Thanks for empowerment, Enlilth, and damn you for this task. I am awful player on low/mid ranks, because I am powerranking past them as fast as possible - usually it takes 2-3 days to pass this boredom.

Main mistake - I went for empowerment with most of my skills with 69%, since it was 2-3 day after character's creation. I promise that I will never do it again, and suggest anyone who will go to Enlilth's empowerment too perfect your skills first.

Felt myself as a ####ing dumb kamikadze. Looting my horned corpse didn't help much, too.

Seems I'm done with CF for a year or two after this epic failure. It's for good, because we begun closed beta-test of my MMO game and until we launch it fully, I cannot waste too much time on CF anymore.

Bandeth/Mmumma

I quote Twist... don't worry bout perfect skills.

I quote daevryn too... Game does not start at hero. Low level shaman is pretty dang decent. Greachem made it look really easy.

I didn't say it's hard for shaman. But...

1. For me, game begins at 51st. Sometimes - from 47th, but never before. For MY taste (for trolls/flamers, I will repeat: I am talking ONLY about MYSELF) everything that is below those levels are pure timesink, waste of time and boredom;

2. There is a HUGE difference between 100% skills and 69%. For Twist there is no difference, fine. For me, there is, and I really don't think you will play unpracticed warrior if you are not dumb (or loser). It's true for melee classes, and twice true for communers/casters, especially on low levels, when they have littme amount of mana and every failed spell/commune wastes not 1% of theirmana, but 19-20%.

3. I didn't say it's a bad thing to give such tasks. I only said it's bad for me, because it prevents me from gameplay that I enjoy and which is interesting for me. Yes, I could kill a lot of lowbies on lowlevels (it's easy with shaman), but I don't like to kill noobs (and half of those who would die on lowlevels are noobs). It's a bad style; I strongly despise low/midlevel pkillers and will not become such myself.

If you disagree with me, it's your right. But I've played as I like, and I've played to enjoy the game and process, not to waste my time on things that I have no interest in and even which I am despising.

Why is pk in the teens, 20s, 30s and 40s any different than pk'ing at level 51? You have to fight and they have to fight and you use what you have. If you want you can perfect skills and spells and sups you can do that.

What is a timesink at pre-hero that isn't a hero? LEveling? Then don't. Start pk'ing right away.

If it's only exploration you like, then explore areas you can, and that will almost level you by itself.

Really, explain to me what it is you think makes hero better and not a waste of time, but lower levels are.

>Really, explain to me what it is you think makes hero better
>and not a waste of time, but lower levels are.

The fights are simplistic and lopsided in the extreme.

Lopsided? Says who? Not the facts, that's for sure.

I'd argue, but you like it that way because it's generally lopsided in your favor. The damage scales up much faster than hitpoints, and there's not much DR. So at 25 fights tend to be super quick, which translates into lopsided. You basically never get a reversal of fortune type fight because someone is dead long before that. Does it happen once in a while? Sure.

Of course you love the midranks, Graatch. That's where you can farm mage kills easiest. At hero it's actually competitive.

Everything you say is wrong. Seriously. And worse, it's almost all predicated on the incorrect assumption that we're talking about ragers. Which we are not.

Lots of slow fights pre-25. Lots of big reversals. And only because you are narrow minded and lazy do you think that only ragers win fights at 25.

More, even if all that were true, what about post 25? The original poster said anything pre hero. You just said at 25. Ok, assume that were true. What about 30, 35, 40, 45?

It's all ridiculous. You have to use just as much if not more tactics and thought in early fights as you do later, just different ones. And it's more important precisely because you don't have those hp so you have to be right or you won't have time to escape like you do at hero.

> And worse, it's
>almost all predicated on the incorrect assumption that we're
>talking about ragers. Which we are not.

My entire argument isn't predicated on that assumption, only the part about your bias. It's not that pre-hero is lopsided in broad strokes, though in some cases (warrior vs mage) it is. But almost every *fight* is. Basically the dictum that if you didn't start the fight you should run away holds true much more in the low levels than at hero. At hero, it's usually worth sticking around a bit to see how it goes, as you essentially admit later.

>Lots of slow fights pre-25. Lots of big reversals. And only
>because you are narrow minded and lazy do you think that only
>ragers win fights at 25.

It's not that only ragers win fights. Certainly, warriors farming mages because they're easy kills is one category of lopsided fight. What you're saying here is contradicted by what you say later about not having time to make mistakes. Consider that a missed skill is functionally equivalent to a wrongly chosen skill most of the time. I.e. nothing good happens for you and you're lagged a couple rounds. If you can't afford the mistakes at lower levels, then you can't afford for skills to fail. Reversals are much rarer because one failed skill means retreat at low levels.


>>More, even if all that were true, what about post 25? The
>original poster said anything pre hero. You just said at 25.
>Ok, assume that were true. What about 30, 35, 40, 45?

His argument falls apart closer to hero. Around the late 30s early forties HP totals are catching up to damage output enough for it to be fun again. But there is still some validity to what he is saying. Picking on level 38 people with a final offense form is as lame as picking on level 25 mages with a warrior.

>It's all ridiculous. You have to use just as much if not more
>tactics and thought in early fights as you do later, just
>different ones. And it's more important precisely because you
>don't have those hp so you have to be right or you won't have
>time to escape like you do at hero.

That lack of time to escape is precisely what makes the fights boring. , because it's also a lack of time to pursue all but the very simplest of tactics. One bash being a whole fight is not fun. Like I said at that point it becomes all strategy: who can beg borrow or steal the better gear, who will bother training up skills.

If you set aside some of the jabs, what you really have here is a non-controversial classic case of boomers vs. rushers. In strategy games, boomers are the players that need 40 minutes of unmolested build time to slowly put together a powerhouse civilization that can roll people in the late game. They're the kind of guys that say "no attack for 10 mins, k?" when the game starts. Rushers are the guys that go balls out and finish the game in 10 minutes by spamming early units and battering the other players who are still building granaries and baking pies. They're the type that say "gg no re" while you scream at your monitor.

In CF terms, Marcus is the prototypical rusher type, and someone like Lightmage would be a typical boomer player type. You see these kind of debates on strategy forums all the time, where some frustrated boomers are slamming rushers for boring, "easy" playstyle and vice versa, but really it's not controversial at all, and just a sign of a nice complex game where both styles can succeed at all stages if they adapt well enough.

PS Play that conjurer?

It completely doesn't square with my experience.

Bad and good class matchups which lead to epic pwnage being suffered are evident at almost every level range. If you're regularly getting owned at any level, I'm more inclined to believe that it's because you are too lazy and unwilling to improve - not that there is a game balance issue. Clever players manage to PK at all ranks.

Stop trolling. You know there is a huge difference.
If you don't - you spent so many years without any improvement.

Right. Say not a single thing to explain or support your ridiculous assertion that there is nothing in the game pre hero.

Seriously, you're absurdly wrong.

Valkenar gave you extended answer, but it will not work - you won't understand (just because you, actually, do not want to understand or accept someone's else point).

So, I prefer not to waste time on you and going into expainations that you won't even try to understand.

I'm a serial warrior player. 15-18 hero warriors. TWICE ever in 5 years have I perfected my skills in other ways than just regular lvling. (aka botting dodge/parry/weapons pre 20. and spec skills once I've gotten them.) One of those instances it was an arial assassin so was real quick.

The chars I DID perfect stuff with wasn't much more deadly than my other chars. And it ended up just being boring to do.

Every char I've had have been PKing pre-hero and had tons of fun. The skills have gone up through normal ranking. My warriors that haven't been tanking have taken a bit longer, but still parry/dodge is mastered pre-hero anyways without any "real" tanking in groups.

I am yet to master flurry for example with ANY of my swords specs I've played. The best I've gotten to was 99% after 170ish hours. But then again I've never really tried to except with one char... Got stuck at 90% but I only had 60 hours by then so it's all good.

My fire giant AP didn't TRY to master any skills/spells and yet at lvl 36 I had mastered parry/shield block and ALMOST all my weapons except polearm. At 40 most of my spells were perfected as well but that was from lvl sitting to PK at 36 for 90 hours. I didn't activily try to get my skills/spells up. And Kaer had roughly 80-90 kills at lvl 40. 31 charges on the weapon and 45 in total. So wasn't a failure! Hell I only had sleep at 82% and still slept quite a few opponents. (See Greachem who I killed a few times.)

Jaina my drow-transmuter experiment had perfect almost every single spell at lvl 49 or 50 just by lvling/exploring/PKing. And I sat a bit to PK at 30, 37, 40. No skills/spells % are not VITAL. They help a little bit...

I don't really care what YOU like in game. I care for what I like in the game, from that I do enjoy. Not you. You are not me, not playing my characters, not wasting my time. And I am happy that you like to play lowlevel warriors, congratulations and etc.

I will repeat for Graatches: I am not telling you how to play. If you like to play lowlevel characters, fine. If you like to have mudsex - fine. If you like to play a gay duergar - fine, play it, I do not mind, CF is interested because of it's variety.

But if YOU like to play those, this doesn't mean that I must enjoy the same. In other words, if you like cartoons, good for you. I prefer psychological thrillers.


Got it?

Thanks, now move along.

All I'm really saying is this. If you attach playing the game and enjoying the game purely to 51, then you're missing out. The tactics and the game evolve as you progress through levels. It's not about level sitting at 18 and wiping out the 3 people in your range repeatedly, but it could be. If you consider it a failure that you're waiting around on me for empowerment at 30, then probably my religion isn't your cup of tea. After all, how are you going to prove yourself strong enough to forcibly take what you want (if need be) if you make it to hero and you're 0-0? At that point (against shaman especially) everyone is gearing specifically to make your life against them harder.

Things I powerrank to hero are pretty limited to transmuters, shifters, and conjies. Maybe bard in there too. Everything else I like seeing what tactics work at level X and which don't. Don't get me wrong in the slightest, I'm not powerhouse pk guy, but I really enjoy trying.

The most imbalancing thing to happen in cf of late, imho, is enabling priests to use supps to level 20 without empowerment. Because shaman get a deadly set of tools at very low level.

nt

It's all on russian. Probably english version will be available in next 6 months.

You can e-mail me to contacts@planewars.com and someday I will send you invitation.