This falls under the category of the dual wield project.

We've talked about things like this in the past, but it is a complete overhaul of how immunities, resists, vulnerabilities work, and until someone has the time to take on this large of a project it will continue to sit around as an idea.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

For the past few years, I've been putzing around with Rom 2.4b code to somewhat build a certain world that I have been writing (even had a short story published)....because I like to be able to "go into" that world.

Now, I don't know zilch about cf code, but it seemed easy for me to re-work the whole immunity/resist/vuln/normal flags...

All I did was take every place in the code that SET an immunity/resist/vuln flag...and instead call a short function that I made that uses some simple if statements to check what is on the character now...and which direction the code is wanting to move the resistance....

Then that function returns the correct flag to place (vuln/resist/immunity/double-resist/double-vuln) to the code that called the function, THEN the flag is set.



And for the whote dual-wield thing...(please believe I'm not trying to sound smart or you dumb, just throwing this idea out there)...

A few years ago, I coded that from scratch for my world...and the way I handled it doesn't seem to have the same problems that dual wielding in cf does....

I basically made "dual" a seperate command....and one that anyone can use.


Even mages can hold a weapon in each hand (although that does not mean they can use it effectively).

To effect that I put checks in one_hit and multi_hit and damage to see what class you are, and if you are high enough level to be able to use the offhand wield effectively. Also in the do_dual code I had it check weapon weights and all (and other specifics that don't really apply here) If you are wielding a light weapon and try to wield a heavier...it checks to see if you can wield them in the right order, and if so it puts the weapons in the right order for you.

So, people put things in their offhand with the comman "dual whatever" (also works with "offhand whatever")

In my disarm code, where it strips the weapon I have it also check victim and put the offhand into the wield slot.

As for becoming too weak to wield one of the weapons, I also have similar checks that automatically put the light weapon into the main hand.


I just haven't seen much of the problems with dual-wield that it seems is alluded to every other month or so on these forums.




"Death awaits ya all, wit nasteh big pointeh teeth!"

>Then that function returns the correct flag to place
> vuln/resist/immunity/double-resist/double-vuln) to the code
>that called the function, THEN the flag is set.

We don't want to have vuln/resist/immunity flags any longer. We want a sliding scale of integers, and a way for that to keep some semblance of balance with the way things are now. This is the biggest piece of the problem.

>I basically made "dual" a seperate command....and one that
>anyone can use.

All of the rules CF has for what you can hold in your second hand makes this a royal pain in the ass. If I let you hold whatever the hell you want in there, it becomes mostly trivial (and fairly stupid in my opinion).

> To effect that I put checks in one_hit and multi_hit and
>damage to see what class you are, and if you are high enough
>level to be able to use the offhand wield effectively. Also
>in the do_dual code I had it check weapon weights and all (and
>other specifics that don't really apply here) If you are
>wielding a light weapon and try to wield a heavier...it checks
>to see if you can wield them in the right order, and if so it
>puts the weapons in the right order for you.

So you opt to change the code in the damage, and let the player be as stupid as they like. We opt to allow them only to use what is useful and take the burden on ourselves to code it.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

So you opt to change the code in the damage, and let the player be as stupid as they like. We opt to allow them only to use what is useful and take the burden on ourselves to code it.


That is exactly what I was going for. If a mage wants to hold that pickaxe in his offhand....fine...doesn't mean it will help him in combat.


on the same vein....I have every race able to be any class and any alignment....but....certain spells will turn you evil....so say if you are a good elf necromancer...not only is your xp-pen really harsh for being a necromancer....but you will utterly suck at being a necromancer if you want to stay good...because things like making/controlling undead and cursing will turn you evil....and you will gain an even worse xp-pen. sure you can be an evil duergar paladin.....but because you are evil you won't be able to use most of your powers....and because you are a paladin you will have a ####er of an xp pen.

I personally like the idea of letting players play what they want...even if it is utterly stupid....with systems of punishments and xp-pens in order to somewhat enforce what would be "normal" for races and classes.




"Death awaits ya all, wit nasteh big pointeh teeth!"

Just tell me to shut up if I'm being annoying...


We don't want to have vuln/resist/immunity flags any longer. We want a sliding scale of integers, and a way for that to keep some semblance of balance with the way things are now. This is the biggest piece of the problem.



Couldn't the system of the Vuln_flags be changed into a system much like the 1000 to -1000 alignment system?

in pc_data or something each character would have an integer variable much like alignment....one for each thing you can be vuln/resistant to..... And in the code anywhere where a vuln or resist flag was set...you could instead just incriment or decriment the counter in the pc_data.


On second thought, I'd probably use 100 to -100....to have it fit more smoothly into the % of the current dam reduction system....with 100 being fully immune....say 35 being normally resistant (equating to -35% damage...or whatever it is in cf) 70 for double resist....etc.



"Death awaits ya all, wit nasteh big pointeh teeth!"

They key phrase in bold:

>in pc_data or something each character would have an integer
>variable much like alignment....one for each thing you can be
>vuln/resistant to..... And in the code anywhere where a vuln
>or resist flag was set...you could instead just incriment or
>decriment the counter in the pc_data.

This is why it is a huge undertaking. If it was a small code change it'd be done already.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

And, as Zulg mentioned the balancing of it up above... I'll point out that I think the balancing of a change like that is a thousand times worse than coding it.

Right now I think the way it works is fairly balanced and tactically interesting. I actually *like* that trying to exploit a vuln goes from being a smart move to being a dumb move (rather than simply a neutral one) if the target has compensated for it. It adds an extra layer of tactics.

>>We don't want to have vuln/resist/immunity flags any longer. We want a sliding scale of integers, and a way for that to keep some semblance of balance with the way things are now. This is the biggest piece of the problem.

Back in the days when I had a mud of my own, I did just what you described... It worked well on my mud(rom 2.x derivate), I could send you the code but it's really easy work from what I remember so I guess it's more the eq updating and that stuff that causes problems...

anyways i'm on vacation now but could hook you up when i get back...

fyi it sucks that all the clubs close at 2 in bangkok L(

Let's take a real world example:
- dark skinned person is resist_sunburn
- a fair to medium skinned person is normal_sunburn
- a fair to medium skinned person taking prednisone is vulnerable_sunburn

- Apply a resist_sunburn prep (spf 60) to any of the above, and they become resist_sunburn.

I'm not so sure a resist prep should move vulnerable to normal, but instead go from vulnerable to resist, just like it currently does.

I think the people in this thread need to glance over the Bug and Announcements board a little more. Zulgh's a pro, and he works with a bunch of other pros(*).

It's not that we can't devise a way to make a dual wielding function or imm/vuln/res system that works, it's that we haven't found a good way to preserve the considerable complexity of our current system, as well as keep up with the zillion lines of existing code. It's on our radar, but so is a long list of other improvements with a higher returns-to-effort ratio.

(*) And me, the staff hack!

valguarnera@carrionfields.com