(Got counted as a rage delete, where it was far from that)

I can't help but feel disappointed about how everything went. I'm busting my butt to be a good rager, when in doubt, I assumed that really nice piece of gear I found is magical, meaning that I couldn't gear properly and had to miss out on some gear I actually needed. I talked, acted and fought as a Berserker at ALL times, and after several days of waiting, induction goes bad, cause Jinroh isn't convinced. Yet, I have no clue what else I could have done or said. I guess trying to give an unusual twist to a rager is not done.

Nimrurl: Only friend I had, probably only based on a shared view in life, but a good one none the less.

Shurelia: I was glad we dediced to be allies.

Thalin: I hope that was according to role, if not, that was cold.

Dregvoshan: For such a powerfull combo, I rarely saw you alone. Maybe coincidence, maybe not.

Uukius: Same as Dregvoshan, except that I seriously doubt it's coincidence in your case.

i had a lot of fun travellin with u and Viran that day. then when viran had to go, things got even more fun eh luck on the next.

You seemed like you were a follower of Reason. Which is not an eliminating factor for becoming a villager, but I do cannot really fathom a reason follower wanting to be a berserker, but I rolled with it. Second, you were extremely nice, overtly nice almost, which didn't hinder or harm your chances of being a berserker, but didn't help. Your answers to questions were very well suited for a defender or scout, but not for a berserker in any shape or form. I left you to think about them, and you delete.

The village is not about a five minute talk and getting in and being a berserker. Most berserkers went through some trials, to prove themselves. Although your first attempt to get in didn't go well, I also didn't sever the chance that you could continue and go from there. In fact, most berserkers I face with some failure to see how they deal with it. You made that choice, and I'm sorry if you believed I was basically kicking you in the teeth, but I wasn't. Those who stick to it, from the obviously skilled player to the utter newbie, are rewarded.

As for non-traditional roles in the village, if you talk to any of them you will find many of them have non-traditional roles.

All in all, thought it was a good character, as a player. As the character Jinroh, I was not fully impressed to give you the chance, yet. I intentially put you in a position of failure to see how you deal with it, didn't work out well, but in the end, I believe it did. Because if you think being a berserker is a cake walk, its not, nor should it be. It is one of the most difficult paths to take in the mud in general.

Good luck with your new magic using character.

I liked the times we grouped. You seemed like a whole person
or at least reasonably well fleshed out. That was cool.
I wouldn't say you were a friend of Nimrurl's, more that you
were someone he could adventure with.

I am a bit surprised that you wanted to be a berserker, I would
have guessed at one of the other paths.

As for you trying an original role being the reason you didn't get
inducted, I seriously doubt it.

After all, there is nothing new under the sun. Everything has been
done several times. Only quality matters here. As the other players
have suggested, you should probably just have waited a bit more.
Especially since you only spoke to Jinroh twice?

However, we play this game to have fun, and if it is not fun, I
certainly understand your decision to delete. Being a warrior rager
applicant is something of a special case since each level you get after 20
makes you relatively weaker.

Good luck with your next char. I hope you have more fun with that.

Jinroh does a fine job of determining a character's worth, I find.

Is he absolutely rigid? No. My berserker came for an interview wearing obviously magical gear. He asked me if I had lore, I told him I didn't, and he informed me that I needed to get rid of Piece Of Gear X. He said if it happened again, I could kiss my chances goodbye. Then I had a really hard time with the tasks he gave me, mostly due to (I think) bad luck. Did he grow impatient, or tell me I was leaving too many corpses lying around for a villager? No.

When I explained my stance on magic, which is not "I hate magic, magic is a stain upon the land, magic killed my parents, I want to kill all mages because they are smarter than me, I want to kill all mages because they are stealing power from the gods" (all of which are perfectly viable for a rager role, just not mine), he was interested (or at least feigned interest).

When another berserker app was forced to fight a rager to display his tactical ability and died miserably instead, did Jinroh give him up for a lost cause? No, and in fact the guy got inducted and had a pretty damn good run.

If you didn't make it because you were roleplaying something completely inappropriate (and it would have had to be COMPLETELY inappropriate), why would you complain? You took a chance by telling Jinroh that, in fact, you loved magic and all mages, and wanted only to tickle them because they enjoy it, and sometimes you accidentally kill them when you do that. He may be flexible, but he still is the leader of a cabal, and he still does need to keep certain standards and make sure those in the village are of a like philosophy.

Well..thoughts on the brief interactions we had. Rp wise..you struck me as too nice to be a berserker. Don't know if thats part of the role, but action-wise I thought you did a good job.

Anyway, shame you were disappointed, sometimes some dedication and patience's all it takes. If it stops being fun though, can't really blame you.

See you around.

"I talked, acted and fought as a Berserker at ALL times, and after several days of waiting, induction goes bad, cause Jinroh isn't convinced. Yet, I have no clue what else I could have done or said. I guess trying to give an unusual twist to a rager is not done."

1. Several days of waiting is nothing. I'm not surprised it takes more than that to convince Jinroh.

2. You say "Induction goes bad (sic) because Jinroh isn't convinced."

I read "I didn't show the determination to keep trying when it appeared I might not get what I wanted". If he's not convinced, plug away at it for a bit, get in touch when you see him, and convince him.

3. What else could you have done or said? You could have actually stuck to your beliefs when induction didn't go so well instead of deleting.

4. "I guess trying to give an unusual twist to a rager is not done."

I read "It couldn't have been that I gave up too soon. It must be that the system is against me."


You know what? I applaud your attitude to gear. Not wearing things that look like they might be magical, for example. I hate it that more ragers don't do this. Things like charred bracers looked magical if you read their description, yet rager apps used to happily wear them anyway. Bad rp imho. I'd say it is pointless making a good gesture like you did if you fold as soon as things don't go your way.

My current character got knocked back from his first interview, but I still got inducted. It wasn't even that bad. All I had to do was show that I was still interested, despite the refusal.

>1. Several days of waiting is nothing. I'm not surprised it takes more than that to convince Jinroh.

I sent a note at lvl19, I approach him when I see him, at lvl23, tells me I need to gain a few ranks first, I do, during the time he's still around. I let him know, he says he has to go. Cool. At lvl35(!, including a big exp hole) I see and approach him again, we talk over a distance and based on that he decides to be unconvinced. I don't know how you'd feel, but I found that annoying.

As Istirith pointed out, Ayran's was somewhat friendly, because his motive for fighting mages was different. If that's a problem, I guess a cabal full of identical members must be a whole lot more interesting, right?

>2. You say "Induction goes bad (sic) because Jinroh isn't convinced.

>I read "I didn't show the determination to keep trying when it appeared I might not get what I wanted". If he's not convinced, plug away at it for a bit, get in touch when you see him, and convince him."

See the above. For one without the ability to see mages, I killed quite a lot of them.

>3. What else could you have done or said? You could have actually stuck to your beliefs when induction didn't go so well instead of deleting.

>4. "I guess trying to give an unusual twist to a rager is not done."

>I read "It couldn't have been that I gave up too soon. It must be that the system is against me.">
You assume the 'induction talk' is the reason I deleted. Was just the last drop.

> My current character got knocked back from his first interview, but I still got inducted. It wasn't even that bad. All I had to do was show that I was still interested, despite the refusal

Guess what, I wasn't interested no more ...

If he was testing your dedication, which seems based on what I have seen of him both IC and on the forums to be likely, then you failed the test. It wasn't that you just wanted in the village, you wanted in, and wanted to be a berserker, not as easy to have now as it was a year ago, and for good reason.

You want to look at things wholly from the perspective of "Well I put in so many hours of work, and killed x number of mages, and got squat" and thats a fine perspective.

Jinroh however, is looking at things from a "I am a leader. I have a responsibility to build a cabal of dedicated individuals. DIE MAGE DIE. I have several immortal cabal patrons whom I have to answer to for each and every person I induct, and my choices will reflect on me in their eyes. KILL THE ####ING MAGE! I have a job to do, which includes being sure that any berserkers getting in now are not simply throw away 'I will delete at the first sign of frustration, then just roll up another zerker char, wash, rinse,repeat' character. PULL THE ####ING MAGES HEART OUT THROUGH HIS ASS!! I will be remembered for the villagers inducted on my watch" perspective.

Now, this means more frustrations for the players looking to be berserkers. it also means more frustrations for Jinroh, having to take more time with each berserker applicant. While I sympathize with you, I can also see his side of things and just have to join in the chorus of "If you deleted, you must not have wanted it too badly".

Brush yourself off, roll something else, and take it as a lesson in cabals.

Without ANY magical means, I was pretty successfull (7 kills/11 deaths). At least six of those deaths could have been easily avoided with a recall/teleport potion, which I can't use.

Often this made me think that 'if I HAD used magic(al gear), I'd have done even better, but, if that's what it takes to be a Villager, than so be it'.

I wanted to see if I would enjoy playing a zerker wannabee. All in all, I guess I didn't. Now off to play a magic using char, I'll do even better.

nt

My point is not how successful you were in pk. My point is that you when the induction thing went against you, that was it as far as you were concerned.

I suspect that had you kept going, you would have been more likely to get inducted than not.

Post deleted by moderator. Please keep your flames and racial/cultural stereotypes to yourself.

Since the Russian is drunk on vodka, I imagine I'll have to represent him.

I was browsing through some past villager files, and believe Vladamir is upset over the matter concerning Gretta. See In re: Gretta, http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=4&topic_id=25937&mesg_id=25937&page= ...

I think what some players might have gleaned from that discussion is that Jinroh bears a presumption against inducting newbies. I didn't read it that way, but as we can see, there is now a second player who has given up from discouragement. You certainly took it to Gretta, and perhaps that has set a kind of tone for upcoming applicants.

Jegec pointed out that there is a distinction between a complete newbie, and a newbie to BATTLE. While not a complete newbie, Gretta was apparently a newbie to BATTLE. She probably auto-deleted because she did not meet the requirements for Berserker. I don't blame her. I haven't seen too many neutral fire giant scouts without specs. I also do not think you were given due credit for your time with her, so that is much appreciated.

In Ayran's case, his RP was consistent with a villager and he is far from a complete newbie. I would obviously defer to your judgment as to his quality, however. It is safe to say that he was discouraged by his interaction with Jinroh, and consequently gave up.

The RP and skill requirements for BATTLE are very stiff, and I am very happy that you maintain these standards. It is just a shame to lose perfectly decent characters, if they resign for fear that they may be too newbie-ish. Trying to equal, say, Vlaugniur or Jinroh is a daunting task for most recent BATTLE applicants.

I may be wrong in raising these issues, but I think the standards for berserker are not completely clear. This is not so much a concern with Jinroh, and it may be more of an IC question, or a topic for another forum. To put my observations simply, berserker-seeking players like Ayran and Gretta are being discouraged.

I'll make this post relate to the topic at present, however. Nice job, Ayran. You were doing your job, and just needed to press on. Jinroh's just doing his job as well. He can seem a bit unmoveable, being a pillar and all that.

Maybe I didn't make it very clear, but I did not delete out of frustation about someone. If I blame anyone, it would rather be myself for no longer enjoying an experiment that looked like fun at the start.

Though obviously a key element, the 'bad induction' wasn't the actual reason. As I have been in other cabals, I know that such doesn't come by itself. I think that a recommendation system works better for cabal induction. Especially for a actions-say-more-than-words character like Ayran, since others would be able to tell Jinroh about how I fought.

So yes, I knew I had to press on to get inducted, but I didn't feel like putting forth that kind of effort, since I felt it would be wasted on a character I wasn't particularly enjoying anymore either way.

Ayran is just a chapter I'm happy to see closed. Let's keep it at that.

Just a quick note, Vlaugniur was a complete newbie to BATTLE (or berserkers at least) and he did really well.

Gretta seemed to me to be a complete newbie in general, to the mud, everything. I spent a lot of time, 20 some hours helping her out, guiding her, etc. Gretta was even inducted into battle, and given the berserker position, and given the chance, and on the second day of being in, stopped playing and auto deleted. It made me angry and I am not going to sugar coat my feelings about it to make sure everyone feels comfy with Battle.

I am, in no way anti newbie, I inducted many who were not only newbies to the Battle cabal but also newbies in general. Ayran was doing a very nice job with his character, but just because his character is going well, a.k.a., last name, etc., does not mean I induct him instantly, nor anyone, nor do you have to have any last name, title, or anyone heard of you to be inducted. Roleplay causes clashes on many levels, good roleplay does not equate to always getting along, nor always getting what you want, right away at least.

I am the first to admit Jinroh is a hard ass on a lot of levels, you do have to understand he is not only leader but also EVIL. Everyone should be happy to know I'm not like that in real life, I think...

My comment in no way reflected on your character, his actions or anything. The remainder of my post however, was supporting of the character and his right to deny entrance for various reasons. My feelings about your OOC persona had nothing at all to do with the meat of my post, just the title.

I did not know that char at all, but i know you would do well to loose that arrogant tone Jinroh. It sticks out in game as well as here.

this unique problem of dealing with egoes on the inside, and rabid criticism from the outside. It takes a certain player type to regulate this nonsense. Jinroh's job is a thankless one.

I can certainly understand where you're coming from, but Jinroh isn't the only BATTLE leader (mortal or immortal) that has been labelled with a word starting with the letter "A". I am beginning to see why.

In any event, he's perfectly reasonable. I'm just worried about BATTLE-newbie applicants feeling put off by his intensity. No newbie should be afraid to try, or feel discouraged. The Gretta incident left a sour taste for some people. It showed that he DOES get upset (he's only human). However, it also shows that he DOES care about other players, because he was disappointed after going out on a limb for her.

He just has an image to uphold. BATTLE are much more up to par on average than, say, a few years ago. When you lead skilled, often rowdy players, you can generally only be successful by demonstrating more discipline, skill, and RP than the rest.

As far as his tone, pfeh. Some might call it arrogance. But really, he achieved his status through honest ethics. I've seen him day in, day out, fighting off gangs and taking the time to RP. There's no arrogance in that. Shoot him for being literate and hard-working, the rat bastard.

Thankfully, in Ayran's case, he was not discouraged. He just did not feel like going on. I don't blame him. No one fights you unprepped, or alone these days. Once you push into those thirties with no real results, it ceases to be fun. Ayran wasn't the only one who decided that his time was up.

Jinroh is arrogant. He is mean. He can be a complete ass. Who cares? That's who he is. It's not his player who's all of these things (well, he might be... but that's digressing)

Jinroh is a leader of the mightiest warriors in Thera. He deserves to be a mean, arrogant ass.

From inside the cabal as Betraal, I actually didn't really like Jinroh BUT I always knew that he was looking out for what's best for Battle - ALWAYS.

Battle is not the Empire - where people get kicked out at whim. When you're Battle, unless you're blatantly disobeying the laws, you're Battle for life. Kicking people out is a sign of weakness - so the best way to keep the good people in and the bad out is a mean, arrogant ass making sure you wand-lovin' magi lovers don't get inducted.

Keep up the good work Jinroh... but damnit, induct my gnome transmuter will you?