Seriously dude.. stop typing, mudding, and what ever else you do that gets you this worked up over a game. Go get drunk, and then take a step back and remove the soiled tampon and wash out the gash. Come back revitalized and perhaps a tad bit less bitter. This change is huge for the old school pk dynamic that people constantly complain about. You live or die by your abilities and not your ability to gather #### that gives you an edge. I see a lot more deaths in everyone future.. go deathfulness

much love
acidic parv

nt

I started to read all the posts but the bitching and moaning got annoying, so I'm just going to ask my questions. Sorry for repeats, I'm high.

1) Does the fact the warriors are now more even all across the board have anything to do with the balancing factor of the ever wavering magic rift thing?

2) Can the magic tilt ever get so bad that over 75% of your potions and staves and spells wont work (number crunch warning, but I'm damn curious)

3) The Scions get the Scepter, The Ragers get the new magic thing, The Nexus get their balance thing. Does the balance also tilt from light to dark as far as power? Does it work for wilderness and civilization?

4) I like the changes. They level out the field a little bit and add a bit of dynamic RP into the mix. Thera is really become it's own little contained world and I think just because you're evening out the PK to RP ratio a lot of the powergamers are getting pissed instead of enjoying what's becomming an even better MUD. But maybe I'm just high.

*Keep it 100*

Well I don't care if you remove haste or no I still will own most of classes just because of other preps/elite eq I know. Though new dynamic can be interesting. One thing I wonder.. you imms were repeating over and over again that preps and ragers are balanced, now you change balance and as leader of few programming projects I almost always agains changes in system that works perfect except if it is cosmetic change or adding new perfomace functions.

P.S. I don't see point of discussing Imm's changes just because they already thought about their own changes and only that can force them to change it is time and watching how new dynamic works(call it testing or something.) And only in time we will be able to gather some statistic to make well founded posts if change is bad/good.

>as leader of few programming projects I almost always agains
>changes in system that works perfect except if it is cosmetic
>change or adding new perfomace functions.

Generally I would agree with that sentiment, but you have to admit CF is a little bit of a different thing. A banking system that hasn't had a code change in 20 years and is totally rock solid is a good thing; CF that way I don't think would be a good thing.

(Sure, there are games that have been largely unchanged for hundreds of years... but I'd argue they're also not quite the same situation.)

And in situation when number of players are lower and lower new changes can always bring new players and/or let new to stay longer as for elite players.. Even if they leave after changes there are always just about 5-7% who you can call elite, while newbies is at least 20-30%. Also elite players have less will/time to play CF while new blood has more.

nt

Edit: Subject tweaked. Please don't flame back, even if it's bait.

This is a good change, this is about making cf less of a chore.

If I play a warrior at higher levels I would need haste to become competetive. Not to give me an extra edge, no to become competetive if I want to run solo. It was a must. Finding them was not an issue, coral head, sirine island(yes still), htos, past, whistlewood etc etc but ALWAYS getting that ####ing potion directly after I quaffed it to avoid someone else getting is a damn chore that makes the game less fun.

After this has balanced out I'm sure cf will be more fun. For people who like to prep down others, sure it might be less fun. But that system is just a variant for cash for perks, just with time instead and it sucks.

I deleted some of the posts, and given the eight billion warnings, you're taking a breather from our forums for a day or two.

We're OK with discussion, and we'll happily continue playing pro/con with the other participants, but given your behavior here and in game (with two immortals, neither of whom are in this thread yet), you need to cool down.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

So it's perhaps too early to joy.

These changes limit fighter-types preparation, but it looks like mages will stay as powerful as before ( except some healing related issues ).

Does that mean that my barrier'd fire AP will be rampaging? ( poor poor ragers, fighters and previoulsy-perma-hasted paladins )

nt

After all, healing issue is just an inconvenience. Barrier doesn't last too long, you can heal later if you wish.
Not the thing I would trade for haste on a fighter.

Does that mean that my barrier'd fire AP will be rampaging? ( poor poor ragers, fighters and previoulsy-perma-hasted paladins )

Guess what ability the major offensive boost to Bloodlust shares code with?

Also, the inability to recover HP as quickly as you used to will definitely impact barrier'd fire AP. I'm surprised you're underestimating that.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>Guess what ability the major offensive boost to
>Bloodlust shares code with?

I wonder if haste shares offensive boost to iceballs.

>Also, the inability to recover HP as quickly as you used to
>will definitely impact barrier'd fire AP. I'm surprised
>you're underestimating that.

I definitely know that low hp regen for a barrier'd AP for 10 or so ticks is not a big deal.
I don't need hp regen when my opponent dies before my health is dropped below 50%.
Also, am I right when I assume that bloodlust or berserk healing is tweaked as well?

Anyway, back to the point.
My original questions wasn't about weakened AP bloodlust. It was more general.
You "greatly" weaken an offensive/defensive potencial of fighters classes yet mages only suffer some healing inconvenience.
Does that mean that mages vs fighters balance was skewed towards fighters before the change and now it will be ok?
Or does that mean that balance was fine and now it will be skewed towards mages?

I wonder if haste shares offensive boost to iceballs.

You lost me there.

Also, am I right when I assume that bloodlust or berserk healing is tweaked as well?

Should be all healing, but I can't check from here. Daevryn would know.

You "greatly" weaken an offensive/defensive potencial of fighters classes yet mages only suffer some healing inconvenience.

I don't characterize the healing change as an inconvenience. You're right that it matters less in a fight where you're already going to dominate the other guy, but those aren't the fights where you worry about the changes so much. It does create an opportunity for a foe or foes to make you abandon an attack where you otherwise might be able to press on after a quick duck-out.

I agree with Twist when he says that the type of people most worried about the change are the type of people who can most easily stay on top regardless.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I didn't plan to play a warrior with haste in the near future.
So it is more likely I will be even more on top now with a barrierd mage because I don't really see how healing drawbacks can be compared with losing haste.

I agree with you and Twist when you say that "the type of people most worried about the change are the type of people who can most easily stay on top regardless."
But for a different reason.
People who can easily stay on top usually have a very good clue about the game balance, so they may notice potencial problems and worry about the change if it is going to shift it.

Haste on a warrior changes the fight drastically while healing inconvenince is very situational and in the majority of fights is not an issue at all.

How does haste help against a barriered mage? Think it over. I can wait. Mage doesn't defend well anyway. Enhanced reactions takes care of the rest of the "doesn't defend well anyway."

Haste on a warrior changes the fight drastically when fighting other melee classes. Vs non melee classes, it really has almost no effect.

The extra hits from (old) haste will still boost your damage a fair bit. More than an extra pair of wide coppers, anyway. Even with enhanced reactions. Especially if the mage himself is hasted, which it has pretty easy access to.

Also, helps in defense against conjurer pets, necro army, shawtabbies and whatever cabal pets they have. It's effect vs. mages was very far from marginal, indeed.

Edit: Just to back me up with some numbers:
http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?41517
Conjie wielding axe vs. axe spec warrior (took a goodie conjie because they'll give long fights):
conjie parried 47 attacks
shield blocked 21 attacks
was hit by 46 attacks

that's about 40% of the total attacks landing. haste would've done wonders to his tanking and damage output.. maybe even won him the fight with some better tactics.

sure its anecdotal and there are uncertainties and whatnot. but still a non-slowed mage wielding the best weapon type will avoid a significant percentage of the attacks. unless they're fighting a lion, of course.

nt

As evidenced by the fact that we added more stuff of this sort recently, no.

Also Google: "slippery slope logical fallacy".

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I like the route this change is going. For those of you who complain that you don't have all your little preps and you can't fight like you used to... exactly how was it you used to fight? Roll up a powercombo, get preps, and just decimate your range talking #### the whole time? This seems like it will actually make players with TRUE tactics shine all the more while at the same time knocking you powergamers down a bit until you learn how to actually fight with tactics yourselves.

I am curious though how much this will affect A/B/S and how strong a fully a/b/s'd invoker can truly become now....

I am curious though how much this will affect A/B/S and how strong a fully a/b/s'd invoker can truly become now....

Haste didnt really help the warriors when facing an invoker. It mostly benefited the people (non-mages) that spent time gathering in fights agaisnt lazy people that dont play often.

Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.

I can say I'm honestly torn about what just happened. I suppose that in time we'll see one way or the other if this was a good thing, but anyway.

On one side, part of me likes this idea. Less time running around gathering preps means more time i can be doing fun stuff. I'm pretty sure that for 90% of the playerbase, nobody is getting overly excited at the idea of 'time to get preps!' But for those of us who are SMART, we do it anyway. Prepping is a part of the game, always has been, always should be. Although I've played too many damn warriors and am going to stop that trend, haste was something i was always concerned about. For one it allows me to destroy in melee, which is already my strong suit. On the other hand I used it for a survival tool, so that when my duegar sees a bash spammning giant come at me, hes got another thing comin. Or hell, when I felt like taking on a group ranking because fighting 3 people is hard. Either way, there is potential to have this be an excellent change. Neps words are a bit vague on how much is actually changed, so like I said, we'll see.

Here's the part where you get to my other side. The side that saw the post and said YOU HAVE GOT TO BE ####ING KIDDING ME. Until late, i've been a warrior whore. Haste was a staple. You just took away something that I loved. Ok, I can deal with this. Unlike some of the playerbase, I don't explode or act childish when I get my way. So then as cooler heads prevail, I sat down and thought of the implications of this.
Deathblow and resistance slightly less good, as well as haste across the board. Does that include thirst? Dear god help anyone who wants the challenge of taking on a rager solo. It seems that zerkers especially are only meant to be ganged now. Ok ok, someone brought up the point with proper preps and gear, you can take a rager solo anyway. Yeah, but at what level, 51? Maybe, but zerkers get their beefy thirst at 35. All it takes is a bash bash bash fire giant, no names mentioned, to call thirst mid fight, and go back to bashing. How is my 35 scion warriors supposed to prove himself on retrieving the scepter when he looks like a retard who can't parry. So that could be one problem.
Two, classes with born in haste now just got a greater edge. A friend of mine just got a tiger form. Not only does that form lack much skill against classes that cant recall in combat, but he was complaining how, when hasted, warriors were out tanking him. Oh dear, the skill-less form might have to compete with his a/b/s, and even then, heaven forbid the warrior has a haste prep just so he can take on that tiger. Seems a bit crazy that now warriors won't be able to use haste, so shifters and the like can melt your face harder.
Furthermore, think of the implications towards raiding. I love haste on almost any class when I go to raid. Now that isn't an option. So how am I to compensate? Ill bring joe, danny, sue and john. My overwhelming numbers will make up for the fact I can't prepare myself well enough for this fight. Um, I don't know about you, but when more than 3 people come to raid, I get pissed. It becomes a giant cluster #### of no skill, and that isn't what pk should be about. It should be about two or 3 people raiding on one or two people, with the ability to make it interesting.
Lastly, fine, you wanna take away my warriors haste? Then take away mage B. Barrier. As good as sanc, but in wand form. There aint no way in hell, as a warrior, I can take an a/b/sed mage. Any class. Just think of it. Conjies and necros pets will destroy me before I even whittle away at their health. Invokers I need to incredibly out melee so that they dont destroy my face with their spells. Lag em? Maybe, but only if they have the wrong shield up, and my second spec lags too. Hell thats for warriors only anyway, what about thieves, assassins, orcs, people who rely basically on trip and bash. If you're so interested in making pk less prepwhore and more skill based, then destroy the ultimate in prepwhore. Barrier. Or for the love of god nerf it. You almost just handed the game to mages on a silver plater.

I know my criticisms were more lengty than my liking it, but such is the way of my thought. I honestly have no right to judge, as much of these other people should realize, until I've tried out these changes. However, I would like to get my initial thoughts out there, just so you can possibly understand how I'm taking this. Either way, thank you Immortals for a great game.

Undead_Irish

Those one vs. three fights.

And you bring up another point that I hate about the Immortal staff here. How vague they are. It's really annoying, as I tend to usually be a well informed person. I can't be well informed when the source refuses to explain, in detail.

Have you ever fought prepped warriors/villagers with an ABS protected mage?

It makes you able to actually fight. Dominate? Sheesh. I wish it actually did make you dominate. Your friend with the tiger has the most logical observation....

Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.

Okay, so you've officially made haste as difficult to get as barrier. How lame. I play this game purely for PK. I'm sure there's a lot more players who are in the same boat that I am than you freaking think. I see this change as severely neutering PK. What good does this really do?

>Okay, so you've officially made haste as difficult to get as
>barrier. How lame. I play this game purely for PK. I'm sure
>there's a lot more players who are in the same boat that I am
>than you freaking think. I see this change as severely
>neutering PK. What good does this really do?

Seriously. How does this neuter pk in general? It might neuter your ability to dominate newbs who never knew haste, but if anything this change encourages PK. You elites are still on even terms with each other, but now instead of spending the time to get haste you can be fighting instead.

SM, you make some good argument points in the thread below. What they almost all come down to is you arguing that yes, you and players like you are hurt by this change.

Sorry about that. It's not the first time changes have been made that hurt the more experienced players. It's not the last time either.

The bottom line is that because you (and Lightmage, etc etc) ARE experienced players, I know you'll find a way to deal. In fact, after a while you'll probably end up being more kickass than you currently are (be it because you play a ranger who knows where to get the more rare haste staves, or a thief with scrolls, etc. or just because you are able to roll with the punches more).

I'd like to bring up a very old-school example if I may. We used to have this wonderful thing called a "purple potion" that one could get from killing hobgoblins in moria (stock ROM area). Purple potions would give you a 1-2 hour sanc.

When we took out every single item in the game that could grant sanc, and replaced them with ABS and made those nolocate etc. etc. there was a HUGE amount of bitching. Mostly, ironically, from elite Master/Shadow players who played a lot of mages. Of course, back then all of the bitching was via notes to all on CF itself.

"What's your effin' point, Twist?"

My point is that the change ended up being a good one for everyone involved. Right now today the first day of no-haste-preps, this change probably feels aimed at you. Again, sorry if you feel that way. But believe me, if we honestly felt that making this change would totally wreck CF for you and folks like you, we wouldn't have made it.

It's about players like me constantly having the advantages they worked hard for removed. You're right I liked having advantages from preps that took me a week IRL to find/obtain. My issue here is the direction I feel CF is heading.

I realize you guys aren't gonna be like "Oh crap, SM just said this was a bad idea, and he might be right, lets change it". What I would like is for you guys to say "Hey we realized we changed some stuff that will hurt players like you, so in return you players now get XXXXXXX".

I don't know. I'd be lying if I said I liked the way the MUD is going from a gameplay standpoint. I love how the imms are more open to discussion, I love how the immteraction/quests are more frequent, and from those angles, I love where CF is going. But as a lonerish player who finds his advantages by exploring/preparing, I have to feel like I am being told "Thats the wrong way to play". And I just don't agree with that sentiment.

Believe me, the discussion about this change did take into account that people who use these particular preps would be hurt by it. That was weighed and counterweighed and this is how it panned out.

I'm going to reiterate that I just don't think you are going to be as hurt by this as you think. Short-run maybe. Long-run, again, I'm betting you'll adapt faster than others.

"Thats the wrong way to play"

You aren't being told that. If you read things and were capable of understanding them in a context outside your own personal slanted viewpoint, you would realize that.

What you are being told is that it is a play style that detracts so much from everyone else's ability to have fun, that it must go. Your play style helps you, but does so less than it hurts the overall fun of the game for everyone else. In order to compete with you, they must prep like you. That involves everyone spending as much time as you gathering preps and exploring. If everyone is doing that, good luck finding a fight, because they'll all be too busy gathering from the last fight, and exploring to find new preps to gain an edge over everyone else, that no one will be fighting. No one will be interacting. They will just be exploring and gathering preps.

Seriously, much like the magic change, you fly off the handle without even trying to adapt or explore the changes. I've got money that says Lightmage will turn this change to his advantage in many interesting and thoughtful ways. Will you be able to do the same, or will you just continue to bitch and decide that CF is no longer for you because you don't get to win X number of fights be default by virtue of spending hours gathering preps?

"Seriously, much like the magic change, you fly off the handle without even trying to adapt or explore the changes."

Except I still dislike it now that I've seen it in action. Guess I know myself pretty well eh?

"I've got money that says Lightmage will turn this change to his advantage in many interesting and thoughtful ways. "

So? So he wants to spend the time changing his ways. Some of us may think it's easier just to fire up an old copy of Dragon Warrior instead.

"Will you be able to do the same, or will you just continue to bitch and decide that CF is no longer for you because you don't get to win X number of fights be default by virtue of spending hours gathering preps?"

So becuase it takes time getting, it shouldn't give advantages? I got news for you, so does gear. I think even you would agree that the player with uber gear is going to win X number of fights by virtue of spending hours gathering gear. Whats the difference between this and preps?

from that one place that ANYONE could get, to include a level 11 fire giant axe wielder who was destroying newbies around Galadon all day long and just going and getting his beloved potion over and over.

Other than that, most haste sources are fairly difficult to come by, and there is a measure of risk involved. Why take that away? Previously, it was possible for EVERYONE in CF to have haste. It's your fault if you didn't know that.

You're failing to recognize that there also exist CF players who *could* get those things but didn't want that to be how they spent their playing time.

And just to be anal, a level 11 fire giant is a sucky choice for destroying anything but your self confidence.

And I think it's about time to retire CF. I personally don't like the direction it's going either.

What I see: Everything becoming standardized. Like communism.

I think a lot more people play for PK than they do roleplay. Roleplay is a bonus to PK, and not the other way around. The game is becoming more focused on the ideals of a few Immortals--and not a game that the players want, anymore.

"The game is becoming more focused on the ideals of a few Immortals--and not a game that the players want, anymore."

I agree with this, to a degree, and I can even understand it, to a degree. My only issue is that something of the magnitude of the last few changes, maybe it would have been a good idea to get some non-imm-feedback before going through with them is all.

Kind of like a focus group to test the new product.

I just don't want CF to become 'New' Coke.

>I think a lot more people play for PK than they do roleplay.

People PKed before haste potions, and they presumably still will.

>Roleplay is a bonus to PK, and not the other way around. The
>game is becoming more focused on the ideals of a few
>Immortals--and not a game that the players want, anymore.

1) I think you're kidding yourself if you don't think a ton of players wanted to spend less time fetching preps.

2) What do/did you like about CF? Whose ideas were they? Are those probably the same people behind this? Right.

>exploring/preparing, I have to feel like I am being told
>"Thats the wrong way to play". And I just don't agree with
>that sentiment.

I don't think it's so much that it's the wrong way to play, it's that they recognize that for most people it's not a very fun way to play. For you the results are worth the hassle. For me, they're not. It's not about laziness exactly. It's that all things considered I'd rather die twice and win once, than spend two hours prepping and then win three times.

What this change recognizes is that the game is supposed to be fun. Almost everybody finds combat fun and, almost nobody finds prep gathering fun. So they've taken away some of the incentive to do what isn't fun. I understand that this reduces your fun because you've put such a high value on being able to win in every scenerio.

That said, there's still going to be a differential in power between those that don't prep and those that do. There are lots of preps besides haste, and the damage reduction still works fine, it's just you can't as easily convert unlimited wealth into victory.

I think this is an awesome change.

The only thing I don't like about it is that seems to benefit brute force characters over finesse characters. Haste was a skill-oriented melee character's best answer to bash+huge damage. At first glance this change does appear to give bash-specs a leg up. Then again, I think a lot of people (myself included) are overestimating how often haste was in play.

The other question is how this will affect ragers. The argument has always been that if you want to fight a rager you need haste to counter deathblow. Since it's been toned down though, hopefully it'll be possible to fight ragers with just dr preps. But then the question is how they can kill ABS mages, who always did rely on abs more than haste. Does this benefit also favor mages?

The other question is how this will affect ragers. The argument has always been that if you want to fight a rager you need haste to counter deathblow. Since it's been toned down though, hopefully it'll be possible to fight ragers with just dr preps. But then the question is how they can kill ABS mages, who always did rely on abs more than haste. Does this benefit also favor mages?

To further clarify, one of the great strengths of Bloodthirst is that it uses a variant of the Haste code. Resistance also came down a peg, which is often the only damage reduction a Rager can bring to the table, period.

On the flip side, keep in mind that the A/B/S'd mage has lost a lot of their recuperative abilities. That was always really tough for a Rager/mage fight-- they clash, wear each other down quite a bit, then the mage steps away and chomps some pills or uses a healer, and is back at full strength way before the Rager could be. The Defender skillset helps the Rager a bit there, but that's limited in scope.

On paper, seems like a wash to me. We'll see how it plays out.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I wouldn't say it helps a bit there. I would say that the Defender skillset pretty much matches or exceeds a non-rager's ability to heal if they have stun or choke (hint: they pretty much all do). In a situation where they need to keep moving to keep healing, sure it will be evened out, but defenders with stun or choke will be IMHO much more powerful than they are currently, which isn't too shabby in my experience.

Are you playing this game to have fun, or are you playing it to try and impress people? Because if its the latter, I hope you eventually realize that even if you do kill a group of three all by yourself, it Doesn't Matter in the real world and won't impress anyone other than perhaps 25 people for the few minutes they read the log.

From the sounds of your posts, you would complain if they made a change that was a benefit to everyone except for you. It sounds like you're only interested in "winning" this game, which is just ridiculous. If you can't enjoy the fact that you may lose an one-on-one fight, you should quit.

If you can't look back on the time you spent exploring/prepping and the fights you previously had with those preps and think that the time you spent getting that knowledge/skill was worth it from the fun you had, you should quit.

Once a week there are posts whining about how much time it takes to play CF and that it is driving people away. The Imms take steps to address this and you write a series of posts that if I hadn't read other threads of yours, I would think were farcical in nature.

Changes are going to keep happening in CF, and some of them will hurt you. If you can't manage to have fun without having a ridiculous advantage over other people you need to adapt. Not your playing style, but your attitude. It's obvious from the passion you put into all of your posts that you're too addicted to "take your ball and go home," so I hope you can learn to stop trying to impress people and just play the game to have fun.

I don't tell you to quit because I don't agree with your opinion of fun. Why do you feel it is valid for you to say this?

It can come down to superior gear knowledge. Those obscure Cadruish items will be even more sought after. Strange bracers will become a goldmine..

The guy that puts in the time should still come out on top in only that he will be decked out more than the weekend warrior.

I think the Imms shouldnt have made this announcement....just sneakily remove things they dont want and have us poor bastards revist the spots over and over until we slit our wrists in frustration. Would have given them something to chuckle over.

Seriously though....best advice is give it some time and see.

You shoulda seen the BITCH fest when barrier and stuff was introduced as limited.

Now that was some serious crying. Myself included.

Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.

Because I make sure I'm enjoying the game, no matter what happens to me when I'm playing. You could tell me to quit, but it wouldn't make any sense, because games are meant to be enjoyed.

It sure doesn't sound like you are enjoying the game. I feel its valid for me to suggest you quit if you aren't because it's 1) painful to read through your big drama fest everytime something occurs that you don't think you'll like and 2) because I don't have any interest in seeing people spend so much of their time doing things that seem to cause them so much pain and suffering.

Having the hobgoblin running around killing PC's to get
them back was just hilarious.

- Runaktla

Let's face it, you, Rooqweaz, and a handful of others are without a doubt hurt by this change. At least that fact isn't being sugar-coated.

Regardless of what I think about you as a forum poster, it will be unfortunate if this means you leave for CF for good.

I complain a lot but I do hope people can see past my methods to know it is an attempt to be constructive.

I can't say if I will quit CF for good, but I am 100% certain my desire to play has gone right into the crapper. There have been too many changes lately that negatively affect players like me for me to be all gung-ho over logging in.

If the staff really wanted to make CF more fun and easier from a time-standpoint, they could make ranking easier, not nerf haste and DR/healing.

I complain a lot but I do hope people can see past my methods to know it is an attempt to be constructive.

I don't see it that way, and I don't get the sense a lot of people do, reading the reactions to your posts here and elsewhere. How is flaming people constructive? How is accusing Nepenthe of somehow arranging the ranger revamp and this change around what characters he plays constructive? How are all your baseless Battlefield accusations of cheating constructive?

See, here is where, when you've been put in the Realm of the Dead previously, you play the "But I also have useful moments!" card. That assumes that we're going to laud players who are jackasses some of the time and normal some of the time. However, the vast majority of our forum users and players never get a character denied, a thread locked/removed, etc., so we're not going to do that.

Why should we have to "see past your methods" in order to see that you're constructive? Why can't you just be constructive?

I think you post to advocate your own style of play at the expense of anyone else's, period. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but when you try to cloak yourself as the voice of the people, it rings hollow.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

"I don't see it that way, and I don't get the sense a lot of people do, reading the reactions to your posts here and elsewhere. "

If I complain about something I say why. You may not realize it but at least I give you honest feedback.

"is accusing Nepenthe of somehow arranging the ranger revamp and this change around what characters he plays constructive?"

I accused Nepenthe of nothing but good timing on the part of when to play Cabdru. Do you want to say it wasn't just in the nick of time? Before 5 changes that would have changed his power levels significantly?

"How are all your baseless Battlefield accusations of cheating constructive?"

You've got a lot of nerve, considering the evidence I've given you. Want me to air it here? I can and will, if you want.

"See, here is where, when you've been put in the Realm of the Dead previously, you play the "But I also have useful moments!" card."

I've been to the RoTD twice for punishments. Once to be banned from the forums, and once for using ghetto slang RP with a char. What does that have to do with this argument?

"Why should we have to "see past your methods" in order to see that you're constructive? Why can't you just be constructive?"

I've tried that. Three years of it being insinuated that I am an idiot and my ideas stupid, only to see said ideas implemented years down the road will do wonders to discourage using the same methods again.

"I think you post to advocate your own style of play at the expense of anyone else's, period. "

I agree with that, actually. Why is this? Because I can only speak for myself.

"There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but when you try to cloak yourself as the voice of the people, it rings hollow."

Where do I claim this? How can you say my posts are both self-centered and claim to speak for the people at the same time? The only things I've tried to do are offer insights some people may not have thought of or considered.

You don't want dissenting opinions or criticism in terms of CF, and that's fine. Do everyone a favor and let us know that from the get-go, so we can stop getting all pissed off over something we have no possible chance to change.

>You don't want dissenting opinions or criticism in terms of
>CF, and that's fine. Do everyone a favor and let us know that
>from the get-go, so we can stop getting all pissed off over
>something we have no possible chance to change.

The problem is that you're disregarding the opinions of criticisms of all the players who don't disagree with you. I haven't been. You're not exactly the voice of the people on this one.

I figured you were going to hate this. There's not much more to say about that.

But then, thats never been a CF strong suit.

Now you dont have to worry about gathering haste preps cause your enemies wont have it. (Empire might hurt because of this since they dont typically have pocket trannies in the cabal. Or if you are fighting villagers that call blood thirst alot. Or fighting Outlander rangers that use staves.) For the uncabaled warriors, Heralds, and stuff...they will be pretty much on par with you now.

It might make for more people to join cabals for those perk powers they offer. Might be unbalanced in the overall game dynamics since certain cabals seem to always have transmuters..ie)fortress.

Im more worried about the healing changes.

Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.

Is that players like myself who consistently try and fight bad odds are going to get screwed. What you will see is even less people willing to defend when its a 3v1.

In the end, I just don't like the game CF is becoming, for a variety of reasons. I certainly don't like all the effort I put in finding preps etc. so I could have an advantage, just one day thrown out the window because the staff wants the lazier players to have an even stance.

How is screwing the hard workers to please the lazy ones good policy you may ask? When the lazy ones outnumber the hard workers by 10 to 1 would be your answer.

It's about making things more level across the board for all players. Your question of "Why shouldn't I have a leg up over lazy players" isn't what you really mean. What you REALLY mean is "Why shouldn't I have a leg up over players who haven't spent years learning all the prep locations"?

You want to go on about how unfair it is for you to not have access to this "edge" you use. But how is you having this advantage over someone who hasn't spent years hunting down preps fair to them?

Most vet players know at least some preps. The newer players are the ones who would have been more likely to be tooled by, per your example, a lone defender when they have three people. Now if you want to do that you have to do it with tactics, not just years spent hunting down preps.

Frankly, I think this is a fantastic change. It makes it harder for people to just steamroll over newer players, which means we may start keeping more of those newer players. They won't delete in frustration at doing everything right, and still losing to some guy who quaffed something that they had no way to even know existed.

The protections are still out there. They just have more drawbacks now. I think this is a great change.

"It's about making things more level across the board for all players."

This is true. I agree.

"Your analogy of "Why shouldn't I have a leg up over lazy players" isn't what you really mean. What you REALLY mean is "Why shouldn't I have a leg up over players who haven't spent years learning all the prep locations"? "

Thats exactly right. Why shouldn't I? The advantages were there for anyone to use, only some of us chose to.

"You want to go on about how unfair it is for you to not have access to this "edge" you use. But how is you having this advantage over someone who hasn't spent years hunting down preps fair to them?"

It is fair to them because they chose not to use the tools available (and this is the key part here) to anyone willing to find/use them.

"The newer players are the ones who would have been more likely to be tooled by, per your example, a lone defender when they have three people. Now if you want to do that you have to do it with tactics, not just years spent hunting down preps. "

No if you want to do that now, you have to have luck. All the tactics in the world aren't stopping a 3v1 when the three have a healer + transmuter + warrior. In the past, with preps, you had a chance to do this. Limiting the effectiveness of these preps only insures when the cabal wars are one-sided, it will be even moreso.

"Frankly, I think this is a fantastic change."

Of course you do, you never prepped for #### and died repeatedly because of it. Now you have a chance to conquer even while being lazy. Thats great to you, and dumb as #### to me. It isn't the first thing we've disagreed on.

"It makes it harder for people to just steamroll over newer players, which means we may start keeping more of those newer players."

Let's not pretend you like this change for 'newer' players. You like this change because you don't prep, and you just gained a huge bonus to your chances against people who did. Newer players will still get steamrolled over. I don't need haste to bash down another warrior in Galadon cityguard armor when I have a full suit of hero gear at 21.

"They won't delete in frustration at doing everything right, and still losing to some guy who quaffed something that they had no way to even know existed. "

Except offensive stuff they've never seen still exists. Preps weren't the thing doing in noobs, it was the fact they didn't know how to run from Aldevari to a healer when near death, or the fact they had a 12 damroll on their fire giant warrior at 38th level.

"The protections are still out there. They just have more drawbacks now. I think this is a great change."

Right because you aren't a prepper. From my perspective however this change is..probably the end of my CF days.

You'd see endless pages of posts on the casual vs. hardcore player debate. It isn't an easy thing to balance giving the hardcore benefits the right level of advantage and stay attractive to the casual players.

>"It's about making things more level across the board for all
>players."
>
>This is true. I agree.

Well then if things are more level across the board, why bitch? THings are more fair now. Why not just say "Yay for balance" and leave it be?

>"Your analogy of "Why shouldn't I have a leg up over lazy
>players" isn't what you really mean. What you REALLY mean is
>"Why shouldn't I have a leg up over players who haven't spent
>years learning all the prep locations"? "
>
>Thats exactly right. Why shouldn't I? The advantages were
>there for anyone to use, only some of us chose to.

Because the game is called Carrion Fields, not Prep-Whore Fields. The preps may be there for anyone to use, but this creates a HUGE gulf between vet intense players and casual players. That gulf will still exist, but not be as difficult for the newer or casual players to overcome.

>It is fair to them because they chose not to use the tools
>available (and this is the key part here) to anyone willing to
>find/use them.

Thats not true. Most of the muds players now don't have as many years playing as you do. It's not about willing to find/use preps, it's about you losing your edge over the newer players. NOw you'll just have to use tactics instead.

>No if you want to do that now, you have to have luck. All the
>tactics in the world aren't stopping a 3v1 when the three have
>a healer + transmuter + warrior. In the past, with preps, you
>had a chance to do this. Limiting the effectiveness of these
>preps only insures when the cabal wars are one-sided, it will
>be even moreso.

I just don't agree with this.

>Of course you do, you never prepped for #### and died
>repeatedly because of it. Now you have a chance to conquer
>even while being lazy. Thats great to you, and dumb as #### to
>me. It isn't the first thing we've disagreed on.

I wouldn't say I died repeatedly because of it, but no I never took survival to the extreme you do. I honestly can't be bothered to spend hours gathering preps for 5 minutes of fighting. Thats just not fun.

>Let's not pretend you like this change for 'newer' players.
>You like this change because you don't prep, and you just
>gained a huge bonus to your chances against people who did.
>Newer players will still get steamrolled over. I don't need
>haste to bash down another warrior in Galadon cityguard armor
>when I have a full suit of hero gear at 21.

I've never cared about huge advantages. I like this change because I think it's good for the mud overall. I'm not afraid to get in and mix it up in a PK, and never have been. I don't care about dying nearly as much as you do, and I'm not looking at how this change will affect me. Frankly it won't affect me one way or the other, but it is a change thats great for the mud as a whole.

>Except offensive stuff they've never seen still exists. Preps
>weren't the thing doing in noobs, it was the fact they didn't
>know how to run from Aldevari to a healer when near death, or
>the fact they had a 12 damroll on their fire giant warrior at
>38th level.

It's not killing the noobs thats the problem, its the frustration they feel when put up against someone they think they have zero chance of beating. This will still happen, but not be nearly so common.

>
>"The protections are still out there. They just have more
>drawbacks now. I think this is a great change."
>
>Right because you aren't a prepper. From my perspective
>however this change is..probably the end of my CF days.

I prep, but my prepping is minimal. I just can't be bothered to spend hours of time checking obscure containers and mobs looking for some preps. I would rather spend my time enjoying the game and interacting with other people. If the addition of drawbacks to preps is making you leave, maybe you need to look at why you play this game.

"I just can't be bothered to spend hours of time checking obscure containers and mobs looking for some preps."

So why punish me for what you can't be bothered to do?


"If the addition of drawbacks to preps is making you leave, maybe you need to look at why you play this game."

Changing an entire idea, that has been a critical part of the mud, and is also one of the strengths of my playstyle isn't something that endears CF to me.

Imagine if all of a sudden the imms said CF was perma-death now. Would players like you who rack up tons of deaths take issue with it?

>"I just can't be bothered to spend hours of time checking
>obscure containers and mobs looking for some preps."
>
>So why punish me for what you can't be bothered to do?

You're not being punished. I fail to see how making things more even across the board is punishing you.

>"If the addition of drawbacks to preps is making you leave,
>maybe you need to look at why you play this game."
>
>Changing an entire idea, that has been a critical part of the
>mud, and is also one of the strengths of my playstyle isn't
>something that endears CF to me.

Uhh, what crack are you smoking? There haven't always been ABS style preps in CF. The mud flourished (our numbers were unarguably higher in those days) before anyone ever even thought about ABS. It hasn't always been a critical part of the mud. Hell, to me preps are still "that new thing the 'cool' kids spend their time on". Thats why I've never relied on them, and for the most part can't be bothered with them. I "grew up" so to speak in a near-prepless age. Sure we had our purple poitions, but they were 2 ticks long and everyone had them. I realize this may fall on deaf ears, but seriously man preps aren't vital to the enjoyment of CF.

>
>Imagine if all of a sudden the imms said CF was perma-death
>now. Would players like you who rack up tons of deaths take
>issue with it?

I'd be iffy about it at first, but likely not do too much bitching. I'd just have to start playing more careful and less balls out. I COULD adjust my playing style, it wouldn't be the end of my little world though. Thats the difference between us. I have seen changes come and changes go on CF. I've stuck it out through even the really bad patches and kept on playing and kept on trying to contribute to the mud as a whole. You on the other hand are saying that without preps the game isn't worth playing to you.

A little advice, take from it what you want. Be less anal about "winning" the game, and you might have more fun with it.

Although I'm not a big fan of the vitriol spewed (by many parties) on these forums. I used to be guilty of it and perhaps I will be in the future. Hopefully not.

However, boiling down the constructive points here:
1. Preps have not always been as necessary as they currently are.
- This is a good point that I tried to make above. There have been several changes to "secret" things along the way. One that stands out is making area-attack mobs in general not hit other mobs. This used to be a great way for "elite" players to get eq that was really far beyond them. Attack Zeus, flee, run to Ra, wait for Zeus to breath attack, wait for Ra to kick his ass. Repeat with Hera, etc. Eventually Ra would die too, and you could get that sweetass +5+5 avg 29 Sword of the Sun.

2. Not complaining right out of the chute is a Good Thing (tm).
- There are several reasons to try something for a while before complaining (and I don't mean a quick "I think this is going to be bad." style post - I mean carrying on and on and on and threatening to quit playing). The biggie, for me, is that if you were to come and post a well-thought-out article about how, in the past 2 months, the change to the haste preparations has severely limited your fun, it gives you a lot more of a leg to stand on.

One other point I want to make - comparing removing haste preps from non-magical-item-users to changing CF to being perma-death is a bit drastic, don't you think? Haste makes you dodge/parry better and have a chance for 1-2 extra attacks per round. Not having it will not suddenly make you unable to pk. Having watched your chars a fair bit, SM, I can assure you of this.

Should just all whip it out and get the yardstick out. Arguing with any one of us is pointless, because we are always convinced we are right.

Coincidence? I think not.

But in all seriousness, I think you take the whole prepping thing way too seriously. Not every character should have access to some way to counter/make up for not having every skill/spell/ability/helper in the game. Magic is supposed to be special and powerful by it's rarity. Now mages are more meaningful and valuable, particularly muters. I do not see this as a bad thing.

Give it a chance and see. You're a good player, and even with the "nerfs" I'm pretty sure you'll do alright.

>>Well then if things are more level across the board, why bitch? THings are more fair now. Why not just say "Yay for balance" and leave it be?

Because things aren't more fair for him, they are more fair for everyone else. Anybody at the top of the prepping food chain has been brought closer to the middle. It's hard not to marginalize his posts because of their tone, but that's a poor excuse to ignore the fact that a certain class of players are hurt by this change.

The reason being, I have to question why I want to play a game that did something knowing full well it would infuriate players like me, and yet still did it anyway. How much of a hurry are you in to go over to a guy's house, knowing you are vegetarian, and though he knows this, he still cooks steak every night? You'd have to like his placemats and conversation a hell of a lot to start going there every night for dinner.

>The reason being, I have to question why I want to play a
>game that did something knowing full well it would infuriate
>players like me, and yet still did it anyway.

There isn't any change to the game that isn't going to benefit some characters or players more than others. There just isn't.

Stagnation, to me, is a bigger enemy to CF than that fallout could ever be. I think CF will be a better game for you in a year if a bunch of changes/additions are made, even if some of them are things you might not personally like.

Look at this way: say you were a die-hard Master/mage player at the time of the revamp that gave warriors weapon specialization. Even though this makes a class you will never play stronger and does nothing to make you personally stronger, it *still* makes for a better game for you. It gives you new and interesting opponents. It challenges you to beat your enemies in new ways.

If CF was the same now as the first time I logged on nearly 12 years ago, I assure you I wouldn't still be playing now. It wasn't a bad game, but the same thing gets boring eventually.

>Because things aren't more fair for him, they are more fair
>for everyone else. Anybody at the top of the prepping food
>chain has been brought closer to the middle. It's hard not to
>marginalize his posts because of their tone, but that's a poor
>excuse to ignore the fact that a certain class of players are
>hurt by this change.

Yes but those players are far far fewer than the players who were being hurt by the way things were before. Haste having been one of the preps I knew more locations for, this change hurts my non-mage characters too. But you know what? I'll adapt, and I still think it's a good change.

I'm sure you're unhappy that you (and others) who spent a long time mapping out and hoarding haste preps can't use them to mow down players who can't devote huge amounts of time to them. But this game has never been about who can invest more time to 'win'. It's been about skill.

Thankfully, we're an adaptive community. There are also other ways to prep out there, and we have more time for exploration of such places. The smarter people in it have already started socialising more with transmuters/healers. It is the way of the game that powers and strengths are altered constantly. This is no different to any other class change in terms of adapting.

Enjoy.

Yhorian.

But this game has never been about who can invest more time to 'win'. It's been about skill.


I think there is a certain skill involved for someone to be able to obtain haste preps. If that person plays 6 hours a day and is doing the work to get haste preps, they should have an advantage over the three guys that log in once a week and do a little hack and slash. If someone is going to do the grunt work that another person isnt prepared to do, you cant really whine about them out-prepping you.

Repeat solution: Make them as easy to find as Ghonorhea during a mexican spring break in Cancun.

Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.

If that person plays 6 hours a day and is doing the work to get haste preps, they should have an advantage over the three guys that log in once a week and do a little hack and slash.

The counterargument is that Person A still has any number of other advantages over those three once-a-week guys. They probably have better equipment, a better idea of who is/isn't tough in their range, a better shot at quest rewards and leader powers, and any of the hundreds of possible prep options they had previously, minus what was often the backbreaker, Haste.

Repeat solution: Make them as easy to find as Ghonorhea during a mexican spring break in Cancun.

Why? At that point, once you've removed skill/scarcity from the equation, Haste would really be useless in PK, because everything would cancel out. (Assuming class parity. Actually what it would do is upgrade every class with Dodge, since they get more out of it.)

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

**Why? At that point, once you've removed skill/scarcity from the equation, Haste would really be useless in PK, because everything would cancel out. (Assuming class parity. Actually what it would do is upgrade every class with Dodge, since they get more out of it.)**


I Wasnt thinking in those terms but it makes more sense. I am still enamored with the fight fights I used to have when I started CF. Master with transform and ABS. vs a Bad ass villager. They just seemed so drawn out and long. There was no three round kills.

I could have a foggy recollection but I really did enjoy the longer fights when we seemed to do less damage and both sides were pretty equal.

Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.

"The counterargument is that Person A still has any number of other advantages over those three once-a-week guys. "

Are you kidding me? I've lost advantages I had before, and now don't. What advantages does my gimped prepper have now over a 3v1. WHAT ADVANTAGES DO I HAVE THAT AREN'T NEGATED BY A GANG? Before I had a chance, since I had spent my time alone gathering/finding haste, now since it's been nerfed, my chances to die to them just shot up, and their chances to die to me have gone down, while their chance to kill me has gone up.

"They probably have better equipment, a better idea of who is/isn't tough in their range, a better shot at quest rewards and leader powers, and any of the hundreds of possible prep options they had previously, minus what was often the backbreaker, Haste."

To counter your counterargument - When I die to the gank, since haste was nerfed and I tried to quaff my recall potion and it failed, I lost my suit of better equipment, I know that a 3v1 gang is tough, though I might get a quest skill (this has nothing to do with any of these changes btw), and my dr made my healing less effective. So remind me how does Joe Underdog benefit from these changes? His enemies have less preps too? WTF how do they need them when there is three of them and one of me?

What no gets that I am trying to convey is that preps gave people a chance when the odds were bad. Without that chance, those odds mean a hell of a lot more chance to die. Say hello to even more ridiculous pendulum swings.

I guess we'll agree to disagree on the impact, then. Sounds like a lot of other people are happy with the change, and I think it's a good direction to go in.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Good luck with everything in life.

>Are you kidding me? I've lost advantages I had before, and now
>don't. What advantages does my gimped prepper have now over a
>3v1. WHAT ADVANTAGES DO I HAVE THAT AREN'T NEGATED BY A GANG?

Got news for you: You never had any.

I know in your world, it's only single guys out to fight the horde that have preps, and the horde never does. That's not reflected by reality, not even our gameful faux-reality. It's just not.

Preps do more than than even things out.

For ####s and giggles when I was feeling boardline Shamanman* with one warrior character, with only haste and stoneskin I jumped a group of three (who weren't ranking, but didn't expect me to attack) and won. It wasn't that I was tactically superior or had better gear, it was my ability to utilize a powerful prep and completely tip the odds in my favor.

Playing melee classes has become more about melee and less about having potions, pills, Greeting & Enigma. I think this could potentially do more for tactical combat than any change I've seen to date.

>Why? At that point, once you've removed skill/scarcity from
>the equation, Haste would really be useless in PK,
>because everything would cancel out. (Assuming class parity.
>Actually what it would do is upgrade every class with
>Dodge, since they get more out of it.)

Haste also gives tactical posibilities.
It can be dispelled, wasted, stolen, etc.
A more skilled player with haste has more advantages over a hasted noob
( Assuming they both know where to get that haste potion )
than a non-hasted skilled player over a non-hasted noob.

"But this game has never been about who can invest more time to 'win'. It's been about skill."

You are ridiculously delusional. The best players here are the ones who have great tactics AND have invested time learning the mud/classes/areas/skills/spells.

"The smarter people in it have already started socialising more with transmuters/healers."

WTF. I don't know if you are trying to say you are smart OOC for making IC allies, or insulting me for being stupid by somehow alleging I haven't. All you are saying is "If you got an IC pal, you have a better chance" Well wtf does that do to the idiot with no IC allies at the moment? Guess what, hes at even more of a disadvantage against a two-man, cross-cabal, dios-vip gank, because his haste isn't as good, his DR is nerfed, and he now heals like an elf with 3 con left. All this change does is ensure ganks are gonna be the order of the day. Ganking just got easier and defending ganks just got harder.

Relating to the defending agaisnt bad odds. If all chars are defending and dodging on par, there wont be those valliant efforts by some Grottimesh like warrior taking on four marans....

I personally like seeing the odd powerhouse run amok. Cadbru, Zorzaul, duergar prep-whore warriors, long list of chars that stand out. They add spice to the game. Their use of rare or exotic preps/items makes it a challenge for most classes to compete agaisnt them.

I think the problem with the way things were is the declining player base and the casual players being unable to compete.

I think a better solution to nerfing things....is to just make them more common. Id rather see a LONG ass drawn out fight where both sides are fully prepped and able to use some real skill and technique. Give out haste quest skills/spells to people.

WIth the declining player base fights sometimes are hard to find. We all know the lulls in gameplay when one side has 14 people logged on. Its going to make exploration and stuff harder too.

Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.

No one dies. If you're fully prepped, you aren't going to die to one other person. Personally, if I'm winning and the other person gets away because I can't do enough damage fast enough or whatever, it just feels like a waste of time. The smart will still be able to defend against multiple raiders. You've still got protections, and now your inners will be more useful (the raiders are less likely to be hasted) so you get to throw down skill vs skill. There will still be powerhouses, but being a prep-whore will not guarantee that status. You'll have to be more skilled than your opponents in the absence of preps that would have allowed you to steamroll them.

"I think the problem with the way things were is the declining player base and the casual players being unable to compete"

I understand this to a degree. I want(ed?) CF to become a more populated place, like you I hate fighting the same guy who I see every login, with no changes. I just don't agree that this change is going to bring that increase in new players or decline in losing old players that it was intended to.

I used to perfect defenses and weapons at a low level. (In certain circumstances I still do). When the practice changes went in I was pissed. What used to take me 10 hours a character now would take 20+. It gave me an edge I wanted. I also played 4-8 hours a day, so 10 hours wasn't a big deal. Now, if all I do after work is CF, I've got 4 hours a day. Spending 20+ hours to perfect defenses and weapons isn't worth it anymore.

My current character was the only character I've ever had that actually *uses* preps. At first, it was just one, and I thought that was a huge boon... then I found another, and it made me steamroll the unprepped, but I could still get outprepped. Then I found the third and all of a sudden, only the uber-preppred were a problem. It didn't neccessarily mean I was deadly, but some people basically wouldn't fight me (they couldn't win) and others could still beat me down. Here's the problem though. Of my 4 hours, I spent at least 1 gathering those preps. So one fourth of my time online was spent gathering preps. Thats a lot more than perfecting my defenses ever was per character. And those preps were *easy* to get. It was just a matter of running all over. If my current character was a potion type, I would have spent at least another hour per night prep gathering. 50% of my time prep gathering. That isn't fun. Forget about the time sync of exploring in the first place. So I'm one of the hard-workers. I also haven't been playing, mostly because I steamrolled the newbs, and still couldn't stand toe to toe with the uber-prepped fighting classes. I should be bitching just like you, I'm one of the "hard workers" who can prep for every fight like lightmage, and basically now all that work is gone.

Here's the thing though. I couldn't be happier. Instead of wasting an hour a night gathering preps, I can spend 10 minutes (or less) and still be able to be prepped for the fights I actually need it (raids, vs multiple foes) instead of needing it for every fight where I know the opponent isn't a total newb (or doesn't like prepping).

I bitched loud and hard about the practicing changes. Now I just use the weapons while I rank, and tank to up my defenses. I don't have everything perfected by rank 20, but #### if it isn't a whole lot more fun. So I'm sure I'll love this. So much wasted time gone. So much "CF is work" gone. Hell I might even start playing my character again. I might even have to log in to make sure they don't auto.

THANK YOU NEP AND ALL THE IMM STAFF!!!

Sometimes listening to your players is a good thing. CF just went from being the age of preps, to being like the "golden age". Just grab whatever set you need, and test your *skill* against the masses, not your willingness (or ability) to waste countless hours gathering preps.

#### #### Yea.

Tac

(still wants defenses and weapons perfected by level 20)

Prepping sucks.

You guys are all missing the boat though. Sneaky Nepenthe laid out the Haste bomb...but he was really trying to divert attention from the Mother-lode....THE HEALING CHANGES.

No more gulping down 40 speckled pills like they were crack and running back in a tick later. Oh the joy of pumping out 10,000 gold a minute at a healer and dominating anyone in the game. Haste is good and fine...but the devil has done it again. Always read the small print when Nepenthe is involved.

The devil.

Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.

Maybe now I can play an outlander again since recalling to a healer and heal healing won't be something I'll miss again.

Honestly, NPC healers having unlimited mana, and people being able to recall and heal heal has always been ####. No one likes resting up, but if I just kicked your ass, I should at least get a little respite while you heal up, and not just a tick at the healer you recalled to.

The fact that having speckled pills/an NPC healer was more effecient than healing sleep is so far out of whack... Well you get the idea.

' The fact that having speckled pills/an NPC healer was more effecient than healing sleep is so far out of whack... '

Absolutely.

To get beaten down by a berserker while in ABS...walk down the east road, popping pills, and eventually have him running for cover.

Its like playing DOOM in godmode.

Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.

Or if you are fighting villagers that call blood thirst alot.

Guess what one of the more powerful effects of Bloodthirst is? Hint: Announcements board.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

n/t

Hope is the worst of evils, for it prolongs the torment of man.

Now sems a good advantage they got. Hope the tweak on resistance was enough to be noted.

Just my cents.

It's called a muter.

Aside from that, haste isn't being removed from the game, the preps not being removed are no longer drawback free. Thats not so bad. Thirst has some HUGE drawbacks. Why should countering it be drawback free?

my concern is that this will generate more yagharek/ahtaturn/rowan/sylus gangs, which consisted of like one skilled player(I found ahtaturn quite skilled with muters) and three friends who bashed and healed, alot of the late changes has leaned towards this. I hope I am wrong, I will be very happy if I am wrong, but I'm not sure I am wrong.

Ooh, by the way I read something about damreduction taking away your ability to regen/use healers, will this mean that village defenders will have to wait for resistance to fall to get full use of those bandages?

Nope, because it's an ability of their class/cabal/etc... just as invoker shield don't slow down invokers, etc.