incognito | Fri 26-Mar-04 12:32 PM |
Member since 04th Mar 2003
4495 posts
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#4176, "RE: Good Killing Neutral"
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snip:
I disagree with Phaelim's point "If you want that piece of eq on the neutral mob, get i off an evil's corpse". That's very good in theory, but not entirely practical. Firstly, equipment is important to remain competitive. Secondly, all things considered, good classes are at a disadvantage in terms of lethality as opposed to evil classes, and finally, have you seen the hero range lately?
Taking each section in turn:
1) I disagree with Phaelim's point "If you want that piece of eq on the neutral mob, get i off an evil's corpse". That's very good in theory, but not entirely practical.
I'd say it is practical if you don't feel you -have- to have that piece of equipment so much you'd kill for it. Why do you need Tarus's stuff when you can go and request other bracers, or kill lowbie evils for other bracers? Ok, they may not give both +hit and +dam but they aren't useless either. You are basically saying "I want that +hit and +dam so much I will kill for it.". It just isn't -that- necessary to have that piece of gear instead of an alternative requestable piece or a piece on an evil. For example, a non-paladin could go and buy rothe-hide stuff in Udgaard (+dam, +hp). Going to a shop in an evil city and buying something to use to fight evil is a lot more justifiable than killing a neutral guy for it. Killing neutrals is just lazy and I don't agree that you need their gear that much.
2) Firstly, equipment is important to remain competitive.
Equipment helps, no denying that. However, the an extra 10 damroll should not make the difference between an unplayable character and a playable one. It isn't "required" to compete. One advantage evils have is more options when it comes to getting equipment. They have other disadvantages to compensate (like the fact your groupmate might kill you for it when you are weak).
Therefore I don't think that you should lose your rp for such a thing as gear. The fact that people quote Tarus as an example just shows how readily they are willing to do it. Tarus's gear adds about 10hp, 2 dam, and 3 hitroll if I recall (sleeves, 2 x charred). Even if you couldn't find -anything- for these slots you would only lose those stats. Easily available alternatives can add 2 dam, 10 hp, plus whatever you get from putting something on your arms. Most good-aligned people should be able to pk some enemies with only basic regear set that doesn't require the death of neutrals. Pk those enemies and work your way up. I don't think I've ever had a warrior break 35 with their damroll and yet I still do ok.
3) Secondly, all things considered, good classes are at a disadvantage in terms of lethality as opposed to evil classes
Evil classes are more lethal but in general, more fragile too. S suspect they kill more but are more easily killed. Plus, you have the perfect matchups like evil warrior vs good warrior where there is no real difference. Good shaman vs evil shaman. Good healer vs evil healer.
About the only difference is that evil has ap and necro and good has paladin. Sorry, but I don't see a great imbalance here. Paladins may be less deadly, but they offer a hell of a lot to the good-guys.
4) and finally, have you seen the hero range lately?
I'm in it. What do I see? I see hordes of imperials one moment and hordes of good-guys the next. By way of example I'd draw attention to the group of nine goodies who tooled a couple of imperials as a time when good are in ascendancy, coupled with the fact that they pointed out themselves that Empire had the numbers just beforehand. A short term swing, not a long-term one. I don't see why this should mean that goodies should be able to act more evil.
Summary:
The increase in gear power from being allowed to kill neutrals isn't that great. You can get comparable, if slightly worse, gear elsewhere without killing neutrals. Killing neutrals is generally a lazy way to avoid your rp. The alternative is a trip to Udgaard to buy some rothe-hide or the equivalent. Hardly that difficult. And if you are a paladin and can't go to Udgaard, then I think your class skills are good enough to make up for it (i.e. you can get to tougher places to request and you fight well even with poor gear).
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Good Killing Neutral
[View all] , Thelleneor, Fri 09-Apr-04 11:49 AM
RE: Good Killing Neutral,
shokai,
26-Mar-04 12:30 PM, #1
RE: Good Killing Neutral,
incognito,
26-Mar-04 12:32 PM #2
RE: Good Killing Neutral,
Valguarnera,
26-Mar-04 12:56 PM, #3
RE: Good Killing Neutral,
Beer,
26-Mar-04 02:47 PM, #4
Beat me to it, here's what was gonna be my post. :P,
General_Malaise,
26-Mar-04 02:56 PM, #5
In CF, the precedent means nothing...so stop using it a...,
Wilhath,
26-Mar-04 03:20 PM, #6
Seeking clarity.,
General_Malaise,
26-Mar-04 03:31 PM, #7
Quick question,
General_Malaise,
26-Mar-04 03:36 PM, #8
RE: In CF, the precedent means nothing...so stop using ...,
Thelleneor,
26-Mar-04 05:43 PM, #9
I don't think playability is an issue.,
Wilhath,
26-Mar-04 06:22 PM, #10
RE: Good Killing Neutral,
Thelleneor,
26-Mar-04 06:27 PM, #11
RE: Quick question,
Thelleneor,
26-Mar-04 06:29 PM, #12
RE: Good Killing Neutral,
Thelleneor,
26-Mar-04 06:42 PM, #13
RE: I don't think playability is an issue.,
Thelleneor,
26-Mar-04 06:56 PM, #14
Play and evil character. Then come back to us.,
Cerunnir,
26-Mar-04 07:23 PM, #15
Playing Evil,
Thelleneor,
26-Mar-04 07:40 PM, #16
RE: Good Killing Neutral,
Isildur,
26-Mar-04 07:43 PM, #17
Ok, paladins cant kill neutrals.,
Cerunnir,
26-Mar-04 09:08 PM, #18
RE: Good Killing Neutral,
Sevarecan,
26-Mar-04 09:48 PM, #19
Agreed (n/t),
Valguarnera,
26-Mar-04 11:06 PM, #20
RE: Elite dwarven guards.,
Valguarnera,
26-Mar-04 11:10 PM, #21
RE: Good Killing Neutral,
Isildur,
27-Mar-04 12:27 AM, #22
RE: Good Killing Neutral,
Isildur,
27-Mar-04 12:38 AM, #23
Generally, yes.,
Wilhath,
27-Mar-04 11:41 AM, #24
balance and game mechanics are linked,
incognito,
27-Mar-04 02:23 PM, #25
RE: Covering wear slots:,
Valguarnera,
27-Mar-04 03:16 PM, #26
Good to have you back, Isildur. (n/t),
Little Timmy (Anonymous),
27-Mar-04 03:46 PM, #27
The way I handle it...,
Vladamir,
27-Mar-04 07:22 PM, #28
I hope they change it so they just decline. nt,
Cerunnir,
27-Mar-04 07:44 PM, #29
Yeah because actually roleplaying it out is bad for the...,
Vladamir,
27-Mar-04 08:09 PM, #30
It isnt roleplay wise good that Ludan attack you outrig...,
Cerunnir,
27-Mar-04 07:53 PM, #31
Why not?,
Vladamir,
27-Mar-04 08:08 PM, #32
What about. Dispose of his fool, elite dwarven guards. ...,
Cerunnir,
27-Mar-04 08:12 PM, #33
on the other hand,
incognito,
27-Mar-04 10:21 PM, #34
Yes but as a paladin I felt obligated not to stereotype...,
Vladamir,
28-Mar-04 04:23 PM, #35
How about requesting from neutrals?,
General_Malaise,
29-Mar-04 10:24 AM, #36
Why not have neutrals not attack, just evils?,
Cassman,
29-Mar-04 04:48 PM, #37
For what it's worth...,
nepenthe,
06-Apr-04 09:20 PM, #38
Out of interest, how did your paladin come to wield,
Evil Genius (Anonymous),
07-Apr-04 03:52 AM, #39
Who cares?,
Moridin,
07-Apr-04 07:36 AM, #40
How about requesting from neutrals?,
General_Malaise,
07-Apr-04 09:15 AM, #41
RE: Out of interest, how did your paladin come to wield,
nepenthe,
07-Apr-04 05:16 PM, #42
RE: How about requesting from neutrals?,
nepenthe,
07-Apr-04 05:33 PM, #43
Why was my answer deleted but his false accusation left...,
Evil Genius (Anonymous),
08-Apr-04 03:25 AM, #44
Text enclosed.,
Valguarnera,
08-Apr-04 03:52 AM, #45
That's all...,
General_Malaise,
08-Apr-04 02:08 PM, #46
RE: Good Killing Neutral,
Boldereth,
12-Apr-04 09:42 AM, #47
RE: Text enclosed.,
Moridin,
14-Apr-04 03:52 PM, #48
RE: Good Killing Neutral,
ellen,
13-Feb-07 10:33 AM, #49
RE: Good Killing Neutral,
Isildur,
13-Feb-07 11:14 AM, #50
RE: Good Killing Neutral,
Isildur,
13-Feb-07 11:14 AM, #51
you crack me up,
laxman,
13-Feb-07 02:58 PM, #52
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