That's pretty much what I'm saying.

I think my sticking point came in "doing things myself" when I asked if I could create a way to get a marketing budget (like just asking the players to donate specifically to marketing) and was basically told "no."

So yes, some things can be done free of charge - but you get what you pay for when it comes to marketing. Ultimately to, as you say "effectively", market CF you need to have at least a small budget (for PPC at least, website stuff etc.) and you need to have access to some statistics that there are currently no ways for me to get.

I'm pretty much done beating this dead horse, but I am presently working on the now overdue W2s of my employees - and I am just trying to avoid doing any real work for the next 10 minutes while I recharge on starbucks. ANYWAYS...

I think that you hit the nail right on the head when you said "I don't know enough about marketing to even be useful in the conversation". It's not a knock on you AT ALL. I very much like you IC and OOC, and truly appreciate the #### you do. Particularly the shifter revamp. That said, yes you don't know anything about marketing and neither do any other staff members - so why do you guys not listen to the people who do and offer to help?

I just feel like there has to be common ground somewhere... that there is a reasonable place to move forward for a "marketing team" of sorts that isn't a "your on your own" mentality.

But yea... I'm going to go back to my arithmetic and tax bills. Oh the glam life I lead. Le sigh.