Huh. We had a marketing board. Who knew? Sorry I haven’t been more involved, but I’ve been busy with my regular job, and starting a new business on the side, so I just recently discovered this treasure trove of ideas.

I’ve read all the threads, and I’d like to address most of the salient points with this one post, then offer to “take the reigns” so to speak, in order to get this marketing show on the road.

The Heroimm Process. I’m actually fine with it the way it is. Despite all of us wanting 100% of our Heroimms to succeed, make 53, and get a religion in the game, that just doesn’t happen, for numerous reasons. But I don’t think the process is faulty in and of itself. What the process is designed to do is expose folks to the fact that being an Imm isn’t just about handing out rewards, running quests, switching into mobs and using all the cool powers. It’s about being a self-starter, being able to motivate yourself to do the less pleasant (but necessary) tasks because you know the more pleasant ones will make it worthwhile, and being able to work within our system (which I’ll get to in the next paragraph). We do have systems in place that help Heroimms succeed, and they do that. But at the end of the day about 75% of the Heroimms who don’t make it to 53 do so because they realize that they just don’t want to. The other 25% don’t make it because sometimes our internal systems break down. I think we’ve come a long way towards reducing the latter number, but I’d still like to see it at 0.

The Staff as Volunteers. When we say “We’re volunteers!” people hear “We don’t get paid for this!” which is not what we’re saying. What we’re saying is that we work within a hierarchy of ability – vice authority – that utilizes a consensus-driven decision making process to achieve goals. What this means is that we don’t have a boss; we have various individuals with different levels of ability but no real authority. If you as an individual want to get something accomplished, you need to promote the idea, get a consensus that the idea is worthwhile to pursue, then convince the individuals who have the ability to work on your task to make it a priority. The higher level you are as an immortal, the easier it is to advance these types of projects, mostly because you have the ability (i.e., immortal powers or skills picked up over the years) to work on it yourself, and the creditability to promote the idea and achieve consensus that it is important.

This is not the most efficient way to run an organization, and was my biggest frustration with the staff when I joined back in 1999. In fact, it is completely opposite from the military structure I’ve operated within my entire adult life: a hierarchy of authority that provides command by negation. In other words, “Here’s your assigned mission, here’s what you’re not allowed to do. Accomplish the mission or you won’t get promoted!”

But just because it isn’t the most efficient way to do things doesn’t mean it isn’t effective. Given the very real constraints that we operate under (not for profit, volunteer hobby), we’ve generated an excellent product. That’s in part because product development is, for most of us, a lot of fun, and is the reason we wanted to join the staff. There’s no reason why we can’t utilize the same system to improve the business side of CF, which is something we need to work on.

Strategic Plan. Here's what I think we need to do to move forward.

1. Create a Vision Statement. All organizations need one; we're no different. Our vision statement should define where we see ourselves in 3 to 5 years.

2. Create a Mission Statement. This is our purpose, why we exist, and where we're going in the next year.

3. Create our Values. This is the ethical framework we're going to use to accomplish our Mission and achieve our Vision.

4. Create a Marketing Plan. This would normally be called a business plan, but, to be honest, marketing is really the only part of the business we need to worry about. This is how we're going to run our business to accomplish our Mission and achieve our Vision.

5. Create a Product Development Plan. This is probably too much like work, but it might be worth a try. Basically, this is how we want to develop our product (i.e., the MUD) to accomplish our Mission and achieve our Vision.

I'll subthread each of the above as we make progress on them, starting with the marketing plan, which I've already got some ideas for.

Kastellyn the Devourer of Magic, Lord of Legends

*** Email me your testimonials or two-line blurbs. Help our marketing efforts! ***

The way I'd typically handle something like this in a project setting where I'm too stupidly overwhelmed to be a major stakeholder is as follows:

1) Engage contractor (Stunna).
2) Sign NDA/etc.
3) Request statement of work to be developed by contractor at a T&M price, with an upper hour limit (max X hours), detailing typically the following information:
- What are the payment terms?
- What is the work to be done?
- What are the dependencies of me?
- What are the dependencies of the project?
- What are the terms of authorizing funds and additional work?
- What is the approval process for decision making?
- Establish a standing status update meeting as necessary.
- What are the success criteria?
4) Revise as necessary.
5) Go/No Go decision.
6) Execution with standing meetings to track.
7) Project completion.

These tend to be boiler plate like documents and cover all the essential #### I need to understand before authorizing work to be done. I'll drill into each item on a one by one basis, just to show that these don't have to be 500 page long documents and in fact, they are typically 1-2 pages long.

1) Payment terms
Contractors generally want to get paid. I think Stunna was volunteering to do this for free but I'm not sure what the commitment level is here. IE, would he commit to doing an SOW, approval process, taking the ball and basically running with it. Assuming there are no payment terms here as I don't think CF has the budget for a real time and materials contractor at $100+/hour or whatever.

2) Work to be done
High level business statement of what sort of activities are going to occur. Really this is the heart of what people are proposing in this thread but I don't think anyone's actually accepted *doing it*, which is the key problem. This identifies what is being done and by whom, really its like all of these posts except a "by me" statement at the end of each bullet point.

3) Dependencies of Me
What do I need to do? Maybe this is a kick off two hour skype convo. Maybe this is establishing an account with Google. What are things that I explicitly need to do and what is the impact if I do not do them?

4) Dependencies of the Project
What things need to happen that are outside both my control and the contractor's control? On big projects this is a risk assessment, on small projects this might be empty entirely. This is probably empty for a marketing effort but in other contexts this might be things like acquisition of branding materials by a third party or legal document dependencies like privacy policies and ToS.

5) Fund Authorization
This usually communicates how funds will be handled. On big projects, this boils down to invoicing and reimbursement. On very small projects, this might simply be a request to purchase via email followed by a completion of purchase by the stakeholder. IE, "Can you please buy 50 Google click credits and email me when its done? Sure no problem."

6) Approval Process
On small projects this is typically just written email acknowledgement of a decision. IE, Yes you may launch that advertisement.

7) Standing Meetings
These are generally important and as frequent/infrequent as necessary but its good to have at least 15 minutes set aside monthly or bi-weekly to get on the phone/skype/whatever and make sure everyone's still alive.

8) Success Criteria
How do we know we're done? Is this an email acknowledgement? Who needs to be present to review the final work product? Etc.

Anyway, I feel like we're hung up on step one. None of the imms are interested in "being contractors" for this work, there's no budget for a third party to do this work for money and of the players qualified to do this work pro bono, they're too busy.

We're making slow, but measureable headway without any funds and with dedication from members of Team Marketing. We're using multiple communication tools and have Zulghinlour as one of the immortal sponsors.

Several vacations have caused a couple of set-backs on deadlines but we'll see even more progress towards the end of the summer.

I'm in business. I understand the business process and requirements for Marketing Campaigns. Unfortunately, I think all of that is a little too much for what we're trying to accomplish here.

What a team and a project like this really needs is dedicated members that aren't easily distracted. I feel like we have several of those who have contributed quality time towards a set of objectives.

Makes sense. You should just delete this thread/board then until you want more input from the playerbase.

As a sidenote - in case anyone is interested in this sort of thing outside of work environment for managing stuff (photographers for a wedding, for instance, any sort of service based thing), you can definitely snip all of that stuff up into a one page or less document. I've drafted SOW's in like 15 minutes for projects that are less than $20k just out of habit of writing them.

Edited a second time: As a simple example if you want to start using SOWs for stuff, here's something not dissimilar to what our wedding photographer made us sign :

Blah blah blah will photograph the wedding at X address on Y date beginning at Z time in the PM. Payment will be a $X deposit with a $Y final payment due in cash or money order upon receipt of the final digital copies. I will call to confirm the day before. Delivery will include the photos in X by Y resolution, digital JPEG images, within 10 business days of the wedding via snail mailed DVD-ROM. Equipment utilized will be Z big ass list of lenses and camera equipment. Wedding party photos will take X minutes to complete, starting at Y PM all must be present. The venue must accommodate flash photography thingies. Cancellation must be 30 days in advance to receive return of deposit. Etc.

You can see even in that paragraph all of the key points are hit and it probably took the lady like 3 minutes to modify her template.

Hello again.

It's been a little while since I've posted here, but I wanted to throw my two cents into the ring.

Heroimm Process:

I tried the heroimm thing once, several years ago. I remember how happy and peppy I was. I even got some joy out of filling out and faxing in the NDA. But then I remember a bunch of great people in Immland, and, unfortunately, a couple of kind of stuffy ones (now long gone) who caused me a series of frustrations that caused me to pull out. Simply put, I didn't need to add stress to my already stressful life. I don't blame anyone for my decision to delete but myself. But if the heroimm process had a few more carrots and a little less stick than it did, say, in 2003-04, then that would be awesome.

Attracting More Players:

In real life, I'm a professional writer with a degree in online media. I have a pretty good grasp on how the media - both online and print - works. I hope that gives what I'm going to say some validity, somehow.

In short, a mission statement would be wonderful. An ethical guideline would be great.

But what we really need is to create something attractive and accessible to those outside the shrinking niche community of MUDding. In order to play CF, you have to either use a sorely lacking Java client or actually research and download a mudding client from a third-party site. Add to that the fact that CF has a pretty steep learning curve once you do finally start playing the game.

So, here is a list of things I would do, in the order I would do them (after the preliminary, mission statement-type stuff):

PHASE ONE - "Set 'em up":

- Start taking applications for talented volunteers -- IMM and non-IMM -- to help create at least a basic MUD client solely for CF. Preferably Flash or Java. Maybe even add special features to that client, i.e. a graphical character creation process and newbie guide. Hell, if a CFer has musical talent, we could incorporate music into the newbie guide. You want to know about Empire? Well, as you read the Empire helpfile, maybe you'd like to see a painting of the Imperial City and Palace and hear the Empire theme song.

Also, make CF support aliases... or hardcode an alias feature into CF itself, as many other MUDs have done.

As for employing non-IMM volunteers, I know it's something that CF has not traditionally done. But I've seen a few small steps being taken away from that old philosophy, like the short stories on the CF homepage. That said, not everyone has the time or, frankly, the RP prowess to be a good IMM. But that doesn't mean they don't have the skills to contribute. I say there's no harm in giving them any task that doesn't involve direct access to the CF code.

I've never seen or heard of an online community with more collective talent and smarts that failed so miserably to use them.

- Meanwhile, start looking for ways to bolster the IMM ranks. This may mean less bureaucratic stuff/area writing and more Immteraction and cabal management - things that are sorely and noticeably lacking as of right now. (Of course, they could also earn Imm Brownie Points working on the above client project...)

The reason: If we suddenly get a surge of players and we have only the current 5 active-ish IMMs are around to greet them, create memorable quests and activities, and address their concerns, then we can assume they'll probably just go and find something else to do, instead.

Once all of this is in place - a viable Flash client and several new, perky Imms - then it would be time to go on to the second phase.

PHASE TWO - "Knock 'em down":

Some of this seems lofty; it is not. Many media outlets are ALWAYS looking for a story. And on slow news days/weeks/months, you'd be surprised to see how easy it is to get into newspapers, magazines and online publications.

- That new, flashy Flash client? See if you can post it up on online Flash game Web sites. That would attract people who might not usually look for MUDs, or even know what a MUD is. The initial graphic interface for the character creation/optional newbie tutorial would hopefully be enough to inspire them.

- Next, start reaching out to news media. The bad economy is a PERFECT way in. People are blowing money on World of Warcraft every month. They aren't learning reading or typing skills. CF doesn't have a monthly fee or expansion packs to buy. And to be honest, I sucked at typing until I started MUDding (laughably badly) at the age of 11ish.

So now you'd send out a press release touting these qualities.

A good press release would mention World of Warcraft for two reasons - people searching WOW on the Internet might stumble across the press release. Also, everyone knows what WOW is, so journalists who know nothing about MUDs would be able understand basically what CF is right away. (I'll write up a sample press release when I have time.)

Reach out directly to comic book/fantasy shops across the U.S. (and world).

Comic book shops, the good ones, at least, are extremely close-knit communities. If you turn just a few on to CF, then holy crap, we'll see a huge and permanent increase in players.

Make catchy fliers with the CF logo and art. I vaguely recall the flier thing being done before, but I don't think it was executed well. Encourage CF players to print them out and hand deliver them to the comic book shops. Chat up the store owner. Many comic book/fantasy shops host regular tabletop roleplaying and strategy game tournaments. These are the types who could be easily wooed.

A possible reward for CF players: if a comic book store owner contacts you (providing proof that he or she really is a comic book store owner), maybe toss the player a free PBF or three.

More specifics and details later. I gotta get back to work.

Find an imm who is even remotely interested in utilizing the marketing skills of the volunteers in the playerbase. Much of what you're suggesting has been suggested OVER and OVER and it always fails because no one on the CF staff is interested in helping you. "If you want to do it, do it yourself." That's what I'm always told.

There has to be a reform to the way the CF volunteer staff is created, as you say. The current system only creates coders, area writers and role players. There is a customer service and marketing side to ANY organization that is obviated by the current system. The imms are unwilling to move on it, to my knowledge. I'm baffled by it, but I respect their decision to run (or run into the ground) the game that they have created.

>Find an imm who is even remotely interested in utilizing the
>marketing skills of the volunteers in the playerbase. Much of
>what you're suggesting has been suggested OVER and OVER and it
>always fails because no one on the CF staff is interested in
>helping you. "If you want to do it, do it yourself." That's
>what I'm always told.

As has been said over and over, there is nobody whose strength is marketing or is interested in marketing, and I can say from my personal perspective, I wouldn't even know where to begin. I don't know enough to even be useful in the conversation, much less be the decision maker shelling out some form of budget.

And has also been said...yes...you don't need to be an Immortal to promote/market Carrion Fields. The gentleman looking at podcasting is a perfect example of a way to successfully market CF without ANY immortal intervention.

>There has to be a reform to the way the CF volunteer staff is
>created, as you say. The current system only creates coders,
>area writers and role players. There is a customer service and
>marketing side to ANY organization that is obviated by the
>current system. The imms are unwilling to move on it, to my
>knowledge. I'm baffled by it, but I respect their decision to
>run (or run into the ground) the game that they have created.

The opportunity is there for a customer service, marketing piece, but nobody is volunteering for it, and I'm not about to push anyone to do something they aren't interested in.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

That's pretty much what I'm saying.

I think my sticking point came in "doing things myself" when I asked if I could create a way to get a marketing budget (like just asking the players to donate specifically to marketing) and was basically told "no."

So yes, some things can be done free of charge - but you get what you pay for when it comes to marketing. Ultimately to, as you say "effectively", market CF you need to have at least a small budget (for PPC at least, website stuff etc.) and you need to have access to some statistics that there are currently no ways for me to get.

I'm pretty much done beating this dead horse, but I am presently working on the now overdue W2s of my employees - and I am just trying to avoid doing any real work for the next 10 minutes while I recharge on starbucks. ANYWAYS...

I think that you hit the nail right on the head when you said "I don't know enough about marketing to even be useful in the conversation". It's not a knock on you AT ALL. I very much like you IC and OOC, and truly appreciate the #### you do. Particularly the shifter revamp. That said, yes you don't know anything about marketing and neither do any other staff members - so why do you guys not listen to the people who do and offer to help?

I just feel like there has to be common ground somewhere... that there is a reasonable place to move forward for a "marketing team" of sorts that isn't a "your on your own" mentality.

But yea... I'm going to go back to my arithmetic and tax bills. Oh the glam life I lead. Le sigh.

Dude, I think you have some excellent ideas and I'm definitely heeding your words when I get around to recording a promo, but I have a slight argument against a marketing budget sort of thing.

First, I think as geeks (let's all admit we are), we are painfully aware of product placement and trying to be "sold" something. For a game that is free, I just don't think creating a marketing budget to make CF a more commercial commodity is the way to go in this day and age.

My personal hero, Scott Sigler, gave his books away for free, podcasted his novels for free, and promoted himself. Very, very small budget, if any. He didn't ask for donations or anything along those lines. He got such a following by doing what he did that he was picked up by a major publisher and his latest book (which he also gave away free in PDF format and is podcasting) just hit the New York Times bestseller list.

You wrote:
"So yes, some things can be done free of charge - but you get what you pay for when it comes to marketing. Ultimately to, as you say "effectively", market CF you need to have at least a small budget (for PPC at least, website stuff etc.) and you need to have access to some statistics that there are currently no ways for me to get. "

I still think that as a free retro-style game, we should be rely on the viral marketing aspect of it while maintaining a feeling of "We, who love to play this game, are volunteering our time to make this." Zero marketing budget. Post YouTube videos, make podcasts and promos, blog about it, Twitter it, Myspace friend people and say "Hey man, try out this game." Start a meetup.com group. Take pictures and put them on flickr. Link up to the site on your own website. Dude, there's a lot that can be done that no one wants to even attempt, and it can all be done without traditional expensive marketing strategies.

You need to do both hard and soft marketing - hard are ads you pay for, soft are networking things your talking about. It's a mix of both that is most powerful.

For instance, banner ads and PPC will represent a lot more newcomers to the mud because of the volume of reachable people - the more budget, the more people you reach like this, so the limit is only on how much money you can raise - not on how many volunteer hours people put in. Money is an infinite resource, time is not.

That said, your HARD activities always work better in conjunction with SOFT activities.

I did a post a while back on hard and soft marketing. Check it out here:
http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=16310&mesg_id=16310&listing_type=search

Firstly, I respect your thoughts on marketing, and think you've got some kick ass ideas.

So, I'm no marketing guy at all, but something strikes me as wrong to have to pay for advertising a free game. In a certain sense, if I saw some paid advertisement for CF, claiming it's free, I'd be thinking to myself, "hey what's the catch", and probably avoid it. Some people, myself included, are attracted by the "grass-roots" feel of certain things, be it music, art, or something like a MUD. Just my two cents. Again, you all have great ideas I'd love to see something put in place someday.

Also, keep in mind that we're not trying to optimize a strategic plan for marketing. We're trying to start one..

I can honestly tell you that most of what you'd think of as "grassroots" campaign took a little money to do. I'm not talking about a $20,000/mo budget here... or even $200/mo... but certain things just aren't free.

For example I have a band that I just started (www.freedumbdetroit.com) and I never expect to make a dime with it. No one will ever think of me and my band as a commercial enterprise, however I bought a banner for shows $150, t-shirts $250, and hi-jacked bandwith from my business' site (with the permission of my server) to build the freedumbdetroit.com at the annual fee of $100, plus registered my domain name which cost like $40 or so. There is a cost to doing things that are non-profit or "free."

I think if I pass out fliers for a show, which I have to pay for, no one sees that "paid" advertisement and thinks "what's the catch?" they just throw it on the sidewalk. But I digress...

No professional marketer would create ads (paid or otherwise) that turned off more people than they turned on. But remember that your ability to be totally magnetic to some people is always in direct proportion to your willingness to be totally repellent to others.

Anyhow, I'm glad we're kicking around marketing ideas again. I think there is a lot of potential... it just takes someone with some say-so to really co-ordinate anything worthwhile... and I don't think that they need do more than a couple hours of "work" getting things authorized. One 45 minute AIM chat would probably do the trick.

>I think my sticking point came in "doing things myself" when I
>asked if I could create a way to get a marketing budget (like
>just asking the players to donate specifically to marketing)
>and was basically told "no."

So what you need is a player donation site. Set up a page somewhere that allows you to take people's donations. Then post a link to that page here. Or find someone to make that page for you if you don't have the technical skills. No imm intervention needed for that.

What else do you need, specifically?

asdf

I'm not saying to call it a charity. I'm just saying make a site that says "I'm raising funds for a marketing effort for cf" How is that different from the imms saying "hey we're raising funds for a marketing effort for cf that we'll be giving to this guy"? How is that borderline illegal? Are you worried about being sued if people think you did the wrong with with the money?

Anyhow, where do you think the money you want is going to come from? Do you think pbfs are generating revenue in excess of the costs of keeping the game up? Are you saying the staff should pay out of their own pockets? Seriously, where are you picturing this money coming from if not from player donations? And if it is coming from player donations, why should they do the fund-raiser and not us?

This is like any "save the XYZ" project. People do grassroots fundraising to help preserve stuff they like. How is this any different? Okay, maybe you personally don't like fundraising and don't want to do it. Fair enough. But why is it the staff's responsibility and not ours? What advantage do they have in getting the money together?

In short, if I want to raise money for big brother big sister I go to them ask them how they'd like me to do that. I don't go knocking doors and asking for donations without the consent of the organization I'm collecting for. There is no accountability and it opens you up to possible legal action.

>In short, if I want to raise money for big brother big sister
>I go to them ask them how they'd like me to do that. I don't
>go knocking doors and asking for donations without the consent
>of the organization I'm collecting for. There is no
>accountability and it opens you up to possible legal action.

I'm not a lawyer, but I am 99% certain that it is perfectly legal to solicit donations on a website as long as you aren't comitting fraud. If you lie about what will be done with the money, or about your relationship to purported recipients of the funds, then it becomes fraud. But if make it clear you're not affiliated or endorsed by Carrion Fields LLC, and use the money the way you, then you're fine.

You don't even have to be giving the money to CF. If you're really that scared, you can say "Hi this is my personal website and I'm asking for personal donations to me. I'm not affiliated with or endorsed by Carrion Fields, but I'll be taking these donations and if I feel like it I'll use them on a marketing campaign for the game."

Again if you just don't want to bother with this, that's cool I know I sure don't want to bother with it. But the legal argument is really not valid. People ask for personal donations for random #### all the time and only get sued when it's obvously a scam (e.g. "Give me money for cancer treatment" when in fact they don't have cancer and just want a tv).

Also you keep discussing CF like it's a real organization like big brother big sister, and it's just not.

>Also you keep discussing CF like it's a real organization like
>big brother big sister, and it's just not.

Carrion Fields is an LLC filed in the state of Texas.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

>Carrion Fields is an LLC filed in the state of Texas.

Well, I was talking more about organizational structure, but okay. So what's the word, can we get Steve Helms, Matt Hamby or Barbara Hamby to sign off on some fundraising?

>Find an imm who is even remotely interested in utilizing the
>marketing skills of the volunteers in the playerbase. Much of
>what you're suggesting has been suggested OVER and OVER and it
>always fails because no one on the CF staff is interested in
>helping you. "If you want to do it, do it yourself." That's
>what I'm always told.
>
>There has to be a reform to the way the CF volunteer staff is
>created, as you say. The current system only creates coders,
>area writers and role players. There is a customer service and
>marketing side to ANY organization that is obviated by the
>current system. The imms are unwilling to move on it, to my
>knowledge. I'm baffled by it, but I respect their decision to
>run (or run into the ground) the game that they have created.


I still don't understand what you "need" from the IMMs. All you ever offer is vague assertions that you're roadblocked from volunteering your time and putting something together. Here, you're once again hijacking someone else's new idea to promote your failures in the past. Why is it so hard for you to just take charge? (assuming you are honestly representing your skillset)

Stunna, your efforts are appreciated, however;

1. As Zulgh says, no imm has the current wherewithall to set up a marketing campaign for Cf
2. Your posts create a very generic set of goals and expect someone else to do the work/flesh it out/understand it.
3. Combine step 1 and 2 and you have a barrier, it's a stimulus/response scenario.

What is the very next action you want to happen?

Hutto's done something, he's put out a clarion call for artists - when he has names he can direct them to do something, specific. If you need a budget - tell us "I need $200", don't say "we need a budget, no go sort it"

The flash client is a very, very, very, very good idea. Submitting that to all the flash game sites is brilliant. Someone should do this ASAP. And tell us here, so we can all go vote it up and comment about how awesome the game is.

Secondly, can someone make a handy-dandy flier? If we can encourage student players and teachers to post the fliers on bulletin boards around their schools (and at neighboring schools), that would be amazing.

Hutto, the Sleepy Nitpicker

http://mudgamers.com/home/client/?host=carrionfields.com&port=4449&title=The%20Carrion%20Fields

They say they use a proxy server to connect, so I'm guessing the proxy server is banned. Thank Kov.

However, the guy who made this client (and the website) has the same flash client you can download and install yourself without using the proxy server to connect and instead requires a socket policy file on the game server. It's over here: http://bc-dev.net/projects/fmud/

Looks like a pretty easy install. Maybe one of the Imms can toss this up? Or at the very least put the policy file on the server so other people can use the client to connect to CF, and promote the client. Would probably be best to do it directly on the CF website though.

As for maintaining IP bans on trouble-makers, would have to ban them from the website too so they couldn't use the flash client to log in.

This guy also made a flash client for Iron Realms that got posted up to Kongregate: http://www.kongregate.com/games/IronRealms/iron-realms

As an aside, might be worthwhile to get in touch with him about doing something similar for CF. Seems that would be a very good use of some of the marketing dollars. Shouldn't cost much if he's already done it. I have no idea how you'd police people logging in through a site like Kongregate though.

Hutto, the Sleepy Nitpicker

When someone uses the flash client, the connection still originates
from his machine, no matter where the client is hosted (Flash runs on the user machine, not the server that hosts the files). There would be
no policing needed and it would make things very easy for those who
want to check out the mud fast (and that is the majority of young ppl today who are blasted with information on the net all the time).

Even if the flash client, one-click and you are playing CF thing is not
possible, having a single .exe or .zip (like ytin with scripts for CF) that the user can download, double-click to run and be immediatelly playing CF would go a long way towards attracting users who are not experienced mud players. If you have a look at the IRE forums, you will find *many* of those. I don't think IRE would go to the trouble of creating first, their own custom java client and then hiring that guy
to fully work on the flash one. They saw return-on-investment.

I think you hit the nail on the head several times. There are lot of people here who while would never IMM would be able to help CF. Love all your ideas and hope the Imms are listening. Also just some random idea:

1. Fan art section on the webpage, the really good ones to be used in as actual art on the site. For example someone draws an amazing fire giant so that gets added to the fire giant description page. The site always seemed kind of sterile to me, and I think more fan involvement with the site then just the forums would interest people more.

2. CF Icon for things like Mudconnector, Zmud, all the vote sites. I brought this up once before and forgot the reasoning why not. However I think people are much more likely to try a mud that has a cool icon next to it's name then doesn't. Makes us looks less legitamate. Also I'm not sure how much the cost is to get us as a default mud for Zmud but I think that would be huge.

3. Your flash client just for CF is a brillant idea. Of course this would require tons of work, but I think if it's done right and put on all these flash sites could bring in tons of new players on it's own.

4. Advertising - Now I have no idea at all what the budget is but I think sites like Penny Arcade would be a great place to draw interest. Especially if you could get the flash client built first.

That which does not kill us,
makes us stronger.

This all sounds good. I posted my post above to kind of spearhead that someone needs to take the reigns on this in some fashion or another. Even if not from a marketing perspective - from a project management perspective of organizing volunteers and giving them the tools they need to meet the success criteria without handing them the keys to CF source code or whatever.

I work as a photographer studio, portrait, product, etc. If there is something I can do to help the marketing effort I would be happy to do so.

Matt

See what I mean in my above post?

This guy is a professional. He might be able to offer photos of wilderness areas, medieval weaponry, old-looking books, etc, all of which could all be put to use somehow, either on the Web page or client.

That said, the Web page could use a little bit of modernization... I could help a little bit with that.

sdf

I'm a coder. I'd give up the ability to play if I were allowed to code. That's pretty much a non-starter though.

*shrug*

As a long time player, and twice failed HeroImm, and recently failed HeroImm applicant:

I applaud your personal efforts Kasty.
(Reads to me like you've earned your MBA, I'm working on mine.)

That said:

My maininput to this thread is in the topic:
CF is bound to be among the top MUDs in Longevity, Tradition, & Stability.
IMHO, we should leverage these assets to the best of our ability.
I'm not qualified to draft a Mission Statement, but I look forward to reviewing one.


The Third Doug.

I think this is very true; even as a player who has never heroed, I have been on and off for 10 years and come back for these reasons! The names of heroes and imms sticks with me, as does the legend of hell itself. CF should take advantage of the factors that keep people coming back and encourage 'brand loyalty'. I don't know, encourage people to get pk'd by famous liches and make a T-shirt.

"Pwnd by Zorsaul"

or something like web banners that say "f*ck mages...love, the Village"

I know that doesn't necessarily give the feel for the RP of CF, but I sure as hell remember the first 30 characters I had, and what happened the second I turned 11. **f'ing ragers....***

I love CF and hope that more people will generate ideas to keep it going.

T-shirt I'm in. Throw a free bowl of cereal at me and I'll never leave....

Anywhoo, heres the story.

I have been taking design classes in my spare time. Which isn't a whole lot because my head chefs a d*ck.

I've been working with a animation design program on of my instructors has shown to me. He's a pretty nerdy dude. He actually caught me playing in class and didn't seem to overly care that much hehe. He told me about some of the things he used to do in his spare time. He was a Shadow Realms player back in the day. (It's a long dead ROM mud, I actually played it a bit as my first mud in high school, but thats off topic)

Been working on a goofy sort of "WoW" comercial for CF. Taking a bit longer than I anticipated. Having problems with some of the shading and frame rate (Occasional fuzz and outright freezes.) Just something I've been doinking about with, not even sure we'd enjoy. Kinda hard to make a short with the amount of content CF offers. It's sort of like the shaman revamp, I'll finish it eventually and find a way to post it to see what other players think.

Might be something we can add to vote websites or the webpage if allowed to do so.

***Nothing about WoW is actually in the short, so flame off Noobs. Zulg if in infringing on some TM or you think I should just end it all together, Please don't canoe whack me! Just let me know please.***

Okay thats the whole of it, I guess just drop a thread and lemme know what y'all think of the idea.