Mon Mar 26 15:56:23 2012

At 11 o'clock PM, Day of the Great Gods, 33rd of the Month of the Dragon
on the Theran calendar Eleagra perished, never to return.

I had my first Empire char under him. You reminded me of him.

Am I Russian? You decide.

I just read his battlefield post when I found out he is spelled Yagharek, and it seems his english is pretty american.

The name has a touch of russian I think and he didn't talk much.

nt

nt

I generally liked what I saw, other than some specific incidents where you seemed to completely disregard Imperial policy against Anathema's (your interactions with Tzar which went as far as to group with him and politely pass one another) until forced to acknowledge he was enemy #1.

You redeemed yourself shortly after the Imperial Council became animated enough to press you to kill the Anathema, which he seemed to concede to with your forewarning.

I specifically invited you to Warrior challenges in an attempt to see you earn a third legacy among your peers. I felt you had the upper hand especially when Villagers lost the head.

My feelings are mixed about the character but it was a convincing powerhouse with a tremendous amount of potential outside of bash bash flurry.

Good luck with the next.

>>>I generally liked what I saw, other than some specific incidents where you seemed to completely disregard Imperial policy against Anathema's (your interactions with Tzar which went as far as to group with him and politely pass one another) until forced to acknowledge he was enemy #1.

You redeemed yourself shortly after the Imperial Council became animated enough to press you to kill the Anathema, which he seemed to concede to with your forewarning.>>>

Well, first I've never grouped with him after anathema, more so never fought alongside with him. As for not attacking him - I've never saw him as enemy to me or Empire. Actualy at that moment I saw Raeghan as one. Was trying to otherthrow him and return Tzar back to where was his place. It failed with fading of High Priest and Otuerghad slowness/not wishing it. You can see it whatever way you like but that decision is hardly much different from RBWs vs parity.

>>>I specifically invited you to Warrior challenges in an attempt to see you earn a third legacy among your peers. I felt you had the upper hand especially when Villagers lost the head.

Thanks for trying but guess you are just bad at game mechanics I had zero chances there. Fire giants are just not suited for that. Could do abit better if knew about competition and was prepared for that but even with War Master powers I'd have very slim chances to do at least something there. Such battle highly favors dex builds and especialy dex based deffenders.

It isn't your place to rationalize killing or not killing an anathema. Even if he was your best friend (in character besties), he is anathema. You and your blood oath dictates that you kill him. He's ENEMY #1.

It's your take on it. If it was true, there would be no anathemas returned back.

>It's your take on it. If it was true, there would be no
>anathemas returned back.

In my perfect world there wouldn't be. I frequently regret coding the unanathema command, which was created because for some reason Tureanthen kept anathing people totally by mistake.

But that being said, regardless of what your character or RP take is on it, you do understand that by Empire Dogma an Anathema is enemy #1 right? And that by not murdering one when you can you're taking as much of a risk as a Battle guy who decides to let a mage live, etc.?

Would Raeghan catch me up with that and demote/anathema without any word I'd be perfectly fine with it.

You're also rolling the dice that Enlilth or Zulg might.

When you're breaking a specific leader's rules, you usually only have to worry about them. When you're violating the rules of your cabal, all bets are off.

nt

I can't remember if I've said as much yet, but I wanted to add that I respect you for sticking it out so long as an anathema. That's hard for a lot of people to manage.

Had the potential to be another Hunsobo (though for me she kinda was, saw nothing but good things from the character).

Your character should care less, should feel compelled to acknowledge them as a primary target and deal with them.

You're also fine in walking that rope of not doing it but the only reason you're really getting away with it at that point is due to lack of immortal/leader oversight.

Now you are trying to tell me how MY char should think and act. Rather pointless. I knew the risks and was ready to pay for my actions. I actualy did in that mask episode. Again anathema thing is Imperial Law not the game rule. So here my char is free to interpree it again with all coming risks.

is that you took a blood oath. It isn't something you simply say but a binding of your character's soul to imperial law. There should be some compulsion from this, meaning, your character shouldn't really have the opportunity to rationalize it away. He's compelled to act through the blood oath.

I say this as a guy who had a character made anathema for overlooking/helping another wrongfully made anathema character. At the time, I thought, my char will just do what is best for him. Wrong thinking.

I understand what you are saying. Still will keep up to my opinion. So let's just agree to disagree.

And he got Anathema'd for that behavior.

I think you are both on the same page, just different languages

How your character would act, or how you as a player would act?

You can't really spout out "My character would act this way and that way" when you haven't put the slightest role in, or any semblance of a history of role play to back up your going completely against cabal dogma. In some cases it may work (See Hralpelk), but in your case where there was nothing to back up your actions, no... it really wouldn't.

And once again I shall finish by saying that if you put in even a semi-effort at putting forth some history to the character and playing that character as that role would dictate, you would be one of our top tier players across the board, no questions asked.

Menzaen and the girdle, no?

nt

*disclaimer: I don't want this to start a troll because I thought Eleagra was a solid character.

Was it because of the big powerswing from the fort that the imms ignored the fact that for a long period of time Seisorold (SP? that empire/anathema bard)and Eleagra were a perma. I don't want to accuse them off OOC coordination because I both have no evidence for it and don't think that fact matters based on the helpfile.

PERMAGROUP PERMA-GROUP 'PERMA GROUP' (930)
A 'permagroup' is defined as two or more characters who rarely do
anything without the other. In essence, if you very rarely adventure
without a particular person, you are part of a permagroup. (Logging
in and sitting in your guild or gathering items while waiting for
your perma-partner(s), for instance, does not count as "doing
something".)

Avoiding being part of a permagroup is easy:

1) Mix up the people you travel with. This is a good idea for reasons
other than avoiding permagrouping - it gathers you a larger network
of allies to call on when you are in need.

2) Treat everyone according to their IC merits. One simple way to
guarantee this is to not tell other people who you are playing.

3) Ask yourself if you are exploiting your connection to the other
character(s) to gain an unfair advantage over another player. This
can be a difficult determination to make, but fairness to other
players will be at the heart of the staff's decision, so weigh it
carefully.

See also RULES.

Empire anathema doesn't exactly have a huge list of people friendly with them. To some degree, you're pretty much stuck with whoever you can get at that point, particularly if you ever are trying to get back in.

Just reread your post, and edited to add that a LOT of caballed characters can come across as a perma from the outside. It's in your interest to raid, kill cabal enemies, etc, together. I happen to rarely see certain Fort people apart, but a lot can just be same cabal similar times.

We may be putting in some stuff for higher-level imms to make use of to watch logins/outs objectively. What we came up with in our discussions was that Eleagra logged in plenty without Tzar or Seisorald.

I thought it'd be pretty hypocritical for me to bust down on Eleagra and Tzar (and Seisorald) for having very similar playtimes when the same could have been said for Waserax and Hunsobo, when there was absolutely no permagrouping and no OOC communication going on there.

Many of my chars end up sharing a lot of login time with one or two other people in my cabal, too.

One funny thing was I sent a note to Z to say "Hey let's talk about this" and didn't catch up with him for a few days. When we did catch up, Tzar and Eleagra had each logged on without the other (or Seisorald) for considerable time during each of those few days. So yeah. It's something we do try to watch.

I'm sure there will be people pissed that we "did nothing" and there'd be people pissed if we "did something" so rather than look at what "everyone wanted" we looked at what seemed fair.

I will say that I didn't really like that Tzar essentially stopped playing completely when he was anath and Eleagra wasn't, and then came back once it was ok for them to IC be allies again.

That said, unless we tried to make it a hard and fast rule that you can only play one character at a time, cracking down on that sort of thing is a bit like saying "You have to play character X even if it isn't fun for you!"

Bleh.

So where to start? Eleagra never planed as somewhat serious char. My aim with her was to give Empire some breath it really lacked - totaly ruined after Syvih rulership cabal, no heroes, hordes of fort. So I was planning to come up, give bring some hell to fort and delete when Empire would be at decent strenght again. It didn't work out but here we comes to the build.

After my failed felar experiment and concidering my aim I just wanted some cookie cutter build with decent power ceiling which I know how to play. So it was some mix between Biklaha nad Targrala. Fire sword/mace greeting/crushing. As an aside Bik and Targ had axe as second spec and I should I admit I liked mace way way more. Looking back I think Adarmar like build would suit circumstances much more - fire giants are not good at fighting vs gangs. It's just me prefering later high kill sealing builds for high survivability builds.

Eleagra start was rough. I rarely died less than once per session which is ####ing too much for me I couldn't keep on somewhat decent set, didn't have really good swords and if not Tzar who kept providing me with armors I'd likely deleted somewhere in late november. Things only settled down somewhat with Seis upcomming. Now he was my meat shield and I could survive much better even if with Raegan's leadership(if we can call it leadership) Empire got into #### yet again and Fort didn't seem to start fading away out of utter boredom I would imagine they had. I still have no clue why it took that much time to get rid of inactive emperor. Guess would he won't #### up his logging once per week we'd still have him as emperor?

Somewhere around that time I also found that CF drasticaly lost it's apeal for me. So I just decided to play Eleagra as long as I can at least somewhat enjoy it and then call it the end.

As about Emperor thing and Imm conspiracy. I don't have much desire to discuss it now. It just doesn't really matter now. Though during the time between Raegan and Otuerghad when there were again pretty much no active imperials except me, Otuerghad and Seis, concidering the promise from Imperial council after Sektah-Rah mask incident and the opionion of big part of playerbase I think my hopes for the Emperor without vote were pretty reasonable. Imms decided other way around and I'm fine with it. As for the vote and the way it was set up I knew the result as soon as recieved the note about it. After all I think it's all for good. Would I get Emperor I'd have at least 300-400 more hours to play now which means I would miss yet one more spring

I would skip personal goodbuys. If you have something to say you are wellcome and I will respond.

Peace out and just as I'm leaving at least for some decent time here's the list of my favorite previous chars

Liriana, imperial bard, Elite
Kornuel, imperial bard, War Master
Agar, village defender, arial dagger/mace balance/whirlwind
Eleia, imperial bard, War Master
Ikbe, imperial fire AP, Dread Lord
Biklaha, nexus warrior, cloud sword/axe greeting/crushing
Dzintiri, imperial bard, War Master
Adarmar, imperial warrior, Emperor-bloodoath, arial dagger/hth riddle/gates/forsaken
Targrala, imperial warrior, Elite, fire sword/axe greeting/enigma
Hildara, imperial human AP, Elite
Kirsly, nexus warrior, arial dagger/mace riddle/whirlwind
Eleagra, imperial warrior, War Master-anathema, fire sword/mace greeting/crushing

>As about Emperor thing and Imm conspiracy. I don't have much
>desire to discuss it now. It just doesn't really matter now.
>Though during the time between Raegan and Otuerghad when there
>were again pretty much no active imperials except me,
>Otuerghad and Seis, concidering the promise from Imperial
>council after Sektah-Rah mask incident and the opionion of big
>part of playerbase I think my hopes for the Emperor without
>vote were pretty reasonable. Imms decided other way around and
>I'm fine with it.

I don't think I've ever heard the Sekhtan-Rah incident story, if you don't mind elaborating.

I'm not trying to defend anyone or any choice here exactly, just giving you my different perspective on it and how things went down as best as I could remember. If it isn't interesting to you, feel free to ignore it.

One thing I don't know if you ever really factor into your calculus is that you tend to play a certain subset of hours of the day (we all do) and that it's possible to totally miss other characters. With the hours I play, I probably didn't see Eleagra online even a dozen times ever, although obviously I know secondhand that she was on a lot and beating a lot of people down. Even when Raeghan (sp?) was pretty inactive I personally was still seeing Raeghan on a lot more. It's pretty possible to come to different conclusions than you did about who was how active when.

Here's how I remember the votes (and maybe there were more that I missed):

First one comes up a four-way tie. At that point Baer was trying to goad Enlilth into just picking you, which doesn't really matter except in the sense that it always was funny to me afterwards when you seemed to think she was out to get you when she might have been the only one in your corner. Enlilth ended up picking Raeghan and with the information he had at the time I don't think it was a wrong choice, although I do think Empire probably would have beat down a lot more people under Eleagra. There were some ways in which I thought Raeghan was a pretty unusually cool Empire character and I totally understand the curiosity to give a character like that a little rope and see if they hang themselves or make some kind of awesome macrame from it.

Second one, where Otuerghad became Emperor, Eleagra didn't get one vote. That was a surprise to me, but what can you do?

>>>One thing I don't know if you ever really factor into your calculus is that you tend to play a certain subset of hours of the day (we all do) and that it's possible to totally miss other characters. With the hours I play, I probably didn't see Eleagra online even a dozen times ever, although obviously I know secondhand that she was on a lot and beating a lot of people down. Even when Raeghan (sp?) was pretty inactive I personally was still seeing Raeghan on a lot more. It's pretty possible to come to different conclusions than you did about who was how active when.

I understand it but opinion was also based on reports from people with different than mine playtimes. Sometimes I also had a possibility to play at what I think was Raegans usual times and then again it's not question of Elagra vs Raegan playtime comparison. It's question why inactive(and you confirmed it) leader char keeps his posion.

About first vote. To be honest at the time I wasn't aiming for Throne at all. I thought that Tzar should have gotten it. So when I was called out to Enlilth shrine, got tittled and tattooed (thanks, Enlilth, btw, you were and are and likely always will be my favorite Imm ) for not being choosen Emperor came as total surprise. I felt myself like little punching bag at the moment. Raeghan was even more odd choice to be honest. Maybe just because I didn't feel it's good time for experiments when we have usual 6-8 men fortganks running around. Also whiney bitch as Emperor isn't too good in my book too. The time showed that this opinion was right I think.

On the second vote.. As I said I had zero chances there. The first time I ever saw Cabasko on was long after the vote. And no doubt Otuerghad made him sure I will bring back Tzar if get Throne. Qiirvas wasn't allowed to be voted for which practicaly ruined any chance for the draw. And I was sure he won't vote for me either. That's it.

I don't think that Fort main Imm should have any valuable opinion about Empire's leadership. My main concern with your wife along with overrewarding thing is that we have too much Baerinika pretty much everywhere. While it's cool to have active Imm it often comes as crossing the line and getting into the things which are just not her bussiness. Though it's just my maybe biased opinion.

Keep in mind that Baer probably gets to watch more players more often. I think this is what Daevryn was getting at - Baer had some insights into all the characters and simply shared it with Enlilth. Bottom line - Enlilth's decision.

None of the imms are on 24/7. We try to help each other out by pointing out the good and the bad we see, and generally I'll pull logs for someone on request if they want more detail on some incident that happened while they weren't logged on.

Mostly I think this works in your favor as a player, like "Hey Twist you're missing this really cool Twist guy who plays when you don't, you should try to catch him somehow" but yeah, of course there's also "Hey Marcatis, this Trib was bashing unwanted people down in Galadon for some reason last night."

Just FWIW, Qiirvaas actually did get a vote, he just couldn't be voted for. His vote was sent to Enlilth.

Part of the reason for that was that I screwed up in calling the vote (requested by Enlilth) - I thought I had promoted Qiirvaas all the way up to High Priest (also requested by Enlilth) but had only made him Elite.

So we discussed and since his donations really weren't up to where they should've been per his discussion with Enlilth but he got HP anyways just so we could call the vote, we decided it was fair for him to get to vote but not be a choice that others could pick.

Random side notes.

1.) That vote came out tied. Zulg's choice in the end I believe.

2.) If it weren't for the opinions of other imms, some characters would never get anything from me. Some characters never do anyway because of my play times.

3.) Baerinika doesn't especially hate you, or the guy playing tzar. Your perceptions may differ, but that's my honest belief.

-- Try an Enlilth follower today! Enlilth, now with 40% more chewey caramel in every bite. --

>>>Just FWIW, Qiirvaas actually did get a vote, he just couldn't be voted for. His vote was sent to Enlilth.

That's what I ment. Maybe was lost in translation.

I liked this character. I tatted and titled this character. If you think I wasn't pulling for you most of the time then you're wrong. I think you're just disgustingly talented with that build, and like Twist says if that's fun for you then play it. I get the same criticism every time I delete yet another druid.

-- Try an Enlilth follower today! Enlilth, now with 40% more chewey caramel in every bite. --

We've had our differences and disagreements but I will say that you are a consistent challenge to play against and I think you bring a lot to the game as an individual.

Sorry to see you go and hope you come back soon.

Only time we were allies other than Biklaha/Ixralleinda.

Uhmm, the worst of my bards? She wasn't my favorite

I always had fun trying my luck against you, though. The only chance I ever had at you was with careful planning and alot of luck, which I almost had the one day under the sewers. Ambush, savage knockout, snare, another ambush later...and you get away.

You were a good character, though. GLWYN, and hope it's just as deadly, I wanna see how I measure up against it with my next one.

I wanted another chance to get you, but all good things come to an end. I should not have stayed to fight with you that time in Hamsah. Your flurry was perfectly timed though and it did me in. If only you had stood still for another round during the latter fights, you would have been a corpse. I hope you return to the fields soon. Good luck.

AFAIR I don't think you had a role, and your roleplay was mostly the same as most of your characters - ok but nothing truly shiny.

That said in combat you were majorly feared and you were, from what I saw, most always a class act. I watched you eat some poor guy alive today and (despite losing parts of a nice set recently) leave him everything but his gold. I didn't have time to see if his stuff was mostly worthless, but some folks would grab it all to sort later.

You likely believe that the imms had something to do with you not getting Empress, but the way the vote went says otherwise. I think the worst thing that happened to you is a lack of imm love (no 3rd legacy, etc.) which, honestly, I'll go back to the "no role and only ok roleplay" aspect.

As for those who have a hard time with the fact that you "only play Empire" or "only play giant sword" or whatever, screw'm. Play what is fun for you, I say. You play Imperial well, you play warrior well, so...if that's fun for you, go nuts.

That's all I've got. I generally enjoy your characters (though I always seem to end up an enemy even when I'm playing Empire ), so I hope you get the spark to play another. If not, well, hopefully you enjoyed your time in the Fields.

This character was one of the strongest I can remember in a long time.

Well done. I know in my deletion you said I backtrailed Fort but that was never the case and when Eachainn and such show up on the Battlefields I will post the logs.

Great character and good luck with the next.

Tough foe for me. Mostly due to the fact that the only no-remove swords I could get reliably, you were resistant to. Also, you are far more careful than I am, and because of that you prep well and avoid situations where you might not win. You made any fight with Tzar an absolute nightmare unless I had some no remove wrathing swords, which was like, once in my entire life. Also, while most of us in the village were semi-avoiding war with Empire, you pressed your advantage at near every opportunity. We didn't have much RP interaction, so I can't comment on the whole anath/Empire stuff. I both enjoy, and hate being on the opposite side of you in PK wars. I enjoy it because I know I am measuring myself against what I consider to be one of the better PKers in the game, and hate it because you are so careful and hard to kill. In any case, GLWYN and see you in the fields.