Something I have noticed in cf after being away for an extended period of time. In the last year or so there has been this shift in playing styles on CF. I look at the Hero pk now and I cannot understand why any self respecting mudder would even want to continue playing a goodie. As it stands they totally dominate the hero pk. No I am not complaining about cabal powers and how goodies are overpowered. Is'nt it terribly boring for you guys to sit there and play chars that have no one to fight and nothing to do all day but stare at pretty sets of eq that collect dust? It used to be as far as cabals and cabal wars were concerned. People would pick the cabal that was getting is ass kicked and then jump on and see if they couldnt turn the tide. Ofcourse then there were the habituallly evil players. Seems CF has lost its love of the underdog and its love for evils. The two evil cabals are pretty much empty, which is really odd since for the longest time CF player base bitched and whined about lack of good evil cabals in the game. Weird huh?

Not really making a point. I just wanna know why some of the people that played evils decided to switch over to playing goodies and how do people have fun while playing goodies now days.

>The two evil cabals are pretty much empty, which is really odd since for the longest time CF player base bitched and whined about lack of good evil cabals in the game. Weird huh?

Empire empty? Are you serious?

My last character, I rolled a goodie because I had counted in excess of 40 different names that were some-kind of empire (bloodoath, etc.).

40+ different names in the space of the two weeks that I was counting.

Can you remember the last time there were 40+ ragers in the village that played regularly? 40+ tribunals? 40+ sylvans?

When cabals get even a quarter of those numbers near hero, they tend to totally dominate cabal wars, in my experience.

So I sat here thinking "all they need is one in four of those characters to rank up, and we are looking at a total shift in power...already middle ranks are flooded with nothing but evils...heck I counted 9 necromancers and 11 aps today...."

So I rolled my goodie, hoping to rank up and be the underdog.

But, for some reason...it didn't happen.

It seems that just about none of the 40+ empire chars ranked up...let alone 1 in 4.

So I am looking at playing a goodie character who is a total underdog (at the times I play...and this is a GOOD thing) dodging multiple 3+ member groups of evils and empirials that are actively hunting me...

But I get no credit from people who think like you, because they look at me playing a goodie and think "Oh, he's just another goodie...when will people start to play evils again".

Well, I wish you could step into the shoes mid-early thirties goodie at the times when I play...and you would see how utterly silly and myopic your post sounds like.


"Death awaits ya all, wit nasteh big pointeh teeth!"

You said:

"Can you remember the last time there were 40+ ragers in the village that played regularly? 40+ tribunals? 40+ sylvans?

When cabals get even a quarter of those numbers near hero, they tend to totally dominate cabal wars, in my experience."

Sylvans that I face regularly
1) Starkad
2) Blachmianan
3) Dacheal
4) Garambullo
5) Akrangol
6) Phraenduell
7) Grumby
8) Pelthaas
9) Corthy
10) Gevanter
11) Aelgain
12) Tichsomething invoker
13) Kisrithian bard
14) Ehlonna

And there are others that I'm forgetting.

Add in those that are at least Sylvan sympathizers that may actually be Sylvans and Fortress members and you have

15) Vorcalnon
16) Kalvaker
17) Tzaric
18) Erenthell
19) Phekaosy
20) Aemelius
21) Dylerion
22) Rothow
23) Brakkas
24) Pupmancur
25) Gorthalon
26) Sheilica
27) Karun
28) Zacharyn
29) Telfolan
30) Jhanderin
31) Eluna

Then there are the Tower members. These individuals are anti-Sylvan true, but they will pick up where the Warders leave off as far as allying with the Fortress to beat on Imperials. Thankfully their numbers are relatively few.

32) Gherian
33) Chasillia
34) Kamilla (may just be a sympathizer)

So that's at least 34 hero-range anti-Empire characters. I think it's a safe bet that there are at least an additional 10 that I'm overlooking or forgetting about.

My only complaint is that I can't hero because as soon as I start I have an airform scout alerting the 10+ enemies where I am. I'm not worried about dying and losing my shinies, but I'm not going to throw myself into the Abyss. More than a few of the above have shown me that they're willing to attempt multi-kills on me so I end up having to gather the necessities and then wait for a calmer time to gather the gravy.

Thank the gods for leader-con.

Being the underdog is not so bad some of the time. I can get around and escape well enough when my hunters are landbound. It's when you're facing 2 healers and 3 air/offense forms that you have little choice but crawl in a hole and hope their mothers call them to dinner soon.

>Is'nt it
>terribly boring for you guys to sit there and play chars that
>have no one to fight and nothing to do all day but stare at
>pretty sets of eq that collect dust?

Not really. In its heydays, evil heroes do that all the time. Like Valg's post below, it's more so the mindset of players. Most take this opportunity to explore.

> It used to be as far as
>cabals and cabal wars were concerned. People would pick the
>cabal that was getting is ass kicked and then jump on and see
>if they couldnt turn the tide. Ofcourse then there were the
>habituallly evil players. Seems CF has lost its love of the
>underdog and its love for evils. The two evil cabals are
>pretty much empty, which is really odd since for the longest
>time CF player base bitched and whined about lack of good evil
>cabals in the game. Weird huh?

Cabal wars swing to and fro. Mostly it is the players themselves who contribute to the pendulum swing when everyone has the 'jump in the wagon' mentality. All in all, evil do slay other evils; good tend to help each other, with certain exceptions in mind. So there will always be a favour towards good aligned characters for most new players. Don't be surprised to see to see dominance of evil once the players know where to get preparations, armor and weapon stuff quick and easily.

I do not see the two evil cabals as empty, rather they have not reached their peak to proceed onto hero ranks. I'm sure after some time, evils will be swarming all over.

And I'm sure a post like this will arise for help the 'good'...

Disclaimer: Consider most of this written from the perspective of Valg the Player, and not so much Valg The Immortal.

There's currently a huge pack of 30-40 evils who are either:

1) Having just an awful time finding groups.
2) Level-sitting weenies (tm). (*)

A lot of them are clearly very experienced players- they're carrying and keeping impressive stuff, they're winning the vast majority of their fights, etc. Now, there's a whole mess of heroish non-evils who are on, exploring, RPing, and occasionally whacking the minority evil guy who ranked up and accepted the challenge. I don't blame them for not wanting to discard a character they're having fun playing just to level up an enemy, however- especially when it's clear that any day their enemies could decide to go out ranking for an hour or two and be in range.

Frankly, both sides of that make cabal wars pretty slow. There's a lot of days when I'm playing "Find the items", and I see a bunch of heroes from Cabal A raid Cabal B unopposed, after which a bunch of lower level characters from Cabal B counterraid Cabal A and retrieve. After all that, we're back where we started, and a couple NPCs died at zero risk to the PCs involved. Not very exciting.

So, what can we do to encourage less LSW-dom? Well, one principle I'm trying to incorporate into future design work is similar to what we did with Legacies- put good incentives in the mid-40's to give people a positive reason to keep improving. Back in the old days, thieves often sat at 30 because they got next to nothing for going further (whereas their PK range did), and as you can see from new thieves, we learned from that.

Something I've always tried to do as an IMM is reward characters who aren't 'playing it safe'. It's something I look for when I'm thinking of titles, questy rewards, leadership positions, followers, free XP, etc. I think the staff in general keeps this in mind pretty often, and a lot of players have made good careers being the underdog guy who reaps this kind of stuff (**).

However, at the end of the day, this is largely a player issue. It's sort of like gear-hogging... I think it's no fun to collect shiny baubles and never let them see the outside of your guild. A lot of more experienced players think this way as well. But a large group of people, as far as I can tell, would rather hold on to that stuff even if it means hiding in distant corners or logging off. This baffles me, but I'm not going to run around slaying people for merely being dull. (Though I am rabidly fond of the newer versions of the anti-hording code.)

So what can players do?

1) Keep busy with things other than ganging down the one underdog guy repeatedly. Explore, hang at the Inn, interview for your cabal, go rank yourself, etc. If you see the underdog guy, sure, smack him- I'm not advocating OOC free lunches for anyone, especially if they're lounging on Eastern (***) begging to be beaten about the head and neck area with a blunt instrument. But that's a little different from spending all your time gathering a group of 5 and scouring every corner looking for the dude.
2) Start a snowball. Once people start seeing their allies move up, they feel safer following.
3) If you're in a cabal leadership position, you can more or less demand certain members stop ass-sitting. Especially if you're getting your butt kicked while they sit in their comfortable range or hide in their guild. This works for any alignment- the peacefulest Floofi healer could want it because active champions are needed to ward off grave threats to the Light. Joe AP might demand it because he's sick of supporting a cabal full of lazy wastes of taglo jerky. Etc.
4) Don't be that guy who plays only when things are favorable. You know who you are, and you suck.
5) Play one character at a time. I can't emphasize often enough how many problems this solves, but one of them is that you won't be as tempted to log out and come back as your "safer" choice.

(*): Definition: A player who intentionally ducks the big boys in order to clean house on a weaker range. Lots of people get stuck at different ranks because of a lack of knowledge, poor grouping possibilities, etc., and I wouldn't call them LSW's. It's all about intent.

(**): Corollary: There's another population of players who constantly play weenies of various sorts, and then complain that they never seem to get rewards and other positive immteraction.

(***): Unwritten Rule #23857 of CF: If you are on Eastern, you are daring people to kill you.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I like when you post as Valg. the character.

Corollary to Unwritten CF Rule #23857: If you are visible on Eastern, you are already dead. You just don't know it yet. The only thing keeping your gear on you is that you are likely wearing crap.

As for the "bastard goodies" mentioned above, I've been playing evil/neutral for about 2 years. Finally rolled up a goodie and apparently did it at the same time as everyone else. Now I feel some of the evil's pain, but I'll be damned if I'm throwing away my character (note: singular) because they feel like underdogs. There's too much time/practice/ranking anoyance to go through to make someone else feel better. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. So, as some of the older goodies kick off I'm sure you'll get you evil pendulum swing. In the meantime, be patient. It'll come.

-Falstaff

(***): Unwritten Rule #23857 of CF: If you are on Eastern, you are daring people to kill you.

Or, like me, you have no idea how to get from the Western part of the continent to the Eastern part without taking Eastern Road. Is it a conspiracy that you are taught as a newbie that this is the route to take to Hamsah and Arkham? It's like "here you go newbie, this is the way to Arkham. (but I'm not going to tell you that if you use this road on a regular basis you're painting a target on yourself)"

And don't think I haven't tried finding another route, I have. I've either gotten lost or run into a dead end or something every single time I've tried. But then I kind of suck at finding my way around anyway. Is it actually possible to get from say Balator to the Inn or Galadon without ever stepping foot on Eastern? And I'm talking about a lowbie, without magic, without preps, who has to walk it. I know I can't be the only one who finds this to be difficult, even if I am bad at directions.

It's not easy to find another route. Regardless of alternate routes, I'm terrible with directions, so I wouldn't easily find my way between Galadon and Hamsah without using Eastern.

So... I take a deep breath while outside whichever town I'm near, and run into town, out the gate, and down the road. Always alert, but moving quickly, and hoping to avoid an ambush.

There are a few other alternatives. One, taking the fights as they come and winning. Two, magical means: teleport, gate, potions, etc. Three, just plain avoiding half of the world for most of your time.