I don't know if Ruairc was really that bad as paladin. One of the worst paladins (from the point of roleplaying) I remember in the history of cf was Ahrdra (played by nepenthe and since that is no secret, I can mention it here).
Locating stuff all day, going out to gather equip and refusing help nearly EVERYTIME when being asked for. I remember that very well, because the following reason:
Once, long long time ago, Twist wrote a note about the roleplaying of paladins, mentioning what kind of roleplaying the immortals would expect from a paladin.
The main points where:
- Hate evil, even dislike to stand at the same place with evil!!
- Being noble, helping young lightwalkers that need help
A few later this paladin Ahrdra appeared, was an arbiter, did not even have problems to hunt criminals together with a necromancer!! and located gear all day.
I made a newbie elf and brought myself into trouble to test Ahrdra, and when I asked very friendly if she could get me out of a no exit room in dwarven kingdom.. "busy".. "busy".. and so on.
I wrote a complain about the greedy roleplaying of Ahrdra to Twist with my newbie.. of course not knowing that Ahrdra was played by an immortal....
Well, I think the immortals do not really know themselves what kind of roleplaying they expect from paladins; or at least each immortal has a VERY different opinion about it.
Ruairc was for sure not the worst paladin ever in thera....

If I remember correctly we're talking a loooong ass time ago...which I bring up for two reasons.

1) I wasn't one of the main people watching paladins back then, now on the other hand...the above wouldn't have happened. (I'm not saying anything about Twist or Nepenthe, so don't read that into what I type...I also know very little about the example you give, so can't say nay or yay with any facts to back me)

2) There was a time long ago when people had four arms in CF, that time is gone. There was a time when I remember, vividly, that it was kosher to chat about the Simpsons on a cabal channel...this too has passed. I could continue with examples but the basic point is...CF is not the same as it once was, it's grown up. Roleplay used to be a loose word that we 'encouraged'...it's now something we require.


One more comment that I feel a need to point out, since there's more than a few hints of it spreading throughout this thread. As hard as it is to believe, imms really do play by the same rules that morts do. Sure some of us know that a staff is higher than a dagger in terms of parry....but honestly, wouldn't common sense tell you that? I've known plenty of people who have never seen the code that have tooled imms who have, and seen it happen often enough to know without a doubt that it all really comes down to skill...and nothing else. I could say a lot more about this...but it really comes down to what you want to believe.

How could you possibly know that a staff parrys better than a dagger? I bet you know where the secret beer elemental plane is as well.

Mmmmm....secret beer elemental plane...

New Invoker/Bard mix? Affinity for beermaking...

Falstaff

It's fairly clear your mind is made up and that I could be spending my time doing something more productive, such as pissing in the wind. This is all years ago, anyway.

Ahrdra didn't need to "locate gear all day", because Ahrdra died about twice. She absolutely did frequently full loot kills, but if you think she needed or kept the gear you're deluding yourself.

I'd be very surprised if you could produce an authentic log showing Ahrdra grouped with a necromancer.

Ahrdra absolutely did not have a stereotypical paladin role. I didn't set out to play an archetypal paladin, though I've done a few of them since. You'll also notice there was no paladin code at that time. I find it hard to believe that anyone would, in real life, be pathetic enough to roll test characters to see if someone would come rescue them, but if you had, it wouldn't surprise me that she let you rot. On the other hand, on several occasions she charged into fights outnumbered five to one or worse for just a chance to save a good person's life. It's all part of her unique role, her take on her sphere, and the way in which she tried to balance being a paladin and an Arbiter.

Just because a character isn't doing what you want them to doesn't mean they're not roleplaying.

nt

I was around for at least a month after that bit of cheese.

Ruairc was one of the best paladins. Yah its true anyway you help alot of people rank so I would'nt think you of a bad paladin. Was fun traveling with you, and take care

I'm glad to see you're a recovering cheater, stick with the recovery plan..it makes the game a lot more enjoyable on both sides of the coin. One bit of advice I'll drop before I move on to some explanations of questions down below...(and Nicolette's post says pretty much what I'm going to)...with me, at least, redemption is always an option. There have only been like one or two people who have screwed up IC so badly that redemption was probably next to impossible. Redemption is never easy, but 99.9% of the time, it is possible...point of fact, some of my favorite characters I've interacted with are those who slipped up and then used that as a rp tool and worked themselves back to good. I refer you to two such cases: Nicolette and Selfren. (there have been many others, but these two stick in my head at the moment)


Now for some explanation of the word 'greed' when applied to Paladins...I'm not about to give anyone a formula here, so don't expect much. It all comes down to common sense....if you doubt your own common sense, then by all means...don't play a paladin.
Gathering gear is fine, building a very nice set of eq is fine....storing enough extras in your inventory that you could equip every paladin that stepped into the guild for three hours...is VERY bad.

In most cases, yes, you would recieve a warning before being unempowered. However, Ruairc (take this as advice by the way, since I'm not trying to publicly berate you or anything) wasn't exactly the most pious or virtous of paladins...so I figured instead of warning, I'd use the unempowerment as a warning. The thing that kinda irked me more than the greed factor was the fact that most of the gear-gathering ended up getting a groupmate or two whacked in the process...and that didn't jive well with what a Shokai paladin should be doing. So it was something of a double (or triple, depending on your viewpoint) whammy.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck with your next character Ruairc...and if you do play another paladin, don't think in terms of "must kick people's ass!"...instead think in terms of "must make people think...'wow, there was a cool as hell paladin'". One thing I hate is hearing people (players and imms) grumble and mutter about how much goodies suck, and when I ask why, I hear 'because no one plays them correctly....they're just as bad as evils'. It's disheartening when that becomes the case.

well said...

I look forward to the day, if ever, I can play a paladin I would see one played...someone competent, someone to look up to, to defer to, to trust....

that's hard enough in real life...in a game? I can count these types on one hand. paladins? I don't know any, including the 2 I played, to fit this description.

I think a pal should be someone most other players look in awe to, someone where you say, 'wow, there is someone who believes in what they do'

opportunities like this are what make this game rock.

LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-02 AT 01:08 AM (CST)

>The thing that kinda irked me more than the greed factor was >the fact that most of the gear-gathering ended up getting a >groupmate or two whacked in the process.

To my recollection, the only instance (besides Nefahrin's death at the slave mines of Sitran, he didn't bring enough seaweed, how can you fault me for that?) of someone's death while I got gear was at the kuo-toa king. Kadeem, Theerkla, Daurwyn, and... hm, some alligator shifter (sorry, I can't remember your name!). Four deaths is four deaths too many, aye. But 'most of the gear-gathering' was done by me alone, or with an invoker. And unless I am sorely mistaken, that involved no deaths. We did go to Whistlewood swamp once, and I believe I was the one that died, because I was unwilling to escape and let my companions perish in my stead. Noble enough for you? I guess not.

>storing enough extras in your inventory that you could equip >every paladin that stepped into the guild for three hours...is >VERY bad.

I will stand adamant that I did not hoard gear. I'll tell the most that I had in my inventory that I did not intend to give away (and I did give a lot of what I didn't need away to other paladins and comrades).

Some noremove slash/slice/cleave attack sword in case whatever I was fighting was immune to divine power.
2 periapts.
A girdle with various prep items.
Some other gauntlets in case I didn't want the blademaster's gloves draining all my mana.
A drink container.
Hide of the Ancient White Dragon (for fighting Tilaen, which <some nameless thief> promptly stole).

If you can _honestly_ believe (and I think that both you and I know that you are exaggerating in your above qutote) that I was hoarding gear, you are very mistaken. From time to time I held on to nice pieces of gear for friends of mine, namely friends that had helped me get the damnned sword.

Now, for the other important topic.
As whoever first responded to your post stated, playing a true Paladin is nearly a myth. Heroes of legend and lore (not the damnned fairy tale ones mind you) almost all had character flaws. These character flaws can make the hero very interesting and fun to play. I believe that I got the short end of the stick here, and that you held me to a silly standard. Now I'm only speaking out of one perspective, of course. Yet still, I am required of myself to ask how I failed so miserably that I would get unempowered and given a discraceful title. Was it my selfishness? I answered calls of distress very often, as many will maintain. Was it my Greed? I rarely kept an inventory full of stuff that I didn't need. I generally gave it away to those that could use it. Now, lets say I'm going on a mission to the Inferno to explore some and to get some gear (hell, who goes down there not to at least get some gear?). Unless we make it all the way through (and I've never been down there, so I really don't know what I'm talking about), we're going to die. By logic, a very unShokai-paladin thing to do. Would I get unempowered for that as well? In a recent event, MaranHopeful and Maran1 raided the Chasm. In reports from a source undisclosed, Maran1 failed to act on numerous opportunities and as a result, MaranHopeful was killed. A very unShokai-paladin thing to do, I would imagine. I am no judge of Maran1's character, but would not this merit a warning, if my actions merited a severe 'warning'? Now, before I start calling the kettle black, I'll state that I'm just a little confused, and feel a little cheated. Am I justified? I guess I'll never know. But character flaws are an ingrained part of human life, and I'm not talking about the silly quirks of a character. You must have known about all the bad things I did, and few of the good. Otherwise, I can find no reasonable arguement for the ground of my desmise, other than that you deemed it so. Which, sadly, is not enough for me.

Again, I maintain that I did not hoard gear under any circumstances, I prayed constantly regarding many instances of what I have done and what I feel. The only responce I got was the horrible images in my blade, finally reflecting the damnned state that my soul was in. A bitter ending, and after almost 250 hours of no Immortal contact, you'd better believe I'm not going to wait another 250.

Hmm. First you agreed that you were nothing but a gear-gatherer, now you seem to want to argue it. Maybe Shokai is wrong, maybe the imms were watching at all the wrong times. Maybe you really weren't as bad as some people think.

I think that Shokai didn't do what he did to be a jerk. It's my opinion that he noticed some sketchy things (or someone else) and tried to set you in the right direction. Paladins are empowerment classes, which means that they are subject to the whim of their God at all times. If he saw you mess up the *only* time you did, which I just highly doubt, then he's still right. Take it is a learning tool. What better way to get back at Shokai then to show him that you really aren't greedy and make him re-empower you, retitle you, and maybe even tattoo you?

My best advice: Let this one go, you did some really good things as a Paladin, but if you do some bad things too... Well then you didn't do your job roleplaying a Paladin. If you can get a good idea of what the concept of chivalry is about, that's the best place to start when roleplaying a paladin. Most of the Paladin Code has to do with respect. Respect yourself and your comrades, and even your enemies. If you ever think that your doing something might be disrespectful or borderline, don't do it.

I have a feeling that your next character is going to learn from these mistakes, but I wouldn't recommend playing a Paladin just yet. Take a break and come out with your Paladin with the mind frame: "I'm really going to show people what being a Paladin is all about." I'd recommend not playing a Shokai paladin either, try something with not so much of a combat aspect (though played properly, combat is probably inevitable) so you can really get into your role instead of raiding/retrieving all the time.

Nicolette

>Hmm. First you agreed that you were nothing but a gear-gatherer, now you seem to want to argue it.

I know I may sound confusing here, and I'm still sorting through my thoughts. As a recovering cheater, I've come to the understanding that the Immortals are supreme beings, and that I should be in agreeance with them at all times. At the point of my demise, I humbly accepted my punishment and made a decision not to keep going. I could've, but I really didn't feel like it. However, reflecting upon my initial words that I spoke here, I don't believe that I did myself justice the first time around. Not only did I accept the decree of the heavens, I preached it. In addition, I am not in any terms defining Shokai a 'jerk' for his actions. I am, however, filling in the gaps that I left in my initial post, believe it or not.

>but if you do some bad things too... Well then you didn't do your job roleplaying a Paladin. If you can get a good idea of what the concept of chivalry is about, that's the best place to start when roleplaying a paladin.

In my opinion, the personification of chivalry (and the closest thing to a paladin) in legend would be Lancelot. Chivalrous in action, noble in deed. Yet he still managed to bang Arthur's wife. Nobody's perfect.

" I am, however, filling in the gaps that I left in my initial post, believe it or not."

I'll take NOT.

You blatantly admitted being nothing but a gear whore, sorry you can't just take that back.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

I didn't say that I'm refuting what I stated earlier, but that I am expanding upon subjects that I neglected in my initial post. If you feel like you have some personal grudge against what Ruairc was, then just go out and say it instead of tossing out snide accusations over a public forum as an outside critic. You have something to say? Fine. You don't care that I may or may not care? Fine. You want to make an issue out of it? Then refine your argument to include more than a rash statement.

Snide accusations? Rash statements? You admitted to it plain and simple, that's not an accusation or a rash statement. Then you tried to take it all back, not expand on it. How do you refine an arguement down to more then just one statement like I made? Don't blame me because YOU admitted to being a gear whore.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

>I was gear-crazy from day one!

I loved my equipment. However, I didn't hoard equipment (even though some Imms will apparently testify otherwise, sadly). I gave away equipment. I didn't outfit every newbie that asked for gear because it would not be within my character (this was NOT motivated by greed, if you want to ask why, then ask. If you want to speculate, speculate within reason). Where did I 'try to take it all back'? Having initially admitted my guilt, I touched on other subjects, only to be flamed by ORB here for trying. Well, bladder's empty. You win.

...or was there some mystery flaming here, by my evil twin Floofi, that I missed. I didn't state that you hoarded gear. The example I used of a paladin hoarding gear...was not aimed at you.

As whoever first responded to your post stated, playing a true Paladin is nearly a myth. Heroes of legend and lore (not the damnned fairy tale ones mind you) almost all had character flaws. These character flaws can make the hero very interesting and fun to play.

You're talking classic 'tragic hero' here, right? Yeah, they all had flaws...and that flaw was ultimately what did them in, and what kept them from being perfect.

I believe that I got the short end of the stick here, and that you held me to a silly standard. Now I'm only speaking out of one perspective, of course. Yet still, I am required of myself to ask how I failed so miserably that I would get unempowered and given a discraceful title.

You haven't dealt with me much in the past have you? It may not be the best way, but it's the way that works for me, but I rarely give warnings...instead I do what I did with you, and then let you work yourself back. I'm big on redemption....maybe it's the recovering Catholic in me...but I've always thought it's far cooler for someone to fall and then pick themself back up...that for someone to start off perfect.

Now, lets say I'm going on a mission to the Inferno to explore some and to get some gear (hell, who goes down there not to at least get some gear?). Unless we make it all the way through (and I've never been down there, so I really don't know what I'm talking about), we're going to die. By logic, a very unShokai-paladin thing to do. Would I get unempowered for that as well?

Now you're being silly.

In a recent event, MaranHopeful and Maran1 raided the Chasm. In reports from a source undisclosed, Maran1 failed to act on numerous opportunities and as a result, MaranHopeful was killed. A very unShokai-paladin thing to do, I would imagine. I am no judge of Maran1's character, but would not this merit a warning, if my actions merited a severe 'warning'?

I'd have to know the specfics of what you're talking about to know what went down, and what, if anything I'd do about it. Failing to keep a fellow lightwalker alive during a raid and failure to keep a fellow alive while gathering gear...well, we're talking apples and oranges. Both, admittedly are mistakes, and who knows...maybe I just got the wrong impression of Ruairc's attitude IC when things went down than you meant to convey.


Now, before I start calling the kettle black, I'll state that I'm just a little confused, and feel a little cheated. Am I justified? I guess I'll never know. But character flaws are an ingrained part of human life, and I'm not talking about the silly quirks of a character. You must have known about all the bad things I did, and few of the good. Otherwise, I can find no reasonable arguement for the ground of my desmise, other than that you deemed it so. Which, sadly, is not enough for me.

Character flaws are fine, I like character flaws....character flaws that go against the basic nature of the character....when there isn't rp'd conflict....enh, that's a lot to swallow. Imagine if once or twice Ruairc had sat fretting in the guild greatly desiring Defiance...yet knowing that much blood would spill if he went for it...*that* is roleplaying a flaw. I'll also point out that it wasn't my intent for you to go to your grave unempowered and heinously titled....since as I've stated once or twice before, I dig redemption.

>You haven't dealt with me much in the past have you?
Never.

>instead I do what I did with you, and then let you work yourself back. I'm big on redemption....maybe it's the recovering Catholic in me...but I've always thought it's far cooler for someone to fall and then pick themself back up...that for someone to start off perfect.

Oh I would completely agree. A fantastic base for a compelling story. But... why wait 15,000 minutes of active play time? For anything? Even a word (which I never got)? 289 hours for a character who plays everyday tries alot and screws up at times deserves... oh, I don't know... five minutes (I've never been to the kuo-toa king before, I had no clue what to expect the first time around, which was nothing compared to the second time around, ie. calling priests every other round)? Is that too much? Sorry, but I haven't won the lottery yet so I've still got to have a job and go to school. Time is somewhat precious, and I dislike the fact that I have to hate what you did, because I felt like I had to start all over again. You gave me no foundation to build upon because you didn't give me any feedback!

>Imagine if once or twice Ruairc had sat fretting in the guild greatly desiring Defiance...yet knowing that much blood would spill if he went for it...*that* is roleplaying a flaw.

Again, I had no clue what to expect from the king.

Alright, I guess I'm just beating a dead horse from this point on. I'll part with this. Sorry for screwing up. I had no idea you are such an unforgiving God (lord knows I prayed many times about it). Sorry for wasting your time with my inexperience with empowerment characters. I've never had any character past 150 hours before, and I thought I covered a lot of ground with Ruairc. Only to have it crumble away before my very eyes in the reflection of that bloody sword. Eek! Sounding bitter again...
I love to play. I love to have fun. I also prefer to have an inkling of what to expect. Well... 290 hours later, I do (and seriously, after 250 hours of no Shokai, I had no idea how long I would have to wait again for another divine intervention).

Trial by fire...

You gave me no foundation to build upon because you didn't give me any feedback!

I'm not the best imm to follow of you're looking for a lot of feedback. Some that I would suggest to you (from my own personal experience) that are, however, Valguarnera, Thror, Yanoreth, Savraeth. Not that these are the only ones, just folks that I've either watched a lot when they interact with morts, or I've played morts who have followed them. (I left out a few who I know are busy at the moment). I give you this list mainly because I like encouraging people to keep trying.

Good luck with whatever you try next.

>Some that I would suggest
>to you (from my own
>personal experience) that are, however,
>Valguarnera, Thror, Yanoreth, Savraeth.

Can I tell Valguarnera, "Floofi sent me," when he answers my paladin's prayer for empowerment?

I argued this before, but I always felt that Defiance was a trapped soul. If you explain the risk in advance and what you hope to gain is it your fault that others fall while completing the mission? In the Marine Corps we have two goals mission accomplishment and troop welfare and in that order. I could see how if properly briefed and people die it is still exceptable, because they knew the risk in advance. Just my view on it.

Xanth is back from vacation Cloudcroft is nice this time of year.

Not quite sure what to say but...bye.

Ah well, I will miss you. You were fun to be around. I didnt think what we did was greedy but it does not matter I play the game to have fun. Perhaps when I feel like playing a gnomish paladin I will get back into Alb, till then lets see how many paladins can suffer the same faith!

The one and only Pantless Advenger,
~Honest Alb

In what way must a Paladin be "greedy" in order to be unempowered?

Not getting virtues I can understand. If none of your time is spent doing Paladin-ly things then you don't get the reward for it.

Likewise, if you egregiously violate your role-play in order to get or retain gear, you get unempowered.

But what if you just accumulate a kick-ass set *while* role-playing well and doing Paladin-ly things? Is someone going to look at you and say, "Gee, this Paladin has too much stuff in his inventory and too much copper. Unempower!" or does it take more than that?

Paladins are supposed to retain a vow of poverity somewhat. In other words, if they get gear once in a while that can help them, then its fine, if they get stacked, but don't spend their entire time on it, ok, however...If they are decked out in gold and spend 90% of their time doing that instead of being a beacon of the light then they simply aren't maintaining that vow. It would be unfair to make paladins required to wear shitty gear, just don't take advantage of that and use it as an excuse to go to Sitran and Octagonal Tower every 5 minutes. As far as I know, its more like, Hrm, five scion evils in his range, and here is is with the rest of the goodies grabbing prayer beads instead of saving Thera, then its Oh, he's doing it *again* what the hell kind of paladin is this? Then it's unempower *****, tell ***** You suck., title **** '**** the Greedy bastard'.

So the issue isn't the set he had, its that he spent every waking moment getting it.

Out of curiosity, do imms typically give "warnings" before doing something as drastic as unempowerment and/or giving someone a crappy title? That would seem like it might put someone back on the straight and narrow...

Well, Paladins are the strictest of the classes to play. Some people might remember that Nicolette had the title 'Slayer of Innocents' at around level 11. You can read about it in the Lyceum for more details. Needless to say I screwed up once, and I got unempowered and titled with about the worst thing a paladin could be titled. And my alignment was switched to neutral.

What I did do however, was really repent. It made it easier that I had a goddess that was willing to work with me though. Shokai is not really the best god to screw up in front of. His Maran's greatest obstacle is to not become what they fight against, and it appears at least to an extent Ruairc did. My Goddess Amaranthe was a neutral Goddess, and she while she put Nicolette through torture, Nic perservered IC and finally made her way to Asgaard.

I really learned from that mistake and I think I did a good job with the character. Paladins are the strictest class to play, they are really the only class that has a set of relatively clear boundaries of what's right and wrong. Therefore they are the easiest to mess up. Try to never mess up, but if you do, why not use it to become better?

You hear countless screams as the faces of your dying friends appear in your blade. (or something like that)

Unfortunately I guess I got unempowered just seconds afterwards. Not much of a warning.

If I recall correctly, Leika spent an obscene amount of time getting the 'perfect' set. Her praises were sung high and hard.

>If I recall correctly, Leika spent
>an obscene amount of time
>getting the 'perfect' set.
>Her praises were sung high
>and hard.


everyone knows there are double standards for imm chars

Ah, the ArChaos rule: "Any characters who excel OBVIOUSLY couldn't have gotten it for their own merits, and all of MY underappreciated characters are CLEARLY the victims of mean old imms."

None of which matters because Leika wasn't an immortal while playing Leika, and from everything I saw, was one of the standout roleplayers of mid/late 2000. Certainly my favorite mortal enemy to exchange philosophy and barbs with.

She certainly wasn't sacrificing her companions for gear, etc. Read Ruairc's post at the post of this thread. It's a lot more frank than the other claims in this thread. And take your bitter elsewhere. It's not welcome here.

From the pen of:
valguarnera@carrionfields.com">Valguarnera Trisseptia

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I certainly didn't have the death of my companions in mind when we set out. Nearly half of the time it was because people just plain screwed up. A common occurance of this was shifters forgetting to cast water breathing on themselves after they revert. I suppose I'm to blame, eh?

Dall's post raised some interesting questions. Needless to say, I can't imagine we'd ever get a valid response to them, even if you guys did leave it up. If it was removed because his post held no substance of merit, then why not remove half of the posts under this thread? If it was removed in defensive posturing, how can you advocate Immortal Honesty when a question is raised regarding it, you banish it? If it was truely offensive and character-assassination-ish (although I haven't seen Gareth or Leika for a very long time), then forgive me.

If you think a current immortal is cheating, report it to the implementors. If you think an implementor is cheating, report it to the other 5 implementors. If you think all 6 implementors cheat, you should play elsewhere.

Don't bother filling up this board with unfounded speculation.

From the pen of:
valguarnera@carrionfields.com">Valguarnera Trisseptia

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Get it through your head... IMMS are responsible for
mud getting an increasingly bad rep. Don't try to hide
it stating no one will listen to you and such. The facts
are more and more players are becoming rather annoyed
with the way the cocky imms mess with the players in a
negative way.

Right. It couldn't possibly be your fault, Aubrey. You're perfect.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-02 AT 09:20 PM (CST)

Get it through your head... IMMS are responsible for
mud getting an increasingly bad rep. Don't try to hide
it stating no one will listen to you and such. The facts
are more and more players are becoming rather annoyed
with the way the cocky imms mess with the players in a
negative way.

Despite all of your ##### cheating, we've yet to ban you...I'd say it's hard to call unfair when after busting you at least 6 times for cheating (and cheating stupidly)...you're still playing the game. Posts like the one you make cause the bile to rise to the top of my throat. You keep insisting that it's our fault, and that we never listen to you, and yada-####ing-blah blah blah. Give it a rest, huh? The day you can play something other than an elven conjie that doesn't cheat...is the day I will take your advice seriously...mmm-kay?


I apologize for the blatant flaming here, folks.

> I apologize for the blatant
>flaming here, folks.

As an unappointed representative of the newbies-who-don't-cheat circle (and perhaps the ass-kissers guild), I would just like to say "keep up the good work." The more you Shlt on these people, the happier I'll be.

What about elven healers that cheat?

>LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-02
>AT 09:20 PM (CST)
>
>
>Get it through your head... IMMS
>are responsible for
>mud getting an increasingly bad rep.
>Don't try to hide
>it stating no one will listen
>to you and such. The
>facts
>are more and more players are
>becoming rather annoyed
>with the way the cocky imms
>mess with the players in
>a
>negative way.
>
Typical response from the IMM himself you has pissed off
many of the decent roleplayers. Ruairc, and several others.
You imms don't have a clue at all? It is just not Aubrey
who is pissed at you all...it is a ever increasingly number
of newbies and players who have been around for awhile.

So you imms know...Aubrey was my last on cf...so celebrate
all you wish.

Aubrey.
> Despite all of your #####
>cheating, we've yet to ban
>you...I'd say it's hard to
>call unfair when after busting
>you at least 6 times
>for cheating (and cheating stupidly)...you're
>still playing the game. Posts
>like the one you make
>cause the bile to rise
>to the top of my
>throat. You keep insisting that
>it's our fault, and that
>we never listen to you,
>and yada-####ing-blah blah blah. Give
>it a rest, huh? The
>day you can play something
>other than an elven conjie
>that doesn't cheat...is the day
>I will take your advice
>seriously...mmm-kay?
>
>
> I apologize for the blatant
>flaming here, folks.

Am I the only one who has wondered whether Aubrey is a fictitious personality made up to screw with the staff's collective head?

I think that's the "C" theory. "A" being "is 8", and "B" being "plays from an asylum". "D" is "is 3 orders of magnitude smarter than any other human, and we just can't follow his amazing logic". A, B, and C are not mutually exclusive.

Wait. You have Shokai swearing at you? He's the nice one!

In related news to this thread, player numbers are at least constant, and probably increasing slightly, hitting the 120's during peak times.

Aubrey played roughly 8 hours per day as Aubrey, until his untimely demise due to blatant cheating with one of his other characters, Skylaur. I suspect it isn't the last we'll see of him.

Despite the claims to the contrary, which have existed ever since I started playing, no signs point to CF being in decline. Actually, when Project *censored* and the changes to *crossed out* go in, I suspect good times will be had by all.

Well, almost all.

In an amazing feat of conjuration, Aubrey summons forth a towering elemental of rancid fecal matter...in a colossal stroke of bad luck, she is buried by it a second later.

Digging Aubrey's corpse out with his bare hands, Snorg, the Orcish God of Necessary Overkill, beats it repeatedly with the lifeless husk of Skylaur.

Damn you, Shokai, for not including echoes #3-5. Your squadron of loyal smaller Immortals whimpers, ensaddened. We'll save them for next time.

From the pen of:
valguarnera@carrionfields.com">Valguarnera Trisseptia, Fearful of All Things Floofi

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>Despite the claims to the contrary,
>which have existed ever since
>I started playing, no signs
>point to CF being in
>decline. Actually, when Project
>*censored* and the changes to
>*crossed out* go in, I
>suspect good times will be
>had by all.
>

*squints* Did that say "spears"? Can anyone make that out?

DwE. }>

"Digging Aubrey's corpse out with his bare hands, Snorg, the Orcish God of Necessary Overkill, beats it repeatedly with the lifeless husk of Skylaur"

I like this quote almost enough to roll up a follower of Snorg...

*toasts Valguarnera*

Falstaff

>Am I the only one who
>has wondered whether Aubrey is
>a fictitious personality made up
>to screw with the staff's
>collective head?

Nope, I've thought of it my damn self

Wemnar Sur'Hamma, Master Smith

>So you imms know...Aubrey was my
>last on cf...so celebrate
>all you wish.
>
>Aubrey.

Oh. You won't mind if I go ahead and deny the characters you "aren't playing" then. The one you had logged on at the time that post was written, for example.

No, it's never the players!! My ass! How much cheating can possibly go on!? Tons and it's mainly on the players behalf.

Granted the IMMs are not perfect and IMM characters are usually powerhouses simply due to code knowledge (this is something I can live with since these IMMs are usually fairly responsible with these characters, few and far between and don't upset the balance of the game or exploit things too badly.) I am sure Zorszaul could have been a lot worse if he wished.

So now, players feel justified to cheat as a way of getting back at the Imms. Two wrongs does not make a right. It's to the point were a new player to the MUD is royally fucked. There is no way he is gonna be able to cope with the ##### that is going on. I can hardly do it and I've been here from the beginning.

Let the IMM conspiracy theory die already. I have never been fucked by an IMM (talked down to by some childish ones once or twice however), nor seen a blatant abuse of power that was not justified by an IMM. Blame the players if anything.

But some of the blame does indeed lie with the IMMs:
This goes to Valg. I got totally fed up with the OOC ##### and I reported a cheater as you had suggested to me. You know what happened? His char got summoned to the realm of the dead and left there for a few days because no IMM would deal with him. He then died in the realm of the dead and looted all his kit with his up and coming lowbie from the pit, LOL. Now that is Poetic Justice, cheating to get out of being punished for cheating.
An honest player just cannot win in this game, sad but true.

I think the only thing left to do is leave CF unfortunately. I've exhausted all other avenues I am afraid. My game of choice has become too polluted and it can't recover (I've been an independent character for 6 years staying away from the OOC cheating that goes on in cabals but that no longer works I'm afraid, indpendents just cannot cope anymore). I tried switching to another game for a while, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, but the other day as I watched from another person's view after I had died, I noticed his health regenerating just standing there. Sigh, hundred bucks down the drain again.

*sniff* looks like I'm stuck playing LAN's for the rest of my life it seems. I would rather not play if I cannot simply know if others have beat me fairly or needed to cheat to do it. Can any of you?

>How much cheating can
>possibly go on!? Tons and
>it's mainly on the players
>behalf.

This is so abundantly true. In the past two days I've had different people ask me:

1) If I wanted gear from a char they no longer wanted,
2) If I wanted to take over a char they no longer wanted,
3) If I am currently playing "anyone who can induct",
4) If I have a high ranking character who equip them.


>I am sure Zorszaul could
>have been a lot worse
>if he wished.

Definitely.


>It's to the
>point were a new player
>to the MUD is royally
>fucked. There is no way
>he is gonna be able
>to cope with the #####
>that is going on. I
>can hardly do it and
>I've been here from the
>beginning.

Yes and no. Newbies are obviously at a distinct disadvantage. What I'm not convinced of, however, is that it's any worse now than it was "back in the day".


> I've been an independent
>character for 6 years staying
>away from the OOC cheating
>that goes on in cabals
>but that no longer works
>I'm afraid, indpendents just cannot
>cope anymore).

This is mostly why I responded. At least at the sub-35 ranks it is more than possible to do well for yourself as a loner. This is certainly nothing to brag about, but my last few characters (evil human assassin, good human assassin, drow thief and elf thief) have all done quite well for themselves gear-wise while working almost *completely* alone and not exploiting any ooc connections. Now you could argue that I'd have gotten trashed if I'd ranked all the way to hero, but I'm not entirely conviced that's the case.

Of course, it does help to be able to hide...

This is so abundantly true. In the past two days I've had different people ask me:

1) If I wanted gear from a char they no longer wanted,
2) If I wanted to take over a char they no longer wanted,
3) If I am currently playing "anyone who can induct",
4) If I have a high ranking character who equip them.

This has been said before, but: If this happens, especially if a character name is given, feel free to tip us off that something untoward may happen. We'll keep an eye.

You aren't allowed to complain about cheating, if you are supporting it by looking the other way for others. Play clean, and make others do the same.

From the pen of:
valguarnera@carrionfields.com">Valguarnera Trisseptia

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>This has been said before, but:
> If this happens, especially
>if a character name is
>given, feel free to tip
>us off that something untoward
>may happen. We'll keep
>an eye.

The requests I mentioned typically come from people whose characters I don't know, meaning there's nothing substantive to report. I could probably con the names from them and report the abuse, but they would no doubt wise up and simply stop talking to me.

Then again, that might not be a bad thing.

The requests I mentioned typically come from people whose characters I don't know, meaning there's nothing substantive to report. I could probably con the names from them and report the abuse, but they would no doubt wise up and simply stop talking to me.

Then again, that might not be a bad thing.

Correct on all counts. There's a critical mass here- if enough skilled players, yourself included, make a decision to play fairly, the characters have to work within a smaller crowd, which makes catching them easier, which makes removing them easier, which makes cheating harder, which.....

They need you a lot more than you need them, anyway. Having interacted with a few of your characters, I suspect it would take you longer to find the guy on IRC/etc. who can sneak you an easy induct somehow.... than to just do the interview and leave them impressed.

Ditto for gear. I allegedly suck, and I know I can reliably gear a character of any level/alignment in a short period of time (*) with reasonably good stuff (and kill for better from there). Doubly so if it's been a while since a reboot, and I can put my scavenger skills to work.

From the pen of:
valguarnera@carrionfields.com">Valguarnera Trisseptia

(*) Some sad sack will inevitably claim this is because I'm an Immortal. I'll point out in advance that I was much better at finding gear before I was an Immortal, because I spent all my CF time playing CF, instead of working on invoker spells, fancy corpses, disarm stuff, quests, areas, socials, tattoo, religion, a few dozen quest spells, and busting the 438th idiot cheater who is multi-charing Camelot gear that is lying on the ground in Camelot, then lying about having done it.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>This has been said before, but:
> If this happens, especially
>if a character name is
>given, feel free to tip
>us off that something untoward
>may happen. We'll keep
>an eye.
>
>You aren't allowed to complain about
>cheating, if you are supporting
>it by looking the other
>way for others. Play
>clean, and make others do
>the same.

Valg, did you not read what I wrote? I did do this and the guy cheated again to get out of it for Christ sakes and now he's better off then before I reported him! You all did nothing about it. I'll never report anyone again if this is all that happens. Obviously someone who has two ways to connect to the internet is immune to repercussions. Oh well, I play clean and try and make others as well but I have failed miserably.

Brotmin, yes I have had a caballed character that has made an impact but it was an IMM run cabal which is all I will ever join. At least the corruption is somewhat smaller in these cabals. I know of two many people who know/are leaders and get inducted for this and that and get this piece of equipment together or gangbang so and so for his mask of anazu or all log in together blah, blah, blah. Yeah, I play clean and at least I can say I did it legitimately, but that's a small comfort when I then have to deal with all the other crap out there by over half the players that do cheat (including getting gangbanged and full looted by OOC buddies of course). I've tried to become apathetic and just ignore it and so far I have been pretty successful at it, but it keeps eating away at me. Why should I have to compromise my experience here to cheating losers? What gives them the right to ##### with my game? Nothing can be done about this and it just doesn't seem right. Ease of Communication and disemination of info has been a curse and death to mudding.

Isildur, true, the effect of cheaters doesn't have much of an impact sub 35, except maybe that super equipped character that obliterates his pk. But what do you think I have done for 6 years? I've had a dozen characters' hearts explode and now I've had a few chars get distended badly, including Strohm. I have a solid grasp on pking and am a reasonable role player but sub 35 characters are no longer a challenge to me and distention will see to it that I will have to rank anyway so that is out the window. I'm gonna have to face the OOC crap eventually and its crap that, if more people were of decent moral fiber, I would not have to.

Simply put, I have just run out of options and my patience is near exhaustion. I don't know what to do. Trying to put it out of mind worked for a little while, but like I said, it keeps eating away at me and bothers me. I think an extended break from CF might help. Unfortunately, the game changes so much so fast, that when I come back, I will be hugely handicapped not knowing where certain items have been moved to and so on. Consequently, I'm not gonna enjoy getting raped by everyone when I do come back since I will suffer in the knowledge department so badly. (Let's face it, CF has become a game where knowledge is paramount to success. Knowing how to fight no longer wins fights, it's how to prep for the fights that determines the victor). So now, part of me wants to take a break, but part of me is scared to because I will be too much out of the loop when I come back and may never recover without cheating which I never want to do. I am still recovering from my last break of a year and that was several years ago. I am afraid I may just have to say goodbye to a game I have fallen in love with because it no longer resembles that game in any way shape or form. (And I strongly believe that the game today is nothing like it was "in the day". It has changed hugely in the last three years.)
Oh well, if anyone else feels the same way, I'd like to hear how you have coped. Feel free to drop a post.

>Valg, did you not read what
>I wrote? I did do
>this and the guy cheated
>again to get out of
>it for Christ sakes and
>now he's better off then
>before I reported him!

It is possible that this was merely an oversight on the part of the staff. Maybe there was some miscommunication or someone simply forgot about it. Were I in your position I'd have reported the guy again and given them his new char's name. Or simply written down both character's names in my little black book and killed them *repeatedly* when they came into PK.


>I know of two
>many people who know/are leaders
>and get inducted for this
>and that and get this
>piece of equipment together
>or gangbang so and so
>for his mask of anazu
>or all log in together
>blah, blah, blah.

This shouldn't be necessary, of course, but there's a reason I've been playing hiding classes recently. As someone who primarily enjoys running around solo, being able to hide greatly reduced the extent to which I am bothered by gangs. Plus, if you played an assassin, you could possibly take down one of these cheating bastards in one fail swoop.


> including getting
>gangbanged and full looted by
>OOC buddies of course).

Let me first say that I'm not doubting your experience on this one. However, since I become ultra-paranoid over the last few characters it has been reasonably easy for me to avoid gangs for the sole reason that I see them coming (and always have on hand a means of escape). There are, of course, certain scenarios where it is almost impossible to escape, but these are definitely in the minority (multiple air forms, snare/gang, nightgaunt/gang, etc.)


>Isildur, true, the effect of cheaters
>doesn't have much of an
>impact sub 35, except maybe
>that super equipped character that
>obliterates his pk.

*nods at Skorth*

(note: I'm not saying he cheats, just that he's scary and seems to obliterate his PK)

Then again, sometimes I'm happy when people pass gear to their lowbies since it means I can take it from their corpse when I kill them.


>I've had a dozen characters'
>hearts explode and now I've had
>a few chars get distended
>badly, including Strohm. I have
>a solid grasp on pking
>and am a reasonable role
>player but sub 35 characters
>are no longer a challenge
>to me and distention will
>see to it that I
>will have to rank anyway
>so that is out the
>window.

I now divide a warrior-type character's life into three phases. Early (1-20), middle (20-35) and late (35-51). In the early time I mainly master things and *maybe* PK if my class has its "important" skills at that point. During the middle phase I kill a bunch of people and try to get a good set, ranking when I have to in order to un-distend. Then, when I'm good and ready, push on through to hero and just try to stay alive. Unfortunately I was careless with my last few characters and lost my set prematurely which, unfortunately, had the side effect of motivating me to delete. (I'm working on it, honest. I have a problem.)


>I think an extended break
>from CF might help. Unfortunately,
>the game changes so much
>so fast, that when I
>come back, I will be
>hugely handicapped not knowing where
>certain items have been moved
>to and so on.

I think a break would be a very good thing. Regaining item knowledge wouldn't be *too* hard upon coming back, though you might have to play a caballed non-loner character in order to get it back "fairly".

I am not JAH (he has been the subject of enough discussion here for the past two days)-- but someone who has access to the same computer, who has followed this discussion and who has played CF as a perennial newbie (no character ever higher than 17 -- not enough time) for about two years now.

For heaven's sake, people, get a life! I am reading posts in which the writers are agonizing about a computer game. Oh, the principles are important enough -- cheating, morality, playing by the rules -- I will grant you that. But when I look at the hours and hours that it takes to get anywhere in this game, and the amount of cheating and bellyaching that goes on, the sense I get is that there are some seriously screwed up priorities in here somewhere.

It's a GAME. Play it (fairly, of course), have some fun, and MOVE ON. There is a hell of a lot more to life than fictitious conflicts with fictitious characters. Go live some of it and find out.

Would it be possible to add a button to just repost these last two paragraphs. That'd save a bunch of newbie time, as I think that I've read this same post on three different sites now in multiple forums.

"If you'd like to complain about the lack of a life by CF's players even though you aren't one, please press one"

-Falstaff

if I could see your address anywhere.

>I think the only thing left
>to do is leave CF
>unfortunately. I've exhausted all other
>avenues I am afraid. My
>game of choice has become
>too polluted and it can't
>recover (I've been an independent
>character for 6 years staying
>away from the OOC cheating
>that goes on in cabals
>but that no longer works
>I'm afraid, indpendents just cannot
>cope anymore).

Simply put, things aren't as bad as you think. I almost always play caballed characters, and got a character given a title and a semi-leadership position... without knowing any imms unless you count one who I haven't talked to in a year, who probably doesn't even realize who I am... without talking to any decently active players OOC, having only two current CF players I talk with OOC, one who barely was on at all at that time and had no interaction with Scion, and the other who has Jhyrbian syndrome, so none of his characters ever lives long enough to have any influence... and reading the forums, but making a conscious effort to not post as Brotmin even to farewells, so that no one could figure out who I was, nor going on IRC.

Now, I'm not saying there's no OOC cheating going on, of course. But I am saying it's quite possible to join cabals and have a real effect, without OOC connections. Hell, you'd be surprised how many game "secrets" you can get people to tell you IC if you get their respect. And while I think I'm better than average, there're far better players around than me.

Don't count this MUD out yet.

Aside from one email from Shokai in response to me complaining about not getting into a new character I have had no ooc immortal interactions. I had an early title, a tattoo and was a Maran before level 20. I would have also had a good PK ratio if it wasn't part of Warborf's role to run headlong into things. It can definatly be done, and is more rewarding in the end.

In Castle Wolfenstein multi-player, if you play the medic your health DOES SLOWLY regenerate. It is part of their abilities you idiot. And if you paid 100 bucks for Castle wolfenstein you are shopping at the wrong place.

Go

No, he was a soldier and was using a hack and when I confronted him he didn't denie it. The point is moot though, all games develop hacks by losers who can't win fairly and need to cheat to feel better about themselves, this game included.

And no, I didn't pay 100 bucks for the game, they threw it in when I bought my new computer. Generally I do BUY my games however (Gasp). Not only is it the honest thing to do, I have a full-time job and life and can afford it. When one gets older and more mature, one can hope he stops wondering how to get ahead and ##### everybody over in order that he save a few bucks to go spend it on booze, drugs and smokes. Basically he starts enjoying life for what it is and stops worrying about how much he can get for free. Then again, some of us never grow up. If having short arms and deep pockets and being a miser is your thing, all the power to ya.

nt

I didn't know you as a hero (personally), you must have changed pretty drastically since then... We spoke quite a few times (me as a few different people) and you were always willing to roleplay. I guess a lot of people kind of consider me the Paladin Nazi when it comes to being a well roleplayed Paladin, but I'd have to say that you were well rounded when I saw you around.

Now I probably hate the Paladin Hoarder more than the next person, but I'll admit that I never saw that side of you. As with all things, we all make mistakes and I hope that this is one that can make you a stronger player in the future

(Now for my payment, large one.) *grin*

Thornheart, we had some good times together. However, our interactions took place before I did a few things IC that quite possibly would have seriously tarnished my chances of virtues/cabal/crap like that. So after awhile, I resigned myself to the position that 'this is all I'm gonna get from an Immortal', empowerment. That was at about 175 hours. So I decided that my gear would be my faiths (hell, works for me). In any case, as a hero paladin you get just about as many tells as a Battle or a Warlock leader. To say I was Callous is just wrong. I tried many times to help everyone that asked me for some help, but when it came down to the level 10's and 12's asking me to kill all the elemental rulers for them, nope, sorry. I did consistantly roleplay true to my character, when he was less gear-hungry than he turned out to be, and what did it get me? 175 hours of pure wasted time. Might as well as just been empowerment, and viola, thats it. Keep it up to a degree, and you'll be fine. Some say Shokai likes to watch. He must like to watch folks grow old then. If I was doing something wrong (and why would he let me get away with it for so long?), then instead of constantly shaking his head in dismay at me while wizi, DO SOMETHING! Don't get me wrong, this is not an empowerment rant. Its Immteraction. I prayed many times in many different ways regarding what I've done and what I intend to do. All of those were possible windows for a Higher Power to say something. Silence. Every single time. Throw a dog a bone here, would ya? Or maybe you expect me to open the back door to poop in the yard. I'm an untrained mutt. Doesn't mean I can't do right, though. Give me a chance.

n/t

Almost sickening, really. Never thought I was callous, though...
And yes, before anyone else rakes me over the coals, I'm a recovering cheater. Its a horrible thing to do, and although I promised myself I wouldn't do it with this character, I did twice. Cut link/reconnected so I get wipe my commands in a pk fight where I was getting lagged so I could recall. Yeah well, Manarei still got me, and Asgaard didn't like it the second time. That being said, I loved playing a Paladin, even though some could argue that I didn't really _play_ a Paladin. First good character ever, and I was leary about trying it. Even without virtues, they can be machines... with the right gear of course. Which I invested almost every ounce of my time into getting. Was it worth it? Yeah, I guess. I could make (almost) anyone run like dogs one on one once I had my #####. Some would still whack me, like that damn shark of Iillien's or Tilaen on occasion (was always in the bloody Chasm, though). I wish there was some other version of the Paladin where I could go out collecting all the neat gear I wanted no matter how many people died and still have all the badass supplications and skills. Yeah right. In any case, here's the goodbyes.

Pals:

Fristapholin, we made a good exploring team! Will miss the opportunity we had...

Loranessa, had a lot of fun beating ass. And making fun of your french floosy accent! Ha!

Nefahrin, same with Fristapholin, except that you offered an entirely different edge to it. We should've all got together sometime... gimme them damn bracelets!

Daurwyn and Anborankein, didn't know you two very well. Just fought together. Good enough for me. Gets me gear. Oh wait, that was the problem wasn't it?

Kadeem, you turned into quite a trip there, ya know?

Only Maran I travelled with was this totally dumb broad named Sancella. I don't believe I've ever met such an empowered klutz before.

Foes:
Had more of these than friends... suprise suprise.
When I first heroed Scions were at a lull. I was happy. I said to myself, 'Hey! No Scions! I'll get gear!'. Too bad that mentality carried itself well beyond the line.

Bah, you're all pretty much worth mentioning, but I won't. Oh well.

I don't know how many of you like to play this game to express your inner child or some other bullhonky like that, but I'm here to win. And even though I don't want to use ooc means to do that anymore, it doesn't mean that I don't want to walk around sub-geared running from my foes because they've got the best ##### in the world. And even if they don't, I want an edge. So phooy to all you folks that managed to get yourself killed getting that damnned blade (well, I died too, poo on me), but why did it take so long to get me unempowered? I was gear-crazy from day one! Only 279 hours or so... could've given me a clue earlier you bastards.

Well anyway, I now know that Paladins are the #####. And I'm not going back to anything else but those guys for awhile. And this time... I'll do it right.

Thanks for the help with the ranking, it was a lot. I woulda liked to interact with you more, but have been busy with the guild....and often you were gone getting gear and stuff.

I dont know if you noticed but i robbed you quite a few times. You and that other storm paladin, Sancella. Got a few nice things but never really used them. Greed i guess.

Cheers,
Ajoul

Yarg!

This is probably obvious to you, but just in case . . .


Even without virtues, they can be machines... with the right gear of course. Which I invested almost every ounce of my time into getting.


It's not entirely an accident that you were a paladin without virtues. With them, you probably could have beat as much ass with less gear, and they don't go away when you die.

Seeing yet another Assclown paladin really makes me want to roll one up that resembles a paladin. I think I can count on one hand the number of Paladins I've seen that were really well played. And that's going all the way back to Kantherion the arbiter paladin of nimbus.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

I hope I fall into that category. *wink*

exploring an area new to me made that worthwhile.

I wasn't happy about how I died the second time though. Starvation as a ghost is not fun. I never knew it was possible before it happened.

Anyway, I liked your character because you enabled me to get to know a new area, and you were good to fight beside. You certainly accumulated nice gear fast though. Once you got that pendant there seemed to be no going back for you, but I don't think we travelled much after that.

Sheesh. You were always helping people. No mater what. I liked fighting alongside you, because you knew what you were doing. Thanks for showing me a few things. You seemed to be a pretty damn good paladin from my perspective.

Take care.

For a second there I thought my efforts were going unnoticed.
And even though I felt like I got a bad break, the Immortals are infallible... right?

Im not going to throw words with you, I know Sancella isnt excactly the brainiac of the world but that is a bit how I have choosen to play her. Playing über inteligent isnt fun and I dont think that playing an absolute dumbass is fun either, I always try to keep my characters somewhat normal when it comes to this. Sancella isnt an extreem killing machine, not in any way but she is i no way a coward and shes got more heart than brains.

alright that was the character part now to me, I nowadays have less then a quarter of the time i used to have playing so I dont really have the time to learn where everything is and have rather focused on other things in the game that I find more fun than figuring out where I can find the latest potions/staves/equipment.

But in the end I find it quite humorous to see you writing that ##### statement and practically saying how can that fucking idiot be a maran when I wasnt? Instead of thumping down on others you could consider what you did wrong with this character and learn from it.

Trezzy

Well guess I'll hope you read this. Go away for a few
days and see what happens! SHEESH! Anyways, at the end
I did like Ruairc. You seemed quite knowledgable and that
is one thing I do enjoy when I adventure with someone, that
they can keep up with me! (EGO!) And boy did we do good
together. Can't believe we beat Tiamat without having to
Rest! Thats just insane! Between the two of us I imagine
we could have done quiet well in Hell! When I first met
you I thought hell, another newbie paladin who heard of
that damn sword and I was too interested in advancing to
help with that, but then later once I was finished I was
bored and decided to go ahead and give you a shot. I'm
glad I did. You were quiet fun to adventure with! Hope
to see you again sometime, but remember, Paladin's aren't
worth the effort, take this from someone who's played 3
of them!

Fristapholin! The Gnome with Manners!