Thu Jun 23 10:19:36 2011

At 5 o'clock AM, Day of Thunder, 3rd of the Month of the Old Forces
on the Theran calendar Banballow perished, never to return.

But I agree with everything Amaranthe and Enlilth said..

Having played "ALOT" of druids and learning their quirks from Oddjob
and Saldradien, you end up walking a very thin line with their potential power at the mid-ranks. Add in Outtie powers and they can be quite the wrecking ball early on if you know what your doing. You simply just crossed that line in regards to alignment and Outlander dogma. I get the whole sphere "anger" deal, however you have to remember that a druid is also meant to nurture the wilds and teach others to do the same. Just because gnome shifter #34892 is sitting at the square in Galadon does not mean they are a defiler to nature. I would rather seen you stick this out and seen how you evolved character wise. Live and learn and don't take this as an entirely negative experience.

Whitesun

Word... you got mid-level druid kill everything happy
(cuz it's easy to do yo!). It just didn't work out for ya. Sorry. It happens to the best of us. Keep on trucking.

The key of course is to balance it out with some overtly charitable stuff, and roleplay your butt off, cuz when the hammer comes down.. it might come down hard. Never watched the character, only saw the pk record and thought... yup... he got sidetracked.

-- Try an Enlilth follower today! Enlilth, now with 40% more chewey caramel in every bite. --

When I saw the title I figured you were on the Ancients' poop list, but this is really unexpected. I enjoyed our time together, and I could tell you enjoyed being an Outlander. All that to say, especially if you were still empowered, you could have been reinducted pretty quickly. I certainly would have had your back... oh well.

Hurry up and roll up a reaver; I still need help leveling

I liked Banballow, in char and out. I didn't get an evil vibe from you at all, rather it you seemed to be trying to play a very aggressive neutral, which Oryn could vibe with. Sphere anger makes total sense from our interactions, which were neither hollow nor unsatisfying to me as a player. I'm sad you deleted, but I also understand losing the will.

All of that being said, I'm not in a position to have any information beyond our IC interactions. It sounds like you were given some hints that you missed or something. That's a tough break. FWIW, I thought it was a good char. GLWYN

This reference is completely lost on my spouse, who has actually started calling me "Po" since my first utterance of it.

-- Try an Enlilth follower today! Enlilth, now with 40% more chewey caramel in every bite. --

Childrens programme from UK. Search 'Po' 'tellytubby'

I have no idea what I could have done to be uninducted and threatened with an align change. I don't understand why whatever imm thought something so drastic was necessary couldn't have spoken to me first. I killed Outlander enemies and anyone grouped with them, as well as anyone seeking shelter in the protected cities. I wasn't just randomly attacking everyone. I told people who didn't want to fight with me how they could avoid it. Nothing about that is evil. But there didn't seem to be any sort of avenue for appeal, or any way back either. It feels sorf of like an anonymous imm just randomly forced me to delete. Kind of crazy, but whatever. It was fun up until that point, at least.

As someone who is not an Outlander imm or involved in any way:

It really felt to me like you were trying to kill everything that moved, and I never got the sense that you were even as much as prioritizing legitimate Outlander enemies first.

To me (again, I am not an Outlander imm and my opinion bears no relation to their policy, nor should be taken as an imm endorsing anything):
Super mostly-indiscriminately murderous (but still going after Outlander enemies first/hardest) evil Outlander = cool.
Same thing as neutral: Not cool.

NT

sd

You never took the hint.

Granted, I know nothing about this char or the RP, but reading this it's not at all a surprise you got an align hit.

Saying I'll attack anyone because they are in a protected city and killing people because they travel with an orc/min/dwarf/pally/conjurer whatever are not exactly good or neutral behaviors. Using those as loose justifications to kill those people is more evil than anything, because to me it looks like you want to find reasons to kill people instead of reasons not to. Why not just say hey, you have coins, you're a slave to civilization, so I'll kill you? Or hey, you walked through galadon, I'll kill you because you're hiding in cities?

And saying to people behave this way to avoid me PKing you also seems evil, and hell, orderly too. What's next, running around making people pledge to the huntress?

Imms rarely just kick someone out and drop align for one instance of bad behavior. You want to play a murderous gnome, that's fine. Just don't be surprised if something like getting an align hit takes place.

And you were not turned evil, just dropped a notch. Outlanders, to my knowledge, are not supposed to be murder all type chars, even reavers have some constraint.

And there is always a way back. It's called RP. Is it more you don't want to put in the time to go back if you can't play in the cabal how you wanted to?

Just thoughts.

>killing people because they travel with an
>orc/min/dwarf/pally/conjurer whatever are not exactly good or
>neutral behaviors.

FWIW I don't have a problem with this so long as the killing is done while the non-enemy guy is in the same room with the outlander enemy. Like if I attack a group of three, only one of whom is an enemy, kill that guy, then his groupmates are still beating on me because they auto-assisted...I'll go ahead and kill them. If they run on foot I might chase them. If they word then I'll leave them alone. This is as a neutral; as an evil I kill them whenever I feel like it.

>And saying to people behave this way to avoid me PKing you
>also seems evil, and hell, orderly too.

Not really. Chaotic Maran might say, "If you seek redemption and get changed to neutral I won't kill you anymore." Same deal. Chaotic outlander might say, "Hey, if you stop killing forest creatures and setting the woods on fire then I'll leave you alone. If you don't then I'm killing you." That's not orderly per se.

>Outlanders, to my knowledge, are not supposed to be murder all
>type chars, even reavers have some constraint.

Reavers have very few constraints placed on them, short of not wantonly destroying nature-friendly creatures. My reaver wants to kill random uncaballed human warrior? Nothing stops me from doing that. Neutral obviously doesn't get that kind of leeway.

> My reaver
>wants to kill random uncaballed human warrior? Nothing stops
>me from doing that. Neutral obviously doesn't get that kind
>of leeway.

Yup -- unless your killing of the people you're actually supposed to be killing suffers as a result. Such as, you're spending the day chasing around random uncaballed human warrior while you have half a dozen Empire guys in range. That, I've seen people get booted for a time or three.

My approach was always to wander around doing whatever else I was doing (gathering preps, looking for gear, checking ranking spots, etc.) and if I find someone, kill them. If that guy is a cabal enemy then great. If he's not then...so what, I can kill him anyway. (Or try.)

I saw you just fight anything that moved. Even we we were like level 17 you ran after me hard as #### to kill an uncaballed fire giant on a gnome druid?

I was baffled at the RP, thought it was poor, and even your speech didn't reflect a gnome outlander.

Yeah, you gunned me down(I was playing a lowbie non-outtie enemy shaman) on the dragon sea one time ~lvl 15 with no prior interaction, no post death rp, or anything. If you were evil outtie? Stylish. But you weren't.

1> A Harbinger RP should consist of a bit more talking at times... for example... when you saw people running to hide within protected cities, did you ever speak to them of Thar-Eris, and explain how by hiding within those walls, they are hurting what you seek to see restored?

I did alot of PKing with Balta, but I also did alot of RPing... crap, I would sit and speak to spirelings about Thar-Eris if they listened (although it was usually right after we fought )

2> I didnt really witness any of your actions or circumstances for obvious reasons, but I did hear many things, and from what I heard, I too would have taken you for a Reaver if not for you being a druid/gnome.

3> This wasnt done to try and ruin your char or spoil you having a good time in the game, Whoever did it thought this was appropriate given the circumstances and the fact that some warnings were not heeded (and no, I dont know what kind of "warnings" were sent your way) but I trust that they should have been fairly obvious.

And... if you were unsure why then you should have sent up a prayer or written a note to outlander imms, someone would have explained it to you.

You definately could have gotten back into outlander. I speak from experience, I have had a char or two that has gotten the boot and made it back in..

and, well kind of late now, but the chars that stick with it and do earn their way back in, usually get a little extra loving.

Please dont let this sour you on the outlander cabal... I am actually a bit shocked that you just suddenly deleted over this...

GLWYN

Balta

And i'm not soured on Outlanders or anything like that. Sometimes thing don't work out how you hoped. That's just as much a part of the game as things going better than you expected.

I didn't talk to you because you shouldn't need to be told directly "hey, play your alignment!". You were given more than one hint. A slight align change towards evil by another imm (which I am assuming went with some kind echo or -xp, but I can't be sure), and a temp title from me that indicated that it was unfavorably noticed that you were sitting at level mid-thirtysomething and Sphere Murdering everyone.

There was also a history entry that your deity had advised you on what goals to pursue/attitudes to embrace besides killing everyone in sight that as far as I can tell went largely ignored.

I'm a benefit-of-the-doubt kind of imm, and I spent quite a bit of time watching you for weeks (along with the temp title "hint") and never saw anything to indicate an effort put into roleplaying. Nothing blatantly out of character, per se, but I had been snooping you blind all that time I don't think Banballow said/emoted a single thing that would have hinted to me that the character was a gnome. Or neutral. Or a druid. Or sphere anger. Or an Outlander. Or female. Not saying you never did, but in the hours of watching you (and trying to give you the benefit of the doubt), I never saw it.

In fact, the angry note in response to being uninducted was hands-down the most passionate attempt at roleplay I ever saw come out of the character.

The uninduction I considered fairly lenient because it was by far the least painful of the two available options. I could have just made you evil (which would have been viable), but a gnome druid turned evil is rendered inert and requires a long and tedious roleplaying road that I suspected you wouldn't be down for, and likely, the Nightreaver would have ininducted you anyways because what the hell use does he have for an inert druid?

With this outcome, all you had to do was play an uncaballed, fully functional druid for a while and get back on the path to neutrality. Your character was not exactly crippled.

But, since you didn't appear terribly invested into Banballow's character so much as an empty instrument rack up PKills, I can't say I'm shocked by your deletion.

I wished you didn't have to spend all that time watching
Banballow.

Quote "I secretly wish you would get raped or something. I feel like I lose IQ points everytime I look at it." Gaplemo

Completely unrelated post. No text to see here folks, move along.

From my point of view, everything was going fine. Then I log on to find myself uninducted and there's a note suggesting I'm going to be turned evil soon if I don't drastically change something about how I'm playing. I think I overintrepted what it meant that it happened like that. Because, to me, that suggested no one wanted to talk to me about it, and it was utterly final. It's really easy for me to read too much into text, I guess.

There was the title that you might consider a warning. Something like 'the predictable, druidess of stagnation'. But that just seemed silly to me. The game doesn't begin at hero, right? I don't think there's anything wrong with leveling slowly and fighting a lot along the way. For me, too, if I do level quickly, then I'll also get bored just as quickly at hero and delete. The title didn't even suggest anything about alignment.

We might disagree a little as well on what sort of rp is worthwhile. I don't have much interest in standing around and chatting with people. I'd rather make what my character is about clear by what she does mechanically, not what she says. In this case, a vicious sphere anger druid. One of my first characters was a conjurer that leveled along with Marcus's Outlander Chanya. She would always find my groups and someone would usualy die. After awhile, as she got more of a reputation, the moment she would log on people would mention it if we were in a group, or people I was friendly with would send tells warning me to be careful. I thought that was great. She menaced all her enemies just by logging on. No ammount of rp can create a presence like that and I think it's a really valuable thing for the game to have. I'm not even close to as deadly as Marcus, and this character seems to have been viewed more as a random murder druid, but I what I was hoping for was a little of that same sort of magic when people noticed me roaming. I don't think I did this very well, but that was the idea, at least.

Anyway, thanks very much for your response. I can see where you were comming from, for sure. I'd just suggest that you not assume that the player has anything like the same sort of information you do. I really had no idea my character was seen as an evil murder druid. I would have responded so much better to any sort of direct communication. I shouldn't have read so much into what did happen either, obviously.

(Deleted) Chanya the Mistress of Weapons $
Age: 33, Hours: 119, Align: Evil, Ethos: Chaotic

Kind of funny that you mentioned Chanya. The char I played right before her (or just after, can't remember) was a neutral outlander warrior who got turned evil for PKing too indiscriminately...

You once attacked me in Darsylon for being in the city at the same time as an Imperial. I wasn't even standing in the same room as him (I don't think) when you ran in and attacked me, I was going to barter for some booze. I tried talking to you about it and you said something about how I always travel with Imperials and defilers and blah blah. This within a few hours of me having helped Eryx retrieve the Fetish from an enemy cabal, and then every time you saw me for the next few weeks, you were on me like white on rice, even though I made every effort to avoid killing you. I mean...Come on. Really? A wood elf bard who helps Outlanders take back their item, who spends most of their time walking around alone is at the top of your list of people to attack constantly? Really?

Yeah you eventually backed off, but not until I had really just had enough of you jumping out of the bushes at me every time I tried to go exploring, and sent a note to the cabal, and had a roleplayed conversation with one of the cabal imms. But let's not pretend you were really acting like a neutral gnome druid should have been. If you had been evil, the roleplay would have been fine, great even. But nothing about you said 'neutral', and everything about you said 'I'm looking for a reason to pull the trigger on you'.

Just some constructive criticism from player to player about how your character came across. Do what you want with it. You may have had a different impression of how your character should be acting, I'm just letting you know how it looked from the other side.