Wed Oct 19 12:42:56 2011

At 12 o'clock PM, Day of the Bull, 1st of the Month of the Dark Shades
on the Theran calendar Ndamakun perished, never to return.

After playing for about a year, having one hero and way too much time spent trying to learn this game, I am done.

It's been fun. It's a great game in many ways, amazing the work the IMMs have put into it, but man the deck is stacked against you in a MAJOR way if you haven't been playing for years and years, especially having no OOC friends that play CF to help me figure things out.

Obregon you were cool (at first), but man you could have just talked with me a little before getting so harsh and kicking me out. Or at least gave me a little time after you did so. I really was trying-- every log-on the Fort had the scepter or came and got it. A little understanding and communication would have gone a long ways, rather than shifting forms and refusing to talk with me (or at least it seemed that way). I did send a note that I spent a lot of time on, I just put a comma between your name and Reksah's (which I didn't realize until the end was a problem. Help note says nothing about this)...and I did ask you later if you got it and you never said anything.

As a mage in the late 20s and early 30s ranks, I had a hard time retrieving. The healers and paladins would heal the guard every time, making it quite futile, or else I would get jumped by several of the Fort and/or villagers and be lucky to get out alive. Sorry if I didn't appear to be dedicated, or skilled enough, but seeing as how it was a constant problem and they'd just re-raid immediately it just didn't always seem worth it. Again, a little warning would have gone a LONG ways in guiding me on your expectations.

I guess by being around fairly often since getting inducted into Scion, maybe it looked like I never did anything (because there was basically never anyone else around in Scion that I saw). In reality, I was simply trying to get a group when i could--which was very difficult--so that I could do more in the future. I died trying several times, more often than not I struck a few times with complete futility against the healing, and went off to do other things. Then you or Rhindros would awake and think I was just being lazy. Maybe I was, or was seen as too weak. Whatever.

As for traveling with Imperials, again a little guidance would have gone a long way. I don't know all of the history of past ages. Didn't realize it was so frowned upon or I wouldn't have done it. For my role I could care less about imperials. I had intentions of incorporating that relationship further into my role in the future. Oh well.

I mean really, how is a guy supposed to learn this game other than try to challenge oneself. In doing so, I was made to feel like an idiot and so I'm done. Yeah, I guess Scion is not for the inexperienced. I'll leave the game to you experts.

PS- Rhindros, you were a complete ####. Suck it, Sirrah. Some inspiration and guidance from the leaders would be great. Constant bossing and accusations as the only interaction just make it feel stressful. This is a game, it's supposed to be fun, isn't it? Then I strike several times while you are running your mouth, they re-raid us as soon as we had retrieved the scepter, Obregon does not show up at all at the Chasm as the Fort elites strike...what am I supposed to do? Oh, go and attack again. Yeah, whatever. I was glad you died like a little wussy to Fjordin when you attacked that time, after giving me a bunch of ####. That brightened my day.

Anyhow, I'm gone to enjoy REAL life, which I can say fortunately goes a lot better for me than my lives in CF have thus far.

Nice work IMMs on a cool world. There are some great people around, a few real jerks but they are the minority. If you're smart, you'll do something to help people like me stick around or soon enough there won't be anyone to kill.

It was fun while it lasted. Peace out.

Ndamakun, Dondatda, Atreiulu, Szetekha

FWIW, Scion is pretty much the most elitist cabal in the game, and that's kind of on purpose.

I don't have much in the way of other commentary -- I don't think your play times and mine intersect(ed) much.

...due to the fact that you were in SCION. Scion is not nor should be a newbie cabal.

I think Daevryn once said 'If you're the type that sees 1 or no allies on the who pk and 10 enemies and thinks 'Sweet, lots of potential PKs' you're SCION material but if you're the type that sees that range and thinks 'Oh ####, my login is going to suck and I want to just quit out' SCION probably isn't for you.

I do think you should be commended for at least being competant enough as a relative newbie to get into SCION, personally.

A suggestion that I hope you take? Try a villager if you do decide to come back. Don't go overly crazy with the role/class/race, and you should be fine. Svirf Axe spec seems to work for most people

I for one hope you come back.

>I think Daevryn once said 'If you're the type that sees 1 or
>no allies on the who pk and 10 enemies and thinks 'Sweet, lots
>of potential PKs' you're SCION material but if you're the type
>that sees that range and thinks 'Oh ####, my login is going to
>suck and I want to just quit out' SCION probably isn't for
>you.

Probably not in those exact words, but yeah that's pretty close. In Scion you're almost always going to be outnumbered and will probably often also be out-powered, which is harder to take for most people. That is to say if there's only two Scions on but they're Charine and Paraloiut, I feel a little bad for Fortress even if there are six of them and even if conjurer and ranger aren't the most synergistic classes in the world. Your allies will be watching you for weakness and unlikely to offer you much guidance. Obregon can't hold your hand! Obregon needs that hand to try to fend off those six Fortguys!

To some people that's fun, and to some people that's not fun. Scion isn't dysfunctional exactly so much as something that doesn't appeal to every player just as Battle Berserker doesn't appeal to every player and just as Acolyte Healer doesn't appeal to every player and just as Herald doesn't appeal to every player. That Scion isn't a fit for you doesn't necessarily mean that CF isn't a fit for you.

P.S.: Mr. Grey, without taking any sides among the characters in question, you should know that I laughed out loud at your "Suck it, Sirrah!"

But I've been walking around the house harassing Daevryn with my Rindros impression for a couple weeks now.

That might have been a bit easier to play around with and learn things. Plus, really nobody plays a class for the first time and has the hang of it quickly. In scion, you're generally assumed to be skilled, and that makes being in the cabal more demanding than in others.

Scion can be a very harsh cabal- that you got in is a feat in itself that you should have been proud of. Unfortunately, it's the RP element of the cabal that makes it so tough, because they have limited spots, so if you can't keep up, they have to make room. It also tends to be very PK intensive, where as in other cabals you won't have to always be dealing with retriveing and large roaming squads of death that will kill you on sight.

Cf is just a hobby, nothing to be worked up over. And yeah, playing a non-evil cabal goes a long way in cutting out a lot of the douche RP (not a knock on those characters- but characters in scion/empire are supposed to act evil- not just be all lovey and nice with their cabal mates).

n/t

I've been playing off and on for a long, long time, six or seven years, and my most recent scion applicant flamed out at 34 after losing something like 8-9 con. I just couldn't measure up. Rejoice - you got farther than I did and you've only been playing for a year. Got inducted and stuff.

Don't hold any grudges, man - they're assholes to people for a reason. If you want help with your newbieness in a cabal that rewards dedication and RP, I'd say that Fort, Herald, Nexus, and Battle are all pretty good for that in one way or another. I don't think any of them will boot you out for really newbie mistakes, though it takes awhile to get used to each cabal's dogma.

Empire and Scion are both a lot less tolerant of mistakes, and a good empire/scion character is one that doesn't hesitate to punish people for ####ing up.

You picked the wrong cabal if you wanted guidance and leadership, good sir.

Well, I'm sorry that this seems to have killed your fun, but I don't feel your uninduction was unwarranted.

As many others have said, Scion is an elite cabal. I intentionally try to keep it that way, as I think that pretty much every other cabal (with the possible exception of Outlanders) is pretty friendly to newbies. This, hopefully, gives people that want a different experience an option when it comes to cabals.

It's also an evil cabal. Not in the sense of white hat/black hat fake evil, but your cabal leaders and mates are often going to be horrible people. If they sense weakness, they're going to make your character feel bad.

I never got the sense that you were a newbie when I watched you, but I did notice you ranking very often with cabal enemies. Even ranking with them while members of their cabal were taking the Scepter. This, generally, is not going to go over well. Especially if I catch you ranking with them again while Fort has your item and you don't have any enemies in your pk range.

If I see stuff like this that becomes a habit, I mention it to leaders. There are too many people, in my opinion, that know they aren't supposed to do stuff like this and roleplay poorly when they think they can get away with it, which isn't how I want Scion to be.

As far as retrieving/ranking: it can be hard to retrieve at low levels as a transmuter. I would recommend if you find yourself in a similar situation, try to get a group or Nexus people to help you, rather than just go up against it by yourself. Transmuters are very popular groupmates, and you can get levels with pretty much any group you can make.

I understood that Scion was dangerous, that everyone is basically out to get you, and that it would be tough. Honestly, I was entirely up for the challenge and not worried about going slow, dying a lot, being a loner, whatever. I wanted to play a role that would be strong for PK, and one that would be strong RP. Seemed to be off to a fair start...

However, my experience with Scion was pretty much: Why don't we have the Scepter? What have you done to get the Scepter? Go get the Scepter while I do something important...oh, how embarrassing, you failed/died/ran.

I admittedly didn't realize that Imperials had to be treated like the enemy all the time. I still don't really understand why and like I said, a warning would have made me never travel with them again, hunt them down every chance I had, etc. Scion may be an elitist cabal, but you can't expect everyone to know everything. That's what I mean by leadership and guidance--let people know what's expected, or if you haven't, explain it and give them a chance to respond.

And yes, there was one time I did stay grouped with an Imperial when their heroes raided--perhaps that was bad RP but again I had my perspectives and a role to play. Kick me out for that if you have to, I suppose. But honestly, though, I was trying to keep a low profile (as I let it be known) and get to where I could cast duo dimension (2 levels away!), and then would have been a lot more dangerous/aggressive, able to surprise and could actually stay alive to do the things I was expected (and fully intending) to do...to finally have a fairly strong PK character and to play a strong role. Ah well. Was not meant to be.

I know the Scion cabal-mates are evil, that it's competitive, etc. That's what I was looking for and I still feel I would have been able to do my part if given a real chance. But if someone clearly doesn't know all the unspoken rules of a cabal, all I would hope for is a short face-to-face discussion to explain things. Be evil about it, whatever. Threaten me. But give me a warning, a chance to make my case and RP a bit, rather than what happened which was basically being un-inducted because I died trying to get the Scepter against the odds (again) and general miscommunication about a note that I thought that I'd sent and would have immediately re-sent had I known.

I mean, at least talk with me for a few minutes to see what the deal is. Communication makes RP work, right? Like, as I tried to describe my situation and coordinate a strike on the Fort (considering I can't kill that thing in one attempt on my own), I get from Rhindros over the CB channel: "What are you writing a novel?" Okay man, whatever. I guess I'm not elite.

Maybe I'll be back some day, but for now I'm out. My wife will be happy about this. Ha! I don't have it in me to start over after being right where I wanted to be and having it all fall apart for nothing.

... shouldn't have been inducted to Scions with that little knowledge of the Cabal... Every Scion I've had have been going through rigorous induction interviews, some even had player-run mini-quests, making sure I really understood the cabal dogma, history and expectations.

If one doesn't know that Imperials are sworn enemies one shouldn't get inducted, that's my view of it, and how I did it the brief period of CF history I was a Scion leader.

So the whole imperial thing really ain't your fault, when you pledged and spoke to some Scions/leaders they should've picked that up and sent you away with homework to do. (Go read stuff in the Lyceum, ask a herald about it. There's some AWESOME writings in there about CF history, past characters, cabals, religions, rumors, areas and what not. It is really awesome! I've spent countless of hours reading there and I've been around here for a long time now.)

But I must say that you must have made quite an impression with your RP to get inducted to Scions, it is not an easy cabal to get into. And after playing only a year that's good. Personally I'd say that a year and then the fun begins.

Make a new char, do what TMNS recommended, a villager (To just relax and mess around with PKing, con-die etc) and head to the Lyceum and read up on stuff. You also have a reason as a villager to learn about magic stuff that is also useful for nexuns and scions because of the veil and things.

Scion history is an interseting one, in the Lyceum it's called "The Sundering", find it and read it. Great stuff.

Always shoot first and then call whatever you hit the target.

Yeah Fjodir finally got me. Completely blind-sided me, so good on him for that. I've been a bit on tilt lately and need to regain my stride.

When Advisor-To-Be logs on and sees a new member on of lvl 31, whom he has never interacted with, fort has the scepter, and you tell him you have no idea who defends, and he can only see maybe two people in your range, thats not going to look very good.

What everyone else said is true. Scion is very elitist and just because they're your allies, it doesn't make them your friends. However, you don't need to be deathful or strong to be a scion. What you absolutely cannot do, though, is appear weak; and cowardice is the greatest sin. This is especially true when dealing with an evil conjurer. They know better than anyone else the penalty for weakness or cowardice.

There are lots of ways you could have said that retrieving was beyond your ability without suggesting that you didn't bother trying. Maybe you say that the guys healing them made them too much for you, or that you needed to recruit some slaves (or allies) to help deal with them.

Then, after being chastised for looking like you arent retrieving, you go and say that you dont want to "throw your life away" against two defenders when they'll just take the scepter again. That was kind of the nail in the coffin.

The not wanting to throw my life away recklessly comment came after 1) dying (to a villager thief that was constantly stalking me) in my first attempt at retrieval, 2) we had just regained the scepter only to lose it... and 3) I stood in the Chasm and watched the Fort heroes raid us immediately following our retrieval and neither you nor Obregon could do a thing about it (or didn't bother trying)...so why go immediately back and do it all again? Hence my additional comments along the lines that patience is a good strategy when the odds are stacked against you.

Anyhow, no offense. I'm sure you were just playing your role. It just came off a bit harsh to a young mage who had a difficult time dealing with the Fortress, who perhaps should have been more focused on the Scepter at all times but so often no one was around to defend the constant raids. Regardless, it seems I should have RP'ed better and maybe I'd still be around.

Decisions were made. What's done is done. No hard feelings--just hopes that next time communication might be a little better. On with life.

Just as a comparison, I've been playing CF for about 13 years, and I've had literally one Scion, ever. My last attempt I don't think I even got time of day from the leaders *fistshake Twist*. This is also from someone who's had two Heroimms, one of my past characters is now a mob in the Battle cabal, maybe a half-dozen tattoo'd characters and had members of EVERY cabal except Shadow & Scarab at one point or another over the years. So, don't feel too bad about washing out of Scion. I haven't even managed to get inducted in the last five years or so.

Must be too old for this game. Where's my cane?

Anyhow, thanks for all of the encouragement. Based on the comments perhaps I should not have been so discouraged (nor assumed I was worthy of being in Scion to begin with).

You know how it goes, though, you get so invested in your character that it's hard not to take these kinds of things personally, hobby or not.

Maybe I'll be back to try again after a long break, let my head clear a while, let my carpal tunnel chill out, and spend some good time outdoors before winter sets in. Time will tell.

As others have said it's amazing that you were in even for a little while good job go you. I think my first character was late '99 and I got so harshly tooled it took a year before I rolled another. I have NEVER had a scion. Hehe you already outstripped me by far. Hehe I didn't have a hero til 2002 or 2003 I think. A couple of loooong breaks in there. Anyway after your long break come back it appears you will rock at this game! Best of luck with your next whenever that is.

Scion was full about 90% of the time once Tavlin could induct. And I generally hate using pledges to do my dirty work, because I've been in that situation on the other end and it sucks. So yeah sorry if you didn't get any interaction from Tavlin, but whenever we had an opening I would go out hunting for decent apps to talk to them. And when that was the case, it was usually the ones who were around the most that got the lucky break. :S

As an evil conjurer, made friends with Scions easy enough (most of them LOVED anyone who they COULD level with), but you were already hero, and there was definitely an intimidation factor going on. So I never really spoke up, and my hours are horrid these days w/ kids. More counted myself out. Learned a bit w/ the character anyways, which was more the point. I just can't create a character without TRYING to get into SOME cabal.

It is a pretty cool name.

Aside from my snide name remarks, I'll echo the sentiments most others have had. I've had a couple scions over the years, but I don't much like the cabal atmosphere either. It is a tough, unforgiving place. Possibly even tougher than a Scarab, since there's no cabal item for Scarabs to defend and retrieve.

I really hope you stick around as you obviously have a pretty good grasp on the game. Getting into Scion at all is no simple feat, even for veterans. Give it another go with a different cabal

Ndamakong Suh spelled a little differently, but yeah, that was the inspiration.

There is no quitting in CF.


See you soon.

I can understand what happened a bit more objectively. I don't blame anyone and I would have acted differently had I known what I do now.

I still feel like I could have thrived and that I got screwed for not having OOC knowledge that could have been gained quickly in character through a little RP with leaders or IMMs. Opinions of my actions were perhaps biased as a result and the nail in the coffin was most certainly a note-sending error that admittedly was my own fault (but which was also a very understandable and forgivable mistake IMO--I mean really, put a comma between names and the note goes to nowhere, with no warning? Seems like somebody could fix that issue or at least make it more obvious in the help files).

So I should have been more focused on retrieval rather than ranking. Fair enough. A warning and a single second chance would have gone a long way, but that's not the nature of an elite cabal like Scion, it seems. That's cool. It's something to work towards. Progress and challenge are what keeps this game interesting for all of us, no doubt.

I'm going to take a break but I will likely be back soon enough...winters are too long and boring in Minnesota. And what else am I going to do with all these maps in my head?

I took a break when my outlander warrior, after discussing a plan with 6 other outlander heroes on CB, got jailed in Hamsah. I had no idea that stuff was even possible, and no one bothered to tell me for 200 hours. It's not like my character didn't scream "I'm new and I don't know what I'm doing!" Oh well, lesson learned.

A lot of times I ask questions on newbie or forums and I can feel the "how could he even think it could work that way?" vibe, but yeah, it's a completely new made-up reality and it's hard to develop "Carrion Field's common sense." Human beings mostly don't learn how to fix car engines the same way, either, but at least there, being a physical object, they have a better chance of applying common sense. If there's anything at all that most of the really helpful players and imms lack, and pretty much 99% of everyone is really helpful and friendly, it's this appreciation for how grossly hard to understand the basic stuff and assumptions of the game really is, even for people with tons of MUD, MUSH, and MMO experience. IC discussions don't really cover this sort of stuff well..it's like everyone is ignoring the big elephant in the closet.

I think what made me come back, ultimately, is that I have fun playing and I don't try to win any more, just learn and have fun. Roll with the punches, play it out, and if things get too bad, go roll a new character and have some stressless leveling fun. I think a good strategical option for you would have been to join after your duo dimension and a few other things, when you were ready to rumble. Playing caballed really is a big disadvantage for a newer player, although you do learn a lot from all that sturm and drang.

Of course, there's that big, huge, difference between good and evil on the game that everyone's mentioned. I think it's awesome that it is ruthlessly enforced, pun intended. I haven't played a serious evil char yet mostly because I don't want that experience that you had, GreatGray. It seem to me like a bunch of reasonably skilled players in the Empire recently deleted because being an evil character who can't deliver, even if the odds are stacked completely against you, is miserable. Being neutral or good is very different.

Pretty much, the most fun in any game is making OOC friends who are the same level of knowledge, and learning and talking about the game together. Most people, especially the people a game wants to keep, like figuring things out themselves with other people at their level. The sense of wonder and discovery remains, in that sort of interaction, while otherwise it's quite missing.

There's something missing here in CF, the way it is now. Newer players, including myself, really need that connection, but there isn't an OOC channel or venue for that any more, even there used to be, which I think is one reason why, despite the fact there is a bunch of inexperienced players constantly trying the game, a great bunch of the conversations on here seem to be 10 years old involving people I don't know. There aren't any new OOC connections being formed, except for these putative cheat rings. Can you imagine how much you would learn if your SCION transmuter could shoot the breeze and compare notes with a friend in battle once a week over an email. a forum discussion, a chat channel, or a beer? That's a big part of how I got good and enjoyed other games I played.

So anyway, as I have my own beer tonight and figure out how to scrap together enough gold to help me regear, here's to you, new and up and coming guy already doing better than me who I don't know but wish lots of luck with your next.

I read all and should say that I'm getting to the point you are now! I'm around for less than a year and it seems that these many experts around (or few with too many faces) always don't have a way to let you become one of them.
I don't consider myself a total noob anymore, but still have many problems like yours and many which you didn't talk about!
But I guess a good thing to overcome this (and I insist! It should be a very good partial solution) is to find an OOC friend (even another noob like me) and learn the way together! it seems that you are not a potential one as you are leaving, but I guess IMMs might be able to implement a system (even a thread in forums might do it) to gather noobs and help them find each other.

p.s. You really made the way to scions? I can't believe it. I've tried fort and nexun and it's much better and easier than what you said about them (lacks some of the challenge though). But still.. never think that I might be able to have a role and do such a good RP to enter scions!

Did you ever utilize the resources available on QHCF? The helpfiles here are alright, but QHCF can fast-track you to learning your way around the game, hardcore.

Just in case you are interested in giving it a second go, here:

www.qhcf.net


When I was still very new I sucked pretty bad, too, but QHCF really helped me onto my feet with maps, item listings, mob listings, skill/spell/special skill details, and in general all kinds of stuff.

And the other comments are right, Scion is for the Elite. I wouldn't play a Scion. Well, I would, but I'd get my ass kicked.

I know qhcf or I was out some months before! But you are much more expert than me can cover it with just qhcf's data!

I love that place, but it's true. People STILL think Soul of the Mountain gives a recharge to your health when you hit 0%. Lol.