Thu May 31 15:19:41 2012

At 6 o'clock AM, Day of the Moon, 7th of the Month of the Heat
on the Theran calendar Namric perished, never to return.

In the last week I fought 6 different Enemies with quest skills. One of them, Clahier's quest angel, hits for DEMOLISHES through resist + bard resist. Later that night I got to fight Nabighah's fiendish ice devil. You can imagine how that went as well.

CF has become very unbalanced with so many characters with Role Contest rewards in play. Every character I play winds up fighting 5 or more foes with quest abilities/forms/skills/spells. The game isn't balanced anymore and I don't know how anyone can say it is. I am not going to go so far as to say "Its all Rayihn's fault" because I don't believe that. But I do believe that the imm rewards in general are ridiculously out of control.

Props to any players out there trucking alone with just their normal skills and no OOC allies.

Kelarin not sure how you got into the village without a mage kill. If I was a Russian conspiracy theorist I'd point out that it was probably because you play a Rayihn follower with a lastname and tattoo though. It was fun travelling with you but it did seem odd you seemed to log in a lot right after I did.

Rathmuk not sure how you had a full hero suit of gear at level 6 but yay for you. You seemed pretty cool.

Those are pretty much the only villagers I saw with any consistency or travelled with. Lower level villagers all seemed pretty cool but if I was that cloud ranger villager I'd think twice before attacking Clahier with her angel.

Enemies were generally pretty cool. Lzensteit talked a lot of #### but definitely backed it up; She owned me repeatedly, no matter what tactics I did. Duo'ing and spamming me with tells when I can't ignore you however is insanely lame. Same can be said for Majra who did the exact same thing from camo.

Iussuni...you pulled imho a griefer move and I legitimately considered fulling you down to the pies when I got you on eastern but then I figured that would make me just as weak so all I took were your orb and medallion which I gave both to Tahren.

All the players who were experts on villager RP but were playing mages, get real. Play a single villager who doesn't have 10 villager allies on all the time and you'll see how ridiculously underpowered they are.

PS

To the imms, whichever one of you sent me a hanky? At least have the guts to show your face or own up to it. You guys love to snicker from the anonymity of your own characters and the comfort wizinvis provides.

PPS Big thanks to Fjarn for killing me beneath the sewers. Far and away the highlight of this char, no nans. Thanks dude.

cheers

I guess I'm not clear whether you object to the idea that what are generally very long lived characters tend to have rewards and be cabal leaders and such in general or whether you feel like you would have won the fights you lost were their rewards not present. (Or, I guess, if you believe that your skill level should be producing better than a pretty respectable 2-1-ish PK ratio.)

>I guess I'm not clear whether you object to the idea that
>what are generally very long lived characters tend to have
>rewards and be cabal leaders and such in general or whether

There are more quest rewards handed out now in one role contest than in an entire year to the entire playerbase in the past. On top of this we have 10+ role contests a year now? Throw in edges a lot of which are dependent on immxp and an immortals favor right or wrong becomes something that has a huge impact in pk. If I am going to spend my time playing a game with other players, I tend to find the most enjoyment when one player doesn't have a huge advantage over another just because one of the gods liked his story. Thats my obstacle though.

>you feel like you would have won the fights you lost were
>their rewards not present.

Won? Maybe. I'd settle for just having any chance against some of the people I was fighting. When I am making no real mistakes in a fight, have tried every tactic available, and I am still getting rocked with 0 chance at winning, its not really fun.
6 people with quest skills I fought this week and thats not even including today. Long-lived or not, some of the role contest rewards are hopelessly unbalanced to the rest of us playing normal characters.

> Or, I guess, if you believe that
>your skill level should be producing better than a pretty
>respectable 2-1-ish PK ratio.)

The thing is, I am ok with that ratio because I tend to play alone, have no ooc allies, and try not to be a punk who only fights when they have every advantage over their enemy. I try not to pick the low hanging fruit which makes me feel a bit different than some others with better ratios. A lot of CF players seem only willing to fight if they have odds or levels or numbers.

Also, the guy you once said is the best pker in CF (Twist) only had a 3-1-ish ratio with his arial battle warrior so I don't feel bad at all with a 2-1 ratio on a pre-hero who probably died 10 times in the last few days.

>If I am going to spend my time playing a
>game with other players, I tend to find the most enjoyment
>when one player doesn't have a huge advantage over another
>just because one of the gods liked his story. Thats my
>obstacle though.

I'm not aware of anyone you had to deal with that had what I would call a huge advantage in terms of extra skills or forms or the like.

The difference between Class IV and V of angel, for example, if you're not evil and thus don't really care about its extra spells is not a big one. If you don't feel like you would have won if you had, say, an extra 50-100 HP then I'm pretty confident you would have gotten killed by lesser archangel in its place.

A bigger factor than that, IMHO, is the veteran character factor. A Clahier is going to have had every skill that matters in a fight against Namric at 100% for months before you even rolled just because she's old. She's already figured out how she needs to gear and prep and maneuver that character. She knows what the weakpoints and bad matchups are for her character and figured out how to best deal with them. She's faced people playing your exact build who are or were better than you and learned to whip them.

That's a lot to surmount.

(That, and that's an awful matchup for your character. Not the worst, and not unwinnable, but bad. Which you didn't seem to realize -- see, again, experience.)

I completely understand the urge to go through about a character every month while other people are playing theirs for six months or a year but there's an extra challenge to that, too.

You really want to insult my experience by saying I don't realize its an awful matchup? I am the one who brought it up as an awful matchup.

Regarding skills...I was landing my skills in most fights and the majority of them were mastered.

You also know who has the quest form who I fought this week. You know two conjurers I fought with quest spells this week. You know the healer I killed with a quest commune, and you know the orc who has a ton of quest skills.

I am not saying imms are unfairly rewarding anyone or any specific character didn't deserve it. What I am saying is that those rewards do have a significant negative impact on the fun level for me the player who has to fight them. I don't know about other players as I cant speak for them.

I hate to make a comment like this but I am unsurprised this is hard for you to understand, because you are always playing characters who have rewards. But the issue of who gets rewarded is another thread altogether. Right now I am just saying I don't like playing in a league where some players get to use steroids and the rest of us are stuck with Wheaties.

Not sure about Nagibah, he was always a powerhouse. But you do realize that Iussuni, Clahier, and Krunk all took SIGNIFICANT ass beatings early in their life? Like, they got the piss kicked out of them, they stuck through it, they lasted it out and they got rewarded. Some were from RCs, some from Roleplay, but the fact is they weren't kicking ass all over the place their whole life. I've seen it with all three of them throughout my characters life. Sometimes you have to take a beating, keep trucking, and really shine before the rewards start coming. And then post reward, you turn into one of those overpowered bastards that people complain they can't kill. Trust me, each and every one of those characters earned their momentum they have now with blood and tears, I seen it.

Just food for thought.

gr

I mean you are married to an imm right?

Surely your trolling ability hasn't fallen that much.

Really funny comment as it comes from Eric Prothero's little brother!

I just said the rewards they have been given negatively affect my enjoyment of CF because those rewards translate into real advantages.

I am not asking for a single gift. I dont care if I get 0 immxp. I do however care that more than half of the enemies that I fought this week have 'special rewards'. Thats just too much bs and too frustrating an experience for me.

nt

You're like those guys I work with who bitch to my boss all the time about how much more I make for doing the same job. Her reply is that since I work harder, put in more hours, and just do a better job, I deserve more. CF is no different.

You get out of it what you put in. If you have a decent character with longevity, over time you'll gather rewards via imm xp, RC, questy things, edges and the like. You're upset that the people who put in the time and effort, are doing better than you. So put in the time and effort, and you too can have those abilities. You seem to think that because you don't want to put in the same effort, other people should have to go without being rewarded for being willing to. That's hardly fair to those people willing to go the extra mile.

Nobody is saying you have to play their way, but if you don't want to then you really don't have a leg to stand on about not getting rewards.

nt

nt

nt

Keep Pennsylvania beautiful

I can't comment on the rest of them but I also don't think being sucky should be a criteria for getting mechanical rewards (because I want them and I hope I am generally not so sucky someone feels the need to throw me a pity bone).

Just because someone has a 100-5 char doesn't mean they don't want and deserve a reward. By and large the people doing that kind of domination are more mechanically/strategically focused people who would find less value in a cosmetic reward. Not all rewards are valued equally by all people, to Raybear getting a custom title and nifty room description might be the creme de la creme, to someone like marcus it would be not bad but likely not very meaningful as getting a third legacy even if that legacy was something only mildly useful like vanguard.

"You really want to insult my experience by saying I don't realize its an awful matchup? I am the one who brought it up as an awful matchup."

So your complaint is that rewards are OP but then admit that the reward wasn't what beat you but the actual poor matchup?

"I hate to make a comment like this but I am unsurprised this is hard for you to understand, because you are always playing characters who have rewards. But the issue of who gets rewarded is another thread altogether. Right now I am just saying I don't like playing in a league where some players get to use steroids and the rest of us are stuck with Wheaties."

You are overstating the mechanical advantage of most of those rewards and overstating the frequency with which mechanical rewards in general are handed out. Once you stop trying to overinflate your argument to support your tenious supositions people may be more inclined to take your argument seriously.

I play characters that tend to get very little in the way of mechanical rewards (best I ever got was cabal edges, some tats, hardcoded leadership stuff, mageslayer belt, and 2 virtues on a paladin). Am I bitter that after almost 15 years of playing I have never had a quest form or a third legacy (given my run of villagers/warriors that one really irks me!!!!!) yeah I am.

But the issue of, I would like a third legacy, is different than the issue of, can I compete in an enviornment where some people do have third legacies. The answer is that skilled players manage to do well with or without special abailities and they beat other people who do and do not have special abilities.


I agree that the fact we have at least some 12+ year vets who have never had that opporunity(and have tried for it) is a bit ####ed up but trying to say you can't compete because of that is just... silly.

"A bigger factor than that, IMHO, is the veteran character factor. A Clahier is going to have had every skill that matters in a fight against Namric at 100% for months before you even rolled just because she's old. She's already figured out how she needs to gear and prep and maneuver that character. She knows what the weakpoints and bad matchups are for her character and figured out how to best deal with them. She's faced people playing your exact build who are or were better than you and learned to whip them."


That's pretty much why when you play a long lived char, you reach a point where you do have an advantage over someone with say 100-200 hours. Most of my PKs with Allysia for example came much later in life (PS Allysia got +1 charisma in 900+ hours, not exactly heavily rewarded but I thought she did just fine against most all other chars with nothing more than the skill set all bards get). Experience with a specific char generally favors a player, even against people with more overall general CF PK experience.

It's a basic rule of thumb, the older a char gets, the stronger he gets. I think it would actually be bad if any fresh level 51 was on equal footing all around with a level 51 that has been there for hundreds of hours. Just my opinion though. Good part is, you too can play a char as long as you live, and get to that upper part of the power curve with your char (if ytou think just reaching hero is ythe max, you are mistaken)

You are playing a build that is very viable in a lot of instances but did not put near the time into mastering it. Im playing a GD bedouin savage wood elf nexus. I have managed to be fairly successful in a lot of situations against a lot of those same characters that you are complaining about. If you stick to a build, lots of things become much much more even.


PS: Kelarin is a badass character so don't try to tarnish him. I even made a point to vouche for him as being a rager candidate to Salyeris since he was doing more retreive/mage hunting then any other app I saw at the time.

>PS: Kelarin is a badass character so don't try to tarnish him.
>I even made a point to vouche for him as being a rager
>candidate to Salyeris since he was doing more retreive/mage
>hunting then any other app I saw at the time.

I recommended him to the commander as well but getting into the village without a mage kill is just another example of some characters get all the benefits and others do not. Its the same thing Abernyte posted re: Djetmai. Different standards seem to ask depending on character/player and I don't much care for it.

I won't even get into how ridiculous Iklahn and Salyeris' relationship is and the fact that the leader of an opposing cabal is making recommendations to the leader of Battle just shows this game has gone a way I don't care for.

Glad you are enjoying your time on CF but I haven't for a while and its better that I find another game for a while.

Thanks for commenting.

Your being a whiny and acting as if these people dont deserve these things. SOME characters get better things because they are better characters. period. Dont be deluded why you dont get good things if you dont do good things.

I've got a single #### to give...and it's just for you.

I really liked you. In the middle ranges we both had near calls but to my knowledge we never actually managed to kill each other. I was looking forward to continuing the rivalry at hero.

Good luck with your next.

Really enjoyed all my interactions with Trinlen.

I too was looking forward to more fights. Fights vs. characters like Trinlen and Verdrim were why I play CF.

GLWYN

My current character, despite taking a hit in the hours departmrent as I was preparing for job interviews which finally finished yesterday, Had a run of about 17-18 wins and I was enjoying the character and even killed an RC winning shapeshifter with a flying questform and Gorilla. Then last week I died in PK twice to someone I was a pubic-hair's breadth away from killing both times and then later to someone I should have killed had others not intervened and me just not prepping enough.

1 con, some eq that was taken by passers by and a stinging 3 losses in a matter of 2 days. That used to be a complete recipe for rage delete as there is just no point. I logged out, left it a few days, made easier by the aformentioned job interview prep, and will log in properly tonight and start a fresh, gather some preps, eq, etc and carry on.

This character also got his ass kicked by Clahier when he was rank 40 after the RC win/reward and the angel rocked my socks. I just avoided him thereafter unless 'where archangel' and 'where angel' let me think I had a chance.

I just think you had a #### run in a bad week about who you came up against.

Playing times change for everyone so one week to the next can be different.

You are whiny, with no concept of game balance and no ability to withstand adversity.

Why don't you learn to beat these guys with the better powers? Instead of constantly fighting these guys, getting better, improving your tactics and your skills, you cry and run to the forum to whine that they are OP while mashing the delete button. Why not roll what you think is the class that beats them and take them down? Probably because you would just get owned even with the best possible matchup, because you're an inferior player. Why not RP and PK well enough to get those same rewards? Probably because you'd throw a whiny fit and died the first time a 300+ hour character came along with his restrung longdesc PK'd you and complain about balance (but I couldn't see if he was resting or not when I looked in the room!)

Just man up. Don't you like the idea of taking down that hard villain? The idea that someday you could be that powerhouse by taking down the last guy who was sporting tattoo and quest rewards? If you complain that you couldn't hang with leadered hero characters with RC wins as a 75 hour level 48 character and cite it as an example of imbalance, well, you are a moron. Should a mediocre PKer beat a strong player with more rewards given from a lifetime of good RP/PK and longevity? That's not a game I want to play.

That said, if it makes you feel any better, even the greats get owned every now and then. As a heroed nightreaver who went 100+ hours without dying, killing groups of 4, I got soloed by a level 48 warrior squire who made a great play. Why don't you try to be that guy, instead of the guy who runs to the forum to cry out every perceived slight or injustice? Don't you have any self-respect?

Getting killed should make you say to yourself "#### that guy, I'm going to be more prepared next time and take him down". If you don't have that attitude, you've probably topped out in terms of your PK success and should be content with your place as a gear-locker for strong players, or find another game.

>You are whiny, with no concept of game balance and no ability
>to withstand adversity.

Your best character on CF was an OOC permaing AP who abused a skill that was later changed. You are a perfect example of a player who unbalances CF for the guy who plays alone and doesn't go after low-hanging fruit all the time.

>Why don't you learn to beat these guys with the better powers?

I did beat some of them but that isn't something you want to hear, is it?

>Why not RP and PK well enough to get those
>same rewards?

I've gotten quest skills with some of my characters too. I don't know how you can say, just as an example, that Fjodir getting the barrier spell as a role contest reward isn't overpowered but hey not everyone agrees.

>Probably because you'd throw a whiny fit and
>died the first time a 300+ hour character came along with his
>restrung longdesc PK'd you and complain about balance (but I
>couldn't see if he was resting or not when I looked in the
>room!)

I am not talking about restrung long descs. I am talking about quest forms, quest skills and the like. You know, stuff that you wish you had too, because it gives a noticeable advantage in PK.

>Getting killed should make you say to yourself "#### that guy,
>I'm going to be more prepared next time and take him down".
>If you don't have that attitude, you've probably topped out in
>terms of your PK success and should be content with your place
>as a gear-locker for strong players, or find another game.

I actually agree with this point. I waited to complain until I tried every tactic I could against a couple of these enemies. I went at them with the most possible DR I can get with that build, even getting bard resist + rager resist. Thats the whole reason I deleted. It didn't matter the tactics or help I had, their quest rewards meant they could mow down or damn near 3 round me no matter what I did. Thats why I am playing another game, because I like some semblance of an even playing field. Adding in imm rewarded characters, OOC permas, and just plain unbalanced matchups, and CF has lost it's luster to me because its not anywhere near a level playing field. I don't really know how anyone with intelligence can say it is.

Thanks for the troll though?

>its not anywhere near a level playing field. I don't
>really know how anyone with intelligence can say it is.

And yet you've been unable to articulate what any of these people did to get ahead that you couldn't also do.

I feel like you're looking for something to point to that justifies why you lose some fights that isn't "I just got outplayed this time."

Hell, the last character I rolled got PK'd more than Namric did. I didn't feel the need to make excuses for that. Why should you?

The game isn't balanced. It hasn't been for a while. Its gotten much worse with edges and role contests. Great ideas to attract players and keep players happy, but there is a negative to this. Role contest rewards in general unbalance things even further than they already are.

Example - AP given the barrier spell as a role contest reward.

And that is an example of a guy who I was beating down so there is no way you can say it is sour grapes for me.

Why isn't that fair if you can also be an A-P with barrier?

Edit: And I'm not accusing you of sour grapes, exactly. I'm not saying you've gone after those rewards and not gotten them. I am saying that despite a relatively PK successful character I feel like you feel compelled to find reasons why you weren't more successful that don't place the blame on you.

Its convenience. If Rindros or Aiocis got the barrier spell as an RC reward I would have been pissed, because my barrier was so easy it would have been nothing more than an inventory space saver.

edit: also eating healing pills, I guess. Fjodir couldn't use healers.

I also fought a bunch of people with role rewards, I killed them kk thanks.

Also, you arent even hero, and at 75 hours, yeah you couldnt steam roll skilled players with at least 300 hours? c'mon

I kind of skimmed the posts in this thread, and I think I'm going to use my dexterity to gracefully evade this in general. I guess I can say that rewards are supposed to be rewardy, and give some advantage somehow. A lot of thought and work goes into balance, and how to reward with "balance +1" without hitting "balance +9".

However, I did want to give you a "you're welcome" for the sewers bit. As a player, I've always thought that it's those types of little things that make this game awesome. BTW, I saw that you got me those 10 skulls you promised in return for a warrior's death. You may not have known that I saw, but I noticed.

Another warrior deleted and left his crap behind in the Galadon guild hall. I later saw (ooc) that he was a Nexun, go figure. If that was supposed to be some snide accusation of cheating based on assumptions, kiss my backside.

On another note I enjoyed your character and our interactions. I'm sorry that your experience was crappy but you seemed to be doing good (rp-wise at least). I hope that you decide to make another character, find your niche, and enjoy the game.

*Edited to use the word "backside" instead of another.

Never edit a comment when posting anonymously.

gr