama (in game) surrounding your character but you were always good to me.

On the abuse of power - I felt like you held your hand when you caught us leveling with a WANTED outlander in Organia. You could have ***stretched*** Law No. 3 to flag me and Soty but you did not. For that I commend you.

Generally speaking, as a Provost, I always ruled in favor of Law No. 3 applying only within jurisdiction - i.e. the four protected city. I think there is room to stretch it a little further (interference with the apprehension of a WANTED criminal by a Vindicator on Easter Road, for example) but such stretching needs to be done very carefully.

GLWYN and thanks for all the fish!

There was no real reason for you to interact with me, but you seemed to speak with me during nearly every one of my logins. Thanks for that - when high level chars take interest in lowbies it makes for a more enjoyable experience.

Thanks again. Only good impressions from me.

Gonna take a break from writing till im more clear headed, but this one will be short.

Nexus suffered a very long time with leaders that were rarely ever on. Pledges could become heroes (and did) without ever seeing them for long periods of time. During the time though I had balindorf, for a test build I loved and wanted to recreate, but remade as domond because the balance seemed off, when there would be balance, with one maran, and four or five evils, things did not mesh with me as far as the underdog thing, so went to maran and left them.
But the cabal at the time was mostly empty and suffered from their leadership that was rarely ever on. Voted as leaders still because yeah while they were there they did something, but there really wasnt much to pick from.

Cablesko - you existed during that time, and was most often completely alone, in a mostly abandoned cabal. So with that yeah I cheered you on a bit, you still played. Recently nexus has leaders again that actually do play, but in character you made a comment : You are the only nexan that was willing to attack the spire. And you were right, the 'only' one in the history of this char.
But please keep in mind, they are on right new, the complete underdog side of wars with new leadership. They do not have much of a force right now. I am a bit more lenient in that, in that there are not many people that are willing to spend an hour to gather preps for a few fights, and less that are THAT knowledgeable. I am hoping the new nexan leaders rebuild well.. that is what I hope they focus on. They do have the applicants, they have hte leadership now. Getting the quality people is something they still have to get. Right now they can still barely fight off the village. Sometimes. Without help. Let em grow a bit.
Otherwise yeah, you were solid, and you tried hard. I loved your char, and loved you as balindorf too man. Just asking you to be understanding of the nexan position at the moment. They should be helping the others, but right now realistically, they need more help than they can give.
P.S. as far as the fela gear was concerned, I was not hunting your char I had no reason to, but fela only gear is fela only gear, and I did make offers to thse that were hunting you to buy them But no, my char had no reason to hunt you with not being a criminal.

Lsokoa - I remember telling you about a few specific talismans but I did not help you much. You are a good presence though, and many will help you more if you need it, and you ARE trying I do see that. With what I said above, you do have alot of rebuilding to do. I liked talking to you, and liked seeing you, and I really, really hope nexus gets some good people. They supposed to help rise against the power swings dangit

Rest of them - invoker. You helped me a few times killing a demon. Thank you. Otherwise I did not speak with you much, or the others. Others being a specific shapeshifter, and I think that is all the nexans that were active, there was not much. Lanning became a nexan, and dissapeared a newer person I was rooting for.

Little secret for my timidity with some of you and wariness that showed a bit, unless I just got used to helping you - if a rat wanted to take over my galadon nexans would help it, just because I am in power at the time
The timidity and hesitance around you all was because of that reason, I just.. couldnt resist being helpful after all the interactions I would have when I can, especially with all of them with you Lsokoa.

I liked Balindorf. Wish you stayed around for longer, you gave me quite a beating but my form wasn't mastered and then you deleted. I liked our conflict and we might've ended up as friends after all.

much of the rest of the death thread is turning out to be crap, so I wanna get the goodbyes done, so here it is to empirials.

Caecilius - that was completely in char. I actually have alot of respect for you and like you, and always considered you very strong and smart both as domond and bethanny. But to wage a war on his galadon and spire, against a territorial cat, I have to take action. From an ooc standpoint, I really didnt want to fight against the empire, because it was a small cabal. I like playing the underdog, being in the tiny cabal against the big ones. It was a position that, my hands were tied, I couldnt just sit back after the empire took the scales. Same as I couldnt sit back with the villagers with their crap.
The reason I wrote the poem, was just to try to get the war ended, try to have some means a new emporer would be raised.. something.. anything to get the war over. I was really looking for any excuse. It was darvoderis that ended up giving it to me about a week before emporer was declared, and then by in char, I could stop.
We really did not interact more, but from what I saw, for you in char you were trying to promote the empire and safety of citizens, and even then I had respect for you because typical emporers dont do that. I just.. could not change my stance. I could not even do what you were asking about.
Just wanted to let you know it was all in character, and I have alot of respect for you, your playstyle, your traps (ow) and all that you have done. I have been waiting to say this for a good long time.
im sorry you were removed from emporer, but.. in character.. I had to react to the war, and I had to do something to end the war. Please understand my situation.

Shadow loooord - You supported caecilius in his war, but wouldnt become a criminal, saying was more ways to fight a war . It was a bit silly in my chars mindframe, but his style was to be more aggressive, especially since I do not assassinate. But the thing, you DID support the war, so before the others I did hunt you a bit.
I want to say in char i had to taunt you a bit, and I saw you as a rival that wanted war on his galadon, ooc though I have alot of respect foor you. You arent just an assassinate assassin you will throw down too, and you did a dang good job with it. I did wrry about prepping alot because any smart person will see a fight being bad at start from tons of preps and will back off and use terraign / tactics, but on the other hand, if I didnt prep at least with stoneskin / trance things would likely go in your favor. Wish i had chosen a different buki for assassin vs assassin. But you were great, and are a solid char and presence. Just wanted to say that ooc, because I couldnt ic.

Darvoderis - please understand still that once the empire did take the scales, I could no longer keep myself from fighting. I saw it as any empirial would take advantage of the situation if they could, even another fela (dread lord), and was the reason he was a criminal when he logged in (though took his own life very shortly after). I really did not want the war, I did not want to really only have the very few of empire as enemies, when they had it hard as it was. Im sorry that I killed you, and I am VERY sorry of the hamsah guards doing what they had. Ow.
But you were a machine, you kept going, and I fully supported you ooc, though ic I had to take a stand. I did want my respect for you to show, so when I wrote, I made it a point to speak of the respect I had for you. You always saw to the codex no matter what happened, and not all empirials were like that. You put yourself in bad situations that I would not do without an extreme amount of preps (and at some points, I used EXTREME amount of preps ). Dying didnt matter, but the empire mattered, and your heart and soul was in it. I loved your char, I loved that you did all this, and I loved you were hardcore about it. You really, really deserved emporer. But of your char, your doggedness, I am a fan. Keep truckin as long as you can man.

Tiny FAAAAANGS - or ms. queenie if you prefer I loved the char, though at first was a bit of odds. Understand my char could not count well, never could, and could not tell time well (is why I would say to people that i havent seen them for almost all of my life, even if it was just yesterday) so speaking of a god that was not current was of odds to him, even moreso that there was a spider god that my char loved, and thought highly of and was still influential a bit in my character. Maybe odds wasnt the right word to use, but my character could not understand yours. We did have a little bit of a relationship though I would really have liked to get to know your character more. I love the poison path, and loved using a poisoner in my examples for pledges, and wish you would have seen an interview, just for you to get a kick from it. I do see nothing but good things for your character, so keep trucking.

Also darvod, it showed alot for you that you had the one sect in the empire (and divine sect that required empowerment at that) that had all the strength in the empire left, showed that you were someone that cared for the cabal and what he did. Good job on that too.

I'm missing another divine, but we came to really speaking during the time I was fighting against the empire due to the war. So yeah, we did not have the relationship beforehand that myself and darvod had, when darvod was for the most part alone against the world. I tried to make up for it by being eyes for you and giving you warnings, and being a little helpful, but at the same time, being against non enemy cabals I did not do so much to help. The war was just something I had to fight back on.

Fire giant warrior.. prax.. something I am not thinking it. We didnt interact much, aside helping you level while helping a magistrate level. Your in a hard spot, I am hoping you become beastly one day but you are in a really hard spot, and really are in a position you have to massively overprep, and I dunno if you know everything your needing. (there was one fight i used ironskin, scaley hide, stoneskin, shield, aura, trance, flight, resist mental and the other with that prep, protection, haste, and sanctuary to attack 3 at the tree and get the scales back. Did not use resist metal or a few others in this one)
That fight ended up ilztyr slept before I got there and the other two did not show up, wasting the preps (pill box and a half) but.. you are also in an underdog cabal. I wanna see you become beastly. prep prep prep!

There was not that many empirials, and I did not interact with all of them. These were the ones notable offhand.

I'll post more on Qinsa and Trib/Empire once I am gone, but for now will say I was a big fan of Qinsa and totally understood where they were coming from during the Empire/Trib war. I get Outlanders complaining about they could not retrieve against you and that lowered their fun level, but as someone that was used to trying to retrieve against odds and insects at the tree pretty constantly early on, I cannot say I am overly sympathetic.

I didn't like your looting stance against the village toward the end, but understood the reasoning behind it. With or without justification, however, I think it is always important to keep sight of this is a game people are trying to play for enjoyment, and how our actions factor into that for everyone involved.

I didn't see you as acting out of character. I noticed early on you must have had the macho flaw and sort of played it out. Plus the (gross) talks about 'marking' in galadon, I had indeed sussed it out. I won't get too much in to it as I'm still playing, but no harm no foul. I -always- like to roll with the punches, part of what makes the game good for me is just that -- you can't control another players reactions, and there are a lot on (not as much as once but enough) so there is ALWAYS friction. And my role, and actions, were pretty well intended to cause a huge amount of friction. To hell with the same cookie cutters over and over again, and that counts for both of us in my book. If I remember it when my char is said and done, I actually have a fairly humorous thing to relate to you that might better show that I really had no hard feelings whatsoever.

IC-wise, you seemed to not have noticed that I wasn't speaking to you at all for the last... well, a while. I was still Emperor when I stopped talking to you in any way, verbally. But again, strictly from an IC reason, we were playing a similar style in that once my char was rubbed the wrong way, that was essentially it for our relationship. So we had a bad relationship, but it was good roleplay for both our parts IMO to have that bad relationship.

So yeah, as a player, no harm no foul

GLWYN, maybe we'll be on the same team next time!

gr

But on the other hand, trapper is not "cookie cutter"

Having been provost at one time with a marble mouthed dwarf I found your interpretation of law very poor. Seeing I got demoted from provost to magistrate for equipping when alone as a healer with an active Umiron, I found it insane the crap you got away without supervision, you never moved without guards, you placed crap flags, you contorted the laws to a point I considered you no different than an imperial, and even equated you as being just as lawless as an outlander. Just sad that I was watched closer than you and you got away with way more and way worse things, and I got booted for some measly gearing, crap job to you and those supposed to be watching you

Hopefully you will post with more clarity and less lying.

When you start full-sacing characters for no other reason than they are associated with another character (i.e. Cabalmates) you are being a classic mega-douchebag. There's just no justification you can make for it. And we know you tried.

A full-sac in CF is the ultimate insult. It is this way because people have to invest a lot of time into putting their sets together and is often why it is taken so personally and can be considered somewhat OOC. It is the most severe way one player can hinder and disable another players character and it is done out of spite with intent to harm to the fullest extent. That being said, it does have its place, I think most players would agree, and that is usually in retaliation for other progressively escalating slights and insults (kind of like your original situation with Kalvin and Thel). But, being the preeminent insult it rightfully has a negative stigma attached to it for those that abuse it, which you decided to do.

So when you start full-sacing people just for playing a certain cabal you are really insulting those players in the most potent way possible. For no good reason. And you shouldn't be surprised the community thinks your an asshole for it.

This will be explained in detail, but no, not because you were associated with another character, but because you and the other villagers completely betrayed my char, the nasty attitudes of the village, constant and overly excessive whining was why I did not feel bad about it. But you villagers, all of you let a person create a character and pretty much run the cabal as he wanted. None of you took the guy to the rites, none of you questioned him, except one.
For the most part the villagers, the ones I did speak to (except that one) treated the actions of the villagers as a thing they dont care about, despite being against their own rules.
Yes those two (mainly one by intent at first) wanted a war. Got it, and named the way they wanted the war. I spread it around, really because the village was ####, the things they did, how they treated my char including you, I was getting my point across. You should be better. You deserved it.

Edit:

#### it. I'm not going to argue with you.

Be better to other players next time around. Don't let your OOC knowledge of how a cabal works influence your IC judgments. There were stuff on the battle side that you did not see.

I have logged nothing, and no we did not interact much, what little bit of it I saw as whiney, why bother?

and yes I knew when it became 'okay' for the village to guard the scales. Personally it didnt matter, because specific people were already attacking for the scales and attacking the spire, and me and annkhu. Changed nothing on my end.

We spoke twice that I recall when Hal was in low ranks.

Once when you asked me to join spire before I became an applicant and another time when you were telling me about some day? I can't recall the specifics had to do with an Empire character and a note.

How could I be whiney if we didn't talk?

Just wow, guy. Wow.

You missed the conversation you had when you were warranted.

I haven't had a warrant in the hero range when I could fight you.

And when I was warranted in the early ranks we never had anything that could be considered a conversation.

.

no text here.

For the first long time, a good char. Towards the end, not so much. You have a lot of incorrect assumptions that you made about a lot of things but since you already believe yourself to be right, its not worth my time or energy to bring the truth.

My biggest piece of advice for you would be to stick to playing cabals that have a bit more wiggle room in terms of what they can and cannot do without breaking cabal dogma. That way when you decide to go all loose cannon and play outside the box a bit, its less likely to lead to consequences.

You pushed me to prep harder and try new things when I fought you, and in that you forced me to be a better player. I did grow tired of having to work my ass off -just to survive-, but you do what you gotta do.

Regarding targetting you on retrievals. I tried that a few times after I had accumulated a few StSF charges, but I did not dodge or parry your army well enough to engage you directly where you could then use kote/kans and your throws would have a higher chance of landing. Each of those times (4ish) it went very, very badly for the visiting team. Had you used nerve strikes when I was doing the hit-and-run to soften me up even the hit-and-run would have been that much harder.

Consistent RP on your part, and I only saw the good (albeit pain-in-the-ass) side of you. I hope to hell I have you on my team when you create your next powerhouse.

I really meant it that you were the one that worried me, and yeah with all those minions it would still be rough but it was THEN, was those times I could not prep much, or for long and still defend, and you healed SO fast.
I wasnt a nerve assassin, I was a throw assassin. The bad side of the char came much later dealing with villagers, sooo.

You have a lot of incorrect assumptions that you made about a lot of things but since you already believe yourself to be right, its not worth my time or energy to bring the truth.

You post this, then why post?

As far as the second line : My biggest piece of advice for you would be to stick to playing cabals that have a bit more wiggle room in terms of what they can and cannot do without breaking cabal dogma. That way when you decide to go all loose cannon and play outside the box a bit, its less likely to lead to consequences.

I was removed due to a situation with umiron completely. I did deserve to be removed, I got on is ass. He also deserved it. Thats the reason I was removed.

As far as loose cannon and playing outside the box a bit, didnt. You sir on this one I would like you to ask the other imms, the one that while umiron was dormant, was watching over the cabal. I had already spoken to annkhu of a war, and he supported it. Did not write the note of it and thats the only reason I was not going after the head. The executioner was the one that mentioned also, it was the vindicator to declare war. This was before umirons note. My going after the villagers was justified in char, did not go against cabal dogma in that, and was deserved and earned by their actions.

Please, if you are going to post, post something relevant? Okay? Something with knowledge of the events that happened both with the imm that was watching out over the cabal and what was happening in char?

If you had spent even 30 minutes of one of your 19 hour sessions reading the guidelines and books available to you in the cabal you'd have avoided pretty much all negative feedback associated with this character.

Other than the OOC douchiness.


>You have a lot of incorrect that you made about a
>lot of things but since you already believe yourself to be
>right, its not worth my time or energy to bring the truth.
>
>You post this, then why post?
>
>As far as the second line : My biggest piece of advice for you
>would be to stick to playing cabals that have a bit more
>wiggle room in terms of what they can and cannot do without
>breaking cabal dogma. That way when you decide to go all loose
>cannon and play outside the box a bit, its less likely to lead
>to consequences.
>
>I was removed due to a situation with umiron completely. I did
>deserve to be removed, I got on is ass. He also deserved it.
>Thats the reason I was removed.
>
>As far as loose cannon and playing outside the box a bit,
>didnt. You sir on this one I would like you to ask the other
>imms, the one that while umiron was dormant, was watching over
>the cabal. I had already spoken to annkhu of a war, and he
>supported it. Did not write the note of it and thats the only
>reason I was not going after the head. The executioner was the
>one that mentioned also, it was the vindicator to declare war.
>This was before umirons note. My going after the villagers was
>justified in char, did not go against cabal dogma in that, and
>was deserved and earned by their actions.
>
>Please, if you are going to post, post something relevant?
>Okay? Something with knowledge of the events that happened
>both with the imm that was watching out over the cabal and
>what was happening in char?
>

I am very 100% certain, that when executioner says the vindicator is the only one that has that right, and he is the one that says it, that I would follow it.
If you had any clue, at all, whatsoever. I would ask the imm that was watching over to post for clarification.

However, on this, the day you actually have a clue, please speak then. As far as a ooc douchiness, yes I had to deal with much of that.

I thought Domond and Qinsa both were awesome. Qinsa never flagged or sacd me I just call BS when I see it.

Correcting you seems like an exercise in futility... but.

The vindicator is allowed to kill outers and fight inners of all the other cabals in his quest to bring criminals to justice. This is what is referenced by starting wars with other cabals.

Tell me, did you lose your tribunal powers by breaking into a cabal other than outlander? See, there you go.

Executioner was the one that mentioned of being the only one to start wars. Please re-read that over and over, and over and over until that sinks in. Wow man.

And yes, you do lose your powers when you attack other cabals. And actually, any magistrate going inside another cabal to hunt a criminal is not something I would ever consider bad as long as a criminal is inside. A magistrate hunting a criminal? + 1 to them.

From the texts on Off-Duty Magistrates.

You are free to have your own opinions and relationships, in
particular with other cabals. Should you find it necessary to participate
upon a raid into another cabal, keep in mind that you may be called upon
to justify your actions. No matter how you may view such an action, the
members of the cabal being struck will surely take note of your position as
a Magistrate - even one off-duty - and only a fool will think that this will
not have some negative impact. Furthermore, once you have participated in
a raid against a cabal that is not an enemy of the Spire, you will not be
allowed to use any of the Spires powers for several days. We will have no
Magistrate hiding from his off-duty conflicts under the banner of the Spire.
Anyone caught attempting to do so will be dealt with harshly. In short, do
as you wish on your off-duty time as long as it does not negatively reflect
upon or impact the Spire.

*** As others have mentioned, pretty certain you lose powers when raiding any cabal but Outlander. Therefore, *ONLY* Outlander is enemy of the Tribunal.


From the texts on Vindicators -

Only a Vindicator has the authority to take another cabal's sacred
item, from anyone that is not already an enemy of the Spire. This is
only to be done after the most careful consideration, and after every
other possible avenue has been explored. While taking an item may
finally bring the criminals hiding within to justice, it will greatly
inflame the other members of the cabal. This is left to the judgment
of the Vindicator.

*** (Weird, how taking a cabal item is likely to inflame another
cabal) Reading this with above only a Vindicator can take the
cabal item of anyone not Outlander. Nothing in this talks about
declaring war. Maybe the executioner mis-stated it, maybe you
mis-understood the statement. Maybe I'm wrong, but the best I can
tell (and note everyone except you seems to take it the same way),
but no matter what you, or a Vindicator, or anyone else wants to
"say", you still lose powers when raiding, so non-Outlander cabals
are still NOT ENEMIES of Tribunal. Does it suck? Sometimes. Is
that the way Tribunal is? Yep. Hell, I was even arguing FOR
Tribunal being allowed to fight back in the right circumstances,
but that's not the way it is.

this will be somewhat longish, everything in here, then responding to the personal ones below. I will start with the better people on the game, and cabals, then work my way down battle and umiron, and he reason I was removed from the cabal.

OUTLANDER :
Ilztyr - I am used to nightreavers that do little for the cabal, and even more kill the other people in it usually because they can. With bethanny I pretty much saw the branch as the weakest link but still had to interact with it and the people in it (though still loved the nightreaver in char and roleplay, still came out to how I thought of the reaver branch itself). Lo and behold I have someone I consider a true nightreaver, a destroyer and someone powerful enough that the other branches SHOULD fear, without having to kill them. I was a bit bitter that we were enemies in this, because by the time you became NR and hero, tree was already in bad shape and needed you. Sorry rl reared its ugly head but you were a great char, solid and needed for the tree. (yes already know armies suck to fight against for arcane )

Myriani - There was something I wanna say now that I couldnt in game. For ilztyr the biggest problem taking me down was my -89 saves vs para that I could have with a prep and feral growl and my gear. With you was different. During your hit and run defenses, once my trance was gone, I either had only stoneskin or nothing, since protection didnt matter for you. If you at any time during those points after dashing in, hitting captain, hurled on me etc, then switched to me, you would likely have gotten me down, or fled to heal, returned to do it. I could not stop it. Tactically in a retrieval, so many times if you had done tha, you would have taken me down. It is easier for me to raid the tree and fight you there fully prepped, than defend in that manner. I could not say this in char as an enemy, but I an here. You had great rp, though my chars fear of hte number five made me hate the blessings and you as there being five of you . You also fought harder than most of the tree. I give you more props than anyone else out there, you tried, and damned hard.
Also sorry about your last day. I saw you as no longer on so went to raid the tree, didnt know it was only a disconnect. Also sorry grija tried to use you as a means to character assassinate me with that log.
p.s. your char was not a failed experiment, just one tactic change and you would have wrecked my char, I saw him as THE deadliest threat.
hugs and good job, and sorry that things did end up as it had. I felt really bad rl but in the case we were enemies.

Ardish - in rl I am a cripple. I get paid pretty much to be not part of society. Except for a monthly chiro appt, I have nothing but time, so yeah I can play forever. As noted with bethanny and more chars. That was the last notable char that I played a long time under. Yeah alot of people cant compete with that. Most actually. though many still play for 8 hours or more in a day. I know it was frustrating on your end.
A thing though is that with stoneskin/shield/aura/haste the pets were nothing to fear, a druid can easily do hit and run with all expectations of getting out with armor of thorns. I had no way to lag you, but just.. didnt try. Fighting you WAS easier at the tree, again with being more protected, but if it meant to where it was a waste of time I would have been less offensive. But you didnt try, so was not much of a point in me stopping from keeping the fetish as I had.
I did love your char, and loved calling you radishes, even if it meant calling me quincy, I can understand your aggrivation. You are still a good char and still out there. Take care man and things will improve for the tree with the territorial cat no longer slobbering on the fetish

Harbinger - pagan spirit of the one. Anything complex and long for my char was something he always fumbled with, as well as the number five with his phobia. Kept waiting for you to snap at my char but never happened considering i mangled that so much . Most of the times you died was alot of it bad timing. You came down into my guards and me being out of camo from the tree or osmething of that nature. Even with 3 people of the tree online for some reason your timing was the worst (especially that day you walked down from huntress into me and army, died, then lunakai came, and died after, then went for the sunwarden and continued.. just.. bad timing). I really love your char and loved him with bethanny. Got the sense though you did not wish to interact with my char much so I didnt press. Still love the char and keep trucking.

Pinga - great forms. Good tactics with them too and leaving me unable to hunt you while marked, while trying to keep you from the fetish. If you were more present I would probably have laxxed on the taking of the fetish but you could not be. The reason being is you could easily retrieve given a bit of time, no matter manacles or axe kicking. Even if I could take it, it had just meant nothing in the end. Thats just a playtime issue. I thought you always did well, though interactions were a bit rough with the whole being in form thing We did have some banter, and I loved your char.

gwildaththea - I spoke to ardish in regards to renize situation, and yeah considering your horrid complaining of troupe people having great gear, and complaining to ardish of wanting renize's things, and him killing renize to give you the gifts of his armors, I saw it as little more than you wanting another lightwalkers gear and having him killed for it. I treated you like crap, and I saw you as crap. Please dont complain of inn people having good gear and not fighting, when you do almost nothing yourself. Okay? I mocked you alot because of it, and it was well deserved.

Lhotki - I do not think you used instincts much. With sanc / giant resist and the preps you should have been alot tougher, but in those situations you did not try to gather them and be beastly it looked like. You did at the end raid with a dwarf and duergar. In char and in game I did not call you out on it, because tree still needed alot of help, but from an ooc standpoint, to see you rather do that than try to have your char be a powerhouse and gather preps you rank far at the bottom of the totem pole for outlanders in the ability / willingness to try category, under all conditions.

Preemar - You are one of the up and comming outlanders, and already leaving a mark. You know how to control and use your forms, and you do a dang good job. I am already voting for you as nightreaver. The whole alligator / hare thing meant speaking to you was a bit futile in most cases, so I did not try much, but you had a presence the tree needed. Keep trucking and I hope things are good for you.

Traethen - You know, despite complaints I rarely took anything from a corpse unless I needed it, or one of the magistrates had immediate need for eq. I did take a few pieces of eq from you, and went to give replacements. You didnt want them, so I left them at the signpost in emerald forest just in case you wanted them. Overall you would have lost 100 hp in the exchange but still been fully eq'd. You were never full looted and did not lose much, but ice cold brooches were a sore need for one of my mages, as well as a few other pieces. If it got to the point you were really trying hard for the cabal like ilztyr had, would never have taken more, like hte eagle staff of ilztyr, wasnt even gonna touch it, and did not. I respect people that try and go out of my way to see them in good position.
Sorry that left a bad taste in your mouth but its only eq. I come from a time of each death was most likely a full loot, especially with lowbies around on a game of over 100 players, where alot of times depending on where I died, all I did was go to red dragon and spitfire twice and called myself good. Losing things is often just a matter of course. Also you stepped into a situation at the village where a villager stripped an empirial, and then the empirial stripped you to have eq, and you deleted over it. Gear comes and goes, get used to that or in this game you will always be bitter.

Bilgritik - When you lost stuff you did keep swinging, props to you for that you lost alot of great stuff to the empirials when you died. Later I would take the belt and use it -nice belt- but you kept trucking, but then with just a few deaths you gave up everything. Yeah alot of it was rl and really not feeling the char anymore, so I dont have much to comment on. We did not interact much, just wanted to say you did not act like the general whiner on the mud, I did want to mention that, and you did go out of the way to try. (I do not think you also used your instints, would have made you much tougher too.)

Koh - do understand your frustration a bit, but please keep in mind your time to play there is about.. 5-10 people max online, there is not much room to shine, or have alot of rp interactions. I had seen you personally only that once. I woke up in an extreme amount of pain and had a need to murder someone. We didnt have the scales, and you were the defender. sorry on that . I am also sorry, but your situation was for the most part, with not having much for opportunities to shine, and that was it. Did not help that I was not able to interact with you also to know your char more my char would have loved the stories of your demonic sides. Too late for my logins Anyway, things would be better if you had different login times for you in that nature, and I am sorry this was a bad experience for you.

ummm
IMMORTALS OF OUTLANDERS :
Tanzer - pretty sure you knew one of my previous chars since he was an outlander too, and on all the time too . Did not stop me interacting with you, just like my char tried to do with everyone, and I enjoyed it. I was not around when you were big in the tree and had the quest form, I had taken a break after domond and you had not had it yet. And with domond your lion ate me, just bad that there was others at times with me and turned out to be the bad end for you. You DO though have a solid presence, are willling to interact and I saw you as nothing but wonderful as an imm, and despite certain setbacks when you were lvling up, you were always one showing strength. Well done and happy to have met you as a player to a player.

Drehir - I tend to leave imms alone. Largely without having a religion with them before I do not know how things would turn out even speaking to them. Take zulghinlour for example, I helped a person by walking them to their shrine once and it was something I would never repeat again, nor have a char that followed him, though I can understand the mindset of the imm. But it also left me wary of say, deormdal where I showed a person his shrine that was a nexan and really needing him it seemed like, I expected a slay or things, so some things I do get hesitant with. You started the interactions between my char and yours, and I absolutely loved it. Though oddly enough came from me pissing on your spiders to mark them as mine I look back to the interactions and wonder what it would have been like if I had abandoned my galadon and embraced the feral side (would have been much less of a headache than dealing with umiron) and going that route. You were a solid influence, you were nothing but wonderful, and I hope that one conversation I had with you really explained why I made the decision I had, and why when I died of age, I wanted you to have my final breath, and my tying in to death as the final justice of having lived.
Did not turn out that way, not after chewing umiron out for the crap he pulled, sorry. Since I knew I was going to leave the game again, and likely for good, I wanted that part to be in raltevio's shrine. He has always been my favorite imm, and since I never did have a follower of his, or do more with him, it was an expression that I wanted to give as a thanks for him personally.
But thank you for the interactions. It was wonderful.

This is all I can think of for the tree, anyone I missed please post and I will post back.

Assassins can lag through armor of thorns.

One of my assassins dueled with a Druid and whilst my first double spin kick was blocked by armor of thorns my second wasn't, and I seem to recall reviewing the log to check whether a tick had passed and concluding it hadn't. Very long time ago but it was a notable moment in my cf history for rp reasons too.

Qinsa, your ground game and your mobs definitely had me at a disadvantage even if a pixie I had with. And yes, a lot of bad timing on my part. A lot of times, I lost track of you because I couldn't always see you which made it frustrating trying to carry a conversation. So you were Bethanny..interesting. Wish he had more time to discuss things, the prospect of babies was starting to warm upon me.

*A neutral someone* showed up one day out of the blue and dropped a hummingbird pendant on me without any comment. I had no idea who it belonged to and didn't think to ask. Gave my thanks and wore it.

Then the next day or a day or two after some herald bard (definitely not High Elf) rather rudely demanded to have it because "it was Renize's." Now, if you did understand RP and what a High Elf would do in that situation, the answer is rather clear. Neither the bard in question nor the Heralds as a whole "deserve" to have anything, much less a rare piece just for demanding, especially if you're a "lesser" race.

Now, if Renize herself or an actual High Elf of the herald asked me about it with appropriate RP attached, of course I'd give it back, but that never happened.

That's beyond the view that my character holds that the Heralds are a rather misguided bunch and are a general waste of space in Thar-Eris. They could have applied their skills and knowledge to promoting Life and fighting the evils of the world, but instead they drink themselves to death in the inn, which doesn't even have a single wild room inside. Thus my *character's* view that they shouldn't hold valuable things.

And hypocritical to boot. You're the most apathetic goodie I've ever seen and now you chastise Heralds for not participating enough in the world's life? Damn I wish Kowelu was still around to punch you in the face.

Realize that from the outside your character looks exactly like that you describe. Lazy do-nothing who could have done so much good to the world, get involved in stuff but instead pretty much just loiters around, never participates in raids and snorts at "lesser people" or annoys them with obnoxious talk.

For all his flaws I liked Bilgritik so much more. IC because he tried to find common ground, talk things out, challenge my views instead of being a pitiful, spineless amoeba of a sunwarden. OOC because for all his controversy at least he created conflict, drama, story. You? Maybe you roleplayed, but AT people, not WITH them.

Laeden wasn't around for your gear conflict, but I do wonder if "appropriate RP attached" meant singing in gibberish? No thanks.

gr

(Didn't mean to hijack the thread and this is my last response as it devolves into the discussion of my character and not Qinsa.)

My character would never attack a goodie provost just because he's a provost, the goodie part and the "life" part actually count for something.

My character has a very complicated and nuanced set of views about raiding spire, in the first part of life outright refusing to raid spire even when having superior numbers and assured success.

FWIW, my raid, retrieval and PK numbers are all higher than Bilgritik's with pretty much the same hours.

"Appropriate RP" means act as your character would.

Please feel free to discuss further IC or on my death thread.

I'm just feeding you your own medicine.

>"Appropriate RP" means act as your character would.
Maybe some Herald bard insulted you, what makes you think they weren't acting as their character would?

And Qinsa treating you like crap because he thought that you slighted someone he cared about? He was acting as his character would.

And I'm not suggesting you should have attacked me. I'm saying all I saw about your character was that you came into the Inn, shouted some gibberish and left. Likely you had an IC reason to avoid interacting with me, or Heralds. Just don't complain when it bites you back in the form of people not valuing you.

>Drehir - I tend to leave imms alone. Largely without having a
>religion with them before I do not know how things would turn
>out even speaking to them. Take zulghinlour for example, I
>helped a person by walking them to their shrine once and it
>was something I would never repeat again, nor have a char that
>followed him, though I can understand the mindset of the imm.
>But it also left me wary of say, deormdal where I showed a
>person his shrine that was a nexan and really needing him it
>seemed like, I expected a slay or things, so some things I do
>get hesitant with. You started the interactions between my
>char and yours, and I absolutely loved it. Though oddly enough
>came from me pissing on your spiders to mark them as mine I
>look back to the interactions and wonder what it would have
>been like if I had abandoned my galadon and embraced the feral
>side (would have been much less of a headache than dealing
>with umiron) and going that route. You were a solid influence,
>you were nothing but wonderful, and I hope that one
>conversation I had with you really explained why I made the
>decision I had, and why when I died of age, I wanted you to
>have my final breath, and my tying in to death as the final
>justice of having lived.
>Did not turn out that way, not after chewing umiron out for
>the crap he pulled, sorry. Since I knew I was going to leave
>the game again, and likely for good, I wanted that part to be
>in raltevio's shrine. He has always been my favorite imm, and
>since I never did have a follower of his, or do more with him,
>it was an expression that I wanted to give as a thanks for him
>personally.
>But thank you for the interactions. It was wonderful.

All I was doing was opening an opportunity. I'm glad you realized that because I wasn't entirely sure you did. What is truly unfortunate is that you did not use the situation with chewing out Umiron IC as an opportunity to take this route. Going off on a cabal imm like that is really not a means to stay in ANY cabal, fwiw. And the staff deserves better than that, regardless of how you feel you were wronged. (No, I'm not going to discuss that part further.) I have to say I'm pretty disappointed at the end of the character. It seemed interesting up until then. Good luck with your next.

All I was doing was opening an opportunity. I'm glad you realized that because I wasn't entirely sure you did. What is truly unfortunate is that you did not use the situation with chewing out Umiron IC as an opportunity to take this route. Going off on a cabal imm like that is really not a means to stay in ANY cabal, fwiw. And the staff deserves better than that, regardless of how you feel you were wronged. (No, I'm not going to discuss that part further.) I have to say I'm pretty disappointed at the end of the character. It seemed interesting up until then. Good luck with your next.

I did understand, and believe me I was grateful for it. The situation with umiron was far reaching though. Never once answering a prayer even when he was known to be online right then. He was a dormant imm, that ended up having to have another imm watch it. That imm using the executioner to speak with, and umiron, the last one, completely contradicting the other imm, and not only not speaking with my char his entire life, not speaking with the imm about what was doing on, (afterwards justifying it all as being a dormant imm) speaking down at me like he did. That note wasnt ic, it was ooc, and at that point I had had enough, and was going to remove myself if he wasnt, and delete anyway. I have just had.. enough.
I cant justify completely switching my char to go that route, and abandoning my galadon. He fought for it, claimed it, and it was his. Even for opportunity presented by you, it would mean I completely abandon the foundation of the character, and I cant do that. Thats what I was trying to express in that last conversation.
I cant even with leaving the spire, because my character saw the spire as someone elses territory I was only watching over, his territory was still galadon. I am bound by that per my own in character ways.

I also saw it, that as a player, and someone watching over a cabal, that the cabal imm would spend a few minutes out of his busy life to speak of a problem. That imm never did. Not one time. I have a copy of his note and my response to him.
As a player on this game, I saw him completely and massively over the line on how he was treating me, on completely ignoring what was going on and ignoring the imm that was watching over the cabal doing what he can.
I do not regret what I wrote to umiron. I have no shame and guilt in it. I would do it again in a heartbeat.
But even at this point no, I couldnt abandon my character. I would rather just leave the game entirely, and that is what I did.

I'm not sure why you are still explaining yourself. I already said I was disappointed. No matter how you try to frame it, it does not take partial blame off you. Even if the staff was 100% wrong (obviously being 100% wrong is not realistic), it does not excuse how you were acting. That you have no guilt of how you were acting just tells me how little I should care about your choice. I'd rather have players who can treat others with respect and have mature conversations about problems or miscommunication. It may seem cold, but don't let the door hit you.

I really liked this character and I know you were driving the playerbase crazy, but I was so far removed from all of that that all I saw was a very entertaining, engaging character who never ran out of things to talk about.

I greatly enjoyed our chats, and I have to say that I'm quite glad I didn't have to deal with you when I was Nightreaver.

The fact that you were this controversial pretty much proves that the character was a success. I mean, there are people actually complaining about you constantly having the fetish. As if there was just nothing they could do about it! Lol. How about set a trap, or simply defend your item? The idea that someone from an enemy cabal should 'think of the fun of their enemies' is down right stupid. And this is coming from someone who just finished playing a Nexan invoker not too long ago, so I know how annoying it can be to log in without your item and there be basically nothing u can do about it for a while. Still, I didn't curse the village for not letting me get my item back. Ridiculous.

The only thing that rubbed me the wrong way was when you actually seemed surprised to get full looted. Dude, you were DECKED! Of course you're gonna get full looted. I've played my share of characters that go a long time without dieing and gather a nice set. I almost always expect to lose a lot if not all when the time comes. I just don't get the idea that you somehow deserve the gear, or not to be full looted in such situations. You had a lot of people gunning for you... It was inevitable, and I don't think u handled it very well. Other than that, fantastic job! You made life hell for criminals and your enemies. What more could u ask for from a magistrate?

P.s. I love just how many outlanders, that I haven't seen in a while, suddenly find time to play again. Absolutely hilarious. GLWYN.

This is a game. A game, played for fun. Everyone would be a hell of a lot happier if folks just remembered that.

If you go out of your way to be a #### to other people, that makes you a ####.

i will respond to before I take a break. I have no idea who you are, but losing the gear didnt bother me. When I died again with a few pieces, didnt bother me. Izqi's corpse regeared me, and the wood elf villager regeared me a bit better.
I was never surprised to be full looted. That decked I DID expect it. I have no idea who you are or why you would even think this.
I mentioned in the first post dealing with outlanders, I played during a time full looting was for the most part rampant. Depending on who was near, or lowbies, not even bothering to return to corpses, just red dragon and spitfire and calling THAT geared. Eq has never bothered me.

Did not think I handled it very well.. I do not believe you had any clue in the matter. At all. With the words between myself and annkhu after made vindicator and we were speaking about the declaration of war, he had brought up the mask, and I had stated armorment should not be a factor in that decision.
Reason being, armor didnt matter to me.
If you could possibly, at all, say where you even got that from? Heh.

On the other thing, from as far back as istendil (imm char), a person I loved to hate, he once made a comment that people will accuse you of anything, make drama over, and whine just because you are powerful. I agree with him. It goes for any situation though not just powerful chars. If you are online more than a few hours you 'never sleep'. If your char has been around a while, it is 'when will you finally age die'. If it is that you have nice gear, as lhotki/thelathelao would call you 'gear locker', or other names like hoarder. If you do not die much, it must be because you never take chances!
These people do not see me charging four people in a dragon lair. Solo raiding for the fetish through two people, nothing. It gives them something to whine about for their ego. There are people that will not try to fight, will not prep, will not do anything, and justify it as 'this guy cant be taken down' when in fact, in many cases my number was had except for luck how things turned out, or the right tactic was just not used as in myriani's case during retrievals.

Alot of the great players are gone, but unfortunately, the amount of whiny characters to great characters is looking to show a high amount of whiney, with little great anymore.

All of this is matter of course for a game. And I am not playing anymore, but likely alot of outlanders suddenly have time again to play

You were a mixed bag for me. I always enjoyed talking to you in person, but on the occasions that I snooped you I saw some unsporting behavior. Personally, I don't care about that stuff, I spent my first 5 years in CF getting ground into dust by anyone with a clue, but I suspect other players will dislike you for it.

With respect to the character, overall I enjoyed it, and you have the ability to add a lot to the game. You should try to keep out-of-character and in-character stuff separate though.

I hope all's well at home etc., maybe we'll see you again some time. Either way, all the best.

Ralt.

The unsportsman like behavior makes me believe you started snooping me later on, or in some cases like gwildaththea, whom I did not respect at all with having another lightwalker get killed so gwild could have eq. To the village / gwild I was unsportsman to, but both not without cause.

I will explain the mess here, and later on when i get to umiron and his.. will just get to it later.

I knew thelathelao and lhotki were the same people, due to words he had used to insult my char. Insults like 'gear locker' and 'hoarder' and other general bs. The same he did on forums accusing me of hardcre looting etc, though as lhotki never once took a thing in his corpse, was another magistrate, yet I was the one to blame . Thelath whined like everything else, because he was confiscated via cabal power, lost his weapons, and made the same threats / accusations as he had with lhotki.
Moving on, when he was in the level 30's, thelathelao told me he would start a war between the village and spire. There was no reason for it, other than for his past char, and wanting the entire village against me, using a cabal that had people in it for his own private little wants. I did make a mistake at this point, but after hearing threats from people all the way at level 1, just tend to ignore them.
(as an aside, also quoting istendil (imm char), is people would come up to him, lowbie paladins, and spit on him. Never mind that he was literally the essence of evil and most powerful person in the world, as an action that they should literally piss themselves in fear being that horridly weak compared to him as a lowbie, most often they were doing it just to vent out some frustrations). That was much of how it was explained to me, and still much how I view it. A frustrated person, will let it slide.

There was a person named grija that was a magistrate, kept violating the book of 'off duty magistrates' over and over inside the village, INSIde the village while running to empires side, just to hunt villagers in a group, and swearing he would be vindicator. Basically a big mess, but no amount of talking to him would help. Eventually kicked grija from tribunal, but thelathelao as he levelled up some did go after grija. Not yet hunted by battle but to me, grija deserved the whoopin he was gettin. I did though have to do my job, which left the duergar confiscated a few times. Never took more than that. Not even after when thelath killed grija and he stripped grija, I treated it as grija got what he deserved.

I still had ignored what thelath had said before.
After thelath became a hero he completely changed himself. He would log on and go straight after qinsa, or if he was on, straight after annkhu, for no reason other than getting a warrant from what it looked like (attack and run immediate, or strip and run, and with no huge deathblows is gone as fast as he can) and he would run right to the village. Later he would start running to water a bit but usually died there too. Lhotki was a bad player, thelath was a bad player with deathblow and thats all that fighting him really amounted to.

When I went after him and killed him at the village though, he started throwing huge whining fests about being killed in the village, while he was a criminal, to a magistrate, about how the sacred destructor was harmed. He is only fighting the good fight etc et al, though he mainly only focused on fighting me / the spire captain and for the scales, and annkhu. Thelathelao had told me again he would make the village have a war against me and me attacking him at the village was one way he was doing it. Was never a situation of in char thing with him.

At this point I sent my first pray about this situation to umiron. A mistake considering umirons attitude of im dormant, if im online that means I will just ignore everything anyway attitude. It was a mistake praying to him I know, but I felt the village was fine on its regards. I did start speaking to Sekope a bit on his actions and shortly after with llathe. Sekope ended up dying before things went to a head but as it were. Llathes attitude, even up to and including trying to raid the scales being against their own policy and grounds for removal, was just.. he wanted to ignore everything. Screw qinsa he wasnt listening to anything, and being a complete butt about it.
I am also surprised jormyr never did anything. Using a cabal to have a personal war you cant fight is a big nono to me when I read the tablets. Others can see things differently, but jormyr in this instsance, was a big letdown that he even let this crap continue while he was an active imm.
To say even further, I have taken whiney butts like this to the circle of riites. The village is a symbol of strength and courage, not... anything of whining and complaining. I have also when it comes down to it, removed people from the cabal that wanted to constantly write notes complaining. The village speaks with its weapons, and the leadership when it comes to diplomacy, are the ones to speak. To say one thing fine, to do it over and over again is another. Even as provost of the spire, one did write to the village, and we spoke about it.
The village, was a train wreck just letting one person whine and complain so much that he was literally having his way, while getting away with breaking the rules of the current drillmaster, and noone cared. I had expected the issue to be resolved internally in that. To my char he felt betrayed by the village, and badly mistreated especially by llathe that just wanted to completely ignore everything.

Here is where I did 'out of character'. I waited weeks before starting to fight back with the village, instead of after the first time captain was struck and thelath went inside the spire to start raiding. I did that hoping umiron would speak to me / village would sort its bad egg out.
None happened. My char was territorial, the moment war was on its steps, was the time I should have started killing villagers. It was to me though, an ooc situation that needed addressed by the imms and the village should not suffer for it, so I did not do as my character should have. That is the time I did not act in character as I should have. Where you state to keep ooc and ic different, this is where it is, and I had done so.

Thelath was quickly con dying himself, and to him was easy to see wasnt mattering, the only goal for the char was to start the war. Umiron was still ignoring having a clue about anything in the world. The village was still letting thelath literally run rampant over its own rules. I said screw it, and started going to the village, and fighting villagers that were not criminals. They declared their war, (not official from llath, but villagers had declared it irregardless) and my char was in another war to stomp down, as he was supposed to.
So then if the codex or key was in the village, they were going to face me. I still did not go hard at it yet.

Kalvin was thelaths lapdog. As soon as he logged on he went right to thelath and often tried for the scales or to take me down together, or annkhu. One time they managed to get me down, on pure cccident of myself. I deserved the death and then they stripped me. It was a situation that I had never before done anything other than confiscate a villager, but they went out of their way to take everything but a few pieces. To me, considering the other stuff, I saw him as nothing more than trying to be vindictive ooc, especially how he and kalvin gloated over the mask )making me laugh) but dang they would not SHUT UP about it for a while.

I treated it as the village wanted the war, my char was fighting back. They also wanted a stripping war. So izqi when he died i had four pieces of gear? izqi rearmed me for all except fela things. No I did not stop there. Every villager considering the massive disrespect they showed my char, for the way their war they wanted, every one of them was being stripped. Llathe had the nerve to say he was always respectful of his enemies, though he was never respectful of my char. Smirk.

Village was the only people my char had taken many items from, and yes I was taking everything. To name the war they wanted in that manner, they had gotten it. To treat my char like they had, they had gotten it. For thelath, he made a char to make a war with the spire due to a past char, and the village was stupid enough to fight his war. This is the mess that the village was, how things came to be.

I had ended up writing you about the situation, not in this detail because of how awkward it is for me to write and try to be precise with my words, but then later another immortal spoke to me about what I had written to you Raltevio.

The imm said a person making a char specifically to cause a war with the spire was not ooc, it was ic. After the imm said that I really dont recall much of the conversation, but it was nearly the first thing he said, and I pretty much shut him off from there. There is no justification for a person to make a char based off interactions from a past char, to throw a cabal into a war with someone it doesnt have a war with, specifically due to him wanting it. That is not in character to me. The imm rules in this though. It was a factor in me leaving, though umirons crap at the end is why I am no longer playing the game.

I did do everything in character, except waiting on fighting back on the villages war with the spire. I did seperate the ic from the ooc also, trying to get umirons to try and actually speak.

I do admit again I should have tried to speak to all imms, instead of the one for the spire, though I saw this as affecting the spire and village, and had trustted the village to jormyr and the villagers. All of those were bad choices for me and did help this go that far. I do admit that, but bearing on my standpoint, what else could I have done different? Umiron wanting to ignor everything, llathe wanting to ignore everything. Jormyr letting a person run rampant in his cabal doing much of what a villager should not have been doing. Where could I have gone from there? As a player I literally bent over backwards to be nice, I went the imm route. What else?

This is the entirety of everything that happened with the village that I can think of, everything to the detail, and how things came to be presently.
Ooc to me its just another war. They wanted it, they wanted it to be a stripping war, they got it, Handled it that way in character, because all of it was in character excelt thelath.
So when you saw me being unsportsman, I was just doing the same to them as was done to me. The only difference is, I dont need a piece of gear to kill. Just grab a few preps and I am game, and wont even assassinate. Turns out to have been a bit much rougher on them though.

Anyway, so you understand that situation, why I had done what I had, why I wanted so long instead of doing as my character should have done, and why I treated the village so bad, is all in that little cluster of crap.

Now for the actual goodbye
You were easily my favorite imm. I made excuses just to interact with you, even when I was a poet, my char was a wight and was all about destruction, because you were completely and totally awesome. I loved your stories. Loved seeing the stuff you put in your shrine, everything. I had loved you every more as bethanny. You always took time just to interact with me and you know me. I will sit in one spot on the high road and just talk to everyone in the game because I love the interactions, different personas people make, ild the pregnant warrior poet, I just love what people make with their chars, and loved sitting there pissing on people and seeing their reaction, etc et al. Telling stories of the boy that pissed on the little girl to keep her safe, and hte girl loving it, with the boy taking after me, etc. It was all, a blast. So yeah, with your imm as it is, I just soaked you up like a sponge and loved it, with every char. You touch someones mortal char once, and you own a part of them for every character after it seems like. That is how wonderful you are to this game and are as a person. So that is why I did what I had. Going out the way I had, to be buried in your shrine etc, having it all literally be about you, is to show you that I am very grateful for all the stories, all the talks, everything, and to thank you.

A bit of clarity here - you pissed off Kalvin, who had gone out of his way to not take any action in protected cities, and warranted him for attacking you. The attack taking place out of town. Having been the player of at least two Provosts, and having drilled into Magistrates the concept of Jurisdiction, that's apparently been thrown out now.

This being after you made a point to attack villagers defending the village (i.e., me) when other cabals came.

In short, feel free and paint a portrait of innocence, but you know full well what you were doing. Of Kalvin's first three warrants, only the third was for actually breaking a law in a protected area, and that was for sitting at the captain while a ghost.

Thela must have been mentioning the mask, I think I only brought it up once.

Anyways, you were solid in your RP, I disagree with the direction you took the laws and the license you took with them. Basically, you wanted the freedom to warrant anyone you wanted to if they dared strike at you (i.e., you had lieutentants, or there was a criminal anywhere within the realms), then used your lieutenants to pummel them. And you made a point to strip everyone of everything, repeatedly. This in my mind makes you a net negative to CF as this character.

From my first characters in justice, to first leader under bria, all through the different forms of the tribunal beforehand, the rule of aiding the criminal was always the same, for those who could deal with criminals outside of the spire.
To note, as far as the laws, the provost has the right to interpret said laws.

To continue in this detail, hitrilipimi had marked me a criminal for aiding a criminal at the tree as bethanny. It was a very accurate mark and warranted. I did not complain, I was a habitual criminal anyway. I did so knowing I would likely be marked.
To dumb it down like this : was what I was doing, directly giving aid to a criminal. Yes it was. Marked earned? Yes it was.

Here is your situation. Provost attacks criminal with guards. You attack the provost, and are legsweeping him, while fighting the criminal. Did you aid the criminal directly, yes. Did criminal even live and get away because of you? Yes. Was warrant earned, yes. What you did though was complain about it, though you knowingly aided a criminal. You ranted and raved you were defending yourself, though you were never attacked. In this, I did not give a false warrant, nor in other situations.

The executioner had asked about maybe 5 or 6 days before umirons note of my warranting of criminals by aiding, and I explained it and why, and told to carry on, and that was the last of it, until umirons note. I do not know if it was umiron that had the executioner at that time or another imm, though from the next oddity makes me feel it was not umiron on a bit of time later.

But believe me kalvin you were not special. The last oooh 20 years of the game being like this makes this nothing new either. Speaking of your own provosts if you truly had them, gave you leeway to both have mercy, and interpret it differently. Does not make it wrong or right, only makes it irrelevant.

Also, you and thelathelao were striking the spire long before I even started retaliating, and hunting non criminal villagers (save one instance with dol). I had been trying to contact umiron and waiting to attack the village or take any steps considering the war that was wanted by said duergar (and you with you being attached to his hip).

For the last bit, no was not warranting everyone that struck at me, only if a criminal was there. I did have one accident where I struck you with guards. You lied your ass off saying no criminal was around, he was ducking in and out of the ruins, but I did forget to release both guards before I attacked you. That was an accident and I apologize for it. But I did warrant people that actively aided criminals (and only gave mercy to those that apologized for it, or were willing to learn from it).
So your last comment is a blatant lie on that one. Also not within the realms, they had to be within the same room. You also lied of the next commont of stripping everyone repeatedly. I used only confiscate unless there was something they had I wanted, or a magistrate had immediate need of, until you and thelath stripped me. You two were the ones that wanted treatment in this fashion, you got what you wanted in return. YOU and thelath were sripped repeatedly. Never stripped anyone else but villagers.

You are pathetic, whiney and a liar. Please dont post on my death thread until you will be honest about the things you have done.

But you're wrong on your interpretation of jurisdiction and the ####ing helpfile even says so. Please read 'Help Provost', for the love of god.

Really liked Qinsa up until the point that you started putting complete #### flags on people because it seemed like you got bored.

This is the reason IMMs should pay closer attention before leadering peeps and not just assume because they haven't done anything stupid and have tons of hours logged they'll be good leaders. Although please note if I had been leadered instead I wouldn't complain about such things. =) I did have 2 Tribs under you and I really liked the character, I was just sad you were so convinced you were right when you were dead ass wrong, even in the above explanation on several points of your personal view of the cabal.

You also full sac'd at least 5 people that I saw.

everyone I did so were villagers that I full sacced. Was earned. I was not ending on that until the village declared its war ended also. My goal was to kill all the whiney assholes off until the village was emptied, or they ended the war. Was working rather well also. the only one I liked in it was unfortunately also a casualty in it, but was a wonderful char to me. Happens when a cabal declares war against yours.

And no, was not bored with the char. I spent alot of time speaking to everyone I could in game, alot. I love rp, I love being goofy. I love seeing how people react to things I say. Aiding a criminal has always been this way. Personally with a smaller pbase you dont have the problems you did long ago so I dont mind it no longer being how it was. But when for 20 years aiding a criminal has always been the same, why suddenly complain about it?

And yes, please read help provost. Nowhere in it states anything that people seemeed wrong with the char.

From 'help Provost'

Often a Provost may be seen around Thera with an honor guard of lieutenants at
his or her side. However, the Provost is still off duty when outside of the
cities. Accordingly, it is NEVER illegal to attack the Provost outside of a
protected city, whether they have lieutenants with them or not.

---------

Note the always off duty when out of the city and it is never illegal to attack outside of town. You flagged people for attacking you out of town and claimed they were aiding criminals. You were off duty and had no jurisdiction to do so. Hence my post on officials when you didn't catch immediate correction for the behavior and were still doing it 3 weeks later after I had addressed it multiple times IC.

I have NEVER flagged someone for attacking "ME" outside of protected cities, only for aiding a criminal.

The situation at the empire, I attacked a criminal. Another villager attacked me. Criminal lived because of it and got away, while I was being leg-swept. That was direct aid to a criminal. If the criminal was not there and he attacked me that would have been fine and never would have warranted, but was not the situation.

Izqi used a song of sleeping to keep my guards from hitting a criminal. His intent was to attack me, but intent does not matter. He used an aoe sleep spell, in front of a criminal, keeping the criminal from harm. THAT was aiding a criminal. If the criminal was not standing right there in front of him, I would not have warranted him.

I warranted for aiding a criminal only if they were truly aiding a criminal, and I could justify it.

A provost is always off duty outside of protected cities, but using the guards to hunt a criminal is something they should be doing. Otherwise it is a situation that they should never have guards outside the city, just like every other magistrate that is off duty. Hunting of the criminal is something a provost should be doing, though not as affective as a vindicator (shackles) and have all powers of a vindicator but that one, as well has all the powers of a justiciar, to the event that all things in absense of the others the provost should investigate, and has to while there is not one appointed.
This in mind NO law is applicable except the one law that does not state within jurisdiction, and that is the law of aiding a criminal. The one law that has always been enforcable (for 20 years now) outside of a zone, being aiding of a criminal. (to which end, bearing the powers of a justiciar, and in absense of a justiciar having final say in an investigation, and the powers to do so, look under help justiciar, a person that can investigate any situation, no matter where it leads them).

A provost has specific responsibilities in the spire, and to a limited fashion in the absense of one or the other (justiciar and vindicator) has to deal with their roles as well by choice and ability, being less effective at both.

It is a catch 22 on that one, because yes, I should, in fact, as provost be investigating the aiding of a criminal, as it is a crime, that happened at a specific location, per investigation of a crime, under the responsibilities of justiciar, to which a provost has also, to follow especially in absebse of a justiciar.

That is how I see it. As per historically, there are logs of people for the history of qhcf showing people getting warranted for aiding a criminal outside of a protected city all the way up to hitrilipimi (though saw no logs of people complaining of laeden about it, dont know if he was provost long? Though told he was the same).
There was no reason for me to say okay, its outside of a city, feel free to aid a criminal. With the laws as it were, it should not be that a healer can stand just outside town, heal a criminal repeatedly, for that criminal to repeatedly attack magistrates. Aiding a criminal was there for a reason.

So do not sit here and tell me I was warranting people for attacking me. There are ALOT of people that attacked me, many while I had guards such as being on the way to take the fetish, that I never marked. Do not sit here on my death thread and sit here and try to justify what I could and could not do, despite the history of the game, despite that in fact due to position of provost and the powers they recieve, and the duties they have to perform in absense of justiciar and vindicator, that I was not justified in doing what I was supposed to be doing.

Many many times.

Having played a provost or three, and one of the more lethal ones:

It was drilled into me by the immortals running the cabal, and something that I drilled into every single magistrate when interviewing them. The concept of Jurisdiction. The laws only apply within the jurisdiction you have. The example I typically used:

Scenario 1 - You are a magistrate of Galadon. You are protecting the Spire against a warranted outlander. They flee to Galadon and a healer there heals them. Can you warrant them?

Scenario 2 - Same as above, but they flee to the Weald. Can you warrant them?

The answers are Yes and No respectively. This is because in the first case you have jurisdiction, and in the second you do not. It is the same thing with a provost and his guards, or a vindicator and his guards. If either chases a criminal outside of a city using their guards, the criminal and his friends are allowed to strike the provost, the vindicator, the guards, or do whatever. It's not a protected area, so the laws of the spire do not apply. Basically, if you can't stand in the location and give them a warrant, then you don't have jurisdiction to enforce laws there.

The logical extension of your view is that once a character is warranted and retreats to their cabal, anyone who defends that cabal should then be warranted.

That, and having known your character through a few iterations, I think you should have ben OE, not ON. OE uses the laws for their own advantage.

Oh, and yes, all these provosts I mentioned are from within the past 20 years, so I don't know quite what you're talking about when you speak of this being the case for decades. This is a new development from my own experience through at least a half dozen magistrates in the past decade.

By his logic he could flag all villagers who logged in because their presence thickens the veil and aids criminal villagers.

There are drawn lines and some #### is black and white instead of gray for a reason.

A simple magistrate has no powers, nothing to deal with criminals, has no ability to do anything outside of the spire and city they watch over, for the spire, for enforcing laws, or investigating. Using a simple magistrate as an example to compare to a provost is rather a large difference.

This is my last post till tonight, so later.

You being removed from that appointed position would show otherwise.

Your view is wrong, the immortals enforced it, buck up buttercup.

I agree Qinsa drew it so far it was boot-worthy. Flagging people for ranking with criminals, really?

You can justify flagging a healer who sits in the Weald healing criminals who then go rampage in the city. Because the criminals are in the city, and he's helping them commit more crime in the city even though he doesn't set foot in the city himself. Not every provost will agree but the line can be drawn there without anyone getting the boot.

But when you yourself are away from cities and you are attacked, no matter the reason (helping criminals or otherwise) you can not flag for it, never ever. Tribunal is not Arbiter.

No other provost other than Qinsa did it. And even if they did, it doesn't make it any less wrong.

FWIW I still liked him as a character. But those flags are pure griefing.

So. You going to Udgaard with shawtabies and guards, and me attacking you there. No criminal in site, just the wanted wight who happened to live in Udgaard. And I get warranted and killed for that. Because there's a criminal in the realms who you want to sit at the pit for.

That's not an abuse of your powers. Right?

Yes, you can justify that you were hunting a criminal. Except for a few things. That justification is BS according to pretty much everyone else on your death thread, including immortals and previous provosts. And there was no criminal in sight.

In my mind you were just being an a$$ to your fellow players there. I don't mind evil, I don't mind people who play to win. But beating on someone who you just killed not so long ago using some veiled pretense to give another character a warrant, then come back tranced and with five tough mobs to kill them and confiscate their weapons, expect some hard feelings.

At the end of the day anything that takes away from people's enjoyment playing the game is bad. And you made a distinct choice to play in a way that left a lot of people not enjoying things.

Knew funnyone was Llotki, pretty sure I know his current...

But never once got a funnyone vibe off Thelatheao.

gr

Calling me gear locker, and much of what he said to me I kinda noticed no rp at all from him. Ever. Most of it was just that. threats, insults, and saying he would start a war between the village and spire, only sometimes using his duergar accent.

You may have seen him differently, but it wasnt you that was the target of why he made the char to begin with

A couple of things I like to say:

1) I didn't create Thelathelao character base on a previous character that has anything to do with Qinsa or the Spire. Thelathelao was just the answer to an itch in playing CF, not a character built to take you down due to some personal agenda. If anything, I picked Duergar because I expected fights with Cae the Emperor. Though it is funny that you mentioned it, because in my written role, I was an abandoned toddler who was found and raised by a RETIRED VILLAGER. But this is merely a story line for the character to tell in the applicant interview.

2) Thelathelao is Chaotic with sphere Chaos. It does make me annoyed when you tell me to not to become a criminal as if that is a negative. Sure at times I become Wanted in the more untraditional way like being at the Captain too long, striking guards, and striking you, Annkhu, or the few magi in the city. Why do I strike you? Simply because you and Annkhu both striked at the massive giant. Why is it so hard for you to see that if you strike the massive giant, you will catch my attention, and the attention of anyone who the massive giant protects? The whole cabal hears the scream of the giant when you strike, hell even the battle applicants will hear it. What makes this deal a little different is that you choose to strike when only I hear it. Of course a few more got dragged in as you can see toward the end.

3) The notes, ah the notes, I do apologize that the notes were beginning to get out of hand at the end. But the first few notes were not what you call whining and complaining. It was an attempt to RP and if war is the end results, awesome. What made it start to fall apart is how you receive it. I just don't understand why do you think it is bad to start a war? I didn't pick the war on a newbie, I pick the war on the Spire because I figure you can handle it. I saw you have like 7 or 8 mean pets with you when you were at your best.

4) What causes war were your actions. You repeatedly strike at the Destructor. On the contrary from what you were thinking, I do not hide in the village... I baited you there. Do you see it? You obviously show no respect for the village and the presence of the Destructor, which is fine by me from an enemy standpoint. But what you can NOT seem to see is that if you strike at the Destructor or giant, you are like an enemy. The rest of the cabal will hear the screams and response accordingly. It is terrible RP to say, oh because he hunts criminals he can come in the village, kill the massive giant, and kill the criminal making a stand at the Destructor without any repercussions, because he was just doing his Provost duties; it was not raiding. Tell me the difference between 3 of you fighting me at the Destructor and 3 of the Empire fighting me at the Destructor? From what I have seen, their screams over the cabal channel are the same. So from my point of view, you don't get to walk away free while the Empire gets hunted down for doing exactly the same thing. No hard feelings but don't take it personally. It could have been alot more fun if you were also pressing for war on the Spire side because of Thelathelao's actions than trying to defending something you thought you needed to defend.

That's a wrap, see you in the fields.

So not thelatheao

Grija still plays.

Wew. Honestly, the circumstances surrounding everything aren't an issue for me. I know there are two sides to every story, and I saw the monster thread on Dios. You don't need to defend your actions to me or anything. I was just giving some feedback on perceived ways to improve etc.

As I said, I enjoyed Qinsa, much in the same way I enjoyed Bethanny. I know some folks probably dislike your style, or maybe see a different side of you. I find view inconsistent with my perception for whatever reason. Anyway, I'll be trying to figure out a way to give Qinsa a nod at some point.

(Did you find Bethanny's poem in the Villa by the way? It's in there if you didn't see it.)

yeah that was long, but it was a situation that had been going on for a long time. No didnt see bethanny's poem in the villa wish I had, but more reason for me to love the #### out of ya

As far as qinsa and the game, its a bit of a moot point. That imm that was taking over the executioner while umiron was dormant? Where is the imm now to repeat what he said? The day the executioner had stated the vindicator was the only one with the right to declare war, was the day I had taken the codex.

Alot of the anger at umiron was wanting to be a dormant imm, and never, ever checking in with apparently, the imms that was watching over things. Umiron willing to write a note, but never answer a prayer. Justification on his post because he is dormant, too much of a headache. Too much of a hassle. I'm just done raltevio.
But for what you have done, you, you are just wonderful. Thank you for everything.

I think your roleplay was great and you are very good at pk.

The only issue I have is when you make it not fun for your enemies by playing so often.

Ardish

The char was bad for the game overall. I doubt you had much fun sitting in Galadon next to the captain for hours on end, but to each their own. Roll something less cowardly and more challenging to play next time.

Yup, made me want to delete Callixa because of the bad taste it left in my mouth. F%%%er was friendly, then Empire declared war, and I didn't step in, just kept talking and trying to resolve it. Wake up one day and didn't see anyone so went looking in the mausoleum. Get hurt, and then tripped to death by Qinsa. Takes the bladesmasters gloves, fine.

Then I strike back at him in Udgaard when he goes there. He leaves, I get warranted. He comes back and kills me, taking all my weapons.

Nice char, glad you won CF there.

Was working with Gaspare IC to try and set something up to end the "war" but Imperials KEPT trying to kill/gang me.

That being said, Qinsa getting you re: Udgaard battle/Lieutenant rape is kinda bullcrap.

Sincerely. I'm leaving my city for a vacation, and the day I'm back you are deleting. Wtf! We had so much fun together. And you've been absolutely correct - the moment you would step out of the shadows in the city I'd try to put you to sleep.

We had very interesting friendly-foe relations, perfectly fitting the evil wight. I felt your fear, and I was very, very careful about you, knowing you would use any chance should I give it to you.

And I'm so pleased that my vile plan has worked, though I've missed it mostly...

Anyways, wonderful character and fun RP. GLWYN absolutely.

While you've started well, what you've come to eventually with your law enforcement polies was complete #### that turned people off the game.

Being a tribunal is a great responsibility, because you have the power to screw people up massively. And this power should not be abused regardless whatever RP or other reasons you have.

Perhaps I'm being somewhat bitter, but I've had three (!!!THREE!!!) different characters marked outside of the laws by you, which is an indicator of the scale of the problem that you were.

So overall, it's a pity you weren't booted earlier. That was ultimately an awful character.

Your RP for the most was pretty solid. A few leaks here and there. You were good for Tribunal I'm sure, bringing in a massive powerswing. But you were Horrible for the game as a whole. With great power, comes great responsibity peter. You had that power and you sucked the life out of most anyones fun...

This was supposed to be under the death thread.... Sorry my russian friend. Not aimed at you.

Dude. Seriously.
I know you probably felt about as bad as an A-P after losing a big unholy. But think of all the ways to play things out that you missed.

And it's not like you lost all of your power. Still an OP assassin. You can make do with worse circumstances than these, and still be the better for it.

Aerafr, i love your char, but I have no idea what you are talking about in your post.

I lost no power, I was uninducted. I deserved it by chewing umiron out a bit in a note. After all is said and done, I would do it again.

But anyway, I already read your other responses and I just don't get why you deleted. Since you say you don't care about gear and powers and whatnot.

P.S. Sorry for that steak incident. Did what my character would do, out of his misperception, IC.

and now I am hungry. I dont care about the steak incident my char had to though. I was laughing in my chair in rl. Ic though it did prevent an investigation, so I had to at least speak about it.

The situation of my uninduction was long reaching, but all dealt specifically with umiron. The final straw was this. A situation happened before where I took the codex during the war against the empire after how many prayers? looking for umiron and his wants etc, because I knew I could not as provost declare war. At the time only knew I had a cabal with no imm, no direction, and it facing a war from an entity.
After I took the codex, and after defending it a while, an imm took over the executioner and spoken to me about having taken the codex, and told me 'only' the vindicator had the right to declare war. It was not misheard.

A bit later in life with the village situation umiron actually finally answered a note, though I had written it to all immortals, asking that dealing with the village war, once annkhu writes the note that we are in war, is it okay to use guards to take their item of power, though they are not outlanders. Wanting to define what I can and cant do, umiron is MUCH different than astein and others (astein once got on me for giving lenience, in an aiding acriminal situation. hah!)

This is the note he wrote me.

From : Umiron
To : Qinsa
Subject: RE: War

Qinsa,

The Vindicator does not have the authority to declare war. It is her job to
pursue criminals, and that is all. Furthermore, as you should be well aware,
only a Vindicator may take the sacred item of another cabal. You may not,
ever, and so your query as to using guards is unnecessary.

Your squabbles are interfering with your work and proving to be a distraction
for your Magistrates. I suggest you end this pointless feud soon, before
you do more harm to your Spire. Fix all of this or I will find someone who
will. I refer you to our library for any further clarify you might seek.

This is different from what the other imm had said speaking through the executioner. To me it was very obvious not only did he not speak to the imm that WAS watching the cabal while he was dormant, with the second part, he had not a freakin CLUE what was going on, and I had been praying to him for a few weeks about it, while he was busy ignoring it.
I had had it. At this point I was going to delete my character after showing the guy around the spire, but for the attitude he had, and his blatant want of having complete ignorance, this is what I wrote him.

From : Qinsa Rhee
To : umiron immortal
Subject: Now hold up.

You cant just sit here and have the executioner say, or some imm, that the vindicator declares wars, and has the only power
then turn around and write a note like THIS of all things, and say the vindicator does not have that power.
You are for the most part dormant with little information on what is going on or has, with having other imms
having to answer things for you while you arent on, and in the meantime dont treat me with enough respect to speak
to me like I am a human ####ing being. Dont do this like that to me Umiron I dont you.

In your note to me you just wrote, and then had the nerve not to speak to me on the prayer, you threatened to remove me
as provost, I dont think you even know that the village declared war on us. And yes, you already know that my char has
no tolerance of war and fights back. My char has always been this way and you have never had a problem, or in the least
have always been dormant for it. Speak to me. Like a person. Have that respect for me like I have tried for you.

Dont threaten to remove my position as provost just because from what it seems like you dont know the things that have happened or
what the executioner has already said for us.


That was the note I wrote back. I deserved to be removed from the cabal, but I had enough of a dormant imm not answering prayers, not knowing what is going on, wanting to have an attitude of 'i dont wanna know anything' and completely ignoring the imms that are watching the cabal in his absense. Umiron was why the deletion happened. In all of it, considering his attitude, I would have written it again.

I take it that you post these notes because you think that they prove you right, not wrong.

Man, this is actually stupifying because the whole story (and especially the notes you posted) shows what an amazingly stupid dung hole you are. I almost feel sorry for the immortal who has given you leader spot, because he definitely feels ashamed now, saying something like "Guys, sorry, I should've known better, considering Jermet's role entries" on the imm channel.

as Greek or Roman gods who are flawed and may be petty, vain, and irrational, but with the ability to crush you like a bug. They are not a Judeo/Christian type God who is thought to be omnipotent and flawless. It is also good to keep in mind CF gods are not real gods, but someone pretending to be that have other things going on in their lives as well, and just roll with it.

You're kind of a dumb ass for squandering it.

Most IMMs would have just demoted/uninducted you the first time you demonstrated you had no clue how Tribunal works, much less how to be a decent Provost.

Very smart, helpful, always roleplaying and extremelly good at pk.

Two things:

1) I understand you wanted me to be more involved in (what I saw as) the massive mess you were making, but I marked myself dormant quite a while ago and I'm only willing to feel so bad about not being available IC at that point.

2) No matter how grouchy you the player get about that or Qinsa the character gets about that, "chewing < any god's > ass out" IC is never, ever going to have a positive outcome for a mortal. You 100% put Umiron in a "Why I oughta ..." position with regard to Qinsa (at a time when he was being incredibly lenient with you, no less) and it ended about as well as you or anyone else should've expected.

GLWYN.

EDIT: Holy #### it's impossible to make these forums display literal square brackets.

[]

edit: Aha! Totally legit solution.