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Marcus_Mon 19-Apr-10 04:09 PM
Member since 04th Mar 2003
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#31985, "Some thoughts on making low/mid level pk better."
Edited on Mon 19-Apr-10 04:10 PM

          

1) Balance mages vs. melee

there's a balancing problem at low/mid ranks since melee damage is basically a function of your eq, while mage damage is a function of the level. This means there will always be problems balancing the game since the power range of characters becomes very big. Easy fix for this:

Make eq work like weapons, so that if you are level 20 wearing a level 50 piece of eq, then all stats from that eq piece is modified by (MIN(char_level/eq_level), 1)..

So the formula for all eq stats would become ROUNDUP(eq_stat*MIN(char_level/eq_level, 1))

It would probably suck for my lowbie ragers from a powergaming POV, but it would also make things more fun if mages tried to fight back instead of teleport when a melee guy shows up on where.

It will also have a side effect of reducing the incentive to cheating eq to lowbie chars (good) and to full loot decked heros as a lowbie (i don't care about this.. but i know others do.. so good i suppose as it might reduce churn).

Side note: I used roundup because it's boring if eq starts giving no stats at all.

2) Mage power vs. Invisibility

At low level fights are usually over quicker than at hero. Especially if it is between a warrior and a mage since the mage has neither defenses nor damage reduction. And warriors do not do *that* much less damage. This means that mages will usually choose to go invisible rather than to fight.

Solution: Move all parry/dodge/shield block/shield spell to pre-10 levels. Move invisibility to level 25. (This change coupled with the above might actually make mages too strong.. I think one strong reason mages generally get their asses kicked at low/mid ranks is that they just try to avoid PK and power level. Which means ####ty gear, no preps, and low skill percentages. As well as often being caught unawares (since they teleport when they see an enemy otherwise).

3) Class specific adjustments:

Some classes have no or just one decent skill and crappy melee at the low ranks. This means no tactical diversity. Try to ensure that all classes have a decent number of options as soon as pk starts. Pre-form shapeshifters have nothing, and 1st tier form is usually sucky for its level.
Invokers have only a couple of damage spells and no real tactics.
Pre-familiar conjurers have only magic missile. With familiar they might be able to fight, but still not well enough.

4) Incentives:

4a) Take away level requirement for edges. Will give you an incentive to explore / PK / RP early.

4b) Challenges (a new thing): You can choose from a selection of challenges from your guildmaster that you can try to complete before hitting levels 10,20,30,40,51. If you complete the challenge before reaching that level, you get a couple of edge points. Challenges could be:

Challenge of perfection: Master 5 skills
Challenge of blood: PK 5 different people
Challenge of commerce: Trade goods to a value of 100 gold.
Challenge of crime: Become wanted
Challenge of exploration: Find 5 exploration points.
Challenge of questiness: Complete 5 quests.
Challenge of masochism: Die 3 times
Challenge of glory: Defeat 3 different opponents in the arena
etc...

You can choose the same challenge as many times as you want, but the
threshold increases every time if you do.

4c) (Thought about this quite late, but I really like it) The first death you suffer at each level doesn't cost you any CON.

4d) (I really like this one too) You age slower (in years per RL hour) at lower ranks.

To explain 4c) and 4d): The most time efficient strategy for maximizing your hero rank power is to power level and then do explore/obs/commerce XP and PK for edge points. This aims to subsidize doing stuff at lower ranks.

  

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HOT Locked TopicRandom topic of discussion: Midlevels [View all] , Daevryn, Tue 18-May-10 08:27 PM
Reply Thread locked for sprawl. Please start sub-topics. (n/..., Valguarnera, 20-May-10 05:37 AM, #177
Reply Low level limited badassery items., Straklaw, 18-May-10 05:35 PM, #162
Reply Just a thought:, Marcus_, 17-May-10 12:43 PM, #154
Reply RE: Just a thought:, Daevryn, 17-May-10 02:09 PM, #163
     Reply I actually like Marcus' idea., sleepy, 17-May-10 02:42 PM, #155
     Reply Hello from Hollywood., Pro, 18-May-10 01:31 AM, #156
     Reply RE: Hello from Hollywood., Fjarn, 19-May-10 10:08 AM, #166
          Reply RE: Hello from Hollywood., sorlag (Anonymous), 19-May-10 10:23 AM, #168
               Reply Definitely, Valkenar, 19-May-10 10:35 AM, #169
               Reply RE: Hello from Hollywood., Isildur, 19-May-10 12:38 PM, #170
                    Reply RE: Hello from Hollywood., Valkenar, 19-May-10 12:56 PM, #171
                    Reply RE: Hello from Hollywood., Isildur, 19-May-10 01:25 PM, #172
                         Reply Meh, Valkenar, 19-May-10 03:03 PM, #173
                              Reply RE: Meh, Isildur, 19-May-10 03:09 PM, #174
                    Reply RE: Hello from Hollywood., sorlag (Anonymous), 19-May-10 03:11 PM, #175
     Reply RE: Just a thought:, ORB, 18-May-10 08:37 AM, #157
     Reply As a total train whore, Valkenar, 18-May-10 09:29 AM, #158
     Reply Cosign., Dervish, 18-May-10 11:13 AM, #160
     Reply RE: As a total train whore, Isildur, 18-May-10 04:10 PM, #161
          Reply Con trains, Valkenar, 19-May-10 08:00 AM, #165
     Reply RE: Just a thought:, Hutto, 18-May-10 10:57 AM, #159
     Reply RE: Just a thought:, Fjarn, 19-May-10 10:12 AM, #167
          Reply Maybe, Valkenar, 19-May-10 08:34 PM, #176
     Reply Using Marcus' idea but, Abernyte, 19-May-10 06:19 AM, #164
Reply Now that this has cooked for a while, Mekantos, 06-May-10 12:51 PM, #144
Reply RE: Now that this has cooked for a while, Daevryn, 06-May-10 12:53 PM, #145
     Reply FYI, this is up on Announcements now (n/t), Daevryn, 12-May-10 02:27 PM, #153
Reply An imm question related to this topic, Habbs, 04-May-10 01:06 PM, #138
Reply Mostly no:, Daevryn, 04-May-10 01:26 PM, #139
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Straklaw, 26-Apr-10 04:00 AM, #136
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Tyrjal, 25-Apr-10 07:13 PM, #135
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Tsunami, 24-Apr-10 12:30 PM, #132
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Doge, 23-Apr-10 09:49 PM, #130
Reply There used to be no xp cap., trewyn, 23-Apr-10 10:55 PM, #131
     Reply THE XP DYING PENALTY PLEASE, dribbit, 24-Apr-10 08:49 PM, #133
     Reply If you can't find your way out of a strange area, quaff..., DurNominator, 24-Apr-10 11:41 PM, #134
     Reply RE: There used to be no xp cap., Doge, 26-Apr-10 02:23 PM, #137
          Reply But the good thing about seeing -34% tnl, Pendragon_Surtr, 06-May-10 03:19 AM, #141
Reply For me, there is always a tickle in the back of my head..., Habbs, 23-Apr-10 11:48 AM, #129
Reply Adjust XP penalties, adjust ranking areas, adjust where, Amortis, 22-Apr-10 09:52 AM, #125
Reply re: expanded where, Quixotic, 22-Apr-10 12:34 PM, #127
Reply Spell Power Vs. Enhanced Damage, Seilclavin, 20-Apr-10 09:52 AM, #115
Reply RE: Gear-based Spell Idea, Quixotic, 20-Apr-10 11:52 AM, #119
Reply RE: Gear-based Spell Idea, Daevryn, 20-Apr-10 12:23 PM, #120
     Reply You overlooked, Quixotic, 20-Apr-10 12:35 PM, #121
     Reply RE: Gear-based Spell Idea, The Heretic, 07-May-10 09:21 AM, #146
Reply Best way to equalize mages and melee, Doof, 21-Apr-10 11:55 AM, #124
     Reply RE: Best way to equalize mages and melee, wjdenny, 05-May-10 02:16 PM, #140
Reply I haven't read the rest of the posts, but I like mid le..., Cointreau, 20-Apr-10 03:42 AM, #109
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Asthiss, 20-Apr-10 02:40 AM, #108
Reply I disagree., Eskelian, 20-Apr-10 09:14 AM, #113
     Reply RE: I disagree., Asthiss, 21-Apr-10 02:18 AM, #123
Reply RE: My Experience, Tac, 19-Apr-10 07:50 PM, #102
Reply Actually I do have one suggestion...., Tac, 19-Apr-10 08:00 PM, #103
Reply I like these suggestions a lot., ibuki, 20-Apr-10 05:11 AM, #111
Reply Another random thought.... re: scrolls, Tac, 20-Apr-10 02:56 PM, #122
Reply My opinion re: class balance at mid-levels:, Valguarnera, 19-Apr-10 06:58 PM, #99
Reply Good post., Zephon, 19-Apr-10 09:22 PM, #105
Reply I pretty much agree with all of this, Drag0nSt0rm, 19-Apr-10 10:51 PM, #106
Reply Shout-out to the IMM staff within., TheLastMohican, 19-Apr-10 11:03 PM, #107
Reply These are great observations. nt, GinGa, 20-Apr-10 03:47 AM, #110
Reply RE: My opinion re: class balance at mid-levels:, Cerunnir, 20-Apr-10 08:11 AM, #112
     Reply Not to me, trewyn, 20-Apr-10 09:13 AM, #114
          Reply RE: Not to me, Daevryn, 20-Apr-10 09:55 AM, #116
          Reply She did on Dio's., Dervish, 20-Apr-10 10:41 AM, #118
          Reply RE: Not to me, Cerunnir, 20-Apr-10 10:22 AM, #117
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, GrahamC, 19-Apr-10 05:50 PM, #93
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, laxman, 19-Apr-10 06:16 PM, #96
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Isildur, 19-Apr-10 05:37 PM, #91
Reply do it once do it twice, laxman, 19-Apr-10 06:12 PM, #95
     Reply Its the luck factor..., Elerosse, 19-Apr-10 06:29 PM, #97
Reply Perception is a killer, laxman, 19-Apr-10 04:41 PM, #84
Reply Holy crap Mulshine, I totally agree with you for once!, TheLastMohican, 19-Apr-10 04:43 PM, #85
Reply RE: Perception is a killer, Eskelian, 19-Apr-10 05:34 PM, #90
Reply Some thoughts on making low/mid level pk better., Marcus_, 19-Apr-10 04:10 PM #76
Reply RE: Some thoughts on making low/mid level pk better., Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 04:13 PM, #77
Reply RE: Equipment, vargal, 19-Apr-10 04:23 PM, #79
Reply I disagree on mage/melee, laxman, 19-Apr-10 04:23 PM, #80
     Reply I agree with this., sorlag (Anonymous), 19-Apr-10 04:54 PM, #86
     Reply RE: I disagree on mage/melee, Marcus_, 19-Apr-10 05:09 PM, #88
          Reply again when did you see one try, laxman, 19-Apr-10 06:07 PM, #94
               Reply RE: again when did you see one try, Marcus_, 19-Apr-10 06:33 PM, #98
Reply A batch of thoughts, Mekantos, 19-Apr-10 03:54 PM, #70
Reply Two points: cabal imbalance and shiny addictions, Vortex Magus, 19-Apr-10 03:41 PM, #69
Reply RE: Two points: cabal imbalance and shiny addictions, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 04:08 PM, #74
Reply Damage scaling, Con gains, and skills, Valkenar, 19-Apr-10 02:15 PM, #55
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Eskelian, 19-Apr-10 01:01 PM, #37
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 01:09 PM, #42
     Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, sorlag (Anonymous), 19-Apr-10 01:13 PM, #43
     Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 01:19 PM, #47
     Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, sorlag (Anonymous), 19-Apr-10 01:33 PM, #50
     Reply Bards certainly are weak, thendrell, 19-Apr-10 02:26 PM, #60
     Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Hutto, 19-Apr-10 01:23 PM, #48
     Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 01:28 PM, #49
          Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Hutto, 19-Apr-10 01:42 PM, #52
               Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 02:12 PM, #58
     Reply Here we go, Dervish, 19-Apr-10 01:46 PM, #53
     Reply RE: Here we go, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 02:07 PM, #56
          Reply Thoughts + ideas., Cerunnir, 19-Apr-10 03:04 PM, #59
               Reply Cosign. I'd love to see some logs of PBFs, Nep nt, Dervish, 19-Apr-10 02:31 PM, #61
               Reply RE: Cosign. I'd love to see some logs of PBFs, Nep nt, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 02:54 PM, #63
                    Reply I cant resist to quote you, Dervish, 19-Apr-10 03:01 PM, #65
                         Reply RE: I cant resist to quote you, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 03:21 PM, #67
                              Reply Tell their names at least? nt, Dervish, 19-Apr-10 04:18 PM, #78
                                   Reply RE: Tell their names at least? nt, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 04:28 PM, #82
                                   Reply I beat down people with my four path invoker..., TheLastMohican, 19-Apr-10 04:28 PM, #83
                                        Reply Well, Dervish, 19-Apr-10 04:59 PM, #87
                                             Reply RE: Well, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 07:10 PM, #100
               Reply RE: Here we go, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 02:54 PM, #62
                    Reply RE: Here we go, Cerunnir, 19-Apr-10 03:16 PM, #66
                    Reply RE: Here we go, Mekantos, 19-Apr-10 03:56 PM, #72
                         Reply RE: Here we go, Dervish, 19-Apr-10 05:12 PM, #89
                              Reply Urden, Jahfenar, Ilrahsek, Ikanu., Mekantos, 19-Apr-10 05:39 PM, #92
     Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Eskelian, 19-Apr-10 02:17 PM, #54
Reply Things that would make me stay in the mid levels, Drag0nSt0rm, 19-Apr-10 12:55 PM, #35
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Beroxxus, 19-Apr-10 12:54 PM, #34
Reply Give out Cabal Rewards Sooner, trewyn, 19-Apr-10 12:48 PM, #31
Reply Cosign on first and last suggestions nt, Dervish, 19-Apr-10 12:51 PM, #33
Reply I agree with all of these ideas. 110% nt, Drag0nSt0rm, 19-Apr-10 12:57 PM, #36
Reply RE: Give out Cabal Rewards Sooner, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 01:05 PM, #40
Reply Explore early and move is never a problem., thendrell, 19-Apr-10 01:14 PM, #44
Reply Except, Dervish, 19-Apr-10 01:40 PM, #51
Reply RE: Give out Cabal Rewards Sooner, Mekantos, 19-Apr-10 01:15 PM, #45
Reply RE: Give out Cabal Rewards Sooner, GrahamC, 19-Apr-10 02:55 PM, #64
     Reply RE: Give out Cabal Rewards Sooner, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 03:24 PM, #68
          Reply <== is king of that., trewyn, 19-Apr-10 07:32 PM, #101
               Reply Ragers do get ####ed. But that's part of being a rager..., TheLastMohican, 19-Apr-10 09:07 PM, #104
Reply RE: movement regen, Zulghinlour, 19-Apr-10 03:59 PM, #73
     Reply RE: movement regen, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 04:09 PM, #75
     Reply RE: movement regen, Marcus_, 19-Apr-10 04:28 PM, #81
     Reply RE: movement regen, Isildur, 14-May-10 11:29 AM, #151
     Reply RE: movement regen, Hutto, 13-May-10 05:00 PM, #147
          Reply RE: movement regen, Isildur, 14-May-10 11:19 AM, #150
Reply This isn't a possitive but..., Pro, 19-Apr-10 11:58 AM, #22
Reply I would say my biggest mechanical dislike in the game i..., Pro, 19-Apr-10 12:01 PM, #23
     Reply RE: I would say my biggest mechanical dislike in the ga..., sorlag (Anonymous), 19-Apr-10 01:17 PM, #46
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, thendrell, 19-Apr-10 11:58 AM, #21
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 12:31 PM, #29
     Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, sorlag (Anonymous), 19-Apr-10 01:06 PM, #41
     Reply Damn your logic., thendrell, 19-Apr-10 02:07 PM, #57
     Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Gryshilniar, 06-May-10 12:09 PM, #142
          Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Daevryn, 06-May-10 12:50 PM, #143
               Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, A2, 13-May-10 11:45 PM, #148
                    Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Daevryn, 14-May-10 09:00 AM, #149
                         Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, A2, 14-May-10 11:33 AM, #152
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, TJHuron, 19-Apr-10 11:49 AM, #20
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 12:28 PM, #27
     Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, TJHuron, 19-Apr-10 01:03 PM, #39
Reply Ideas, Quixotic, 19-Apr-10 11:18 AM, #12
Reply RE: Ideas, sorlag (Anonymous), 19-Apr-10 11:28 AM, #16
Reply RE: Heralds, Quixotic, 19-Apr-10 12:22 PM, #25
     Reply RE: Heralds, sorlag (Anonymous), 19-Apr-10 12:49 PM, #32
          Reply RE: Heralds, thendrell, 19-Apr-10 03:53 PM, #71
Reply RE: Ideas, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 11:31 AM, #17
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Hutto, 19-Apr-10 11:08 AM, #10
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Hutto, 19-Apr-10 11:42 AM, #13
     Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Hutto, 22-Apr-10 10:10 AM, #126
          Reply Con Loss., Pro, 22-Apr-10 01:57 PM, #128
Reply Off the cuff., Dallevian, 19-Apr-10 10:55 AM, #8
Reply Last thing would be great to help newbies nt, Dervish, 19-Apr-10 11:27 AM, #15
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, ORB, 19-Apr-10 10:48 AM, #7
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 10:56 AM, #9
     Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, sorlag (Anonymous), 19-Apr-10 11:16 AM, #11
          Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 11:26 AM, #14
               Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, sorlag (Anonymous), 19-Apr-10 11:37 AM, #18
               Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 12:22 PM, #24
                    Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, sorlag (Anonymous), 19-Apr-10 01:00 PM, #38
               Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Dervish, 19-Apr-10 11:43 AM, #19
                    Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 12:26 PM, #26
                         Reply Yes, I agree with you. I just pointed out two cases I e..., Dervish, 19-Apr-10 12:29 PM, #28
                              Reply Fair enough n/t, Daevryn, 19-Apr-10 12:33 PM, #30
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, sorlag (Anonymous), 19-Apr-10 10:30 AM, #3
Reply Nothing., Dervish, 19-Apr-10 10:30 AM, #2
Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, 34-inside, 19-Apr-10 10:20 AM, #1
     Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, sorlag (Anonymous), 19-Apr-10 10:34 AM, #4
          Reply Dunno, I never had big problems finding a group, Dervish, 19-Apr-10 10:38 AM, #5
          Reply RE: Random topic of discussion: Midlevels, 34-inside, 19-Apr-10 10:39 AM, #6
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