Damnation was stackable. You won't die specifically like that again.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

>> You won't die specifically like that again.

Emphasis on specifically.

If you mean that you can't get damnation to hit con twice, I have no problem with that. If you mean that you can't damn someone more than once, as seems more likely, I have a problem with that. Shamans are not by any means an overpowered class. They do alright, but have very few unique features. One of the few unique things they do have is damnation. Since they can't choose what damnation will affect, it's alot weaker if they can now only do it once. If they get a -mvs damnation or something of the like, that's it, and all they really got was a harder to remove curse, with less useful effect. Being stackable, it had the advantage that a shaman could keep damning, trying to get useful effects.

It seems to me you took a decent chunk out of one of the few unique abilities of a shaman, in order to prevent a small situation that could only happen with the aid of someone else. There are many extremely powerful combinations of things that two players of complimentary classes can do. They shouldn't be the main considerations for whether to take power from one class as a whole.

The complaint seemed to be about the thief + Shaman combo, seems to me that there are a lot of such combo's that give great advantage. I always thought there 'gang' advantes were a reward for RP. It is not always an easy thing to keep a party together for hunting.

Or at least for anyone without some sort of big IRC buddy group.

If you can hold a group of mixed classes together and kick some ass for a short time the power should be yours. That said, nuke the perma's.

On damnation, as pointed out you can hit moves, save vs paralasis or charisma an awful lot trying to lay them out, and it really sucks up the mana. All the while there are the yells and the cabal channels so you never really know when that maran gang or ranger in the trees in going to spoil your kill.

I feel better now, I'm not sure what you changed Zulg but I'm sure it was under good knowledge and consideration.

Deavr

You can replenish mana anywhere as a shaman, without resting or fighting etc, once you realise how. If someone is ko'd, you can damn them with 50% of your commands until they wake. Given the length of some ko's, that's a lot of damnations!

Mana really isn't much of an issue. The yells is, but ultimately no one really knows how to handle poison/traps yet, which means the rescuers can easy end up in a similar situation if they are not careful.

If I read Zulg's post right, he was saying that now you can't damn multiple times. Which means, if you get one of those -chr or such damns... that's it, can't try more. Now, damn still would be useful, but considering its random nature, it becomes far less. This is weakening one of the few unique skills of shamans, to prevent a fairly rare combination of events. Do shamans really deserve the weakening? From what I've seen, they don't seem to be overpowered by any means.

I agree that the weakening of Shamans is uncalled for.
If you get slept by anyone who has a group you really are in deep #### and better be good at getting out of that sort of situation. -con damnation + rot is just one of the many ways that the group might use to attempt to ensure your death. Does not make it overpowered.

If in fact you only get one damn now, what I was saying is that I hope the change was made with great consideration of:
1. Having a sleeper in your group should be a reward for RP and is not an easy thing to do without RP unless you are a cheat.
2. Of all the useless damnations that there are you have to be lucky to get the one you want without using up all your mana. Unless you know some secret that incognito seems to know and has now got me beating my brains out.

If you get all the damns you like but will only get each type once I could probably live with that, exept that you might waste mana only to be told that 'he is already more ugly than usual due to the burden of the damned'.

Seems like the thief+Shaman combo in someones opinion must have fit into the OverPowered definition. One of the criteria I believe was extremely difficult to avoid, as recently discussed on another forum there are a number of ways to avoid death or at least being looted.

I guess I'm just upset I apparently had something overpowered available to my char and never was able to take advantage of it.
Now it seems like it may have been taken away.

Remind me when I delete and I'll tell you what it is.

One damnation per victim, making them ugly as often as anything else. *sigh*

On the assumption that shamans haven't been overpowered for the last few years that they've been how they are, wouldn't being unable to stack damnation seem to be nerfing a skill that wasn't overpowered to begin with? It seemed to me that the whole basis for not being able to choose what stat got lowered was that you could cast it multiple times hoping for an affect.

Similiar to the Rhual/orc guard bug, it would seem to me that this is (albeit not as dramatic) akin to removing summon from necromancers rather than making the orcs unsummonable.

I suggest and hope that this occurs, that perhaps shamans could either choose which malediction they hit (even if on a basic level, such as physical (dex/str), mental (int, wis, svs), charisma (for charisma, since its really not something you'd pick overly often except against bards and maybe conjurers and types of warriors)...or they could still stack it with the caveat that it will not lower constitution. Frankly, other then rot, or landing plague/poison, I can't imagine many reasons why I'd rather reduce con over say svs & dex.

If such was implemented I would greatly appreciate it, despite not having any desire to play a shaman or having played a shaman for nearing 3 years now, simply because I wouldn't feel that the whole class was losing something based on one abused tactic. Please consider .

Just make it so damnation doesn't affect con.

Sleep is supposed to be nasty. If your entire group gets jacked you folks did something wrong.

I do agree that it sucks to get nailed with that old trick but whether it's cheap or overpowered is up for debate. for instance if you are enlarged the thief may miss the jack and get beat up a bit (but then he flees and autohides, but thats a different story)

I like the emotes and stuff that would happen while being maledicted, but the reasoning for the yells is to alert other people near and to either get them wanted, or have someone come to your aid (and we all say "game balance")

Also under your thinking here is that anyone who gears for svs really well, or a warrior that has that raging river legacy I believe will be nearly invulerable to necros/ap's/shamans. Look at Eluna, how many times was she slept/maledicted? I like it, but you have to make sure it won't be underpowering maledicting classes.

The problem with this particular scenario is the damnation. I say make
damnation initiate combat (even on sleeping people). If you think about
it, a normal curse just affects your "soul"...a damnation actually has
a nasty physical affect, plus the cursing benefit. ####, maybe only
make the supp stackable up to two or three times, or not at all. It's
already very powerful, seeing as how it's almost impossible to get rid
of, and is basically a curse on crack.

On another note, is anyone else getting tired of all the "weeney" tactics
that are available? The thief+shaman thing being a big one, nightgaunts
into ####ty areas (or nightgaunts in general) being another. I mean,
they really just seem like ways for people to avoid using any kind of
skill to make a kill...and that's kinda contradictory to the way it
should be, right?

Bizarro I'm helping!

If people didn't use those tactics they wouldn't show the abusability and overpowered exploits wouldn't get changed.

nt

Bizarro I'm helping!

n/t

nt

Here is a solution for you, play a necro. See if you can get to 30 or something, just to get the jist of how hard it can be.. Plus you can learn how to fight them, think an enemies ability is ridiculous, then play and use it from the other side of the spectrum, when your necro with mastered sleep spell still fails more than half the time seemingly and soon as you fail you get bash/tripped/ or just your ass handed to you... then say sleeping is overpowered. As often as the average necromancer/thief gets tooled in fights with fighters, the few times the jack/sleep does land, its like its so much worth it being able to land all those abilities, but yeah, necros have it hard enough, plus they just tweaked sleep so its even worse.

Early bird gets the worm, Second mouse gets the cheese!