Ok, so I know gnomes and svirfs are vulnerable to blunt attacks
because of their size, but it has always bothered me that this vuln
does not go away if the svirf/gnome increases in size. Furthermore,
_anyone_ who is the size of a gnome, due to magical/spiritual/whatever
reason(s), should (logically) be subject to the same consequences.
It is also logical to see how a reduced gnome/svirf could take an even
greater amount of pain from bludgeonings.

If you guys think it would screw-up game balance by implementing this,
I just have to say that the blun_vuln is vicious as hell, as I'm sure
you all know, and there are SO MANY clubs and hammers out there that
any smart opponent can easily acquire one before fighting a gnome, at
any level. I think this would make sense (and also give power to using
'reduce' as an offensive spell).

One more little piece: If a gnome becomes enlarged to the size of a
dwarf, how does it make sense that he still takes the extra beating of
a normal-sized gnome? No logic there.

Anyway, whatcha think? Will one of my ideas actually make it to the
drawing board?

P.S. No, I am not playing a gnome or svirf.

Bizarro I'm helping!

If I have to, I'll explain away the gnome vuln as a bone structure thing, but it's not going away on something as easy as enlarge.

I can't begin to say how much gnome stats would have to go down and how much their XP penalty would have to go up for me to think they were fair if you could ditch it that easy.

Even if something like that did happen, it would probably mean the removal of 100% of the sources of enlarge besides a PC transmuter being removed from the game, which I think strips an interesting element of strategy out. (Currently, it's never really all bad or good to be enlarged or reduced.)

Well, I understand that gnome stats would be too sick by themselves,
with their natural abilities on top of that, without the vuln. But I
must say I feel for the little guys when I see them do so well in
fights, only to be killed by horrid cheap shots, or cranials. I'm not
sure what the solution is, but maybe the vuln could lessen for them
when they are enlarged? Say by 50% of whatever it is now? Also, if
any other players get to gnome-size somehow, they could acquire that
50% vuln. Not as steep as a true-blue gnome, but still a taste of it.

Then again, you could always give gnomes a few weird little traits
instead of the vuln, such as chronic diahrrea(sp?), or bad asthma (
which could make them move slower). Hell, I dunno.

The main thing I'm going for is flexibility. People who are too big,
afterall, have trouble fitting through certain doorways, and can even
become trapped within rooms if they enlarge themselves while in it. I
like the "flexible" aspect of CF, and I think it should apply to all
things.

Bizarro I'm helping!

But I must say I feel for the little guys when I see them do so well in fights, only to be killed by horrid cheap shots, or cranials.

Given how many gnomes there are (a lot), why should we go out of the way to create a change that can negate their largest drawback? Your proposed change creates a number of balance problems (Enlarge/Reduce need to be rethought, gnomes get a huge edge for a small investment in lightweight prep items, mace specs need to be reconsidered...), which means readjusting other variables to attempt to compensate. Once that is the case, you need a compelling reason for the change to occur, which you aren't spelling out. Otherwise, we're just shuffling code around.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

As if the fluent beauty of my written words aren't enough to compel
you into seeing things my way , I guess my main weapon in this
skirmish is the thing about "CF being a flexible game." Like I said,
giants can get stuck in rooms, there are all sorts of spells and
abilities which take numerous variables into consideration, and yet
the little old gnome can't do anything to vary his own handicap.
Fire giants can negate their vulnerability to cold and mental attacks,
and clouds can buy poison/disease cures in many places. Felar can
protect themselves with resist-fire items, and arials can just get
an invoker's shielding to negate all of their woes. What can a gnome
do? Run and hide from the mace spec, that's all.

Bizarro I'm helping!

How about you guys make it so that not 99% of the freaking mobs don't
do blunt damage? I mean, special guards come to mind. Give em some
damned swords or something. They are *not* trying to apprehend you,
afterall, they are trying to put your head on a pike.

Eh well, does anyone else think that too many mobs thwack away with
their bare hands (such as large GUARDS) when they should be swinging
a sword or something?

Bizarro I'm helping!

.

Default mobs who fight with hth used to be randomized between blunt/pierce/slash damage at creation. So gnomes shouldn't be vuln to more than 33% of all mobs who don't have a damage noun specified.

Besides, you can always get the resist blunt item.

-Marcus, mace spec fo life.

Gnomes have the object. But the chances of getting one are about as high as a sylvan not hoarding one. Other races with vulns have a hell of an easier time dealing with their vulns, except duergar/clouds, but then, they don't have to deal with mobs that spam wrath, whereas as you point out in your post below, EVERY MOB PUNCHES YOU IN THE EYE!

From what you're saying there's an easy way for my drow to avoid that mithril wrath wielding giant who burns my ass to a cinder in 2 rounds? Please tell me what it is!

I'm sure the elves would love to hear how to avoid my iron as well.

You remove that big drawback from Gnomes, then someone better start rethinking mith/iron vulns. Right now that's why you hardly ever see more than two elves on at a time. Drows? Yea, you see them more of them but some people are just inherently evil and put up with the added pain.

Trust me, every single newbie has a mith or iron weapon and there's a lot more of those type weapons lying around than there are blunts.

Gnomes are compensated for thier vuln with a huge wisdom and more pracs than they can count. You may die to that blunt but think how many times that stupid mace wielding giant can gain convert, instead, he's doing gain reverts just so he can learn a blunt. Elves and Drow have that god-like int so they can learn things faster and therefore gain a few extra pracs from that.

It's newtonian physics at work and I like it that way.

You remove that big drawback from Gnomes, then someone better start rethinking mith/iron vulns. Right now that's why you hardly ever see more than two elves on at a time.

This is incorrect. (High) Elves are consistently about the 4th most popular race, and that is consistent at all ranks.

Trust me, every single newbie has a mith or iron weapon and there's a lot more of those type weapons lying around than there are blunts.

This is incorrect. Maces, flails, and most whips together outnumber iron/mithril by a clear margin. There's also a few blunt polearms around, and rare examples from other weapon categories. Also, the recent limiting changes were the result of us accounting for object material, and high-end iron/mithril numbers have come down considerably.

That said, I still see no reason to remove any of the vulns mentioned. They're good balancers on popular races that do well as a number of classes.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com