>While I can see your point,
>you would have to take
>
>into account that warlocks don't follow
>Ilraeth.
>They are warlocks. This isn't the
>cult, not everyone
>in the cabal is a follower
>of a certain religion.
>It has little to do with
>me killing 'followers'
>of Ilraeth, and more to do
>with me killing mages.

Your argument doesn't really shed like on how a patron goddess to a cabal would not have problems with her high priest being dead set against killing everyone in that cabal, and taking the grimoire. Arguing that a cabal is not a religion does not address the fact that a patron goddess, generally speaking, wouldn't want the people she is 'patron' to, to get killed by her own high priest.

>The gods are the gods. While
>I agree
>there is a fair amount of
>tension (or at
>least there should be) in asguaard,
>a mortal
>would not get 'in trouble' for
>following
>the teachings of another god. Especially
>
>when the way it is _roleplayed_
>fits perfectly
>into the sphere of being a
>battlerager, and
>totally by coincidence, the 'purity' of
>the water
>that Armand talks about so much
>can kind of be seen
>
>by the purity of Thror's sphere.

Again, you haven't really answered my question. Briefly, what I said in my earlier text was that the war on earth is translated to the war in the heavenlies. Thror would probably not like Zulghinlor, or Ilraeth. Hence, if a battlerager who is devoted to the destruction of magic, the hatred of magic, suddenly starts to worship an essentially magic goddess, and THEN becomes the magic goddess's high priest, the first reaction should be a very negative and violent one.

This notion of 'anything is possible with the right roleplay' seems to be the panacea answer to any argument. If somebody says 'Hey, a follower of Shokai shouldn't be killing orphans', then tongue in cheek the reply 'Oh, with the right roleplay he could be' seems too simplistic.

Other than preaching the ways of the water, how is the very serious contradiction between the high priest of an enemy magic cabal and the pull between hating magic is resolved? Water is just on aspect of Ilraeth's religion, and is the symbol more of knowledge and being a seeker. How is this essential contradiction addressed?

>
>Armand is very active in preaching
>to others of
>the ways of water. I would
>think that one who
>goes out and not only preaches
>the word or path
>of a god, but actually sheds
>blood and lives and
>develops stratagies against others who do
>NOT follow
>the god would be a very
>very good person to be

But quite a lot of the blood you're shedding are the members of your patron's cabal! Which seems to imply that Ilraeth favors you over the entire warlock cabal. Bottom line again is that her high priest is killing the members of her patronage. *IF* Armand is promoting Ilraeth by showing clarity to the warlocks, then by killing the warlocks, aren't you essentially saying that either 1) Ilaeath shouldn't be their patron or 2) Ilraeth wants all her patron followers to be run into the ground?

I noted with interest Nepenthe's two cents below, about how in real life, religions are often battleground dogmas of conflicting principles. The common justification to that of course is that people will be people, and its *usually* people who decide who's going to be high priest or sect leader in the real world, and there's a lot of power and yuckiness mixed up with so called divine truth. But in the real world, priests are determined by human machinations. In the CF world, Armand was appointed by Ilraeth herself, so the "imperfect world" argument raised by Nepenthe isn't totally valid, unless Ilraeth actually desires for her high priest to be killing her patron followers, which I supposed would add an interesting twist to things.

>See above, purity and clarity fit
>perfectly
>in the sphere of water, and
>in the village.

The perfect fit of one aspect of a sphere doesn't negate the contradictions of the other. Purity and clarity may fit, but being the patron of a magic cabal does not. The fit of one doesn't negate the 'disfit' of the other.

>I know, isn't that neat? Roleplay
>Roleplay Roleplay.

I suppose what you might call neat roleplay another would call 'total contradiction' and 'doesn't make sense at all' and someone less kind would go so far to say 'that's stupid and dumb'. Still, they only have their opinion, while you have your magic hating powers and your priesthood title, so I'd say you have an advantage if we go down that road.

>>4. If I follow closely too,
>>Ilraeth and her sister were
>>formed from the essences of
>>a previous Master Immortal. Tied
>>closely to magic, wizardry, sorcery,
>>wouldn't this too be cause
>>for a particular kind of
>>personality, which while not necessarily
>>wanting the blood and death
>>of every villager, be at
>>least repulsed by it?
>
>The personal Dogma of Armand is
>known to
>the village. They do not see
>it as a worship of
>
>magic, but a worship of the
>ways of water.
>How many times can Armand say,
>"I wish only to be
>
>as the waters are." Purity and
>Clarity again
>fit perfectly within the sphere of
>the village
>if roleplayed correctly for that.

Again, let me recap. The perfect fit of One aspect of a diety does not affect the total contradiction or misfit of the other aspects of the diety. It's like this. If you want to marry a girl who's blonde and tall, and the primary criteria are blonde AND tall, then it wouldn't matter if she's 8 feet tall but a red head, would she?

>>If, broken down in simple form,
>>WARLOCK = LIGHT + MAGIC
>>
>>then patron of WARLOCK = IMMORTAL
>>PRESENCE OF LIGHT + MAGIC
>>
>>High Priest of patron = HIGH
>>PRIEST OF IMMORTAL OF LIGHT
>>+ MAGIC
>
>You are forgetting that Armand does
>not
>worship warlocks, he follows a religious
>belief.
>And nowhere in his patrons cabal
>does it say
>that the cabal members must hunt
>and slay the
>priest for his beliefs or path.

A religious belief is the promoting of a way of thought, but also the worship of a diety. You don't see any contradiction that while you may worship your diety, you also are actively murdering all the people she's a patron to? Aren't you destroying the aspects of her beliefs, her characteristics, that you don't agree with?

It's irrelevant that the warlocks don't want to kill the village. It just makes them more confused. If I were a warlock I would be asking myself every night 'why is the high priest of my patron goddess trying to kill me? DOesn't my goddess want me to promote my magic? But the high priest says magic is bad.' Eventually, assuming Armand is super-uber successful and murders the entire warlock cabal, than heck, what's Ilreath's suposed to be patron to? DOes Ilraeth WANT the warlocks to be slain by you?



I'm too tired to go into the good and evil thing. Heh.