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UmironThu 12-Nov-15 02:36 PM
Member since 29th May 2017
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#61518, "RE: Time to end the ban on permas?"
Edited on Thu 12-Nov-15 03:30 PM

          

The short answer is: no.

First, I think it's important to understand that the staff does not sit around and hungrily wait for anything that could possibly be interpreted as permagrouping so we can piss in someone's cheerios. Anyone who thinks that is poisonous to the game and should kindly #### off.

I've never punished someone solely because I believed they knew another player outside the game or because they told me that Soandso is their real life friend. It's not that black and white and never will be. It will always boil down to a judgement call made the points mentioned by HELP PERMAGROUP. It's when people exploit that connection that we take offense, and there are all manner of things that make that exploitation apparent to us over time.

The rules and HELP PERMA are there to protect everyone and give us the leeway we need to police abuse, but for at least the past few years (if not much farther back) I think we've been pretty rational when it comes to this kind of thing. Getting rid of these rules and calling open season on "permagroups" would be disastrous because not all of our players can't be trusted to approach the game with the honesty and sportsmanship that would be required without them, and if we stepped in at that point we'd be met with smug claims that we have no legitimate recourse for doing so.

Playing with your friends will always mean assuming some risk, as ultimately we're the judge as to whether you doing so fairly or if you're crossing the line. If that proposition makes one uncomfortable then the obvious safe choice is to not do so, or at least make a concerted effort not to play off one another directly (e.g. cabal allies who regularly run together, characters who explore a lot together, etc.).

I'll also add that I don't think we've ever punished anyone for a permagrouping related offense without giving the parties involved a quick verbal warning first, followed by ample time to determine whether the behavior gets adjusted.

Edit to add: We don't always give warnings to repeat offenders. We'll certainly drop the hammer on two people immediately if, for example, we'd dealt with those same players for the same problem in recent history.

The rules won't be changing and our approach to them won't be either, but hopefully people's attitudes will because regardless of the rules we have and how they're written, if everyone just acts classy and has respect for one another then it's all copacetic and nobody has to die (to us).

  

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HOT Locked TopicTime to end the ban on permas? [View all] , Vonzamir, Thu 12-Nov-15 01:58 PM
Reply I apologize for starting this thread.nt, Vonzamir, 14-Nov-15 01:52 AM, #47
Reply ARE YOU HAPPY NOW VONZAMIR?!!!!11, Raltevio, 14-Nov-15 02:16 AM, #49
Reply RE: Time to end the ban on permas?, Umiron, 12-Nov-15 03:30 PM #1
     Reply This is a fantastic post. nt, Akresius, 12-Nov-15 02:40 PM, #2
     Reply Agreed. NT, TMNS, 13-Nov-15 11:12 PM, #41
     Reply One small tidbit, Torak, 12-Nov-15 03:24 PM, #3
     Reply I'm not keen on warnings except, incognito, 13-Nov-15 04:09 AM, #7
     Reply Thanks for the feedback. nt, Vonzamir, 12-Nov-15 04:49 PM, #4
     Reply So much subjectivity inevitably leads to selective enfo..., Anonymous1, 13-Nov-15 12:36 AM, #5
     Reply On the other side of the coin, incognito, 13-Nov-15 04:07 AM, #6
     Reply RE: On the other side of the coin, Anonymous1, 13-Nov-15 11:19 AM, #10
          Reply Some of you guys take this text-based adventure-game wa..., Homard, 13-Nov-15 11:22 AM, #11
          Reply I doubt you'd play Monopoly with your friend if he star..., Anonymous1, 13-Nov-15 11:28 AM, #12
               Reply I spend a lot of time in gaming parlors (a lot of relat..., Homard, 13-Nov-15 12:06 PM, #15
                    Reply Your response seems self contradictory to me., Anonymous1, 13-Nov-15 02:05 PM, #19
                         Reply The difference..., Homard, 13-Nov-15 02:14 PM, #20
                              Reply RE: The difference..., Anonymous1, 13-Nov-15 02:43 PM, #21
                                   Reply "I'm good at CF, but I'm losing because you cheated.", Artificial, 13-Nov-15 06:16 PM, #24
          Reply Holy ####. YOU REALIZE IMMS ARE PLAYERS, RIGHT?, TMNS, 13-Nov-15 10:53 PM, #35
     Reply You're one of those don't answer the cops people aren't..., Artificial, 13-Nov-15 08:57 AM, #8
     Reply No, I'm not., Anonymous1, 13-Nov-15 11:02 AM, #9
     Reply RE: So much subjectivity inevitably leads to selective ..., Umiron, 13-Nov-15 11:33 AM, #13
     Reply The lack of transparency in the staff is exactly why I ..., Anonymous1, 13-Nov-15 12:26 PM, #14
          Reply RE: The lack of transparency in the staff is exactly wh..., Umiron, 13-Nov-15 12:41 PM, #16
               Reply RE: The lack of transparency in the staff is exactly wh..., Anonymous1, 13-Nov-15 01:41 PM, #17
               Reply RE: The lack of transparency in the staff is exactly wh..., Jormyr, 13-Nov-15 07:32 PM, #26
               Reply #### you for not having ME killed by Biff!, TMNS, 13-Nov-15 11:12 PM, #32
               Reply Beastly fido!, KaguMaru, 14-Nov-15 08:25 PM, #67
               Reply I vote! , Demos, 14-Nov-15 12:01 AM, #43
               Reply RE: The lack of transparency in the staff is exactly wh..., N b M, 13-Nov-15 01:48 PM, #18
               Reply I'll second this...., Tac, 13-Nov-15 04:41 PM, #22
                    Reply RE: I'll second this...., Anonymous1, 13-Nov-15 05:22 PM, #23
                         Reply What I'm hearing you say is..., Tac, 13-Nov-15 07:22 PM, #25
               Reply Ouch, Vorek (Anonymous), 16-Nov-15 09:26 AM, #70
     Reply Alright so.., Raltevio, 13-Nov-15 08:31 PM, #27
     Reply RE: Alright so.., Anonymous1, 13-Nov-15 09:01 PM, #28
     Reply Sounds like you should just IMM. , Lhydia, 13-Nov-15 09:49 PM, #29
     Reply RE: Sounds like you should just IMM. , Anonymous1, 13-Nov-15 10:44 PM, #33
          Reply RE: Sounds like you should just IMM. , Isildur, 13-Nov-15 11:00 PM, #38
          Reply You realize his wife no longer plays, right?, TMNS, 13-Nov-15 11:03 PM, #39
          Reply It was a joke., Anonymous1, 14-Nov-15 07:31 AM, #58
          Reply You have official become worth my time for a single pos..., Destuvius, 14-Nov-15 01:57 AM, #48
          Reply I think I speak for 99% of the playerbase here when I s..., Gaplemo, 14-Nov-15 06:00 AM, #56
          Reply I have a hard time resisting the urge to be a jerk to J..., Anonymous1, 14-Nov-15 08:29 AM, #57
          Reply How is it?, Doof, 14-Nov-15 04:39 AM, #55
          Reply RE: Sounds like you should just IMM. , Demos, 14-Nov-15 09:58 AM, #64
     Reply RE: Alright so.., Isildur, 13-Nov-15 10:04 PM, #30
     Reply RE: Alright so.., Raltevio, 14-Nov-15 01:45 AM, #46
     Reply Wow cool world map. Big thumbs up! (nt), Bemused, 14-Nov-15 02:38 AM, #50
     Reply Yeah, too bad it isn't functional right now., Raltevio, 14-Nov-15 03:09 AM, #52
     Reply RE: Alright so.., Anonymous1, 14-Nov-15 08:01 AM, #59
     Reply RE: Alright so.., Raltevio, 14-Nov-15 09:11 AM, #62
          Reply Directly parsing map files would do way better NT, Kstatida, 16-Nov-15 07:36 AM, #69
               Reply Maybe., Raltevio, 17-Nov-15 08:48 AM, #72
                    Reply Wiki software, Anonymous1, 17-Nov-15 03:22 PM, #73
     Reply Feel free to enlist players..., Torak, 14-Nov-15 06:12 PM, #66
          Reply Yeah. I've tried on a couple of occasions.., Raltevio, 17-Nov-15 08:41 AM, #71
               Reply Double post., Onewingedangel, 17-Nov-15 06:16 PM, #74
               Reply Are you able to upload pictures?, Onewingedangel, 17-Nov-15 06:15 PM, #75
                    Reply Yes., Raltevio, 18-Nov-15 02:36 AM, #76
     Reply Wow. You are an idiot, incognito, 14-Nov-15 03:37 AM, #51
     Reply Cabdru was more than 9 years ago. nt, DurNominator, 15-Nov-15 08:15 PM, #68
     Reply Personally...I would love if IMMs started posting RotD ..., TMNS, 13-Nov-15 10:59 PM, #37
          Reply I'll be blunt.., Raltevio, 14-Nov-15 12:25 AM, #45
               Reply I actually thought you handled it not badly., TMNS, 14-Nov-15 03:11 AM, #53
                    Reply I can't recall a specific instance.. but I wouldn't be ..., Raltevio, 14-Nov-15 03:23 AM, #54
                    Reply ROTD, Anonymous1, 14-Nov-15 08:07 AM, #60
     Reply You're hilarious. In a bad way., TMNS, 13-Nov-15 10:47 PM, #34
     Reply Very productive response. I rate it 10/10., Anonymous1, 13-Nov-15 10:55 PM, #36
          Reply Where's your evidence about cheating? About nepotism?, TMNS, 13-Nov-15 11:10 PM, #40
     Reply This is not a democracy. Period., Knac, 13-Nov-15 11:56 PM, #42
     Reply As far as I can remember I've never broken nor been pun..., Anonymous1, 14-Nov-15 08:30 AM, #61
          Reply Meh., Raltevio, 14-Nov-15 09:20 AM, #63
               Reply Sorry., Anonymous1, 14-Nov-15 10:31 AM, #65
     Reply Let it go!, Jarmel, 14-Nov-15 12:11 AM, #44
     Reply RE: Time to end the ban on permas?, Isildur, 13-Nov-15 10:07 PM, #31
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